Whipping babies - Mothering Forums

Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
lovemybaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am an attachment parent, homeschooling my daughter and very interested in what is going on with homeschooling. I received a magazine last week, Home School Digest, that truly shocked me. I knew this magazine always had ads for whips to beat babies and young children (see http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org...uct-review.jpg ) and this ad was again in this latest issue I just received. The articles in this latest issue were really scary; there were 3 of them that encouraged parents to whip babies and young children and even gave instructions on how to do it.

This magazine is being offered by HSLDA (Home School Legal Defense Association) with a 44% discount - see:
http://www.homeschoolfoundation.org/...es%3AMagazines

I am appalled that HSLDA is doing this!! No baby or young child should be whipped, and parents should not be encouraged to whip their babies!! Please take a moment to complain to HSLDA using their feedback form:
https://secure.hslda.org/hslda/feedback.asp

Thank you everyone for caring about children! BTW, Parenting in Jesus Footsteps is a site that is definitely AGAINST all hitting of babies/children. They even have a petition to sign against corporal punishment of kids http://www.parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/petition.html And here's a new petition specifically against "The Rod" http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/petition-2.html
lovemybaby is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 01:27 PM
 
EFmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,800
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is one of the sickest things I have ever seen. And the idea that people could possibly think that Jesus would want them to torture their children leaves me speechless.
EFmom is offline  
#3 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 02:30 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
This is beyond Ezzo.
Greaseball is offline  
 
#4 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 02:40 PM
 
calgal007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I especially like the way the handle is cushioned, so as to be comfortable for the person using it to beat their child. I'm sure it's exactly the kind of thing Jesus would use. . .
calgal007 is offline  
#5 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 02:42 PM
Banned
 
PurpleBasil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Whoa.

The HSLDA has some major problems (anti gay, militant Christian, etc.). I am floored.

I will write to them. But I would bet nothing changes, sadly. HSLDA probably isn't going to start drawing lines in the sand between corporal punishment and whipping.

AND, that Digest features articles from Dobson, the Pearls, and Jeb Bush so that rod advert is right in step with these people.
PurpleBasil is offline  
#6 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 02:51 PM
 
mammastar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh my word. That is beyond appalling.

I wonder if they have any Canadian subscribers? If they do, they need to be aware that hitting a child using any object is criminal assault in Canada. Not that they care, probably: sounds like they have a serious dose of self-righteousness to gird themselves against criticism.
mammastar is offline  
#7 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 02:52 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
I'm sad to see John Taylor Gatto's name on the list. I think these religious wackos give homeschooling a bad name; why would Gatto want to be associated with them?
Greaseball is offline  
#8 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 03:16 PM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 6,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



my gracious goddess. this is so far beyond appalling i am literally feeling sick.
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#9 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 03:26 PM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 6,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
message sent ~

I was appalled to see in the latest issue of a magazine your organization endorses that not only were there advertisements for whips meant for whipping children (quote from an ad: "... Rods are for chastening"), but there were also three articles in the magazine that encourage parents to whip or beat their children. This is unacceptable. No baby or young child should be whipped or beaten ~ NO child should be beaten, EVER ~ and your organization should not endorse a publication which encourages this atrocious behaviour.
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#10 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 03:59 PM
 
pilesoflaundry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: getting comfy again
Posts: 8,925
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
On another board I actually saw someone posting about wanting one of those 'rods' in the article and offering it as a discipline tool to another mom with a troubled (her words) toddler. :Puke that is horrendus and awful and I said so.
pilesoflaundry is offline  
#11 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 04:19 PM
 
layla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wrote them and told them they were pawns of the devil!:LOL I figure if they have this religious righteousness going on, I should put it in terms they can understand! Freakin' aweful people!
layla is offline  
#12 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 06:09 PM
 
Boobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,710
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Complaint sent!

How can people be so cruel and ignorant? Things like this I just can't understand. Jesus would have never ever beat a child.
Boobs is offline  
#13 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 06:12 PM
pie
 
pie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ojai
Posts: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


do some christians really believe that following in jesus footsteps involves

BEATING CHILDREN AND BABIES???

Oh yeah wwjd, beat kids? uh huh yeah right. I am so pissed off.
pie is offline  
#14 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 06:17 PM
 
cappuccinosmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SW Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would be horrified too if they advocated whipping or beating babies. Any sane person would. But as far as I can see, they don't (neither do the Pearl's).

There is a difference (at least in thier minds) between violent, angry beating and "chastening" as they put it. There is also a difference between "baby" and "child", namely, age and maturity.

I know better than to advocate spanking here on MDC. But what about relating things as they actually are, instead of using more inflamatory phrasing? I know there won't be any problem getter support against HSDL and spanking-advocates even if you posted word for word.
cappuccinosmom is offline  
#15 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 06:21 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
I would be horrified too if they advocated whipping or beating babies. Any sane person would. But as far as I can see, they don't (neither do the Pearl's).
I've read stuff from the Pearls that advocates spanking babies as young as 6 weeks. (Though I guess not literally "whipping" them.) Still horrible IMO. Even Ezzo waits until 6 months!
Greaseball is offline  
#16 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 06:32 PM
 
DreamsInDigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I feel so sorry for the children whose parents think that's a great tool for teaching them how to behave.
DreamsInDigital is offline  
#17 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 06:42 PM
Banned
 
PurpleBasil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by cappuccinosmom
There is a difference (at least in thier minds) between violent, angry beating and "chastening" as they put it. There is also a difference between "baby" and "child", namely, age and maturity.
How do you 'chasten' using the specific 'rod'? Help us understand, since you bring up the difference (in their minds which you seem to comprehend).

I already said that nothing will change in this situation as the HSLDA isn't going to draw up a chart showing where spanking becomes whipping and chastening becomes illegal abuse. They leave that up to the rod holder who owns their children sent from God.

But please, do help us understand what is involved in a 'chastening' with that specific rod in the advert. Because the Lord chastens those whom he loves.
PurpleBasil is offline  
#18 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 06:43 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
I have a feeling that if this "chastening" were done to an adult, it would be illegal. It's only OK to chasten defenseless children.:
Greaseball is offline  
#19 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 06:47 PM
Banned
 
PurpleBasil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it would be okay in those advertisers minds (and authors) to chasten pets, too.

Where does the chastening occur on the body, cappucinosmom? I forgot to ask that, sorry. When I look at the advert for the rod, it is so long, I'd have to stand way back to get a good swing.

They do include a 'safety tip', btw. Probably the usual eye injury warning. Can't be 'ages 3 and up'.
PurpleBasil is offline  
#20 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 06:51 PM
 
sofiabugmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Posts: 786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quoting the ad ...

"The ideal tool for child training"



Training a child to be what? Terrified of his or her parents?

Oh, and check out the smiley face right before "RODS are for chastening." Yea, the idea of hitting a child puts a grin right on me.

This is just sick, sick, sick.

Best to all,

JA
sofiabugmom is offline  
#21 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 07:05 PM
 
Unreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 2,294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't understand how it can be legal to advertise a product such as the rod.
It is not only condoning agressive/abusive behavior towards children--it is openly encouraging it
:Puke

I'm pretty much against censorship--until it comes to ads (is that considered censorship when you want to restrict advertising? )

I used to babysit for a family that insisted I "use the spoon" on their boys. I thought they were joking, until one day it came up in conversation with the kids and I asked if it was for real and they said yes
I *never* once in ALL the time I spent with them EVER saw the need to do more than tell them "That isn't okay--why don't we go do ____ instead"
Poor kids

mom to three boys:  reading.gif(18 bigeyes.giffencing.gif(10&7)
Unreal is offline  
#22 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 07:08 PM
 
moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by cappuccinosmom
I would be horrified too if they advocated whipping or beating babies. Any sane person would. But as far as I can see, they don't (neither do the Pearl's).

There is a difference (at least in thier minds) between violent, angry beating and "chastening" as they put it. There is also a difference between "baby" and "child", namely, age and maturity.

I know better than to advocate spanking here on MDC. But what about relating things as they actually are, instead of using more inflamatory phrasing? I know there won't be any problem getter support against HSDL and spanking-advocates even if you posted word for word.
Do you advocate spanking?

heartbeat.gif

moss is offline  
#23 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 07:09 PM
 
cappuccinosmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SW Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
>But please, do help us understand what is involved in a 'chastening' with that specific rod in the advert. Because the Lord chastens those whom he loves.

From what I have read, "chastening" is for the purpose of correcting rebellion. That particular viewpoint holds that parents have such authority over thier children. They believe that authority gives the right of correction. God has authority over His children. His chastening is not always comfortable--sometimes He has to use discomfort to us in order for us to grow. The government has authority over it's subjects. They use that authority to "chasten" law-breakers. Not comfortable either. The Pearl's and others (I wouldn't include Ezzo's at all--they come from a totally different perspective, and having read *all* the Pearl's stuff, I saw that they *discouraged* switching babies and always have said that frequent switching is a sign that the parents are doing something wrong ) see nothing wrong with making sure that rebellion results in physical discomfort. Generally using the rod in a place on the body that doesn't do lasting damage but stings a little (calves or back of the hand). Having been "chastened" as a child I know it is not always a matter of releasing parental frustration, or angry punishment. Some parents actually want to raise well-tempered and obedient children and believe that this is the best way to do it.

I really don't mind the anti-spanking argument. Semantics are important though. "Whipping babies" gives a mental image of an angry, red-faced parent raising their arm again and again againgst a tiny, helpless, uncomprehending infant. I have never met any devout Christian who does that, though they may see spanking children as ok.
cappuccinosmom is offline  
#24 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 07:11 PM
 
cappuccinosmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SW Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
>Do you advocate spanking?

Let's just say I don't militate for or against it.
cappuccinosmom is offline  
#25 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 07:15 PM
Banned
 
PurpleBasil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you, cappucinosmom for explaining yourself further. I do appreciate it!

The Pearls get no points from me for 'discouraging switching of babies' and saying that 'frequent switching' indicates a parent in error. It is ghastly.
PurpleBasil is offline  
#26 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 07:16 PM
 
moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by cappuccinosmom
>Do you advocate spanking?

Let's just say I don't militate for or against it.
Quote:
Originally posted by cappuccinosmom
>But please, do help us understand what is involved in a 'chastening' with that specific rod in the advert. Because the Lord chastens those whom he loves.

From what I have read, "chastening" is for the purpose of correcting rebellion. That particular viewpoint holds that parents have such authority over thier children. They believe that authority gives the right of correction. God has authority over His children. His chastening is not always comfortable--sometimes He has to use discomfort to us in order for us to grow. The government has authority over it's subjects. They use that authority to "chasten" law-breakers. Not comfortable either. The Pearl's and others (I wouldn't include Ezzo's at all--they come from a totally different perspective, and having read *all* the Pearl's stuff, I saw that they *discouraged* switching babies and always have said that frequent switching is a sign that the parents are doing something wrong ) see nothing wrong with making sure that rebellion results in physical discomfort. Generally using the rod in a place on the body that doesn't do lasting damage but stings a little (calves or back of the hand). Having been "chastened" as a child I know it is not always a matter of releasing parental frustration, or angry punishment. Some parents actually want to raise well-tempered and obedient children and believe that this is the best way to do it.

I really don't mind the anti-spanking argument. Semantics are important though. "Whipping babies" gives a mental image of an angry, red-faced parent raising their arm again and again againgst a tiny, helpless, uncomprehending infant. I have never met any devout Christian who does that, though they may see spanking children as ok.


I feel very sad for any children that are treated like that

heartbeat.gif

moss is offline  
#27 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 07:20 PM
Banned
 
PurpleBasil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yeah, but, moss, the Christian Bible says that everyone gets it from God (chastening) if He loves them so who can then tell a parent not to do something that God does AND they are receiving from God? If one is chastened, one is gonna chasten. That's how the cycle continues.

Sorry this is so derailed but honestly, it is good to know where people stand.

And I wrote the HSLDA. Not that they will give a damn.
PurpleBasil is offline  
#28 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 08:10 PM
 
Greaseball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 8,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Why should a baby be chastened for rebelling? What exactly is so wrong with a baby who doesn't feel the need to do every stupid thing his parents tell him to do?

I want to raise a NORMAL child. Normal children sometimes rebel. Oh, and I still love them.:
Greaseball is offline  
#29 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 08:17 PM
pie
 
pie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ojai
Posts: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:

why the smile? You don't militate for or against it? What does that mean? You don't think hitting a baby with a rod is bad news? I am assuming the red heart on the baby butt in your sig isn't something you'd like to be viewed as a target.
pie is offline  
#30 of 375 Old 04-22-2004, 08:22 PM
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,056
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Greaseball
Why should a baby be chastened for rebelling? What exactly is so wrong with a baby who doesn't feel the need to do every stupid thing his parents tell him to do?
The lemming-training begins early amongst these types, I guess. Gotta get 'em to fall into line quickly, don't ya know, lest they think for themselves.
Pepper is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 10,532

13 members and 10,519 guests
Deborah , healthy momma , hillymum , jamesmorrow , KangaRu , manyhatsmom , MarylandMommy , Motherof3already , Springshowers , TeggyBrandon , transpecos , transylvania_mom
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.