petition amazon about childrearing books that advocate abuse - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 8 Old 08-25-2012, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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petition here: http://www.drmomma.org/2011/09/amazon-we-find-child-abuse-offensive.html

so Babywise is a book that i will buy anytime I see it at a secondhand store just so i can put it where it belongs- in the dumpster. I have never come across To Train Up A Child but if I ever do..

I feel that Babywise advocates neglect, both emotional and basic care like appropriately timed feedings. To Train Up A Child (The Pearls) advocates nuggets like these:
Quote:
If your 10-month-old is pitching a fit because he wants to be picked up, then you must reinforce your command with a few stinging swats. .... Tell the baby “No” and give him a swat. If your response is new, he may be offended and scream louder. But continue your normal activities as if you are unaffected. Wait one minute, and then tell the baby to stop crying. If he doesn’t, again swat him on his bare legs... Wait two minutes and repeat. Continue until the baby realizes that this is getting worse not better. Most babies will keep it going for 3 or 4 times and then slide to a sitting position and sob it out.
and

A meter long branch or a belt is recommended for use on an older child and a smaller object on a younger child.

"If you have to sit on him to spank him, do not hesitate... hold the resisting child in a helpless position for several minutes, or until he is totally surrendered."

Michael Pearl says his wife trained their daughter to stop biting during breastfeeding by pulling on her baby's hair. "Understand, the baby is not being punished. Just conditioned."

the petition is just about the Pearls book, not Babywise. It isnt a petition to censor or ban the book, just to ask amazon to stop stocking it per their own policy of not selling books offensive in nature.

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#2 of 8 Old 08-25-2012, 11:40 AM
 
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OMG, that is the most disgusting thing I have ever read. greensad.gif


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#3 of 8 Old 08-25-2012, 06:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadiMamacita View Post

petition here: http://www.drmomma.org/2011/09/amazon-we-find-child-abuse-offensive.html
so Babywise is a book that i will buy anytime I see it at a secondhand store just so i can put it where it belongs- in the dumpster.
 

NICE! I will have to keep that in mind!

 

DH and I had many talks about spanking and other forms of discipline before Jesse was born. I was spanked as a child and my parents were always very calm about it. So I really don't have a negative or abusive experience with spanking.They never used a belt or anything. They never spanked us when they were angry or anything like that and certainly did not do what "To Train Up a Child" advocates. They absolutely did not do any of that stuff! and with my younger brothers they have a COMPLETELY different view on spanking. They used to think that was discipline but they don't believe that is the only or preferred way to discipline now. I don't think they have spanked anyone but me and my next youngest bro. DH however had a much more negative view on spanking based on the way his parents implemented it. I don't want to speak badly about them because they have been so great I just think they have higher expectations of small children than they should, which makes me nervous about the toddler years... but anyway it really opened my eyes to the whole spanking debate. All this being said...

 

I have not heard any good things about that book and isn't that book that people have used to justify beating their kids to death? I thought I heard that on the news a while ago. That, I am sure is only from parents who took what they say too far but still that is just awful. Also who the heck says your child has to be perfectly conditioned??? Way to completely break their individual spirit. I hate that people expect CHILDREN to act like adults! Your kid throws a tantrum? Don't you think it's because he is still learning how to deal with his feeling and needs to be taught how to and not have it spanked out of him??? One of my brothers (4yo) has a very stubborn personality and I don't think my parents could have spanked out his "bad" (immature to our family but bad to outsiders who didn't know the situation) behavior, my mom just pretty much stayed at home with him until he was mature  enough to deal with a public setting. He just couldn't handle it for some reason. Now he has a sweet although extreme personality and I can't imagine how he would be if my parents tried to spank out his "less than ideal" behavior!

 

My son was a persistent bitter while nursing but I fail to see what is adult-like about pulling hair... I never understood why people thought that spanking a child teaches them that you hurt others to get your way. I guess because of the way my parents did it, but after reading what the Pearls say I guess I understand how a child could take it like that. I would like to make sure it is clear that I am not advocating this book or spanking (I despise both of them). I just thought my background was somewhat unique and kind of different from the spanking majority.


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#4 of 8 Old 08-26-2012, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting perspective. My take on spanking is that I would like my child to do what is right because it is right not because they are afraid of the pain of a consequence. I want my kids to love and respect me. And to feel loved and respected. Not to be afraid of me. I don't think using violence against anyone is ok ever.

Yes children have died from both the pearl's book and from babywise.
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#5 of 8 Old 08-26-2012, 10:42 AM
 
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I completely agree, Madi. 


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#6 of 8 Old 08-27-2012, 02:40 PM
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Moving this to Activism where it should get more attention from the community. Give it a few days there and if you feel it's not getting much in Activism please shoot me a PM and I can move it to Gentle Discipline. thumb.gif


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#7 of 8 Old 08-27-2012, 05:38 PM
 
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I agree with you guys. I think it's much better for kids to do what is right because it is right and we are definitely in to gentle discipline for our family. I definitely wasn't trying to argue with that. Both books break my heart that people would do that to their children. I didn't know babies had died from Babywise, sadly I am not surprised though. I read an article about how harmful CIO is and one of the women who commented on it said she let her baby cry for 5 hours and he (or she Idr) vomited and had a nose bleed by the time she went to him. How the hell is that not abuse?!?!?! I don't think she tried to do it again but still... That just KILLS me... I can't imagine doing that to my son, he is still not sleeping through the night but it really doesn't bother me... I guess it helps to know that he isn't manipulating me (cause he's a BABY)!

 

Too bad Babywise isn't part of the petition...


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#8 of 8 Old 08-27-2012, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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the babywise deaths i have heard about were from the rigid feeding schedules- dehydration and failure to thrive. http://www.drmomma.org/2009/12/babywise-linked-to-babies-dehydration.html

baby cio for 5 hours puking and bleeding makes me sick. poor baby greensad.gif

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