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Activism and News > Bin Laden
MCatLvrMom2A&X's Avatar MCatLvrMom2A&X 08:45 AM 05-02-2011
In Obama's own words Bin Ladin died Sunday Morning May 1st. They are still awaiting the DNA tests and debating which photo's to show and when.

mommariffic's Avatar mommariffic 08:46 AM 05-02-2011

You know I have such mixed feelings about this 

 

Personally, I will not be jumping up and down waving my flag for this death. I too wonder if it will make a difference...the thing is I think the celebrating that's been going on is just as equal as the folks that jumped up and down when they killed people over here...


bonjourmama's Avatar bonjourmama 09:04 AM 05-02-2011

 praying for peace around the world. For me, this is a sad reminder of the division amongst us. 


KayCSmommy's Avatar KayCSmommy 09:10 AM 05-02-2011



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

Am I the only one who is waiting for some actual physical evidence showing he's dead? No body, no photo, no DNA results (as yet).





 

I won't believe it before I see some sort of proof either! Its just too convenient that they did a water burial!!

MCatLvrMom2A&X's Avatar MCatLvrMom2A&X 09:19 AM 05-02-2011
CNN just posted "DNA confirms Bin Laden dead"
mattemma04 09:30 AM 05-02-2011

Convenient that he was buried at sea.No proof of death. And when you think about it does it change anything? Was it worth it to spend millions,have thousands of soilders die over the years,and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people(women and children) in the countries we invaded?

 

IMO it was not worth it. Our nation has created far more enimies than allies. Our military does not always respect human rights. We tortured,raped,and killed a lot of people while we occupied their coutries.How do we justify the death of so many?Do we blame it all on Bin Laden and his followers?

 

Israel does it better.When they have someone specific  they want  to kill they have their elite group go in and kill that person....and then they leave.It is unfortunate our nation did not do that in place of  invading countries with full military force.


meemee's Avatar meemee 09:36 AM 05-02-2011


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2landon View Post

 

It's not his death per se that we are cheering, but the notion of justice. 

JUSTICE?!!! what justice?!!! 

 

there is sooo much more to this story.

 

justice would be to look at actions to find out why Bin Laden was created even in the first place. 

 

more people are dead because of Bush, not Bin Laden. he became the excuse.

 

right now i am not celebrating. and yes i have been directly affected by 9/11 too. its wasnt just a US thing. it was a world thing. 

 

instead i am full of suspicion. 

 

another faux pas over his body. more reason to hate. 

 

i am sitting here thinking when are we ever going to wake up and look at our policies and stop creating situations where people like Osama was born. 

 

how long is the secret document period? 

 

eyesroll.gif my eyes instead because now the politicians get a break from answering questions on unemployment and the economy. 

 

and i question. did we really not know? or did we actually carry it out now before osama died so we can say we did it. 
 

btw... did you know - just a weird coincidence - that Hitler's death was announced on may 1st too. yup people. may 1, 1945.


mattemma04 09:47 AM 05-02-2011

Regarding Libya I read that recently NATO killed 4 of Muammar al-Gaddafi 's grandchildren.All were under the age of 12. Sad that we disregard the lives of those children so that we can assist in the take over of a government.We always find a way to justify the killing of innocent people,or we simply ignore that it occured.Similar to the 9 boys killed in Afgahnistan recently while collecting firewood. Children caught up in wars that will never really have a winner.


bonjourmama's Avatar bonjourmama 10:10 AM 05-02-2011

I have to say meemee, you are spot on 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post


 

JUSTICE?!!! what justice?!!! 

 

there is sooo much more to this story.

 

justice would be to look at actions to find out why Bin Laden was created even in the first place. 

 

more people are dead because of Bush, not Bin Laden. he became the excuse.

 

right now i am not celebrating. and yes i have been directly affected by 9/11 too. its wasnt just a US thing. it was a world thing. 

 

instead i am full of suspicion. 

 

another faux pas over his body. more reason to hate. 

 

i am sitting here thinking when are we ever going to wake up and look at our policies and stop creating situations where people like Osama was born. 

 

how long is the secret document period? 

 

eyesroll.gif my eyes instead because now the politicians get a break from answering questions on unemployment and the economy. 

 

and i question. did we really not know? or did we actually carry it out now before osama died so we can say we did it. 
 

btw... did you know - just a weird coincidence - that Hitler's death was announced on may 1st too. yup people. may 1, 1945.



 


journeymom's Avatar journeymom 10:53 AM 05-02-2011

I can't say as I ever feel good about the death of a human being.  But it's about time they got him.  I do think this is justice. 

 

Evidence:  I guess you believe the US government about this or you don't. shrug.gif  The dna evidence proves he was bin Laden.   He was shot in the head so making a photo of him public would be controversial.  He was buried at sea so his followers can't make a monument at his grave site. 

 

Just a reminder that while Bin Laden hated the US, he said that his inspiration for the 9/11 attack was Israeli aircraft bombing towers in Lebanon in 1982. 


velochic's Avatar velochic 10:58 AM 05-02-2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post

 

btw... did you know - just a weird coincidence - that Hitler's death was announced on may 1st too. yup people. may 1, 1945.



Oh.... you're right.  May Day!  It's actually independence day for a lot of the world.  I'm sure the gov't conspired to make sure this happened on May 1st so that we can declare a holiday in the US and have the day off like the rest of the world.  And what cleverness to make links to the past!!  They knew about it since August, but WAITED for May Day and the anniversary of Hitler's death to DO.THE.DEED. so that we would all link Bin Laden to that more vile and evil persona.

 

Gah!  The conspiracy theories ABOUND!!

 

Yes... it was justice.  How would he have been brought to trial if they hadn't just killed him?


mama2landon's Avatar mama2landon 11:27 AM 05-02-2011

The death of a mass murderer is still the death of a mass murderer, regardless of how he came to such beliefs.  As I said in the rest of my post, I'm not unaware of the evils that the U.S. has committed and continues to commit, a large part of what bin Laden claims as reason for his jihad.  However, the death of an evil person that actually plots and/or carries out attacks that *specifically target* innocent civilians, well, yes frankly, I am glad that such a person is no longer on this earth to plan such evils. As I also said, I would have been happier if he had been captured alive and brought to trial for his crimes, but that is not the case here- all the wishing in the world won't make it so, now.  But I can and do still hope that others are brought to justice- that is, to trial- for similar crimes they have committed.  Including certain past and present high level American officials, some members of our military who have committed atrocities of their own, and of course, remaining members of al-Qaida. 

 

And the politicians will get- at most- a two or three day break from answering questions about unemployment and the economy. The American public, and by extension it's media, has far too short of an attention span to let the everyday realities of no jobs/no money slip out of sight for too long.

 

And you're right- what a weird coincidence about Hitler's death being announced on the same day.  Coincidence being the operative word here, of course.  I am waiting for actual proof though- pictures or what not.  But I do believe they got him, just that proof that they did so would be nice.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post


 

JUSTICE?!!! what justice?!!! 

 

there is sooo much more to this story.

 

justice would be to look at actions to find out why Bin Laden was created even in the first place. 

 

more people are dead because of Bush, not Bin Laden. he became the excuse.

 

right now i am not celebrating. and yes i have been directly affected by 9/11 too. its wasnt just a US thing. it was a world thing. 

 

instead i am full of suspicion. 

 

another faux pas over his body. more reason to hate. 

 

i am sitting here thinking when are we ever going to wake up and look at our policies and stop creating situations where people like Osama was born. 

 

how long is the secret document period? 

 

eyesroll.gif my eyes instead because now the politicians get a break from answering questions on unemployment and the economy. 

 

and i question. did we really not know? or did we actually carry it out now before osama died so we can say we did it. 
 

btw... did you know - just a weird coincidence - that Hitler's death was announced on may 1st too. yup people. may 1, 1945.



 


moonfirefaery's Avatar moonfirefaery 11:53 AM 05-02-2011

rubyhatespets, I'm sure there are people in the world who aren't cheering, but given the images in the media and the numerous statements released by other world leaders applauding this day, I think it's safe to say most of the people in the world are cheering. Terrorists and their supportors are the only ones who aren't cheering. I'm not shocked at all. The man murdered thousands and would murder thousands more if he could; his death prevents him from doing more murder, and it is a cause for celebration. There are Muslims who are upset at the way he is burried; there will be Muslims who think we are anti-Muslim, always, no matter what. There are terrorists and people/governments who support them who are upset at the loss. But the average peace-loving person in the world is glad. I doubt the news is fabricating the statements being released by other world leaders or that those other world leaders are lying about their countrymen's sentiments.

Death is a natural part of life; we mourn for what they never got the chance to do, will never do again; we mourn for missing them; we mourn for their families. Death itself is not something to mourn and can be something to celebrate. Osama's death makes the lives of innocents safer; the world will not miss him, nor do we have any reason to mourn what he never got the chance to do and will never do again because it would have been murder.

mtiger, per the news, DNA did confirm the kill was Osama. I don't peg Obama for the type to lie about catching Osama. If anyone would have lied about that, it'd have been Bush.


insidevoice's Avatar insidevoice 11:57 AM 05-02-2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post

I'm sure there are people in the world who aren't cheering, but given the images in the media and the numerous statements released by other world leaders applauding this day, I think it's safe to say most of the people in the world are cheering. Terrorists and their supportors are the only ones who aren't cheering.


Wow, that's a horrific generalization. 


AFWife's Avatar AFWife 12:21 PM 05-02-2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

I can't say as I ever feel good about the death of a human being.  But it's about time they got him.  I do think this is justice. 

 

Evidence:  I guess you believe the US government about this or you don't. shrug.gif  The dna evidence proves he was bin Laden.   He was shot in the head so making a photo of him public would be controversial.  He was buried at sea so his followers can't make a monument at his grave site. 

 

Just a reminder that while Bin Laden hated the US, he said that his inspiration for the 9/11 attack was Israeli aircraft bombing towers in Lebanon in 1982. 


Apparently there's a photo somewhere...a "friend" posted it on Facebook. She also went on and on about "wanting to see him dead" Yeah, I'm thinking we won't be friends much longer.

 


MCatLvrMom2A&X's Avatar MCatLvrMom2A&X 12:31 PM 05-02-2011
The one photo that is out there right now is a fake according to what I have read (unless they have released some since this morning) photo shopped to look like OBL.
AFWife's Avatar AFWife 12:37 PM 05-02-2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post

The one photo that is out there right now is a fake according to what I have read (unless they have released some since this morning) photo shopped to look like OBL.


Can you find me the article? I'd like to show her.


journeymom's Avatar journeymom 12:50 PM 05-02-2011

I won't be surprised if they release the real photo(s) at some point.

 

"The Obama administration has actual photographs of bin Laden's corpse, but officials are still struggling over what to do with them, says ABC News. The White House is weighing the benefits of releasing the photos to combat skepticism around the world about bin Laden's death versus the gruesome nature of the photos. (There are blood and brains visible in the head wound above his left eye.) In 2003, for example, the U.S. government released photos of Saddam Hussein's sons only after they had been touched up. Perhaps the president is just waiting for Donald Trump to ask?"

 

WARNING: disturbing photo.   http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/05/how_the_us_used_dna_evidence_t.html

 

Interesting, I did not know those photos of Hussein's sons had been touched up.


moonfirefaery's Avatar moonfirefaery 01:02 PM 05-02-2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by insidevoice View Post

Wow, that's a horrific generalization. 

 


Yes, so take it for what it is: a generalization. There are terrorists and their supporters not cheering, and then there is a minority that seems not to be cheering, but I doubt the news is fabricating the statements being released by world leaders and the celebrations in other world countries. Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden don't just kill Americans and Christians; they kill Muslims, too. People in the Middle East, even in some of the most turbulent nations, have lived in fear of bin Laden. While he does have supporters there who feel his terrorist approach is justified, aka his supporters, there are many more who fear him. The average man and woman living over there just want to be able to go out to lunch without worrying about being blown up. It's not only Americans who are cheering; there are many places in the world where they are happy. The general consensus from world leaders, with the exceptions of the ones incredibly hostile to us and probably supportive of al Quaeda, is that this is good. If other world leaders have made comments indicating his death is not welcome, it's news to my ears right now. There is no need for people to be hateful, as some are people, but it is not wrong to celebrate that a murderer may no longer do murder.

 

A shot through the head was way more humane than what our people endured on 9/11.


lovingmommyhood's Avatar lovingmommyhood 01:19 PM 05-02-2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by insidevoice View Post




Wow, that's a horrific generalization. 


So is the person who said their "Friends abroad" are shocked to see the images of US citizens cheering. As if that represents the entire world. 

 


lovingmommyhood's Avatar lovingmommyhood 01:20 PM 05-02-2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by AFWife View Post





Can you find me the article? I'd like to show her.



Yes I'd like to see it too!


MCatLvrMom2A&X's Avatar MCatLvrMom2A&X 01:32 PM 05-02-2011
MusicianDad's Avatar MusicianDad 02:01 PM 05-02-2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
 Terrorists and their supportors are the only ones who aren't cheering.

 

Um, wow...

 

I an neither a terrorist, nor a supporter of terrorists.

 

I an not cheering either. For no other reason than I feel that cheering a death is wrong.


rubyhatespets's Avatar rubyhatespets 02:11 PM 05-02-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
 but I doubt the news is fabricating the statements being released by world leaders and the celebrations in other world countries.

 

There's a difference between fabrication and interpretation.  I haven't seen any world leaders' statements actively celebrating or cheering his death.  The only cheering I have seen are the crowds in New York and outside the White House and I don't think that presents the US in the best light.

 

 


AFWife's Avatar AFWife 02:14 PM 05-02-2011


Quote:
Originally Posted by rubyhatespets View Post

Quote:

 

There's a difference between fabrication and interpretation.  I haven't seen any world leaders' statements actively celebrating or cheering his death.  The only cheering I have seen are the crowds in New York and outside the White House and I don't think that presents the US in the best light.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that he can't harm anyone anymore...but it's not cool to scream and dance about death. That's what THEY did after 9/11 and everyone here in the US talked about how tacky it was.

 

Something else a lot of people aren't considering is how this might affect US safety.
 

 


Arduinna's Avatar Arduinna 02:26 PM 05-02-2011

A bunch of people cheering a terrorist attack is the not the same a people cheering the death of a terrorist. I'm certainly not crying over his death, he could have surrendered and been taken alive. He chose his path.


 

 

 


journeymom's Avatar journeymom 02:37 PM 05-02-2011

Hey People, can I just say how much I'm appreciating this thread (and the other bin Laden thread)?   Strong disagreements, civil discourse:  thumb.gif


Chamomile Girl's Avatar Chamomile Girl 03:35 PM 05-02-2011

Am I the only one reading this thread and thinking how strange it is that people still suppose a link between 9-11 and the American invasion of Iraq?


journeymom's Avatar journeymom 03:57 PM 05-02-2011

No, you're not the only one.  Actually reading up on bin Laden's life today, reading about what he actually believed, just put it into even sharper focus for me.  It's not just strange, it's dumbfounding that people still claim that 9/11 justified the invasion of Iraq. It boggles.


moonfirefaery's Avatar moonfirefaery 04:28 PM 05-02-2011

MusicianDad - We already established the previous comment was a deliberate generalization meant to show that the general consensus worldwide is relief that Osama can at least do no more harm. People are afraid and may have preferred he be captured alive, but people ARE glad he can't do harm anymore. I wasn't referring to literal cheering in the streets, but rather acknowledging that Osama being no longer able to do harm is a good thing. His capture and his incapicity to do harm are what I cheer, not his death, although I don't mourn him.

I have friends abroad who are cheering, telling me how well they think the administration handled this, etc. Again, I don't think people are screaming and dancing about death. They would have been doing this just the same if he had been taken alive. It's his neutralization that makes people dance. And as someone else said, there's a huge difference between dancing and cheering a terrorist attack and dancing and cheering the death of a terrorist who ordered a massive terrorist attack costing 3000 lives.


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