I agree with the PP, that HERE the real issues have been addressed, but that is rare in mainstream society, if you don't hang around anyone who can talk about what PETA should be, you won't learn from this ad. This group far from represents the conversations happening IRL.
Again, I think there are more effective ways to shock and disturb, while sticking to the issue, and actually using their ads to educate about cruelty to animals, instead of hoping that they spark conversations where people who care will stand up and actually say what needs to be said.
As far as my statement before about not being creative enough to come up with ad campaigns myself- I still think (even w/o much creativity) that I am allowed an opinion on someone else's work. I don't think *I* personally have to be able to do better, to say that what they are doing is not very effective. We each have areas where we excell and where we focus our efforts at the wrongs we see in the world, each person has to do what they are most driven for, and chances are, you cannot fully participate in every matter that means a great deal to you (unless you don't care about much). I choose to focus my activism in other very important areas, while others don't have a chance to do a whole lot to say feed the hungry, but they do focus on animal rights, I think we all do what is most important to us, and what we feel most called to work for. Hopefully it all balances out, and we at least are able to educate others on the issues, and have them participate in some small way.
Another random thought aimed at an above poster- that she had "already made up her mind", does that make talking to her a lost cause, is PETA only aiming at people who have no opinions? I really am curious as to who their intended audience is.
I have no problem with people eating animals, I have many a loved one who does. I want to refer to an "earlier time" way back in the pioneer days... ie "Little House in the Big Woods" my DD finished the series a while ago. She would read some of it to me, and I do recall my mother reading them to me when I was 6 or 7 years old. They ate meat, drank milk had cheese and butter... the difference was the care and TREATMENT of the animals. And Pa hunted but he didn't go nuts and kill everything in site.
My dh did a research paper for college resently on how well adapted the human body is for the American "meat" diet... it isn't. We aren't made to eat as much meat as we do. Sure some meat, but not 3 times a day or more with every meal and snack. Our GI tract is made for the slow digestion of plant matter. We are part of the primate family, I know that apes eat meat, but it isn't their mainstay. It use to be "back in the day" that meat was something special you ate maybe once a week, because your chickens where to special to eat EVERYDAY. And you may have had your calf killed in the fall for the winters meat or hunted a few deer or a bear or wild pig or whatever, but it wasn't 3 times a day.
I do care how animals are treated. There is NO REASON that they should suffer in anyway. They are alive. Do I care more about animals then people? no. (OK well some animals I care a heck of a lot more about then some people I know!:LOL )
I read many wonderful books on buddhism, and it was a real eye opener. Showing loving kindness TO ALL living things, even if you might eat it, is SO IMPORTANT!
If anyone doesn't like PETA, ok. NO big deal there are many groups out there that are very active in the animal wellfare area, that are much more easy to digest (lol). A couple people have listed them before.
Like I said before, no one here has said they think that animals should be tortured prior to consumtion. And if PETA aint your cup of tea, then look into another group. Yeah, most groups wish people would not eat animals, but alot are more directly concerned with the "care and treatment" of the animals, which I think we all should be.
NOTHING, no person, no animals NOTHING should spend its life suffering. PERIOD! Flat out that is the truth. And if we continue to allow it, even if we are not directly respondsible we are just as bad as the people who do it. If you want to eat meat, go ahead, but buy it resondsibly. Look into where it is coming from, along with your milk and cheese and eggs. Find out if the animals are taken care of, humanely put down. That downed animals are left to be trampled by the other scared animals, or pulled out by their broken legs and left to die in a heep of other animals.
And also do "we" need to eat as much meat as we do? It takes a heck of a lot of natural resorces to feed a cow. Could that land be put to better use? To grow food for the tens of millions of people who are starving? Or what about the people in other countries who farm up their land to feed our insatsible need for meat and dairy?
OK that was off topic. I will get off the soap box.
|Originally posted by mamabeard
fair enough, but you've already made up your mind, haven't you?
That's just it. I have made up my mind, and it's on the other side of the fence. Doesn't that mean that I'm the intended audience? Or is PETA only aimed at getting the attention of people who already agree with them? If they are, that's just one more example of how their advertising is ineffective. What's the point of preaching to the choir? They've already made up their minds, too.
I just wanted to say that I think there are much better targets for all our energies -- take any of the multinational corporations that are actively degrading people and animals and the environment the world over - their "tactics" are lethal not only offensive.
A single advocacy group on the left that pushes buttons..well.
Over and out.
|Originally posted by Erin Pavlina
Let me ask those of you who eat meat a question...
If you buy meat from a grocery store and the dead animal you bought was tortured before it went to market, do you feel at all responsible for its suffering? Or do you feel that since you are not the one who tortured the animal that you're in no way responsible for its suffering?
Unless i've skimmed too fast, i haven't seen any meat-eaters answer this quesiton....
I eat meat.
When I learned about what happens in commercial meat processing plants I quit eating meat for a time. But then I started buying free range and organic meat. However, my Dh and I were unemployed for 6 months and could barely afford anything. When I did buy conventional meat, I felt so horrible that I could barely cook it. I know a lot of people have suggestions for things to eat while you are broke, but we did the best we could. While preparing the meat, I thought about the animal (or animals) that sacrificed their lives ( by force) so that my family could eat. Before eating it I say a prayer and thank the animal for their sacrifice. So, in short, yes I feel responsible for the animal suffering. And since becomming aware I do my best to only buy meat, eggs, milk, and cheese (and everything) from kind companies. But I know in my heart that there are many more evils at play than my family eating meat 2 - 3 times a week. So I take some responsibility, but not all of it.
However, I think Burritomama has a really good point. There are much more important targets we could be using our energy for. PETA may annoy some of you, but atleast they are doing something. And because of that billboard, this conversation started and I have learned a lot of things I didn't know before. Some may not beleive that was the intention of PETA and most mainstream people would not get anything out of their add, but in this case, it is the result.
|Originally posted by Mona
Unless i've skimmed too fast, i haven't seen any meat-eaters answer this quesiton....
I sort of answered it before it was asked by explaining that I only buy organic free-range animals that I believe have been treated humanely. Also, I should mention that my meat consumption for an entire week consists of about one chicken.
Some one said that we are "choosing" to think about PETA's tactics instead of thinking about the way animals are treated. We do not look at a billboard and then say, "okay, I am now going to choose to think about PETA's tactics instead of about the way animals are treated." Billboards have the effect of eliciting a specific response. This particular billboard simply does not call animal suffering to mind. It is designed for shock value, sexual in nature, and uses a phrase that has two meanings: neither of which has anything to do with animal suffering. One is sexual, and one is something you say to a small child if you want to upset him. It is the fault of the ad's designer that the ad causes us to think about PETA's tactics. We can't help the fact that that is the reaction that the ad creates.
Yes, there are other organizations worthy of criticism, and we do criticize them. That doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize this particular tactic, especially since many of us care about the cause of animal suffering and hate to see an organization defeat its own purpose when it could be doing some real good.
I eat meat also and I think I answered that question when I stated that I only eat organic/free range meat or wild game.
yes, for those of you who eat organic/free range, i understand.
but what about for the remaining 90% of the population who eats factory farmed meat?
I eat meat occasionally. I wish I could go without it, but I crave it desperately sometimes. It's got nothing to do with the treatment of animals, either; more to do with the fact that I read Fast Food Nation and it disgusted me. At any rate, no, I don't feel guilty that I can't afford free range/organic meat, even for the little I do consume (and that probably currently adds up to 1/2 a chicken/month). I also wear leather shoes, carry a leather wallet, etc. I do not believe that animals should be tortured, but I am totally not sorry that I like my Skechers.
Why? Because I think that human life is more important. If I had the money, the time, and the energy to devote to a cause, I'd want to do something for the unwanted, unloved, un-cared-for children of the world. Heck, I'll start with my own town. Until every child in this country has a safe place to sleep at night, I'm not gonna be terribly concerned about the living conditions of animals. I cannot bring myself to be as upset about animal life as I get when I hear about the things people do to children. They're human beings who are treated worse than many animals in the world, and I think that they're more important than the animals. Perhaps it's arrogance, but I am a human being and I relate more strongly to human beings than to animals.
I could go on and on about this, but I won't because it will only get more offensive to animal rights people as I do. I'm going to stop now. :LOL
I said this on another thread...
It doesn't lessen or devalue a humans life at all, to recognize that animals suffer, and that they don't need to suffer.
Just as you care for the earth, you should also care for all the living things on the earth. I am totally in support of human rights, I do what ever I can to support human rights groups all over the world. BUT that doesn't mean I can't also care for and about the treatment of animals. It isn't one or the other.
I buy organic foods for my family... why? It is better for us to eat chemical free, BUT it is better for all living things on the earth also. People and animals. Is it more costly. YES, but I shop around and honestly, I
shopping at our local Co-op! It smells great it is friendly and I am supporting local organic farmers and a local store, not some huge chain.
It is all in how you look at it. I look at ALL life from the ants by my mailbox to the people suffering in Africa as important and of enormous value. ALL LIFE! From trees, to bugs, to cows, to people all life is important and worthy of respect and care.
Do I look at an ant as more important then my child, NO. But I don't go out of my way to kill them either. We have a wonderful "ant Farm" right by our mailbox that the kids and I visit everryday and watch in wonder as the ants go about their ant business. It is so amazing! I wouldn't in 100 years go out of my way to kill them. Why? Because they are less then me? Because they can't talk "people" talk? NO!
Let me say it right out loud... ALL LIFE IS IMPORTANT! Flat out! In the whole scheme of things, all life matters, in the environment and "circl of life", the web of life... those ants by my mailbox, feed the lizards, who feed the roadrunners who feed the hawks, who are a beauty and wonder that I am privaliged to see!
From the lowliest plankton to the awesome whale to people to dogs, to wolves, to cows, to Paloverde bettles, to ants, to spiders, to inch worms, we all have a place and deserve for it to be respected, and deserve to BE RESPECTED and treated with loving kindness.
I think that is what is missing. The loving kindness.
There is nothing wrong with caring about everything, but do you care about everything equally? You don't go out of your way to step on ants, but do you go out of your way to NOT step on ants? How upset do you get if you accidentally step on one?
No one is saying that you shouldn't care about other life forms. Some people are simply saying that they prioritize. They don't spend as much time/effort/energy worrying about insects as they do worrying about other animals, and they don't spend as much time/effort/energy worrying about other animals as they do about humans.
Someone can acknowledge that animals suffer needlessly without making it their top issue.
It is true that you don't have to choose between caring about humans and caring about other animals, but it is also true that you can care MORE about humans than you do about other animals.
No I don't worry about whether or not I have stepped on an ant, but I know for a fact that loads of people go out of their way TO step on them, and teach their kids to step on them. I know it seems silly, but to me it is just disrespectful. Not on the level as say, the disrespect our counrty (USA) is treating the suffering in Africa (with the 11 million AIDS orphins), but disrespect none the less. To go out of your way to KILL for no other reason then to kill. Is not only wrong, but just a little wacky to me. I have said before that I have many loved ones who eat meat, yet I still love them. I try to gentlely educate them that if they are going to eat meat, then try free-range, and organically fed, etc.
Last night we watched a show on PBS about Alaskan natives hunting seals. It was amazing, the father/son team that the show was about where so amazingly intune with nature, and that they took only what they needed, and all the animals that they hunted lived a wild free life, prior to being hunted. I see no problem with that.
And actually I do spend a greater amount of my "animal" thinking time, thinking about bugs, because we have a garden, we want the good bugs to be there and the "bad" bug... which my dd loves cuz they are caterpillars, are kept out. Our usual method is to send my dd out to hunt for them and then she moves them to some place else in the yard. Either that or the birds get them.
What I am having a problem with is the fact that lots of people are giving the lip servous, yet not "doing" anything about it. Or continuing to bring up, how they choose people over animals, or that carrots are alive (which I know they are... we are growing them!), or that they support animals being treated better yet don't want to help out in any simple way... like buying free-range, organiclly fed animals (I know some are, they have said so
I actaully do spend more of my time concerned with people matters/problems, but it doesn't lessen my love and caring for animals.
I think as humans we think selfishly, like all animals do, about keeping our species alive. I mean the fact that other animals mate to keep things going, and fend off attacers and such , just proves that they think of themselves first also. WE on the other had have the ability to think of others also, not just ourselves. To realize what is right for the "animal" kingdom, isn't really right for people. You can't have closed eyes to the wellfare of animals, just because you are a person, and you think of people first. Does it leave no room for others?
And I actually belive that thinking about the welfare of the whole earth is actaully primarly the thinking of people... I mean if we tread lightly, and treat all things well, there will actually be an earth left for our kids, and grandkids, etc.
i'm really tired and naking (as usual), but in trying to stay on topic, it seems to me we need to discern the intention behind peta's work. i don't think it is self-congratulations or necessarily even admiration, i think it is an effort to gradually disuade people from perpetuating animal cruelty (whether directly or indirectly).
i think this thread has proven that that is what's happening. no one has said "well, gee, peta's advertisements are so lame that i'm now going to seek out new ways to tortue animals!" in fact, more people are aware, and many are probably going to cut back on, if not quit, certain habits that are causing suffering to animals.
so, i think it is working.
can anyone see what i'm saying? (cuz i keep saying it but i think i'm talking into my armpit or something).
No, no one looks at the ad and is inspired to torture animals (I guess what you're saying is the sign could be worse). However, I think the general consensus is that if PETA designed a better sign, they could inspire more people to do something to stop cruelty toward animals, or to support PETA. A lot of people do look at the sign and say, "okay, I'm going to stop giving PETA money," and that obviously hurts rather than helps PETA.
|Originally posted by Ms.Doula
I second that, but that is what we have been saying all along. I guess neither side of this feels "heard".
I feel that even thought this thread has strayed a lot from the OP, I think it actually grew like a real conversation would have, had this all happen IRL. Does that make since? I mean someone brings something up that is bugging them, a bunch of people talk about it, give their views and slowly the conversation changes, and grows. Just because it has strayed from the origanal topic... but not really, it has just been people giving their views and their feelings and reasons behind the views.
I personally have really enjoyed this topic, and I know it will slowly die out and people will stop posting, but honestly I don't get a chance to often to talk about how I feel about this with intellegant people. It has been great to get others views and also get affermation of my own views, so I don't feel all alone!
I don't think we will all agree 100% with each other, but it is so nice to see that this can be talked about.
I know I have probably frusterated people, and I have been frusterated, but I also feel I got to see "into" the minds of some people on this topic. It has been really awesome!
So I think, that maybe this topic isn't one where you can just stay to the OP, it is something that needs to grow and be discussed.
I personally like the PETA ads and stuff on their website.... I watched their video and end up going vegan because of it.... that may not be the majority on this board but oh well...
PETA has people who like the ads and some who dont...and they will never be able to satisfy everyone....
Their blunt tactics are what gets through to people this day in age..our society has been so desensitized and are sooo ignorant to whats going on its absurd... andd yes some people do get offended... but thats life.... we need to stop sugar coating whats really goin on in the world and ignoring the atrocities that exist.... if PETA didnt go overboard as you say we wouldnt be having this discussion and they would be pretty much like the farm sanctuarys that people hardly even know about...whether or not you agree with there tactics is a matter of opinion...
Yes there are tons more atrocities out there right now... homeless children, aids crisis in 3rd world countries, etc.... but instead of always talkin bout those things...do somethin to help...help a foster child, foster a 3rd world country kid, donate time to help kids in crisis.... i help the animals by being vegan... i am also perfectly able to have children but intend on adopting some later on in my life...etc etc etc...
What affects these animals also affect you.... these animals are given hormones, excessive antibiotics, etc... there is multiple studies now linking the hormones injected into these cows directly affect human health causing conditions as poorer immunity, Antibiotic resistance, as well as the alarming fact that children are going thru puberty at ages 7-8 and the youngest recorded pregnancy so far has been of a child who was 7 yrs old.... which is absurd..and in order for soy to feminize your son, and all the other bad things that are said it first off has to be alot more soy than you could probably ingest anyways.... but im going off topic.... so im gonna stop rambling..and probably pissed someone off... or made no sense at all cuz im exhausted and feelin bedtime coming....
Ditto to all of the above, except we're not vegan.