|Originally posted by Greaseball
What if a woman who has a high probability of mc-ing tries to conceive? Is that attempted murder?
|I don't know much about IVF, but I thought the mother could decide to have the embryos donated.|
|Of course, there will still be a lot lost through m/c. But is it really any greater than the m/c rate for the general population? I've heard the general rate is 1 in 4 pregnancies end in m/c, and I also hear that in IVF, it takes an average of 4 tries to get to live birth. It could be the m/c rates for IVF seem higher because IVF pregnancies are followed so closely.|
Just talking to hear my own voice at this point
Women that have an abortion have every intent to end a life.
It is my belief that you shouldn't fertilize more eggs than you are willing to use meaning implant and intend on carrying. I believe reduction is abortion. If you're not willing to carry 3 babies, don't implant 3 embryos.
I feel all cloning is wrong, using human beings for parts is reprehensible.
As someone in a position to have to think about IVF (i.e. infertile), this is one of those thigns that you don't know until you get there.
No a woman should not HAVE to donate her unused embryos. Those are genetically her children if they take (which they don't always do) and now woman should be forced to give up her children or potential children.
Most doctors will not do more than three per transfer. And honestly it is pretty rare that all three implant, as the reason they usually do three is because the embryos are of poorer quality. Meaning that they probably won't make it.
IVF give the sperm and the egg better odds of meeting. It does not give the woman a better chance of carrying to term, or of the embryos implanting. That is still a big old crap shoot.
As for fertilizing more eggs than you are willing to use - well that is harder. YOu don't have control over how many eggs are retrieved - nor how many actually fertilize. You may produce only 10 eggs, you may produce 20. Of that 20, only 8 may be mature enough to be fertilized, so the doc tries with all 8, and only 2 fertilize. So great you transfer two. But none may fertilize, or only 1 may be mature enough to fertilize and it doesn't. The idea is to up your odds. So you have to shoot high in order to get anything to work with. The kicker is that these women don't concieve easily, some don't carry to term easily...so you have to up the ante in order to get them pregnant. So while only fertilizing as many eggs as you want to use sounds good - it isn't the way it works.
Women don't resort to IVF as a first line thing. They have often tried to concieve for years, some decades, before trying it. It is a cost intensive, intervention intensive, pain intensive procedure, with no guarantee of outcome being a live birth.
It is a tough decision, like all reproductive decisions. And no one, NO ONE, should get to tell me what is right for me - but me.
Adina mama to B 4/06 and E 8/13/12 (on her due date!)
I am so sorry. I DID NOT want the discussion to be turned into defending IVF or deliniating it from the discussion................
I had hoped that many who rant for and end to legal abortion would see that this would most likely go along with it.............no one ever thinks about it, imo.
Based on that and other factors, I don't think it will ever happen (criminalizing abortion) and I truly wish to see them focus their efforts elsewhere in the problem.
Please forgive me. I did not want to cause you or anyone else discomfort.
It is just a very personal subject to me and I tend to get very expansive and a tad, shall we say, bitter, about it. :LOL
SO I jsut wanted to get that out there that there is a difference, an there are other things to conisder when discussing limiting IVF. That's all!
Adina mama to B 4/06 and E 8/13/12 (on her due date!)
|Originally posted by lula
Maybe I am entering a topic here that I am in over my head..
I do not see how birth control in general/theory and abortion are linked. To me they are not. ....
But, oops, condoms break and the pill isn't too reliable so women get pregnant.
"But hey!" they say, " I'm like an undergrad, man! I have a career that I need to have. I need self-fulfillment, not a baby. Besides, the father is long gone."
The link: contraception.
|Birth control has led to more sex outside of marriage. Hey sex without responsibility!|
I think even if birth control was not available, people would still have sex outside of marriage. Look at all the people who do! Some people cannot get contraception because they are too young, or cannot afford it and do not qualify for free help, or have too many bad reactions to those available. It doesn't stop them from having sex.
I am sorry for all the stomachs this thread is churning ... I had meant for the more complicated issues to come out, though, just because those are the parts of the pro-life stance that always confused me thoroughly, and explanations have never been ... well, explanatory.
FF to last August when I found out I was pg with number five. We were not planning to have five children. I had an IUD removed last April because I didn't agree with the way it prevented pregnancy. I'm a firm believer that a baby created has every right to exist, whether I am "planning" it or not. However, in August, when we found out Adam was on his way, we did discuss abortion. We even went so far as to make the appointment at Planned Parenthood for the RU486 pill. We went. I could not do it. They told me it was time to "pay" for it, and I looked at them and said, "Pay?" and dissolved into tears. The doctors said they could not allow me to take the pill (which was damn fine with me!) because they felt I was not emotionally strong enough to handle it. I told DH I couldn't do it. For the first time in my life, a man I loved and trusted said, "Okay, let's go then."
I left that place feeling ten feet tall and just as happy as a lark. I haven't looked back. I am proud I had the guts to walk away. I love this baby with every inch of my being and am so looking forward to his arrival. I am pro life for myself. I am pro choice for all other women because it is not my place to make their decisions for them. I would never recommend abortion for someone, knowing what I went through and still go through every time I see and hold a newborn. I wonder what that baby I didn't have would've been like.
Some days, it hurts so badly I cry. I also think of the women who would give anything just to have one baby when I am lucky enough to have five. I pray for infertile couples everywhere to have at least a fraction of the gifts I have.
I am a lucky lucky lady...Damn lucky.
After this babe, tho, I'm getting my tubes tied and DH is having a vasectomy. Five is enough.
|Do you believe that abortion might be an acceptable choice in cases of rape or incest?|
Homeschooling mom to 4
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