Where are all these supposed unsupportive pro-lifers? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 118 Old 07-15-2004, 10:39 PM
 
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A lot of parents choose to do overseas adoption because they can get a healthy infant/toddler without having to wait years & years like they often would with a private domestic newborn adoption.
I'm the mother of two children adopted from China (and was also taken aback by the eyerolling). Another big factor for many people is the predictability of the process in some other countries. Now, that's not to say that there aren't sometime unpredictable situation, but for the most part you have some idea going into it (with many countries) that if you meet the criteria and jump through the myriad hoops, you will adopt a child. That is not the case with private newborn adoptions, where you may never be selected by a birth mother, and where the birth mother may change her mind.

We also looked into adopting from the state, and what we found was a huge variation from county to county. In my county, it was almost certain that we, as caucasians, would not have a child of a different race placed with us because of the prejudices of the local officials against transracial placements.
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#92 of 118 Old 07-16-2004, 12:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by janerose
...I know someone earlier mentioned something about her brother & his wife looking to adopt a healthy girl from China. I assume because the statement was followed by an that she doesn't agree with this. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE everyone try to be understanding of those who are adopting. Especially if they've gone through ANY sort of infertility...
That was me...and I've been dealing with infertility for over a decade (I had several miscarriages before having my son, who is now 12, and have been unable to concieve/adopt.) My BIL and SIL get pregnant if they look at each other and they have no problem carrying pregnancies to term. They say they are considering adoption because they are so against abortion. But it makes no sense...they absolutely will not adopt an older child or a minority or a child will special needs here in the United States, where they want to prohibit abortion. But they are willing to fly half way around the world to adopt a baby girl from China. I'd have a lot more respect for them if they'd just admit they want a girl (they have a houseful of boys and always says "we hope it's a girl!" before the ultrasound tells them otherwise) and stopped pretending it's because they are so committed to "life" (whatever the hell that means)

And, yes, their nearly super-human ease in concieving and carrying children to term combined with their total lack of compassion for our infertility has made me bitter about the whole situation. But I hold my tounge in person with them, so I'm venting here.
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#93 of 118 Old 07-16-2004, 03:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by srain
That's pretty much what I thought- I really believe that if a mother puts a baby up for adoption at birth, it will almost always be easily adoptable. My question was about mothers choosing abortion or adoption for their children, and I felt like folks were claiming that unless the baby was perfectly healthy and white, it was doomed to a life in an institution. Sibling groups and kids available for adoption at older ages don't really seem relevant to that choice....

SRain...I wonder if what you read was taken out of context, because it seems as if this proves MY point...she was willing to adopt an infant of any race and one was not available for direct adoption...? So it's also the state that holds these kids up. If she had went there asking about a white healthy infant, she more than likely would have been refered to a private agency and waited a LONG time, because healthy white babies are in HIGH demand.

I'm also not sure how older kids don't seem relevant, when these unadoptable babies are placed in foster care when the agencies don't come knocking down the door trying to place them, and they quickly GROW UP and become unadoptable "older aged children". So I'm puzzled at how this wasn't relevant.

Please ask Jane how many WHITE older healthy kids there were that were in the system since infancy....my guess there'd be none because they were all snatched up.

Please do me and yourself a favor...call a private adoption agency, ask how long is the wait for a healthy white baby (assuming that you already did all the paper work, got visited and approved by a social worker, etc). Years. Ask how long the wait for a mixed, black or hispanic baby with or without disabilities. They'd have one MUCH quicker. Educate yourself and take a chance to open up your mind. These babies are not being adopted like we ALL hope they would be. THAT is why they are all now 4,5,6,16 years old, and that ADDS to their "unadoptableness" (yes, I made that word up )


Best Wishes,
A Very Frustrated Kelly

PS-Jane-FTR I don't jugde who adopts who. I don't care if someone, who may only be able to adopt one child because of the cost and emotional tolls. wishes to wait 5 years to adopt the "baby of their dreams". The issue I take is with those who claim that all babies/children/whatever who are placed for adoption have equal chances of actually being adopted, when statistacally, rationally, clearly, that is not the case.

Even my father, a staunch Conservative Repulican, member of countless anti-life organizations has stated that he feels sorry for all the black babies that never really have a chance at life, even after they're "saved" and born.

Kelly, mama (12yoDS), doula, RN, and writer.
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#94 of 118 Old 07-16-2004, 04:49 PM
 
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Having a certain kind of child (or any child at all) is not a "right." It's a privilege and an awesome gift. If you have adopted or conceived the kind of child you wanted, it's because the scales were tipped in your favor, not because you "deserved" it.
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#95 of 118 Old 07-16-2004, 05:21 PM
 
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i just want to say, i am in AWE of you mamas, and yes, this thread (and others here) has affected the way i see things. i've gone from "on the fence" to strongly pro-choice ... and passionate about making abortion *unnecessary*.

and now volunteering as an escort at an abortion clinic is a life goal for me.

than you for all your facts and passion.
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#96 of 118 Old 07-17-2004, 03:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by girlndocs
i just want to say, i am in AWE of you mamas, and yes, this thread (and others here) has affected the way i see things. i've gone from "on the fence" to strongly pro-choice ... and passionate about making abortion *unnecessary*.

and now volunteering as an escort at an abortion clinic is a life goal for me.

than you for all your facts and passion.
I was an escort for years. It's scary. But, in a strange way, fullfilling. What you do isimportant.

When I was at PP as an escort (this is vounteer, btw), many of the women (young in their teens) weren't going in for abortions. They were going in for routine gyn care.

It's an eye opening experience. If you'd like to start another thread, there are a few of us here who could tell you more, I"m sure.
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#97 of 118 Old 07-19-2004, 10:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CookieMonsterMommy
Please do me and yourself a favor...call a private adoption agency, ask how long is the wait for a healthy white baby (assuming that you already did all the paper work, got visited and approved by a social worker, etc). Years. Ask how long the wait for a mixed, black or hispanic baby with or without disabilities. They'd have one MUCH quicker. Educate yourself and take a chance to open up your mind. These babies are not being adopted like we ALL hope they would be. THAT is why they are all now 4,5,6,16 years old, and that ADDS to their "unadoptableness" (yes, I made that word up )
Done! The receptionist estimated 2 years for a white infant, 1 year for a black infant. It's not like there are all these black babies piled up waiting to be adopted. We completely agree that older children are hard to adopt. What I said was "if a mother puts a baby up for adoption at birth, it will almost always be easily adoptable." And I still stand by that!
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#98 of 118 Old 07-19-2004, 06:25 PM
 
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Srain:

Yes, it will be almost immediately adoptable. But not adopted. Please look into the stats.

This is the last time I will post Re:Adoption of white vs. black babies, mostly because it is way OT. But also because it is frustrating (as I'm sure it is for you too) and I do not think it will accomplish anything.

Thank you,
Kelly

Kelly, mama (12yoDS), doula, RN, and writer.
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#99 of 118 Old 07-19-2004, 06:35 PM
 
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also, the local miami Herald just did a huge story on the staggeringly large number of African-American babies/children who have not been adopted and stuck in the the foster system cycle, and the article went on to say that this was the case across the nation. And the Florida agency is trying to reach out to African American families to get them to adopt cause they have had such little success getting these children adopted through prospective white families.
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#100 of 118 Old 07-19-2004, 06:53 PM
 
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I thought it was hard for a white family to adopt an African American child. (my source might be Law and Order, so this may not be true)
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#101 of 118 Old 07-19-2004, 06:59 PM
 
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I think it depends on the individual state. Some put priority on same-"race" adoption, others do not.

T

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#102 of 118 Old 07-19-2004, 07:19 PM
 
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a bit T, but, on the subject of adopting babies of different races...

did anyone see that photo that was banned several years ago of the white woman breastfeeding a black baby?
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#103 of 118 Old 07-19-2004, 07:56 PM
 
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I think it depends on the individual state.
In my state it varies right down to the county level. In my county, the head of the department in charge of this will do just about anything to avoid a transracial placement, including leaving children in foster care for many, many years.
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#104 of 118 Old 07-19-2004, 09:42 PM
 
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totally T at this point :

Quote:
did anyone see that photo that was banned several years ago of the white woman breastfeeding a black baby?
Nope. Banned from where/by who?

 

 

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#105 of 118 Old 07-19-2004, 10:21 PM
 
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( T )

man, it was years ago, but if i remember right it was banned from the art gallery / art show that it was going to be in by the state / country...

let me see if i can dig up the article (and photo).
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#106 of 118 Old 07-20-2004, 12:28 AM
 
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I'd love to see it (just cause I love nursing pics) but don't go out of your way looking for it, not worth much time/effort Thanks, though!

 

 

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#107 of 118 Old 07-20-2004, 11:36 AM
 
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I saw it long ago in a perfume ad...United Colors of Benetton?
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#108 of 118 Old 07-20-2004, 06:26 PM
 
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I think that there are plenty of supportive pro-lifers.
But I do not whole-heartedly believe in welfare.
For the most part from what I've seen personally, so many people "play" the system. Welfare should be there to get you through a rough patch, not to live off of for year after year. Some people need to man-up (womyn-up?) take reasponsiblity for they're actions, and that dosen't have to mean have an abortion.

I try to be as supportive as I can, myself. I became a foster parent 2 1/2 years ago, and let me tell you its wonderful helping babies find homes. In response to the pp, there are a lot of african-american babies in the system, but a lot of times the system makes it very difficult for a white couple to take an african-american child. I was once called to take an african- american little girl until they realized I wasn't trained in ethnic hair-care, something that was never brought to my attention prior and honestly seems silly to me.
Sorry, I guess I went of topic a little.
Last point:
Pro-life: some help women, some do not.
Pro-choice: some help women, some do not.

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#109 of 118 Old 07-20-2004, 06:43 PM
 
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If "taking responsibility for your actions" means never receiving any help and possibly taking on more than what you are capable of, I wouldn't encourage that. I think that regardless of one's opinion of the mother, the baby does not deserve to be punished for the circumstances of its birth. A baby born to a single teenager who has no money deserves to have its needs met just as any other baby. It seems our government has this attitude that it should deny the babies things like food and medical care just to get back at the mothers for daring to have them in the first place. Like that new rule that denies welfare mothers extra benefits when they have more children. The children do without because other people do not approve of their parents. Why is that fair?

Every parent needs help. Some need more than others. Some need help in the form of money, some need childcare, some need parenting education, etc. Regardless of who these parents are, don't we want to help them? Don't children do much better when their parents receive the help they need? And isn't that what every pro-lifer wants: the best for the children? (Well, no, I know it's not what they all want, but some do.)

And if men took responsibility for their actions and for the children they created...would non-livesaving abortion even exist at all?
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#110 of 118 Old 07-20-2004, 06:58 PM
 
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I totally agree with the men needing to take responsibility for they're actions. And like I said, welfare is there to help. I think when your on welfare you should be focused on providing for your children and eventually getting off.
If you know how to work the system it provides everything for you and if you are a good,up-standing, truthful citizen in need of a little help you get nothing.

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#111 of 118 Old 07-20-2004, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"And if men took responsibility for their actions and for the children they created...would non-livesaving abortion even exist at all?"

Yes. I don't think that men are to blame. My brother in law's ex aborted their baby even though he offered to raise it himself without her help. He still mourns the child that he doesn't have. Abortion hurts men too.

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13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
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#112 of 118 Old 07-20-2004, 11:33 PM
 
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And if men took responsibility for their actions and for the children they created...would non-livesaving abortion even exist at all?
Yes, because no birth control is 100% so there will always be unwanted *pregnancies* (if not unwanted children).

 

 

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#113 of 118 Old 07-21-2004, 02:37 AM
 
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I think it's important for people to realize that even those women who desperately want children might be forced to consider abortion. My partner and I were faced with that possibility when I was trying to become pregnant. We might have had too many eggs than could be safely carried, or we might have had a genetic abnormality that would cause severe impairment or even death if the pregnancy went to term. Most only consider the possibility of a mother's life being put in jeopardy, but there are other cases where a mother might have to abort even if she wants children.
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#114 of 118 Old 07-21-2004, 11:07 AM
 
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A good friend of mine just lost her baby Tues. He had severe neuro problems and died an hour after he was born. She knew this from the beginning, but the thought of ending his life never crossed her mind. He had problems, he wasn't perfect and as long as he was in her womb he was safe and that is all that mattered. Her life was in danger numerous times over the last few weeks, but that can not justify killing a baby. She waited until it was life and death for her before she let them take him. And I think she is the most couragous woman I will know. Abortion can never be justified. Taking a baby early because of medical problems and doing what you can is a diffrerent story.
An embryo IS a human entity!

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#115 of 118 Old 07-21-2004, 11:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryLang
. Abortion can never be justified.
Of course you realize this is ONLY your opinion, right!?

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#116 of 118 Old 07-21-2004, 11:51 AM
 
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Killing is NEVER justified!

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#117 of 118 Old 07-21-2004, 12:03 PM
 
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I've always thought that a baby who was going to die at birth should die in a peaceful, loving environment. And that if it were my baby, I'd want to hold it as long as I could before it died.

But I can't imagine what that would be like, and I could understand why a woman would want to hurry and abort the child she knew would not live so she could be that much closer to conceiving a child who might.
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#118 of 118 Old 07-26-2004, 11:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryLang
Killing is NEVER justified!

I assume you are a very active anti-war activist then.

as well as a vegetarian and also active in the anti-death penalty movement.
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