Physicians refusing to prescribe birth control - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

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#151 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
Penalt,
OK, so the ER doctor in question wouldn't actually administer the blood. Which is really no big deal, because i have never actually seen a doctor or surgeon actually administer the transfusion him/herself. Would the JW MD write or give the verbal order for blood? What if he or she works in a busy trauma ER and a patient needs blood, but the two other doc's are busy with other patients?

In a truly emergent situation, where every second is a decade, who writes the order?
I knew you were gonna ask that.

Actually the whole answer I got from my dad was kinda surprising to me. I am half thinking of talking to the elders of the local congregation, some of which remember me from my mom's funeral, about this. So I can get a direct answer from the local folks who liase (liase, is that a word?) with the hospitals on stuff like this.

I don't know who would do what in a split second matter. I would think that the hospital, knowing about the doc's self-imposed restrictions would make sure that their bases were covered in a situation like this. At least I sure hope they would.

I think I will talk to the local elders and get this cleared up. Its been 14+ years since I pounded the pavement with a fistful of Watchtowers. Things have changed with them.

We cross posted?

Does that mean I have to get you flowers, sweetbaby?
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#152 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 01:58 AM
 
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No flowers :LOL

Truthfully, i dont think its up to the hospital to uphold the doctors personal religious views, it would be up to the physician to make sure he or she wasnt in that situation. perhaps picking a specialty other than surgery or emergency medicine? I am not sure a hospital would actually take a known liablilty risk in employing an emergency room physician, or surgeon religiously opposed to giving blood.....at say a level 1 trauma center, you know?

Imagine that one in court?
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#153 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 01:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Penalt
No, you said
That is a lot different from simply not ordering a blood transfusion. For instance he could order a blood expander or drugs to stimulate the production of new cells from marrow, etc. etc.

As for me, I get hurt. Plug me in doc, make it type O. Okay?

As to the issue at hand. I think I would remind the pharmacist or doctor that Roe v. Wade is still the law of the land and by refusing to fill that scrip the least that may happen to them is the loss of their license to practice.

Sorry, but you can't always substitute a blood transfusion with something else, can you? Especially in the ER when someone ahs been shot, seriously injured etc.

What I'm trying to say is, if your belief doesn't allow you to do certain things, choose your profession accordingly, that's all.

Like a devoted catholic should be responsible enough to NOT become a GYN/Dermatologist and a JW should not become an ER doctor. It WILL affect the patient sooner or later which is contradictive to the ethics of practising medicine IMO
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#154 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 01:15 PM
 
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And any person who thinks circumcision is wrong or vaccines are dangerous, should not become pediatricians or OBs either, right?

:Patty :fireman Catholic, intactalactivist, co-sleeping, GDing, HSing, no-vax Mama to .........................:..........hale:
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#155 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 01:25 PM
 
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Peppermint, i think any doctor who has moral or religious issues, should pick their specialty carefully.

That said, no one ever rushed into my ER, lights and sirens, or via Trauma Hawk with a life or death need for a circumcision or need for a vaccine.
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#156 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 01:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
That said, no one ever rushed into my ER, lights and sirens, or via Trauma Hawk with a life or death need for a circumcision or need for a vaccine.
How about for the pill?

:Patty :fireman Catholic, intactalactivist, co-sleeping, GDing, HSing, no-vax Mama to .........................:..........hale:
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#157 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 01:38 PM
 
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IMO opinion it has to do with standard of care and PATIENT choice. BC is considered a standard treatment, as is blood trans. Circ is no longer recom. and therefore is a choice with informed consent. Vax do not treat a problem, they are intended to avoid a problem. I think that Doctors should administer vax even if they do not agree with it (AFTER GETTING INFORMED CONSENT).

FTR, I am not "for" DC, if fact I think that it is horrible. I am not for doctors being able to deny women standard treatment based on their beliefs. Especially as you can see in the article I quoted above, they don't even want to help them find other sources of help. And to me if a pharm. refuses to fill a prescription, they are practicing medicine without a license.
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#158 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 05:36 PM
 
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How about for the pill?
If the question really is does someone come in lights and sirens or via helicopter for the pill, my answer is no.

Does our ER docs prescribe the pill? yes, after consulting with OB, they do, usually for irregular bleeding (not usually for a prescription refill).
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#159 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 06:14 PM
 
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Umm, not all dr's/pharmacists start out in training with an objective of not perscribing or filling scrips for bc. We know a lot of folks who have objections to hormonal bc, the shots, and iuds, and every one of them arrived at that objection after many years of having no objections. My parents only stopped perscribing bc after 20 years of medical practice--thier beliefs about human life beginning at conception only matured at that time, and then they researched the Pill and came to the conclusion that it was abortifacient. They are Family Practice drs, so it's not like they are sending away half thier practice (as they would in OB/GYN) to find someone else to perscribe bc.

They were also prepared to lose thier jobs if thier beliefs were a problem for thier employer (which so far hasn't happened). I think any medical professional who has similar beliefs should be *ready and willing* to loose thier job over this, and not make a fuss. They have every right to thier beliefs, and to practice them, but they should understand that the profession (and the public) may be hostile to those beliefs, and accept it, rather than retain a lawyer to get thier job back.
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#160 of 164 Old 09-21-2004, 09:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagomom
Thought it couldn't get any weirder?

Quote:
Lacey's pharmacist and Kelley's doctors are among hundreds, perhaps thousands, of physicians and pharmacists who now adhere to a controversial belief that birth control pills and other forms of hormonal contraception--including the skin patch, the vaginal ring, and progesterone injections--cause tens of thousands of "silent" abortions every year. Consequently, they are refusing to prescribe or dispense them.
http://www.prevention.com/cda/featur...-7342,00.html?
Before I say anything, I want to state three things: I am a man and english is not my first language so pardon my awkward grammar. Third, I sometimes can be very blunt, please pardon my rudeness if I sound like that but I tend to be very honest so apologize if my comments offend you. It is not my intention, believe me.

Anyway I want to say that is considerably ridiculous. First of all, to my understanding that teachers in any schools (America) are not allow to share their or rather, impose their beliefs on students right? Otherwise they will be fired.. Would you like to have some teachers impose their beliefs or their religious on your kids in school against your beliefs/religious? Well? I don't think any of you would stand by and do nothing. That is similar conception.

Second of all, sure these 'chemical' bc are quite dangerous if misuse but it is more conventional for uneducated women (it is not bad term, I will explain in several mins. Please don't take that term wrong. Believe me..) Funny thing is that conventional doctors & hospital has been killed numbers of patients (americans) per year, yet is it ok for them to mistreat and 'kill' you by unnecessary surgeries, medication errors, etc while it is NOT ok for them to prescribe the simple bc to aid women to 'prevent' from pregnancy WHEN they want to outlaw the abortion? They ranted about that it went against their beliefs to prescribe the bc.. on contrary, that is quite bullshit and nonsense. They simply don't care.

That's what I don't get it when I read this article. I must say that 'not to prescribe because it is against their beliefs' is a biggest joke of this year, wait no.. this century. Yes, sex is mostly for procreation but we as in men & women HAVE our own pleasures to 'satisfy' our needs, why deny the most humanly feeling that God gave to us?

Here's stats on conventional doctors & hospital that needs to consider:

Quote:
ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:

12,000 -- unnecessary surgery 8
7,000 -- medication errors in hospitals 9
20,000 -- other errors in hospitals 10
80,000 -- infections in hospitals 10
106,000 -- non-error, negative effects of drugs 2
These total to 250,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic causes!!
What does the word iatrogenic mean? This term is defined as induced in a patient by a physician's activity, manner, or therapy. Used especially of a complication of treatment.

Dr. Starfield offers several warnings in interpreting these numbers:

First, most of the data are derived from studies in hospitalized patients.
Second, these estimates are for deaths only and do not include negative effects that are associated with disability or discomfort.
Third, the estimates of death due to error are lower than those in the IOM report.1
If the higher estimates are used, the deaths due to iatrogenic causes would range from 230,000 to 284,000. In any case, 225,000 deaths per year constitutes the third leading cause of death in the United States, after deaths from heart disease and cancer. Even if these figures are overestimated, there is a wide margin between these numbers of deaths and the next leading cause of death (cerebrovascular disease).
And yet it is ok for people to accept these mistreatments from these conventional doctors while some certain groups threw some fusses about bc or abortion? Again, that's what I don't get about these people. 250,000 people died per year, that is something that people needs to rethink on that before they can accept that physicans/pharmacists 'revoke' your rights for their so-called 'beliefs' sake. Also I hope many of you aware that hundreds, perhaps thousands of these 'conventional' medicines cause numbers of deaths & health problems (side effects) annual as well yet these people didn't complain about these.

And one more thing, many texans don't realize that giant pharmacy industry dumped Prozac in their water system for years. They feel that they don't need to disclose the informations to texans until environment team found out and exposed however they are still dumping prozac in texas water system (actually included 30 states) without their knowledges or approvals. The moral question: is that ok for them to do that to you by taking your 'rights' away when they dumped in your water system without your knowledge or approval?

Anyway back to 'unedcated women' term, by that, I mean I am aware that there is natural method to 'prevent' the pregnancy such as 'cycle' method (menstrual cycle) in ancient times. It was like 99.9% chance to not get pregnancy with absolutely no side effects. I am not saying that taking bc is bad for you but it is YOUR choice after all. I refuse to impose my opinions on any women about that since I am not a woman and I respect your choice since your body is yours after all. I realize that many women aren't aware of that 'natural' method to prevent pregnancy, I don't blame them since that kind of 'art of practice' is practically lost on post-industrial revolution civilization after all. Actually, there is a excellent book that explains how to do that without taking these bcs.. Well, you women may want to look into that book to get better understanding of what I said in this post. If I have a girlfriend or wife, I would rather to have my partner to get look at that book and practice that natural method so that she will not suffer these side effects such as water-retention, aches and stuff. But if I or we didn't acquire that natural method knowledge, I would support my wife/girlfriend whatever she wants as long as she think it is best for her. Heck, it is her rights and her body... she is the one who handle it (her health/body), not these idiotic physicans or greedy pharmacists.

If there is any kind of 'prevention' medicine for men or sperm, I am willing to try that out as well but as long as there is no side effects or surgery.

Well, whenever I finally graduate as a doctor, I am going to not allow my so-called beliefs, religious or feelings to impose on any women patients. I am going to treat any women patient based on their rights, & needs regardless of my so-called beliefs. That's what being a doctor means. Also that's which why I pick osteopathic physician career since based on their practice to a "whole person" approach to medicine, treating the entire person rather that just the symptoms.

I quoted Hippocrates:

Quote:
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.
Indeed.

'Dr. Milk'
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#161 of 164 Old 09-22-2004, 05:55 PM
 
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To those addressing the blood transfusion issue, it is my understanding that JW's in the health profession usually leave the transfusing to someone else. If that were not possible then it would be a conscience decision on their part. The people I know personally would probably go ahead and transfuse if it was an emergency, noone else was available, and that is what the patient desired.

For the record, my desire to avoid blood transfusions was originally for scriptural reasons. However, the more educated I became on the subject, the more it made medical sense. Research shows that patients recover more quickly and with less complications when bloodless medicines, those that expand blood volume, are used.
Check out http://www.bmsi.net/ (not a JW site) for more info if you like.

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#162 of 164 Old 09-22-2004, 06:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by huggerwocky
I'll never understand that! I yet have to see studies showing me that the birth control pill leads to an abortion IF after a remote chance yous till get pregnant.I personally know of many women who,despite the pill got pregnant and had the baby anyway.
It depends on how you define pregnancy. The definition has changed so that "pregnancy" is now defined as beginning at implantation.

Those who say bc is abortifacient define pregnancy/human life as beginning at conception. The pill's primary function is to prevent ovulation. However, both forms have a secondary function of making the uterine lining inhospitible to a conceptus (look it up on Planned Parenthood), and with IUD's, that is the primary function. Obviously the primary function fails sometimes, or there wouldn't need to be a secondary one. (and, obviously, the secondary function fails too, or there wouldn't be any Pill or IUD babies) If you believe life begins at conception, then to prescribe any hormonal bc or IUD's would be potentially contributing to the ending of an innocent human life. That is the basis for refusal to perscribe or fill scrips for bc.
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#163 of 164 Old 09-22-2004, 06:28 PM
 
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I went to the website, read, and then did a quick search.

I could see how one could plan to reduce blood loss during a "routine" elective surgery. I saw the list of bloodless surgeries and procedures. And i think as medical professionals we should do everything possible to minimize blood loss during a procedure.

Unfortunately i didn't see anything about truly emergent situations, traumas like gunshot wounds and stabbings or cardio-thoracic surgeries where risk for hemorrhaging is great. Denver, Co was doing a study of sorts on synthetic blood.....sort of like a volume expander, but going the extra steps to transport oxygen to tissue and organs. Blood does so much more than keep our vascular walls up.

Giving blood *is* risky. I once gave over 100 units of packed cells, fresh frozen plasma & platelets to a teenager. His poor liver!
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#164 of 164 Old 09-22-2004, 06:45 PM
 
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seems to me that they are going to CAUSE more abortions than they are going to prevent!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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