Let me ask at Delaware Riverkeeper Network and see what they say. I will try to get back to you in a week or two -- our stream monitoring person is on vacation for the next couple of weeks so I may not be able to get an answer ASAP. (But if you're in NY you really do have time to figure it out -- with the SGEIS release, it's still not complete, and there are going to have to be regulations written before any gas drilling a occur).
Quirky? Do you know about base line water testing? I/we can't defend our water (our birthright) without one.
My local health dept has this list posted
Do these entities test for both the naturally occuring pathogens (that drilling opens a pathway for) and the industrial hazards released by fracking?
I am at home with four kids, thank you .
Like most of us, we can't piss away a dime. Any thoughts on where to get our testing done?
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This is a must hear interview! Please share.
just in case you missed this program
Webinar on water testing July 26: http://www.mpnnow.com/newsnow/x401791666/Web-event-addresses-well-water-concerns-with-fracking
Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!
NYS dept of transportation cautions DSGEIS does not address many gas traffic impacts and unless revised impinges state and local ability to remediate problems.
tonight is the town of Vestal's opportunity to say "no to drilling".
7pm at the town hall be early, if you want to speak.
So glad to meet you, we are fighting for the same cause. In fact I think part of the problem (environmental activism) is that this one objective is fragmented into a thousand parts. Let us come together. Pollution for profit has controlling interests all over the planet. How can we help eachother?
Speaking of the same cause, our pro indusrty government just arrested several good people for no good reason.
Many blessings to these brave activists. Our childrens resources are under seige, and the western world is asleep.
Teach peace, demand accountability.
Morning I thought this news worthy.
Of course I am not surprised that the pie in the sky gas production estimates are fictional. It's good to hear the feds are willing to adjust their outlook, and it's quite distressing that the NYDEC hasn't.
Also this week this very interesting piece caught my eye http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11242/1170836-503.stm seems that official assesments (PA state and local) refuse to support the gas industries claims of the tremendous local economic benefits of shale gas. As it turns out the proper data for actually tracking this money is not even in place.
Still, our elected officials are drawing up policy based on gas mythology.
Top 10 Fracking Flaws (revised DSGEIS)
1. New York State isn’t proposing to ban any chemicals, even those known to be
toxic and carcinogenic. While the proposed public disclosure component has been
strengthened, telling New Yorkers what toxic chemicals will be used is not the
same as protecting the public from negative health impacts.
2. The preliminary draft allows drilling waste to escape treatment as hazardous
waste, even if it is in fact hazardous under the law. This means fracking waste
could be sent to treatment facilities unable to properly treat it, putting the health
and safety of our waters and communities at grave risk.
3. The state proposes allowing sewage plants to treat drilling wastes, even
though such plants are not permitted to handle the toxic elements in such wastes,
and even though the DEC itself has called into question New York’s capacity and
ability to treat fracking wastes.
4. Drinking water supplies would be inadequately protected. The preliminary
draft increases buffers and setbacks from aquifers and wells. However the
protections are inconsistent and can be waived in some instances. All setbacks
and buffers must be set to provide maximum protections that cannot be altered.
5. Some fracking restrictions would have sunset dates. The preliminary draft
proposes to place some areas of the state off limits to gas drilling, but upon closer
examination, many of the restrictions have sunset dates and some of the protective
buffers only call for site-specific individual environmental review, rather than
6. The preliminary draft does not analyze public health impacts, despite the fact
that fracking-related air pollution and the potential for water contamination have
serious effects on people—especially the elderly and children, and communities
downwind and downstream of proposed fracking operations. There is growing
evidence of negative health impacts related to gas extraction in other states.
7. The DEC proposes issuing permits before formal rulemaking is complete, a
backward move that leaves New York’s waters and communities at risk.
8. The state is breaking up environmental impact reviews. The thousands of
miles of pipelines or compressor stations required for drilling to get the resulting
gas to market will be reviewed by a different agency under a different process.
Without an accounting of such impacts, New York’s environmental assessment is
incomplete and the full impacts of fracking are unknown. The Public Service
Commission has jurisdiction over gas infrastructure. As such, Governor Cuomo
should direct state agencies to coordinate their efforts in order to protect our air,
water and communities.
9. While proposing to put the New York City and Syracuse watersheds offlimits
to drilling, critical water supply infrastructure would not be protected.
The state proposes a buffer around New York City drinking water infrastructure
in which only an additional review would be required and upon which projects
could be permitted—not a formal ban. The proposed buffer is only one-quarter as
long as a typical horizontal wellbore, too close to the sensitive, aging
infrastructure that provides the city with drinking water. There are no proposed
buffer requirements for Syracuse.
10. New York’s environmental agency has been subject to steep budget and staff
cuts and does not have adequate staff or resources to properly oversee
fracking, even if every possible protection were in place. This reality raises the
possibility that the DEC will be forced to cut corners with its reviews or fast-track
permits despite the risks. Natural Resources Defense Council and Environmental
Advocates of New York are members of an advisory panel expected to weigh in
on agency resources and staffing in the months to come.
read more at www.CleanWaterNotDirtyDrilling.org NY has a mere 60 days to comment to the DEC and advocate for more responsible mandate. Let your voice be heard!
All told, the oil and gas industry spent $174.7 million and registered 788 lobbyists to influence lawmakers and regulators last year, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan research organization. Since 1998, the industry has spent $966.8 million on lobbying, making it the sixth-biggest-spending interest group in Washington, the center found. Furthermore, in a well-researched article today, the Center for American Progress' Brad Johnson revealed that the members who hosted this morning's hearing were the recipients of a lump sum of over $11 million in campaign contributions from the gas and oil industry. Johnson closed his article by pointing out the core flawed premise of this phony scandal.
“The solar industry is truly dependent on subsidies,” subcommittee chairman Cliff Stearns (R-FL) said at the conclusion of the hearing. Stearns did not express similar outrage about the hundreds of billions of dollars that have gone into subsidizing the oil, gas, coal and nuclear industries. None of the Republican members of the panel worried about the $11 million in subsidies they have received from the fossil fuel and nuclear industries in campaign contributions.
Rather than examine the dirty energy subsidy implications of this story, opportunistic politicians and media have focused on the *tiny by comparison* $535 million loan guarantee to Solyndra initiated by former President George W. Bush and approved by current President Barack Obama. The bulk of the media have instead flocked to the "alternative energy must not be viable" narrative.
Solyndra Loan was Pennies By Comparison -- Were they Set Up to Fail?
It is no wonder then, that handed a loan that was pennies by comparison to what the fossil fuel industry receives in subsidies and tax breaks on an annual basis from the government, Solyndra was bound to fail. The Chinese government, for one, recently handed $20 billion to solar panel corporations. Given no tax cuts, no extra subsidies after the initial loans, and handed an astronomical handicap in an energy industry dominated by oil and coal, journalists have yet to ask government officials the crucial question:
With members of both parties finger-pointing and laying the blame on Solyndra, was Solydra, all along, set up to fail by the federal government? Is that what's really going on here?
Dave Roberts of Grist may have hit the nail on the head:
For a mix of financial and ideological reasons, U.S. conservative movement activists, operators, and politicos hate clean energy. They don't believe in climate change, they love fossil fuels and fossil-fuel campaign donations, and they think, or want the U.S. public to think, that clean energy is weak, unreliable, marginal, and dependent on government subsidies. They have been trying to make that case for a long while. What Solyndra gives them is a symbol, something to use as a stand-in to discredit not just the DOE loan program, but all government support for clean energy and indeed clean energy itself.
One can only hope the terms of the debate change, and quickly!
FIFTY-NINE SCIENTISTS WARN GOVERNOR CUOMO THAT MUNICIPAL DRINKING WATER FILTRATION
SYSTEMS ARE NOT EQUIPPED TO HANDLE CHEMICALS AND CONTAMINANTS RESULTING FROM
SCIENTISTS RESPOND TO CUOMO’S VOW TO LET SCIENCE AND HEALTH
CONCERNS GUIDE DECISION
Many regulations geared towards protecting
the population from the impacts of toxic
substances are based on results from adult
studies, which fail to account for the
different toxicokinetics in the young.
What a tough day it has been already. Here is some information about childrens environmental heath, endocrine disruption. .http://www.psr.org/ &
This is a site that tracks commonly used chemicals and human health impacts. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/index.html
Three of my seven pregnancies have ended in early losses, so this is a subject I generally avoid. My guess is most moms and dads do, it is outrageous that every mother (I know) understands the dangers of beer and cigs and crib bumpers but are unaware that our kids are not being protected from industrial chemicals. The air and water in your womb make up the most fragile of environments. It is time to start talking to about this.
Sandra Steingraber 9/27/11
DID YOU KNOW?
The natural gas industry has exemptions or exclusions from key parts of at least 7 of the 15 major federal environmental laws designed to protect air and water from radioactive and hazardous chemicals.
Below are the seven laws listed in the order they were passed.
National Environmental Policy Act
1969 Requires that government agencies evaluate environmental impacts of major federal actions like authorizing oil and gas drilling on public land.
2005 Congress exempts drillers from having to produce certain types of rigorous reports on the potential environmental impact of some types of oil and gas activities.
2006-7 The Bureau of Land Management grants the exemption to a quarter of all wells approved on public land in the West.
Clean Air Act
1970 Limits emissions of toxic air pollutants.
1990 Congress amends the act, strengthening limits on emissions of more than 180 hazardous air pollutants, but exempts all oil and gas wells from certain protections under this rule.
Clean Water Act
1972 Limits discharges into rivers, lakes and streams. Establishes goals of water that is “fishable and swimmable” by 1983 and zero discharge of pollutants by 1985.
1987 Congress amends the act, requiring the E.P.A. to develop a permitting program for stormwater runoff, but these amendments largely exempt oil and gas exploration, production and processing.
2005 Congress expands the industry’s exemptions to the act.
Safe Drinking Water Act
1974 Protects the quality of drinking water and regulates the injection of waste into underground areas.
1995 Carol Browner, head of the E.P.A., writes that hydraulic fracturing is not regulated by the part of the law that pertains to the “underground injection” of waste.
1997 A federal court rules that hydraulic fracturing constitutes “underground injection” and falls under the regulation.
2004 An E.P.A. study focused on coalbed methane concludes that the injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids into underground wells does not present a threat to drinking water. An E.P.A. whistleblower later charges that the study’s conclusions were unsupported and that some members of the study’s peer review panel had conflicts of interest.
2005 Congress exempts hydraulic fracturing from regulation under the act unless diesel is used.
Resource Conservation and Recovery Act
1976 Sets standards for the handling of hazardous wastes.
1980 Lawmakers tell the E.P.A. to study oil and gas exemptions and report back to Congress.
1988 Over objections from agency officials, the E.P.A decides not to apply some hazardous waste rules to specific oil and gas wastes.
1980 Establishes a governmental response to releases of hazardous substances into the environment and holds polluting industries liable for cleanup costs. But natural gas and oil are not considered hazardous under this law, making it more difficult for the E.P.A. to hold some oil and gas operations liable.
Emergency Planning and Community Right to Know Act
1986 Requires certain industries to report to the E.P.A. on the storage, release or transfer of significant levels of toxic substances. But much of the oil and gas industry has not been required by the E.P.A. to follow the law’s reporting requirements.
Please go to http://nyrad.org/ and get involved in our struggle to protect the commons for our children and their future!
STATE - TELL GOVERNOR CUOMO & HIS DEC: DON'T FRACK NY STATE
New York State will hold four public hearings on its proposed rule making concerning high volume hydraulic fracturing. Upstate hearings will be held on Nov. 16, 2011 at Dansville Middle School Auditorium, 31 Clara Barton St., Dansville, NY; Nov. 17, 2011 at The Forum Theatre, 236 Washington St., Binghamton, NY; and Nov. 29, 2011 at Sullivan County Community College, Seelig Theatre 112 College Rd., Loch Sheldrake, NY. The New York City hearing will be on Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2011 at Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers St., New York, NY. The hearings will be held at 1 and 6 p.m. at each of these venues. Also submit your comments.
NY DAILY NEWS: CITY AND STATE ARE NEARLY 7 MILES APART ON NEED TO KEEP FRACKING AWAY FROM WATER SUPPLY
Tuesday, October 11th 2011
New York City's chief water protector is raising a critical question about plans for intensive natural-gas drilling upstate: Could tremors from the process known as hydrofracking damage the city's underground aqueducts, disrupting their all-important billion-gallon-a-day flow? Read the story.
November 21 is DON'T FRACK THE DELAWARE Day. If you can't join us in Trenton, please, visit Delaware Riverkeeper's website for actions you can take from home! We need all the letters and calls we can get from residents in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware!
Industry representatives say DEC hydrofracking rules may keep drillers out
We can stop this, but we need your help! As of Monday, only 1,096 comments have been submitted, according to DeSantis. Deadline is December 12 2011. Four public hearings will be held in November, including Nov. 16 in Dansville, Livingston County, and Nov. 17 in Binghamton. DEC said the agency "NY will not cut corners in New York when it comes to protecting public health and environment."
Chip Northrup posted a guide to submitting a comment here. http://www.youtube.com/user/northrup49#p/a/u/0/deNiK_nl1jQ
Or if you want to do it by mail the address is
Bureau of Oil and Gas Regulation
NYSDEC division of Mineral Resources
625 Broadway, Third Floor
Many are still on the fence about this; yesterday an article in the NY times concerning property values was released. Bankers and real estate executives, especially in New York, are starting to pay closer attention to the fine print and are raising provocative questions, such as: What happens if they lend money for a piece of land that ends up storing the equivalent of an Olympic-size swimming pool filled with toxic wastewater from drilling? Fearful of just such a possibility, some banks have become reluctant to grant mortgages on properties leased for gas drilling. At least eight local or national banks do not typically issue mortgages on such properties. Some real estate agents have started raising red flags. “When you decide to sell your house you may find it difficult to do so because many banks, here and elsewhere, will not mortgage properties with gas leases, which, in turn, limits the number of buyers willing and able to buy your property,” It’s not just well pads, gas wells require pipe lines, meter stations, which will mean compressor stations, gas holding facilities…any number of which may go through your neighborhood.
For years people here in New York have been saying we can't fight fracking, that it is a done deal. This is a lie!
Look at the most recent poll
Please understand, there is a reason for the "rush" to drill. Look at my previous post regarding gas industry exemptions. Everyday the technology used to drill the Marcellus evolves. That’s right there are already methods being tested that don’t use millions of gallons of fresh water per well. Better technology that will keep toxins out of the air. Air pollution is one of the biggest most understudied health hazards. New technology is expensive. The gas industry wants to drill the Marcellus on the cheap, the laws favor industry. They will not be held accountable when the cost of production comes storming in! In 10 years they'll have fleased the land owners, and left the tax payers to deal with the damages. There are so many reasons to wait! The state has not done long term health studies! There is no mechanism for funding the agencies who will be struggling with additional costs brought by gas production! No way to fund disposal of waste! Our local board is basing ALL of it's gas policy on the assumption that the gas companies will come to the tax payers rescue when ever we call. The gas industry employs the best lawyers in the world! A fool lives by their assumptions!
SEND a message to your senator tell them to suspend drilling
demand the SGEIS be revised
Please give a little of your time and show up at the hearings! We are blessed to live in a democracy! This is our opportunity to show the world NY cares about our quality of life! Citizens have rights and responsibilities.
DEC will hold four public hearings on the revised draft SGEIS, draft regulations and proposed SPDES GP. Each public hearing will have an afternoon and an evening session from 1:00 pm to 4:00 pm and 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm, respectively.
Comments will be accepted in written and oral format at the hearings. The hearings will be held:
Nov. 16: Dansville Middle School Auditorium, 31 Clara Barton St., Dansville, NY 14437
Nov. 17: The Forum Theatre, 236 Washington Street, Binghamton, NY, 13901
Nov. 29: Sullivan County Community College, Seelig Theatre, 112 College Rd, Loch Sheldrake, NY 12759
Nov. 30: Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers Street, New York, NY, 10007
A federal advisory panel is warning that "serious environmental consequences" could result from the gas drilling technique known as hydraulic fracturing if steps aren't taken to reduce its impacts.
The seven-member committee said in a report released Thursday that progress by the federal government and the oil and gas industry on 20 recommendations it issued in August has been less than it hoped. It said if actions were not taken to avoid "excessive environmental impacts," a public outcry could delay or stop the gas drilling boom.
Energy Secretary Steven Chu asked the panel in May for advice on ways to improve hydraulic fracturing's safety and environmental soundness.
It recommended reducing air pollution and eliminating diesel fuel and disclosing all other chemicals pumped underground to fracture rock and access natural gas.
Oh and it also turns out that both the U.S Army and the U.S. Geological Survey armed with over fifty years of research have confirmed on a federal level that that “fluid injection” introduces subterranean instability and is a contributory factor in inducing increased seismic activity.
I posted in the local tribe area and no one responded about the Nov 21 rally in Trenton- shocking so little care about their water--HELLO NYC where do you think your drink water comes from?
Hi mama, glad to hear your voice. Thanks for speaking up! I just read this, it's from the Times last week, did ya see it?
YES, I did see it
I am SHOCKED not to see anything in the tribe section when so many IRL in my area are going and we are FARRRRRRRRRRR from "crunchy" here - just super aware of the river (Delaware) but HELLO, like I said--this effects soooooooooooo many people!!! not just in PA
I do not know (not sure if this can even be "said" here- with the recent Penn State "thing") the sad thing is their deep connection and the total lack of knowledge by most! AND really the two are so closely related! MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!!!
FRACK for SPORT!! yea!!!! http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10260/1088268-100.stm
as a PA resident, the outcry over the damage of the lives (with the current thing) - is super tragic, throw in non-usable h2o and that is thousands and thousands of lives totally destroyed - once your water catches on fire you really won't want to play football
very sad to see that the local tribe area didn't respond at all -
as holistic type mothers I find this shocking!
my area contributed to the fracking rally in Trenton and the pressure prior to the rally certainly had a major impact http://newjersey.sierraclub.org/PressReleases/0231.asp
Gas development has been a real wake up call. We were so frustrated to find that the motive to profit was so dominant in peoples decision making. It is really important that people are exposed to the real economics involved here. The media needs to stop making the issue jobs vs environment. Right vs left. It is the media, that has failed to inform the average person that a fraction of the population will profit from gas. They refuse to expose the massive costs that citizens will be forced to pay. Superfund site, what's that? Looking into exclusions,exemptions and state laws, it is clear that legally the gas industry is untouchable. I've heard lots of assumptions about what the gas industry may do. I don't see stories about how the state will pay for it's subsidies to the gas companies or increased funding to departments (like the DOT) that will be effected by massive industrial activities. You'd think someone would be carefully monitoring the produce/dairy products that are coming from formally rural, now industrialized areas. But, that would damage the economy. Just because they aren't taking potentially toxic products seriously doesn't mean people don't boycott them.The result is still economic harm. When people get sick from the toxic air pollution, they pay with there health. Again, the masses take on the financial burden. Tourism? When is your family planning to visit the oil production regions of Louisiana? People believe ignorance can be a sanctuary. In my county, those people are in local government.
Okay it's easy to be negative. I apologize to those politicians in our area that are clearly well informed on working for the publics well being. In case you are interested this is the binghamton DEC hearing
New Food & Water Watch Analysis Reveals the New York SGEIS is exaggerating the Job Creation Potential of Shale Gas Development
Washington, D.C.—As officials in New York determine whether to allow the controversial practice of hydraulic fracturing, the consumer advocacy group Food & Water Watch today released new analysis that finds that the Cuomo administration is exaggerating the potential of shale gas development to generate jobs for New Yorkers. How New York State Exaggerated Potential Job Creation from Shale Gas Development finds that New York residents should expect a mere fraction of the jobs promised by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation.
Food & Water Watch examined the department’s socioeconomic impact analysis and found that within its “average scenario”, New York residents can only expect 195 new jobs associated with shale gas development. This would increase to over 600 new jobs for current New Yorkers by the tenth year of shale gas development, but after this tenth year, there would be virtually no new jobs. With over 755,000 New Yorkers unemployed as of August of 2011 according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 195 new oil and gas industry jobs would create new employment opportunity for only one-fortieth of 1 percent of those who are out of work.
“The number of actual jobs that would be created from shale gas development in New York is a very small fraction of what state residents have been led to believe from all of the industry’s hype,” said Food & Water Watch Executive Director Wenonah Hauter. “Such minimal economic benefits do not justify the short and long-term public health and environmental costs that would accompany drilling and fracking for shale gas.”
According to Food & Water Watch, the Cuomo administration provides an inaccurate account of shale gas development’s job creation potential by:
- Counting many jobs that would be filled by out-of-state workers, or by workers with shale gas industry experience who would relocate to New York permanently;
- Mischaracterizing a rapid pace of shale gas drilling and fracking as an “average” development scenario, one that would lead to more than 20,000 wells drilled in just three counties of the state (Broome, Chemung and Tioga);
- Failing to account for the negative impacts drilling and fracking would have on employment in other industries, such as tourism and agriculture;
- Assuming that shale gas wells will produce for 30 years when they may only produce for much shorter timespans;
- Misusing economic multipliers to estimate the economic spillover effect of gas industry jobs;
- Failing to provide methodological details necessary to validate the basis of these claims.
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