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#1 of 33 Old 10-17-2011, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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California allows college aid to illegal immigrants

 

From the article, "California Governor Jerry Brown on Saturday signed a bill giving illegal immigrant college students access to state-funded financial aid, the second half of two-part legislation known as the 'Dream Act.'  Only two other states, Texas and New Mexico, allow illegal immigrants to qualify for state financial aid for college, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures."  The article closes by saying that this law impacts less than 1% of enrolled students.

 

What do you think? 

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#2 of 33 Old 10-23-2011, 10:49 PM
 
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I'm totally for the Dream Act and applaud Jerry Brown & Cali for doing this. I wish I had something more eloquent to add. But yeah, good stuff.


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#3 of 33 Old 10-28-2011, 11:46 AM
 
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#4 of 33 Old 12-07-2011, 02:38 AM
 
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My best friend is an illegal imigrant who moved to California when he was 4. His family has lost thousands of dollars to scamming supposed lawyers while trying to obtain citizenship. This friend of mine is a very smart, well spoken man who struggles with tuition because the only job he can get is as a fry cook.  I think The Dream Act is awesome.  I think people who are willing to go to school to try to enrich their lives deserve a chance.


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#5 of 33 Old 12-07-2011, 10:21 AM
 
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Wonderful! 


 

 

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#6 of 33 Old 12-07-2011, 10:47 AM
 
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We just had this discussion at work.  I have no problem with giving aid for college... to everyone who wants to go.  I have a problem with selecting a group and saying that they can go without some of the financial hardships that follows.  My mother was what would now be considered an anchor baby and my family worked the fields and traveled around the US until they finally settled.  I also worked in the fields when I was a child not as an immigrant but as a way for our family to pay for things we needed. 

 

If you take some time to look around your area you'll see a lot kids who dream of going to college who want better for themselves and their future families.  I want them to be able to go too.  Yes they can get better grades and get a scholarship, yes they can work hard and pay for it themselves.  I would just like the division to stop.  The dream act creates more division and honestly I feel it will widen the gap for immigrants acceptance into our communities. 

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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

We just had this discussion at work.  I have no problem with giving aid for college... to everyone who wants to go.  I have a problem with selecting a group and saying that they can go without some of the financial hardships that follows.  My mother was what would now be considered an anchor baby and my family worked the fields and traveled around the US until they finally settled.  I also worked in the fields when I was a child not as an immigrant but as a way for our family to pay for things we needed. 

 

If you take some time to look around your area you'll see a lot kids who dream of going to college who want better for themselves and their future families.  I want them to be able to go too.  Yes they can get better grades and get a scholarship, yes they can work hard and pay for it themselves.  I would just like the division to stop.  The dream act creates more division and honestly I feel it will widen the gap for immigrants acceptance into our communities. 


I really don't understand what division you think this creates.  It does not pay for children of illegal immigrants to pay to go to college--- it grants them in state status for tuition (in CA) if they live in the state of CA.  Any other resident of CA already has this as a given.  If a person wants to get in state tuition in CA, they  simply need to meet the residency requirements.  This is not *extra*, this is being treated the same as any other resident.  It in no way hurts children of citizens.
 

 

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#8 of 33 Old 12-07-2011, 07:28 PM
 
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Aid will be given.  Have you read the dream act?  There are so many if's involved it's practically mind boggling.  It's not only about education, it also throws in military service.  That's an 8 year commitment.  8 years to fight for a country not of your origin.  Do you know where they place people with minimal english capabilities?  Army, infantry.  Sounds like a dream to me.  Don't let them fool you with years.  Most people who join don't even know that it's 8 years.  So many active, so many inactive.  And they're calling people back in for deployments left and right. 

 

Would you like to cannon fodder to for residency? 

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#9 of 33 Old 12-07-2011, 09:57 PM
 
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Well I think a lot of the kids the Dream Act will help don't have limited English, in fact they've pretty much grown up in the US, they grow up pretty darn bilingual since they arrived young and went to US schools. Just from the kids and families I know.

 

Also, the military thing is military OR 2 years of university, like community college. Military service is not an obligation.

 

From what I understand it allows kids access to residency which means getting in-state tuition and also loans and whatnot, not automatic financial aid.

 

There are so many undocumented young folks who grew up in the US who can't go to college because it's way too expensive. If they were able to earn residency and pay in-state and get some federal loans or grants ~ under the same academic and "moral character" requirements as documented kids (moral character taken from actual Dream Act language :) then I think society in general will benefit ~ more young people with education, skills, ability to compete for jobs.


Those are my dos centavos!


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#10 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 04:39 AM
 
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Alright Guatemama, I'm just trying to show the side that people don't want to look at.  When you see something that looks good and sounds nice there are other parts to it.  And it's not 2 years it's an 8 year commitment. 

 

Of course society should benefit.  However lets take all the stupid rules away the constantly hinder all people to a decent education.  Give everybody a fair chance.  I joined the military to get my college education.  I wish I could give those years back!

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#11 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 04:57 AM
 
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Look I know it says two years, you have to complete two years in the military to be eligible.  However the commitment in the military is actually 8.  What if, you complete one year and are injured and discharged?  What if you face failure to adapt?  Discharged.  What if... there are so many conditions to the dream act its practically unattainable. 

 

There is a large grop of former immigrants now citizens who are outraged, as they should be.  There are many people in my life who have just recieved their citizenship and they did everything the right way.  The struggle was longer, the road was crappy and they lived in fear they would end up being lost in paper work and eventually deported.  A friend of mine from The Former Yugoslavia waited 14 yrs for her citizenship to go through.  14 yrs!!!!  She worked for the Government as a translator and somehow they spelled her name wrong...repeatedly.  Of course people want it to be easier.  The Dream Act is the same as everything else.  It says you can stay if you do this this and this... But don't mess up... if you do we'll deport you.  The dream act is trash!  They need to come up with something better. 

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#12 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 05:00 AM
 
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Among the more than 11 million undocumented immigrants, there are grandparents, mothers, and fathers who have been here for decades and who have contributed to our communities, paid taxes, and even put their lives on the line to defend our country in the armed forces.

 

 

What about them?

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#13 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 06:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Aid will be given.  Have you read the dream act?  There are so many if's involved it's practically mind boggling.  It's not only about education, it also throws in military service.  That's an 8 year commitment.  8 years to fight for a country not of your origin.  Do you know where they place people with minimal english capabilities?  Army, infantry.  Sounds like a dream to me.  Don't let them fool you with years.  Most people who join don't even know that it's 8 years.  So many active, so many inactive.  And they're calling people back in for deployments left and right. 

 

Would you like to cannon fodder to for residency? 


 

This is part of the FEDERAL dream act that FAILED. California cannot give undocumented immigrants the right to citizenship - that's federal and cannot be taken over by the states. The CA dream act simply allows financial aid to be given to undoumented students to pursue a post secondary education. That's all they can do without conflicting with federal law.

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#14 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 06:36 AM
 
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Ok, so I had my Dream Acts mixed up.  And since the federal dream act went nowhere what is the point for CA to have theirs.  Yes they can go to college and have access to FINANCIAL AID... but then they can't legally get a job here. 

 

It's all BS.

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Ok, so I had my Dream Acts mixed up.  And since the federal dream act went nowhere what is the point for CA to have theirs.  Yes they can go to college and have access to FINANCIAL AID... but then they can't legally get a job here.

 

It's all BS.



But they can work in other countries, and have a damn good education to back them up. Then, after a time of being outside the states they can apply for a greencard.

 

Alternatively, if they find a company that wants to hire them here in the US, the company can sponsor them for a greencard. In that way, they can seek citizenship.

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#16 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 07:56 AM
 
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If if if if if if.  Nothing is certain

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If if if if if if.  Nothing is certain



right.  it's an OPPORTUNITY.


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#18 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 08:27 AM
 
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I guess I can't see why anyone has fallen for this.  I just don't see it as an opportunity.  More loopholes.  Why can't they just get their heads out of their butts?  It's not just about the kids it's about all those who have been here working, paying taxes here and their fricking opportunities.  Ah... but throw them a little here and there and the masses are fine with that... we've done enough.  My great grandmother was never a citizen but lived and worked here. Payed taxes and died here.  Either way she was too old for the Dream Act.  I just find that it's not enough.

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I guess I can't see why anyone has fallen for this.  I just don't see it as an opportunity.  More loopholes.  Why can't they just get their heads out of their butts?  It's not just about the kids it's about all those who have been here working, paying taxes here and their fricking opportunities.  Ah... but throw them a little here and there and the masses are fine with that... we've done enough.  My great grandmother was never a citizen but lived and worked here. Payed taxes and died here.  Either way she was too old for the Dream Act.  I just find that it's not enough.



It's not. But it IS a start. A good start. Are we done? Nope. But at least there is a start, a jumping off point.

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#20 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 10:48 AM
 
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It doesn't fix everything, of course, but I believe it addresses a huge problem. In CA the Dream Act is considered a path to citizenship, sort of part of the journey for young folks to become citizens ~ kids who have been here for years and likely whose families pay taxes in some form. Again, I think this affects a very interesting group of young people: those who grew up in the US, are probably pretty darn American-ized, kids who have spent years, maybe even all 12 in the regular school system. I think we need more clear paths to citizenship for folks and this is a good one for some, if they so choose.

 

From what I understand they are granted conditional permanent residency, which would allow one to work while on the path to citizenship.

 

Even without the Dream Act there are a lot of immigrants in the military, which I think is a whole other problem in many ways. The first American soldier to die in Iraq was an undocumented Guatemalan immigrant. Quick google search: http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/gutierrezjose.html ~ There was a documentary made about him which was pretty interesting, that undocumented guys like this can sign up for the military and yeah, be on the front lines, but not be able to go to college or whatever else if they so choose. It's complicated. But I think the Dream Act is a step forward.

 

 


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If I had the time I could list all the "good starts" all the "jumping off points".   It is still divisive!  It's ridiculous to me!  To me, not you to me. 
 

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It's not. But it IS a start. A good start. Are we done? Nope. But at least there is a start, a jumping off point.



 

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#22 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 11:11 AM
 
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What do you suggest? What would be an alternative idea to the Dream Act? I'm very much interested in immigrant issues, especially related to youth!
 

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If I had the time I could list all the "good starts" all the "jumping off points".   It is still divisive!  It's ridiculous to me!  To me, not you to me. 
 



 



 


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#23 of 33 Old 12-08-2011, 11:32 AM
 
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We apparently have a love hate relationship with immigrants.  We've created programs to have them come here and work then depending on our mood we have blamed all that ails us on them.  So many people can't tell the difference between and illegal alien and one who is here legally.  So they put them altogether in one group.  That alone has caused an abundance of fear, fraud and backlash. 

 

Allow all immigrants access to education.  Young and old.  If you're working here and the company or farm you are working for is honest you should be paying taxes.  If you're paying taxes and are responsible for minors, you should be granted a citizenship.  When they come to get a workers card this should be explained to them.  They can choose to pursue their citizenship as well as work or work and go home when the seasons are over.  While they're working, paying taxes and pursuing their citizenship they should have access to low cost medical and housing.  For one, they're already doing more than a decent amount of citizens. 

 

If you can prove that you have been here contributing in someway, work/volunteer for X amount of years.  You would be given citizenship. 

 

As far as the kids go, they need to take all the IF's out of it.  It's not a game, it's life.  Your choices at 18 shouldn't be Military, College... DEPORTATION! 

 

Am I rambling?  Maybe but I still have a few family members who live in Mexico but stay there because to them the hassle is not worth being treated like trash.

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I agree with you.

 

I just edited to erase a buncha of my personal opinions. I guess I don't really feel like putting it all out there right now :) But Imakcerka, I agree with your post which sounds like you are in favor of giving people a path to legalization. The Dream Act may not be your way of doing things, that's cool, but real paths to citizenship we can agree on :)


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It doesn't fix everything, of course, but I believe it addresses a huge problem. In CA the Dream Act is considered a path to citizenship, sort of part of the journey for young folks to become citizens ~ kids who have been here for years and likely whose families pay taxes in some form. Again, I think this affects a very interesting group of young people: those who grew up in the US, are probably pretty darn American-ized, kids who have spent years, maybe even all 12 in the regular school system. I think we need more clear paths to citizenship for folks and this is a good one for some, if they so choose.

 

From what I understand they are granted conditional permanent residency, which would allow one to work while on the path to citizenship.

 

Even without the Dream Act there are a lot of immigrants in the military, which I think is a whole other problem in many ways. The first American soldier to die in Iraq was an undocumented Guatemalan immigrant. Quick google search: http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/gutierrezjose.html ~ There was a documentary made about him which was pretty interesting, that undocumented guys like this can sign up for the military and yeah, be on the front lines, but not be able to go to college or whatever else if they so choose. It's complicated. But I think the Dream Act is a step forward.

 

 


I'd like to know more about this, because state law cannot create or deal with immigration law - immigration which includes Legal Permanent Residency, Citizenship, Tourist Visa's, Work Authorization, etc, is ALL federal law.  State law cannot contradict it, or create ways around it.

 

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That's true. I'm not sure exactly, which is why I wrote "from what I understand" :) Like you said, the CA act can't interfere with immigration status because it is a federal issue. There's an assumption, or maybe stipulation in the act? that the CA Dream Act students are on a pathway to citizenship concurrently. It would be interesting to know if/how status is adjusted at some point to be able to work legally while in school. The federal Dream Act has a part about granting conditional residency. I do my best to understand this stuff but I'm classic mama-brain lately :)


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I'd like to know more about this, because state law cannot create or deal with immigration law - immigration which includes Legal Permanent Residency, Citizenship, Tourist Visa's, Work Authorization, etc, is ALL federal law.  State law cannot contradict it, or create ways around it.

 



I think guatemama might have her DREAM acts a little mixed up.  I don't think the California dream act has to do with obtaining citizenship, but the federal dream act (that didn't pass) would grant citizenship to immigrants who attend college. 

 


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I think guatemama might have her DREAM acts a little mixed up.  I don't think the California dream act has to do with obtaining citizenship, but the federal dream act (that didn't pass) would grant citizenship to immigrants who attend college. 

 


Right, but the Fed dream act won't ever pass (although I wish it would, or some version of it).

 

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for short implications i guess its a good thing. 

 

for long implications its not.

 

undocumented immigrants have been fighting for rights for a long, long, LONG time. esp. from Mexico.

 

i see this as the easiest and least expensive route for CA to say - see we did something. we gave $$$ for education. 

 

the whole politics behind it is really really sad. it is the worst kind of colonialization. what europeans were to the Native Americans, US is to Mexico mainly just coz of the border but to central and south america. what we say is completely the opposite in action.

 

yeah so i see this as oh give a few scraps to the dogs to shut them up. for the dogs - at least they get a few scraps. 

 

so this act - the CA one - is a nice shiny cover with nothing of any real importance inside. 

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#30 of 33 Old 12-09-2011, 10:35 PM
 
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I think guatemama might have her DREAM acts a little mixed up.  I don't think the California dream act has to do with obtaining citizenship, but the federal dream act (that didn't pass) would grant citizenship to immigrants who attend college. 

 

 

 

It does have a little to do with citizenship. The language I read said that the idea is a path to citizenship. I read it in the LA Times. It's not automatic citizenship, just that part of the requirement is they have to prove they are legalizing their status.

I read that here: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/09/local/la-me-brown-dream-act-20111009
 

 


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