Mothering Forum banner

pro life feminist?

8K views 192 replies 39 participants last post by  ameliabedelia 
#1 ·
Is it possible to be a feminist and pro life at the same time? A friend of mine labeled me as a feminist one day, but I feel like I'm really disqualified since I don't believe in abortion

Please no flames. I don't judge people who are pro choice--I just don't personally feel like abortion is a good idea, with few exceptions.

peace, Beth
 
#152 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by ekblad7
...Hop on over to Pregnancy and Birth Loss and see what those mamas have to say about their babies that didn't make it past 12 weeks. I assure you they're not calling them embryos or tissue. They are mourning the loss of their babies. Or how about the want to be mamas that would give anything to adopt these babies that some are so willing to kill? ....
Why would there be a need to "hop on over" to anywhere? I've suffered through several miscarriages, one in the middle of my second trimester and the rest before 12 weeks. Yes, I grieved (& still grieve) each of those babies, because that's what they were to me. Each of those pregnancies profoundly effected who I am as a person.

In the end, I was lucky enough to concieve and carry one child to term and so I have my wonderful 11 year old son. But I've not been able to concieve since then. I would love to have another baby or adopt.

However, and this is so important, I don't think any woman should have to suffer through the physical hardship of pregnancy and emotional hardship of reliquenishing their child just so that I can get what I want.

In fact, infertility has made me more adamently pro-choice. I know what it's like to experience a loss of control over your reproductive life. I know what's it's like to get the wrong answer on the pregnancy test. I know what it's like to feel so betrayed by your own body and biology. I understand that feeling deep in my bones.

In my perfect world, there would be no abortion because women who didn't want to concieve wouldn't and the rest of us would be abundently blessed with pregnancies. But I don't live there. In this world, right now, at this time, I have to be pro-choice.
 
#155 ·
Quote:
riginally posted by anothermama
I said it!!

but how do you expect me to take YOU seriously when you can't actually argue the point in context with anything but insults??

[/B]
Yes, I'm well aware that you were the one that originally posted it.

As for the rest of your statement above, right back at ya.
 
#157 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Arduinna
Yes, I'm well aware that you were the one that originally posted it.

As for the rest of your statement above, right back at ya.
I have addressed points...I've quoted others in context....I've tried to understand their message....

I'm not sure about that "back atcha"....doesn't make sense.

This *seems* to be turning into a gang bang attack and I really don't want to see that so please, PM me if you really want to continue with what a horrible person I am....or if you actually want to talk too.
 
#158 ·
um, I never said you were a horrible person. But honestly your claim that prochoicers here aren't capable of having a discussion and are only lobbing insults just doesn't have a leg to stand on. And considering the many posts made by prolifers here calling people baby killers ect seems to supprt my right back at ya.

Just as you don't seem to take our arguments as sound, I feel the same way about yours.

And really I thought this thread was about how people can be feminists and pro life. Since you don't claim to be a feminist, I'm not sure how your able to make a credible argument here.
 
#159 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Arduinna
um, I never said you were a horrible person. But honestly your claim that prochoicers here aren't capable of having a discussion and are only lobbing insults just doesn't have a leg to stand on. And considering the many posts made by prolifers here calling people baby killers ect seems to supprt my right back at ya.

Just as you don't seem to take our arguments as sound, I feel the same way about yours.

And really I thought this thread was about how people can be feminists and pro life. Since you don't claim to be a feminist, I'm not sure how your able to make a credible argument here.
*sigh*

Ya didn't prove anything there.

Maybe prolifers made certain choices in their words....I didn't say anything about baby killers. Don't attibute their statements or attitudes to me.

You didn't address any of my arguments anyways so I supposed it doesn't matter.

And I guess I've been put in my place now haven't I. I don't consider myself a feminist so I'll go sit in my little corner and be quiet so the pro choicers can continue with the mutual admiration society meeting that was going on....I'm sorry I interupted.

eta: Wow! I just realized the answer to the original post has been found!!

A resounding NO! You CANNOT be pro life and a feminist because "true" feminists would never allow it. It doesn't fit the agenda.

Hrm.....well, at least that got cleared up..........
 
#160 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by anothermama
Honey...it seems like YOU are the one who can't handle seeing the nuances in other peoples statements.

.

I can handle them and have respectfully responded. I did not say I was smarter or I am not going to deal with someone because of thier views. That was said to me. It seems that insults are more important here than the topic of pro-life and feminism.

Pugmagmama-I must concur-you rock!
 
#162 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by anothermama
[BYou didn't address any of my arguments anyways so I supposed it doesn't matter.

[/B]
What arguments, I haven't seen any just rhetoric and wishful thinking?? like the completely unfounded idea that it doesn't matter if abortion is legal because it will still be performed anyway??

honestly, I haven't seen any logic in most of what has been posted.
 
#165 ·
Call it what you like, tissue, embryo, whatever. The fact is that it's a baby. I'm sorry for your losses, pugmadmama, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. However, I know when life begins. There isn't much more to say. It doesn't empower women to allow them to be murders and get away with it. Someday the truth will come out but not in this culture of death.

May the peace and love of God be with you all.
 
#168 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by anothermama
[BAnd I guess I've been put in my place now haven't I. I don't consider myself a feminist so I'll go sit in my little corner and be quiet so the pro choicers can continue with the mutual admiration society meeting that was going on....I'm sorry I interupted.

eta: Wow! I just realized the answer to the original post has been found!!

A resounding NO! You CANNOT be pro life and a feminist because "true" feminists would never allow it. It doesn't fit the agenda.

Hrm.....well, at least that got cleared up.......... [/B]
Considering how many times you've posted about how your not a feminist and how much you despise feminists and feminism I'm not sure what your upset about?? Surely you aren't upset that some may agree with you that you aren't a feminist??

Post all you want it's an open board, it looks like your looking for the mutual admiration from from those that hate feminists as much as you do. Just don't expect it from us that are feminists.
 
#169 ·
I think that anothermama's points got lost because this has turned into an extremely long thread.
She said she is NOT a feminist IF feminism means that you have to stick to a set list of guidelines that does not allow each individual woman to decide exactly what feminism means *to her*. At least, that's the gist I got from all this. Again, some people believe that a true feminist rises *above* this thinking and does not believe that abortions on demand is the best thing for women and society, in general. I think women can define themselves any way they darn well please.... labels can be ugly things when they interfere with one's ability to think for themselves and express their views openly and honestly. I have a right to call myself a feminist even if I disagree with it's history and a lot of what it's about today....... it means totally different things to different people, and as *feminists*, we have to respect that.
 
#170 ·
anothermama -
I think YOU ROCK mama


now get outta here and quit
you're gonna get a headache

leighanne, card carrying member of the prolife mutual admiration society
 
#172 ·
Phew! What a loooong thread to get through.

It's sad we can't seem to talk about this without getting upset, heated or resort to calling names. Abortion, as well all know, often brings out the fire in people!

Can you be a feminist and be pro-life? Sure! Everyone defines feminism in a different way. There are conservative feminists and liberal feminists and everything in between.

I am pro-choice but pro-life for myself. I am a feminist. I have a good friend who is a feminist and pro-life. We both wish that there were no need for abortions but like pugmadmama said, I see the need for them for some people. BTW pugmadmama, thank you for sharing your stoory. You are an amazing woman!

What I question the most is what we lose as feminists if abortion were made illegal. What solutions would we come up with? Would the world be a better place for us as women? Seriously? If so how? When it comes to abortion (for some people) you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. You don't really get full support with whatever decision you make and you could be left with regrets with whichever choice you end up making. It foesn't seem right, either way. As a feminist it concerns me that it always falls on the woman. So as feminists, whether pro-choice or pro-life, how could we work together to eliminate this shame, regret, whatever that seems to go hand-in-hand with unwanted pregnancy and abortion.

And what would happen with women who didn't take care of themselves when forced to go through with a pregnancy. Would we then force them to eat, to not drink, to not smoke or do drugs or endanger themselves? Forcing them to take care of themselves and the baby? What would we do then? I struggle with that idea, as a feminist and human being. Sure... maybe they shouldn't have had sex. They shouldn't have gotten pregnant. But they did. So what is more empowering for them? For some it would be choosing to carry the baby to term. Others don't believe that. Who are we to decide for them? Can a feminist force someone to do something they don't want to do? Do we have that right? Not if we really define ourselves as a feminist.

Lots of questions, no easy answers.
 
#174 ·
I am a feminist, and unashamedly pro choice.

I believe in abortion on demand and without apology.

I have been pg twice, both unplanned. The first pg (during my first marriage) ended in a miscarriage 2 days before my scheduled abortion. I am grateful every day that that pregnancy ended.

Fast forward 5 years. An unplanned pregnancy with my dh (we weren't married yet). I decided to stay pg. It has a very very hard pregnancy, and labor and delivery. My wanting that pregnancy was the only thing that helped me keep my sanity. I would never force what I went thorugh on anyone.

I believe that one cannot be pro life and feminist. Those women who are personally pro life but politically pro choice are more rightly called pro choice.

A woman who is really wants to terminate a pregnancy and is desparate will often mutalate herself in the process if she has no safe access to abortion. what is feminist about wanting to send women back to the stone age?
 
#176 ·
Ok, well, I know this thread was buried a bit, but I had been wanting to pipe in, and didn't get a chance until now(newborn here). I will admit that I have not read all the responses, and don't wish to debate abortion (again
: ), but thought I would stick to answering the OP


At my high school graduation during the awards part of the ceremony, one of the awards was called "The Award For Feminism", as they described the award, I joked with the kid next to me about who I thought would get it, there was one girl in my class who was today's version of feminist. Imagine my shock when my name was read
I did not know what to think about that, b/c to me feminist=pro-choice, which simply put- I am not (at least not on the issue of abortion
). I talked to the woman who gave the award in her mothers name, and she explained that it was my way of always standing up for myself, and for anyone else who needed someone to stand up for them, that made me a feminist in her eyes, she knew I was pro-life, she was pro-choice, she chose me anyway


OK, now the point I really wanted to make
(and sorry if someone has already pointed this out). If being pro-life makes one "not a feminist" than the following women were not feminists:
~Susan B. Anthony
(in her publication The Revolution)-"Guilty? Yes. No matter what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life, it will burden her soul in death; But oh, thrice guilty is he who drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the crime!"

~Elizabeth Cady Stanton
"When we consider that women are treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit."

~Mattie Brinkerhoff
"When a man steals to satisfy hunger, we may safely conclude that there is something wrong in society - so when a woman destroys the life of her unborn child, it is an evidence that either by education or circumstances she has been greatly wronged."

~Victoria Woodhull (the first female presidential candidate)
"Every woman knows that if she were free, she would never bear an unwished-for child, nor think of murdering one before its birth."

~Sarah Norton
"Child murderers practice their profession without let or hindrance, and open infant butcheries unquestioned...Is there no remedy for all this ante-natal child murder?...Perhaps there will come a time when...an unmarried mother will not be despised because of her motherhood...and when the right of the unborn to be born will not be denied or interfered with."

~Matilda Gage
"[This] subject lies deeper down in woman's wrongs than any other...I hesitate not to assert that most of [the responsibility for] this crime lies at the door of the male sex."

***interesting to me that women today think it is men who are all against abortion, I, being in the pro-life movement, know full well that the vast majority of pro-life activists (if you call us such) are women***

~Alice Paul (author of the original ERA)
"Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women."

So- if these women were feminists (which I believe they were), than so am I
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top