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Down on AP (and very suspicious)

8K views 123 replies 32 participants last post by  sewchris2642 
#1 · (Edited)
I have two children who are just under 2 years apart, the oldest being 2.5. When my son was first born i was pretty hardcore AP. I wore him ALL the time, cloth diapered, nursed on demand (happily so), etc... When I went back to work when he was 16 weeks I'd rush home during my lunch break to bf and care for him, rush back to work, then back home to bf him again. I think I was pretty hardcore. I judged moms who could but didn't bf, I judged those who used disposable diapers, I judged women for using a stroller. I was a bit judgy. Then, with my second I started to think really critically about AP. I started to wonder about all the expectations that are put on mothers now days. The more i thought about it, and the more i looked into it, the more i started to believe that AP is really a theory that values a highly traditional view of what a mother's role should be - a role that also is not reconcilable with working outside the home. And then i started to think it's okay to use a stroller, and to baby wear. I decided F- it, I have two children under three and i work two very demanding jobs, my husband also works a very demanding job, I'm NOT spending more of my precious weekend time doing laundry. We now use earth friendly disposables. I decided immediately that there was no way in hell i was running home during my lunch hour to bf, instead dd got bottles (of bm of course, but still). I'm small and my children are heavy and I heard another woman who was fed up with carrying say that she got a stroller to save her back and I looked at her with such envy, then started using my stroller a lot more. My back is important too. Then, when dd stopped sleeping during the night i did something i thought i'd never do and I started ferberizing her, using the actual Ferber schedule, which was so much more humane than i previously believed. Now I'm so much more free as a mother. Sometimes I get upset, and that's ok. Do I have to be super happy and have a plastic facade all the time too for the sake of my children? Sometimes life is hard. Sometimes I have to tell my son "no" in a firm way, and just pull pure rank, refuse to reason. And now, after all these months I'm pretty sure that both of my kids are going to turn out awesome. And, I'm pretty sure that we women are more oppressed than we like to think. My counselor said when she had babies the mothers would just sit outside the bedroom while they cried themselves to sleep with a glass of wine and a book. Maybe that's too extreme one way, but it seems as though we've gone too far the other way. Where now, instead of "children are to be seen not heard", it seems that it's "mothers are to be seen not heard". By which I mean that there doesn't seem to be a lot of room for our needs to come into consideration anywhere. For us to say, my need for sleep is important, I am important. My baby may be more important, but i'm important too. I feel so sorry for our generation of mothers. And I hope it's so much better for my daughter. I'm sure it will be. If we know anything its that ideas about parenting are generational. What will our children think of our approach when they have children?
 
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#3 ·
I'm sorry you've had such a negative experience. Are you looking for a discussion of AP practices and the oppression of women or are you just venting? :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for responding.

I would totally like to see if other mothers think that AP is oppressive, especially wohm. I don't know, I find it v confusing because on the one hand it seems like feminism to say this is what mothers do and doing it is awesome (carrying, responding to cries, etc..) but on the other hand it seems really to promote this puritanical (?) view of mothers that's very traditional. But maybe not?

I think some parts of AP are awesome, like responding to baby, baby wearing, - really all of it i guess. I just personally think those goals have to be weighed against other factors - like mom needing to sleep and mom not wanting to have a bad back later. I guess that's where it's weird for me too - like it doesn't seem to think a mother's needs are important.

I don't know. I think, like I said, as a woman who recently returned to work with 2 very littles i feel excluded from being an AP parent.
 
#4 ·
I didn't realize there were "rules". My husband and I wanted to have our kids with us most of the time, and for the first six years we were able to do this, with each of us working half time. We had a stroller...both we and baby seemed to like it better than the front pouch. We also had a couple of baby backpacks that worked well. After the first 8 months or so of being waked up for nighttime feedings, we put junior in bed with us...the second was in our bed from the beginning. A lot easier. We used cloth diapers...easy with a washer. I expressed milk at work, for freezing for the next day. A baby is a baby, with its little baby needs, for a very short while. (It seems like a lot longer when it's happening, but it is no time at all in the long run.)

Best,
Deborah
 
#6 · (Edited)
Oh I can't agree with you more, Linda On The Move

We have to do what works for us, and living up to an image isn't healthy..whether the image is self-imposed or put on us by anyone else.

Being a parent is hard work, and when marriage is second to children, things are simply out of whack. I am glad our children see their dad and I as united and best friends and still very much in love. There is no greater security for them, in that.

I am AP in many ways, because I believe I am blessed with children, and their needs are very important. There are many AP things I do not practice, either. I don't really pass judgement on parents, because a) I don't have time for that, b) We all have to raise our children the way we see fit. I really thought I knew it all before I was a parent! The proof is in the "pudding" however, and being complimented and asked for advice, due to older children that are somehow remarkable because they are respectful of others/responsible/thoughtful, is more telling than any parenting-isms that we strive to live up to.

It seems guilt can run the show in a lot of ways, and that can't be a legacy we intentionally leave.
 
#8 ·
We have to do what works for us, and living up to an image isn't healthy..whether the image is self-imposed or put on us by anyone else.
I was never trying to live up to an image. I was trying to change very deep family patterns. And I did.

My regret is that I did it at my own expense. I didn't understand that there was another option, a way to truly be a good mother while still taking care of myself. I really didn't understand that it is possible to have balance.

Honestly, even today if I had to choose what was best for my kids or what is best for myself, I would always pick what is best for my kids. That's just out it is. The problem is that I thought that is what I was doing when in reality, it wasn't so. My kids would have been fine eitherway. I could have had a greater degree of balance the whole time AND STILL HAVE BEEN A GREAT MOTHER.

Oh well, at least I changed the pattern. And I don't think they will make the same mistake -- they turned out pretty balanced.
 
#7 ·
I struggle with this too sometimes. While a lot of my instincts are toward AP, I can't do it all, all the time. So, I do the best I can. I cosleep with DS out of necessity for everyone to sleep. I wear him bc he prefers it, but have no qualms about stuffing both kiddos in the jogging stroller so I can get some exercise (& thus feel better/ be refreshed). He is nursed whenever he wants but does get about 4 bottles per week for the 2 days I work (I just cut down the # of days I work). I do run over and feed him at lunch, but that's more for me so I don't have to pump more than 3 times per day!
But, I think your bigger point is spot on and heard loud and clear. The expectations are crazy on our generation (as I'm sure all generations in the past feel). We are expected to go to college, possibly grad school and/or professional school, then work (to pay off the student loans incurred). Once we decide to start a family, then the expectations include not only working, but cooking (from scratch), keeping house, being a good partner, a good parent who does it all "right". I know some of these expectations are self imposed, or from mommy guilt....but the bottom line is that it is there.
I was actually having a similar conversation with my grandma. She confirmed that in her opinion it's a lot harder on our generation. She said that we have a lot more to worry about and "the damn internet doesn't help matters". I guess bottom line is that we can only do our best...
 
#9 ·
I personally feel that AP is instinctive parenting and doing what is best for the child by following their needs not doing what society tells us to do. Some babies need more attachment than others. Some babies want to comfort nurse, some dont. Some need the closeness of cosleeping, some don't. I judge, It's true but I judge people for selfishness, not for doing all things AP because the fact is every baby is different
 
#10 ·
So true. Some of my babies have been quite independent from a very early age, and recoil from quite young, against "too much" closeness, if that makes sense.

They are all individuals, and following their needs is what is really important. I think that the definitions sort of what are the problem here. AP is associated with a list of "do's" and "don'ts" and if a mother truly believes in AP, but doesn't necessarily follow the list, she can feel that she is failing the labels.

Instinct parenting maybe is a better term! :)

Linda On The Move,

It makes sense you'd go the distance to change your family pattern...and how that could have brought you difficulty not feeling like you could relax with it at all. Balance is so important, and it can sure take a long while to realize that in practice.

Blessings!
 
#13 ·
The things you're describing,OP, are things that have never seemed to me to be not-AP. Strollers, balancing work and breastfeeding...I think AP is about attachment as in whether or not you're fostering an emotional connection, not as in physical attachment via a baby carrier. If you're connecting without some of the trappings that are right of as AP, then that sounds reasonable.
Although I will say that my current knowledge of Ferberizing doesn't allow for it to be in that category.
 
#14 ·
I also wanted to add that I totally feel the struggle of working out of the home and trying to balance expectations, roles, and duties.

It's just that, to me, it's not AP stuff that bothers me. The things that I think are holding me back from peace and happiness are things like work, and other things that keep my attention off of my family. I understand that's just the emotional component of it and not the practicalities like finances. But in my world I don't view AP and the ideals associated with it as the enemy.

As far as becoming less judgey and simplifying things after having more than one kid...happened to me too. I'm ok with some things not being ideal, or different but just as good. Like the plastic diapers- whatever let's me be a better mom. Isn't it kind of AP to see that you're spending more time with your kids instead of that laundry?
 
#15 ·
This is such a great discussion.

I agree with she who said that a healthy amount of selfishness for mom is a good thing. That's what i want to be able to celebrate - my life, me being alive. I want to remain a spiritual being and not have motherhood "swallow me whole".

Also, I do wonder if our generation has it harder than the previous ones. I suspect we do. My mom could choose to stay home or work, with little fanfare. Neither of my parents had student loans. They owned a house when they were in their twenties and had us at that time too. It does seem so different now. With the amount I work i often wonder if this isn't how much the pioneers worked, and homesteaders. When I think about it really the 50s and 60s were the anomaly, and now this is a return to normalcy where women are worked to the bone with little reward and less recognition.

I have a friend who said she sent her children to stay with the grandparents who weren't very fun so that her and her husband could go on a fun vacation and be alone for a while. Then she said "sometimes you have to throw your kids under the bus" (metaphorically obviously). That comment rang through my mind so many times over the past few weeks. I wonder if she's right. Sometimes is it okay as mothers to be selfish? Obviously I don't mean making decisions that would harm the children, just making decisions that clearly prioritize the mother's needs/wants ahead of the child's. Any theory that says that a woman can never prioritize her own needs makes me uncomfortable (especially when it's started by a man!)
 
#17 ·
Also, I do wonder if our generation has it harder than the previous ones. I suspect we do. My mom could choose to stay home or work, with little fanfare. Neither of my parents had student loans. They owned a house when they were in their twenties and had us at that time too. It does seem so different now.
I was reading something yesterday about how much debt has increased in the last 20 years, and a big chunk of it is school debt. The article was focused on things that "middle class" people used to be able to afford, that now they can't. (like vacations, a new car, and even health care).

I also think that in some ways the internet and social media makes things worse. I think it is too easy for people to present an idealized view of their lives which then other people compare their actual lives too and feel inferior.
 
#16 ·
I think that a mom prioritizing her needs above others occasionally is actually looking out for her children. If getting done time to yourself makes you a better mom, then that's what you should do, right? It may be a choice that isn't awesome for the kids in that moment, but it's what makes for a happier family overall.
 
#20 ·
AP isn't a set of rules.
Attachment Parenting is an approach, rather than a strict set of rules

It's actually the style that many parents use instinctively. Parenting is too individual and baby too complex for there to be only one way. The important point is to get connected to your baby, and the baby B's of attachment parenting help. Once connected, stick with what is working and modify what is not. You will ultimately develop your own parenting style that helps parent and baby find a way to fit - the little word that so economically describes the relationship between parent and baby.

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/parenting/attachment-parenting/attachment-parenting-babies

It seems to me that a lot of mothers who post about AP forget about Dr. Sears 7th point: Balance. And that using AP is a lot different between having only one child and have two or more children, especially if they are close in age. It's about knowing your child. I did what was best for each of my children, listening and responding to each of their needs whether it was sleeping in our bed or in their own bedroom. Being a stay at home mom or a working mom and using daycare. Going to art museums or historical re enactments. Home school or public school. I breastfed, used cloth diapers, and made my own baby food because I wanted to. Not because some parenting philosophy told me to. I carried my children and used strollers. Sometimes at the same time. Do what you need to and have to to raise your children. And remember, you are not raising children, you are raising future adults. Never lose sight of the goal of parenting.
 
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#21 ·
Personally, I don't think AP is the problem. I think there are two other cultural issues that are much more problematic:

- the myth that we as women have to do it all. In most cultures around the world, women have practical support. A woman is not expected to be the one earning an income, doing the childcare, cooking, cleaning, driving everyone around, etc. I've lived in several different countries where having full time help is the norm - maids, nannies, cooks, etc. As an American, I resisted this at first because of feeling like I "should" be able to handle everything by myself. I had a "aha moment" when we were heading to my father in law's funeral with two young kids - my colleagues in Uganda insisted I bring my child care worker to Kenya with me. At first I was insulted, thinking that I am perfectly capable of handling my children by myself. But in their mind, the issue wasn't that I couldn't handle it by myself, it was that I shouldn't have to. In this emotional draining time for my husband I should be available to support him and be by his side and not have to worry about chasing my children around. I have come to deeply appreciate the help that I have available in this season of my life - we have a full time worker who cleans the house, does laundry, and helps with the cooking, and we have a part time childcare worker for when I am in the office (I work about 20 hrs/week). in the part of the world I live in now, this is the norm for mothers, and not just wealthy ones.

- the lack of support in the corporate world for working mothers. If we could have maternity leaves that were at least 6 months, even better 12 months like Canada or 1-3 years like most European countries, it would be much easier to balance career and family and not feel like we had to choose either a career or being an AP mom. I recently read about a country (I forget which one!) where the majority of women worked 25 hour weeks. Working 40+ hours a week with a baby must be exhausting - it makes me angry that for many women that is their only option if they want to continue with their careers. If we could have more part time options and more flexible options it would be much easier to feel that we didn't have to choose between our needs and our children's needs, and that we could effectively meet them both.

And then when we struggle - we blame ourselves by feeling like we are being selfish and we can't keep our needs and our children's needs in balance, when really there are larger cultural and societal issues that are pushing us where we are and making us feel like we have to choose.
 
#22 ·
I've read several "AP ruined me" articles recently and agree with commentors who say that it's a lack of balance that causes this kind of backlash - not the fundamentals of AP itself. But it's interesting to hear someone here (Linda I think?) saying that it's hard to find balance and parent "instinctively" when you have no positive frame of reference from your own childhood. I never really thought of that.

I'm a WOHM and, while I really don't feel the need to label my parenting style, AP would be the most appropriate term for how I have raised my baby so far (13 months old). I feel I've fallen into a healthy groove for the most part, and I think it's possible to be very "AP" while still working outside the home, without losing yourself.

Maybe I'm just lucky in my circumstances. I had 3 months of maternity leave, and then DH stayed home with baby since he works weekend nights. Having him be there for her made it much easier for me to leave her. Putting her in day care so young would have been hard for me, but I think I would have gotten over it. I BF on demand, including frequent overnight feeding for 10 LONG months of absolutely brutal night-waking sometimes as often as every 30-45 mins (more commonly every 1-1.5 hours). Bed-sharing allowed me to survive and function, and we still do it, though she’s down to more like 2-3 wakings a night now.

I cloth-diapered for a couple months until I went back to work, and DH refused to participate. Oh well. I mean, I'm pretty sure cloth-diapering is not an AP principle - it's just something "natural-minded" people do. Using disposables does not make you less responsive to baby's needs. I babywore some – especially to get her to sleep at times, or if we were out shopping – but not much overall.

I pumped three times a day for 10 months and have just stopped recently. I get up at 4:45 in the morning so I can get to work early and get home early to see my baby. I have never yet been away from her for an evening (actually tonight will be the first time I go “out” for a night with friends!).

The only decision I have truly struggled with was regarding what to do about her sleep. Being surrounded by moms who sleep-trained and had babies sleeping 12 hours straight I was very very bitter and had my moments of door-slamming rage at the injustice. But I must be lucky to be able to function pretty well with broken sleep because I never truly felt like I was going to lose it from exhaustion – it was more just anger about the demands of dealing with her night-time needs. Excessive crying was something I just couldn’t handle, and the few sleep “coaching” attempts we made we largely failures.

I do come from a solid family background with good role models. Dad worked a traditional job. Mom was a stay at home for a good few years, but started part-time and then full-time work when I was in school (I was the youngest of four).

Maybe it helps that I’m a hermit by nature and I mostly just want to be home with my husband and baby. I only crave outside contact occasionally. Someone who is more social would probably chafe under the kind of schedule I keep.

I’ve also sacrificed exercise – really don’t get any in. That’s something I want to work on soon.

Anyway, that’s a long-winded way of saying I don’t feel oppressed or forced into a mold by AP principles. Things like BF and bedsharing have helped me maintain a positive connection with my baby despite me being gone for work. I always thought I would be a SAHM, but I’m not, and I’m pretty comfortable with the balance in our family.
 
#23 ·
I hear you all. Having two very spirited littles, life is exhausting. Don't really have much to say except I feel that I have to bend in the wind and when I'm having a bad day at home w them or whatever, I have to remind myself that they will never be this young again. They're needy but I'm doing what my instincts tell me. And to the poster that said that some folks' instincts may be to bash their kids' heads against the wall, I disagree. An emotional/rage issue that needs some attention shouldn't be mistaken for instinct, IMO.
 
#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
Attachment parenting - show me the data!

I think the issue of whether attachment parenting is too much for women and necessary for the well being of children is a very important one. I just published a book about work family balance called Balancing the Big Stuff: Finding Happiness in Work, Family and Life. In it, there is a thorough literature review on attachment parenting practices so parents can make informed decisions about how they want to parent. The research shows, in general, that while there is nothing wrong with attachment parenting and if it works for parents, that is great, there are no clear benefits to parenting in such an intensive way either.

[Admin note: edited to move promotional link]
 
#25 · (Edited)
it is so hard to try to balance the needs of your kids and the obligations at work. it makes sense to feel, sometimes, like "something's gotta give", because working mommas are stretched too thin. and it makes me feel sad knowing how many women feel they have to choose between being ideal parents and being good employees. but i think that it is not the child's needs that are oppressive to women. it is the inflexibility of the working world.

if having children were just a fun hobby, an optional thing that a few people were into for their own sake, that would be one thing. but as a country we need more children to continuously be born and become healthy, contributing members to society (even if not as many as some people are having). given this is a collective need, a collective good, we should have designed our world to support this need.

instead, it's rare to find a workplace with rooms for pumping breast milk and the permission to go pump every few hours. people are still quick to criticize the parent who puts their family first. we haven't become collectively tolerant of women needing to come in late or take days off sometimes because of lack of sleep or a sick baby. people routinely try to justify men getting paid more for the same job because mothers' additional obligations, as if those women were choosing to prioritize some hobby over their career, instead of acknowledging how equally important that job is that's invisible to us, that she does all the rest of her hours, at home—raising healthy children.

raising healthy children should be an enthusiastic joy shared by all society's members. instead, we are often made to feel burdened and apologetic. AP simply describes what is best for the child, while society largely ignores this and continues designing lifestyles that are best for corporate success rather than something as intangible as optimally healthy children.

i think it's an important part of feminism for women to be able to choose important careers, and equally important for women to be able to choose the things that are best for their children. and to be able to balance both without being made to feel guilty. but i think it's reasonable that all of us, collectively, ask the workplace to be a little more flexible and patient, because asking that of the small children we love, instead, is not my idea of a society that values women and women's roles.

asking women to BE men in order to earn the same respect and career success, in order to have the fact of our equally capable intelligence recognized, this is not feminism, not by a long shot.

(and don't even get me started on the fact that we should be asking more flexibility from workplaces for fathers' roles in their kids' lives, too. AP, outside of breastfeeding, should come from both parents, of course.)
 
#27 ·
it makes sense to feel, sometimes, like "something's gotta give", because working mommas are stretched too thin. and it makes me feel sad knowing how many women feel they have to choose between being ideal parents and being good employees. but i think that it is not the child's needs that are oppressive to women. it is the inflexibility of the working world.

[...]

we haven't become collectively tolerant of women needing to come in late or take days off sometimes because of lack of sleep or a sick baby. people routinely try to justify men getting paid more for the same job because mothers' additional obligations, as if those women were choosing to prioritize some hobby over their career, instead of acknowledging how equally important that job is that's invisible to us, that she does all the rest of her hours, at home-raising healthy children.
OK, the only problem I have with this (and I do think you make some good points) is that we shouldn't even be needing to think in terms of 'mothers' additional obligations', or 'women needing to come in late' or 'working mommas being stretched too thin', because the burden of taking care of children should NOT BE FALLING ON WOMEN JUST BY VIRTUE OF US BEING WOMEN. We should be thinking in terms of the fact that parents have additional obligations, parents may sometimes need to work different hours, parents have to do these things. And that means fathers as well as mothers. Mothers are the only ones who can breastfeed and are also the ones who need to recover from giving birth when a child comes into the family by birth rather than adoption, so, yes, there do need to be allowances made for that. Other than that - we shouldn't be working towards a world where mothers are given more flexibility about combining work and family life, but a world where parents are given that flexibility, regardless of their gender.

(Actually, it goes even further than that - carers in general should have that flexibility. There's no reason why having the responsibility of caring for an elderly parent or disabled sibling should be less important than having the responsibility of caring for offspring.)
 
#26 ·
Interesting debate. I think a great deal depends on whether we're looking at AP as it was originally conceived by Sears, or as it's evolved since then.


Sears, of course, was a working man who had a wife who was (as far as we know) perfectly willing to be a full-time caretaker for the children. And, to be fair to him, he does seem to have been very happy to do his share when he was home (to an extent which may well have been fairly groundbreaking at the time, because I have the feeling his oldest children were born in the 70s) – but it was more as a 'Sure, once I'm finished with my job and have come home I'll be happy to hold the baby for you' that was never going to create any conflict with his career.


So I think it was quite easy for him to get all gung-ho about 'Wahey! All this stuff about breastfeeding through all difficulties/never giving any of that nasty formula stuff/letting children self-wean when they're ready/carrying the baby everywhere sounds wonderful! Let's talk about how parents (read: mothers) should do all that wonderful stuff!' without ever thinking critically about how much (if any) benefit there might be for any of those practices and how that actually stacked up against the possible difficulties/drawbacks in terms of this actually being something worthwhile.


Since then, the AP movement has definitely tried to shift focus. I remember that about 9 – 10 years ago, when I was first reading the AP principles, there was a separate set for babies listing breastfeeding, babywearing, and co-sleeping as part of the principles. It wasn't a 'you have to do things exactly this way to be AP', or anything, but it did get more specific about particular practices than is currently the case. Some time in the next few years, that separate list was dropped and now they just use the same list for all age groups, with more general wording such as 'Feed with love and respect' and 'Ensure safe sleep physically and emotionally'. So I do think they're at least trying to move away from specific practices and towards a general approach.


Individual members of AP obviously vary. There are a lot of posts out there about how AP isn't really about any specific practices, it's a state of mind, blah blah blah. There are also a lot of 'What is AP?' posts that do focus a lot on the extended breastfeeding/self-weaning/babywearing/co-sleeping part of it. That is where AP started out, and the assumption that AP-ers are going to default to those practices is very ingrained within AP. At the same time, there is an understanding that they don't have to be the default practices, that they aren't right for everyone.


While I'm not personally comfortable with considering myself part of the AP movement, for that and other reasons, that's purely a matter of how I feel – I know I've got the option of considering myself a part of it, and I don't think there's anything inherently contradictory in considering yourself as AP and feminist and/or WOHM. I think that AP has had (and continues to have) problems with ingrained assumptions about the role of women as mothers, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's any worse on that score than anything else in today's society (for what that's worth!) and so I don't think I'd condemn AP on those grounds.


Wow, that was longer than I intended. Hope it made some sense.
 
#28 ·
Subbling because this is the sort of parenting discussion that I enjoy. Also chiming in that respect for self and a balanced, fulfilled, joyful life for the parent is as important as anything else. We are raising children with this goal, no? We need to model this to the best of our ability.
 
#29 ·
You are looking at it as if it were an outside system imposed upon you without your consent.
Its not. Its research and experienced parents writing books and articles about parenting practices that conform to the ultimate value of responding to your child's needs, while also mantaining family balance.
If you choose that as a value, then go for it.

I find it oppressive that women are systematically forced to separate from their children all the time. Or are led to believe that forced weaning and sleeping training are the norm and necessary.

I think what is oppressive, is the expectation you had of yourself. The judgmental attitude you had towards other mothers was placed upon yourself, and now is shifted to AP. Maybe you need to relax the judgment?

I agree with you, that the expecation of AP practises, whether other imposed or self imposed (in my case, they are wholly self imposed), pose a problem when it comes to participating fully in the workforce, and fulfilling some traditional feminist goals.

Thats a dilemma that hasnt been discussed an aweful lot, except in the context of 'womens choice' to do one or the other, but not both.

However, depending on your occupation, you can make it work or not.

I dont think its oppressive to do the best i can in the area of life that i value most. But you bet i would if someone else was telling me to do it without my consent!!

Do the best you can! I never ferberized my first two kids, who slept through the night early on anyway. I always attributed that to co sleeping and nursing on demand.
 
#30 ·
I was thinking about this thread today while bored at the soccer field watching one of my kids play. :eek: I don't know quite how to describe what I want to contribute because it's like this funky sliding bar graph in my head. I wish I could draw it. It's my form of balancing act. One bar is "what's best for my kids", another is, "what's best for me" and then those two things sort of slide around within another big graph that is "effort". If it's easy, good for my kids, and good for me it's a no-brainer. But the rest of the possible combinations is just a complicated balancing act, yk? What makes it worse is the unknowables like the things that may well be harder if I put the effort in now but way easier down the road.

Another huge factor here is resiliency. I always knew that my oldest was sort of struggling a little because she had me around all the time (combination of me being able to stay home and not having any family around to help). It took her longer to adjust to school, for instance. And she missed out on some cool play opportunities because she was accustomed to having me around. That was "ok" but it wasn't as balanced as I would have liked. My younger is more solid and joyful because she has better balance. Lots of family, mom and dad both active in their own lives. Both of us knowing that she is strong and resilient. THAT is a gift!

I also agree with everyone who said that AP needn't be a prescription. There are some ideas that come from AP or that AP also holds that I think are really important for babies and parents. Though few of them are more important than parents not losing their minds.

As far as AP being hard on moms, maybe that's a sub-cultural thing. Remember that "AP" draws folks from all along a political and cultural spectrum. I come at it from more of a progressive "hippie" side of things and I feel like AP has a lot of families who are doing wonderfully with balancing work and family expectations in terms of gender roles. I know a lot of SAHDs and lots and lots of families where parents are creative with work schedules, shared responsibilities, and etc. This is not to say that we don't still have a long way to go as a society when it comes to helping families raise their kids and fostering equality between women and men - just to say that the AP community doesn't seem worse off from my perspective.

Anyway, great discussion!
 
#32 ·
I'm a working mom and breastfed and baby wore and did that stuff. My husband and I don't have a lot of money and a lot of things we did for practicality reasons, like cloth diapering. Rather than finding them oppressive, we found them cheap. And cheap was good.

As for balancing work and parenting, I think it's a distraction to say that a certain parenting philosophy is oppressive of women. The parenting style isn't the point. Ultimately, feminism doesn't care whether you fed your kid the organic carrots or not. The point is that society and workplaces should be making accommodations to parents during their children's young years; that is the feminist thing to do. Because women--even moms!--have beautiful minds and productive spirits and have useful things to contribute to society besides parenting, and they have to be able to work if they want to or need to. Workplaces should be made to accommodate that.

It's a lot easier to be an attachment parent--or really any kind of parent you please--when your job is held for you for a year while you take maternity leave, when the state pays you a stipend while you take time off, when daycare is subsidized for you when you return to work, and work schedules are flexible to accommodate the needs of parents with young children.

As for reading a book and having wine, I did that while nursing my son all the time.
 
#34 ·
I'm a working mom and breastfed and baby wore and did that stuff. My husband and I don't have a lot of money and a lot of things we did for practicality reasons, like cloth diapering. Rather than finding them oppressive, we found them cheap. And cheap was good.

As for balancing work and parenting, I think it's a distraction to say that a certain parenting philosophy is oppressive of women. The parenting style isn't the point. Ultimately, feminism doesn't care whether you fed your kid the organic carrots or not. The point is that society and workplaces should be making accommodations to parents during their children's young years; that is the feminist thing to do. Because women--even moms!--have beautiful minds and productive spirits and have useful things to contribute to society besides parenting, and they have to be able to work if they want to or need to. Workplaces should be made to accommodate that.

It's a lot easier to be an attachment parent--or really any kind of parent you please--when your job is held for you for a year while you take maternity leave, when the state pays you a stipend while you take time off, when daycare is subsidized for you when you return to work, and work schedules are flexible to accommodate the needs of parents with young children.

As for reading a book and having wine, I did that while nursing my son all the time.
Agreed! Especially with the bolded.
 
#33 ·
One other thing to add is that here at MDC "AP" and "NFL" are often used together. In reality, they are two different things. Sure, you can make an argument that caring for the Earth is the ultimate thing we can do as parents...but that's sort of a huge, broad extension of AP. There are a lot of things that are often associated with AP, which really aren't part of AP at all - not cloth diapering, not environmental food choices, not where we birth, not how we educate our kids, not which medical choices we make. Yes, many of us choose the crunchy route for these things...but by absolutely no means to most AP parents choose all those same things, yk?

I would even say that baby wearing and co-sleeping aren't AP necessarily. I think there are values that are easier to achieve by doing those things that are AP. Like physical connection in infancy and early childhood. The need to be held is real, IMO. Gentle sleep solutions, IMO, is important. That does not mean that we have to sleep with our kids for a long time. But that we strive for solutions to sleep that are gentle. OP, if you tried Ferber and it seemed humane - maybe it was. Maybe your child was ready to fall asleep on her/his own. I wasn't there and won't judge. I have heard of parents who have different values about sleep letting their child cry to the point of vomiting in their bed. Or crying for long periods of distress. I will go out on limb and say that this is not AP and, IMO, is not good for babies. But, while I do co-sleep, I KNOW that I can get my 3.5 year old to sleep in her own bed gently. If I chose to do that, I don't lose any AP points. ;-)

And as far as boundaries. Oh, my gosh! One of my pet peeves with gentle discipline is this outside (and sometimes inside) view that GD is permissive. It isn't! Permissive parenting is terrible for kids. Firm boundaries are fine, GOOD! As is being real and authentic with our kids. Parents having real emotions is necessary for our kids to see. I have two daughters. They absolutely need to see me be a well-rounded, authentic woman.
 
#35 ·
More thoughts: AP isn't a one-size-fits-all how-to parenting instructions. It's a set of guidelines that lets parents tailor their parenting to each of their children. One of my children slept in our bed until age 2 and in our room until age 4 and nursed for over two years. Another of our children went to a crib in her own room when she was 4 months old and quit nursing at 9 months. I listened to them instead of insisting that they followed the "rules" set up by someone who had never met them.
 
#36 · (Edited)
This book (Love at Goon Park) is a good one to see how much the pendulum swung against attachment during the first half of the 20th century:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Z2NQDM?btkr=1

It may be true that all the AP practices that are in vogue now are not necessary to insure a child's well being, but there was a definite scientifically verifiable need for a movement toward attachment in the 20th Century.

And, at the other extreme of the pendulum:

Since the 1990s there have been a number of prosecutions for deaths or serious maltreatment of children at the hands of "attachment therapists" or parents following their instructions. Two of the most well-known cases are those of Candace Newmaker in 2000 and the Gravelles in 2003.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_therapy
 
#38 ·
Exactly! I think a lot of times, if we dropped the labels, we'd be a lot more comfortable in our own skin as parents. I do think that the labels have arisen much in the last generation with the internet and parents utilizing more "experts" than necessarily family member advice/tradition. Since they seek advice or opinion/guidance, there has to be some label in which they can more closely connect.

I consider myself very AP..yet I don't necessarily "do" or "not do" some things that other AP parents may do or not do. I also have learned what is best for us and have gained confidence. Much of that came through not comparing myself as our situation will never be the same as another family experience.
 
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