exposing the Pearls - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 59 Old 09-27-2007, 10:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2shy2post View Post

Can you help me???

I am a Christian and would like to address the point that I don't believe that I am not a "real" Christian if I don't hit my kids. I don't believe that it is a mandate in the Word.
I reference the Grace Base Discipline resource where Gentle Christian Mothers methods honor their Christian beliefs. Mutually agreeable solutions are more apt to be embraced than to be told to "Stop" xyz behavior. Gentle Christian Mothers and Grace Based Discipline have a lot of articles and resources about this.

Grace Based Discipline home page:
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...rystal/gbd.php

Gentle Discipline articles:
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...discipline.php

Re: Ezzo, Pearls, etc.
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...unprepared.php

Christian Denomination links:
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...denomlinks.php


Pat

I have a blog.
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#32 of 59 Old 09-28-2007, 10:21 AM
 
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http://www.stophitting.com/religion/christian/

might be of help to you.
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#33 of 59 Old 09-28-2007, 02:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by abimommy View Post
The Pearls are probably already aware Mothering is in opposition to their practices.
:

The Pearls have been spreading their crap for a very long time. They've been discussed over and over again in the Spirituality forum here.

I don't know how they continue to get away with advocating child abuse. : They certainly make no secret of their "discipline" methods. You can read the full text of "To Train up a Child" on the 'net. (It's disgusting, btw.) And of course they are out speaking regularly.

But they're crafty about it. From the news link posted above:

Quote:
The Pearls' advice from their Web site: A swift whack with the plastic tubing would sting but not bruise. Give 10 licks at a time, more if the child resists. Be careful about using it in front of others -- even at church; nosy neighbors might call social workers. Save hands for nurturing, not disciplining. Heed the warning, taken from Proverbs in the Old Testament, that sparing the rod will spoil the child.
Isn't Phelps the guy who bashes/condemns gays in the name of God? He's equally repugnant.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#34 of 59 Old 09-28-2007, 03:51 PM
 
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I wish I wouldn't have read that website.
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#35 of 59 Old 09-28-2007, 05:06 PM
 
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http://www.mothering.com/discussions...34#post1845534

Quote:
Originally Posted by DebraBaker
The reason Michael and Debbi Pearl aren't arrested for child abuse is they deliberately waited for their own five children to be grown before they wrote and promoted this bile.

Seriously they brag about this in one of their newsletters (the same one in which Debbi Pearl writes about whipping her own *granddaughter*.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#36 of 59 Old 09-28-2007, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think it's difficult to get into a discussion with someone who believes children need to be "trained", or who believes any sort of aggression towards a child is healthy, or who believes that children are supposed to be controlled by people who are older and usually bigger than them, or who believes life isn't meant to be enjoyable and pleasurable and fun.

I mean, without those basic similar beliefs, we're on two different life paths at this point. And I can only wave as we pass like ships through the night.

My siblings and I lived through abuse and I'm one of the healthiest people I know. And that brings me relief when I think of others who are also abused.

Let me lighten the vibration on this thread with some words from Scott Noelle, parenting coach:

Quote:
Small Body, Big Spirit
by Scott Noelle, posted on 2007-07-25

Mother Nature doesn't aim for mediocre. She imbues every child with HUGE creative potential.

Children are born knowing they're supposed to be BIG — innately powerful, free, and continuously expanding to new horizons.

Today, no matter how physically small your child may be, notice and appreciate his or her BIGness in spirit. That spirit is easy to see when your child is expressing pure Love and Joy. But it's no less present when s/he's "misbehaving." In those trying times, remember...

Our children are always doing the best they can to stay connected to their BIGness — in a world that expects them to be small.

http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/big-spirit

Feel free to forward this message to your friends!
(Please include this paragraph and everything above.)
Copyright (c) 2007 by Scott Noelle
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#37 of 59 Old 09-28-2007, 08:49 PM
 
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Okay, as a Buddhist monk, I am not a biblical scholar. But don't Christians profess to follow the new testament? And didn't the new testament supercede the old? I am asking honestly, because I sincerely want to understand. IS there anything in the new testament that advocates corporal punishment? My take on such things as "spare the rod" means NOT to make use of it. And "suffer the little children" means tolerate them. Somehow, I do not see Jesus EVER in ANY way saying hurting ANYONE is acceptable. KWIM?
laoxinat
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#38 of 59 Old 09-29-2007, 02:36 AM
 
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I read somewhere that the "rod" was actually derived from the word that means the shepherd's staff. The staff is what the shepherd GUIDES the sheep with, not hits them.

Anyway, here's their advice for dealing with a kid who panics and runs away when they see that they're going to be beaten. I felt sick after the first "lick" - she still had six more to go - with this sadistic bee-yotch waiting thirty seconds between 'licks'. Sheesh. And btw she's being hit because she hit her brother

Quote:
When she screams or flees, calmly follow through by physically subduing her. Sit on her, if you have to, and slowly explain that you will not tolerate this resistance. Explain in a normal tone (She will eventually stop screaming and listen) that you are going to give her, say, five licks for the original offense and an additional two licks for the fit. Slowly apply the five licks, counting out loud. When I say slowly, I mean with a thirty second gap between each lick and a calm explanation to the screaming child that you are not the least impressed except that you are going to spank harder and she still gets the additional two licks plus one more for her ongoing screaming. When you have finally arrived at five well- anticipated and carefully counted licks, say, “OK, your spanking is over; that is the five licks you got for hitting your brother, but now I must give you two more for trying to run away.” Give her one lick and say, “Now, that is one of the licks for running away; you have one more coming.” Give the second lick, and then calmly and slowly explain that all her licks are over now, except for the one additional lick she incurred for continuing to scream during the spanking. After you have finished, tell her that you are going to let her up now, if she stops screaming, otherwise you are going to give her one additional lick. If she stops, or at least makes a great effort to, then you have won. You may never have to go through this horrible time again. But, if she is continuing to scream in defiance, you have the option of continuing to warn and spank, or of ceasing here with a parting warning: “Next time you better not run and throw a fit; for if you do, you will only get more licks and harder ones.”

Amy
with the three boys and a bundle coming in November
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#39 of 59 Old 09-29-2007, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sandra Dodd's webpage on spanking
(just heard her speak at our homeschooling conference TODAY

We make choices ALL the time. Learning to make better ones in small little ways, immediate ways, makes life bigger and better. Choosing to be gentle with a child, and patient with ourselves, and generous in ways we think might not even show makes our children more gentle, patient and generous.—Sandra Dodd
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#40 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 01:20 AM
 
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I know a family that follows this:

To my husband I am wife, to my kids I am mother, but for myself I am just me.
we're : with and : and
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#41 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 02:12 AM
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I have removed several posts from this thread.

First, there is no debate in Activism. Don't agree? post a counter cause, start a thread discussing the issue in N&CE, but do no debate the cause on the Activism board.

Secondly, there is no, and let me repeat this very clearly, *NO* advocating for physical punishment - no matter what you call it - hosted at Mothering. Period.

With those two things in mind, carry on.

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#42 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 04:43 AM
 
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memorial@membc.org
http://www.membc.org/deacon.html
(254) 634-6882 phone # to the church

Here's the email to the Memorial baptist church in Killeen, TX where they will be speaking on 10/3, and a link to all the deacons and their phone numbers below it. I couldn't find anymore emails. There is an online prayer request form as well if you choose.
I'm going to email the article about the boy's death to every email I can... Hopefully it will touch someone to stop this.
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#43 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 04:48 AM
 
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I have a friend who works there. The article is up, he sent me a link: http://www.kdhnews.com:80/news/story.aspx?id=19127

Not exactly the scathing review I'd have hoped for, but pretty egalitarian. I think they have to be careful since they have such a conservative readership. Soooo, my lovely Texan cohorts, who is setting up the protest? I'll send vibes from across the ocean.
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#44 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 05:20 AM
 
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Here is a reference from their website that you may want to use in your letters. The Bolding is mine. None of this "plan" is in the Bible, if it's not obvious by now... Let me know if this post isn't allowed, I just wanted to wade through some of that cr@p so we can reference it.

"What if they fight back?
Children fight back because they think they have a chance of forestalling the spanking. First make sure the child never gains anything by fleeing. Second, cause the child to understand that he is further hurting himself by resisting. Slow down, stay calm. If you are in a frenzy, the child will respond in kind. If a child flees, don’t chase him. Wait and allow time for the tension to go out of the air. Slowly pursue him, explaining that he cannot win. If it takes a long time, that’s fine. Go to his hiding place and laugh at his frail attempts. Explain that if it takes fourteen days to bring him to justice, he will be brought to justice. Patience. Calm. Dignity. Wait until he calms down in the back of the closet, or under the bed, and as you sit outside, or just beyond him, quietly tell him that you are coming to give him his ten licks, but that since he has fled, he is now going to get one extra lick. Wait several minutes for him to calm down and listen with reason, and ask him how much ten plus one is. “That’s right, eleven. Would you rather have 10 licks or 11?” He answers “10.” Then tell him that it is too late to get just 10, but if he doesn’t come out immediately you will raise it to 12. He must have calmed down for him to make a rational choice. If not, then wait a little longer. Keep this up until you raise the stakes to about twenty licks, explaining to him that when you get to 20 licks you are coming after him. If he is locked in his room, explain that you will unlock the door. There is no escape. Be calm, non-threatening in tone. Just quiet dignity. Think of yourself as a high-ranking government official in charge of negotiations. Know that in the end you will win. It is the quality of the win that counts. You want him to voluntarily surrender. There is no “violence” that way. It is a great victory if you can get him to finally give over and take the few steps toward you. One win like this and you are likely to never have this problem again.
If your negotiation for an unconditional surrender fails, calmly unlock the door and enter the room. While quietly explaining what you are doing, drag him out of the closet or out from under the bed and restrain him until he calms down. Explain your position and then put him in a confining position. And then proceed to spank slowly. When you get to the former number of licks that he would have received, stop and say, “OK that is the ten licks you had coming; I am tired of spanking, but I must give you the other lick that I promised if you did not come to me.” Whap! “There, now that is eleven, but you still did not come, so I told you you would get 12, so here is the twelfth…” And so continue talking him through it so that he knows that he is getting exactly what you promised.
If a kid is hysterical, he will not learn anything, except that you are more powerful. That is a good lesson, but you want more. You want him to come to repentance and take responsibility for every action. He must understand the causes and effects of his actions.
If you raise your voice and run and jerk the child around, you will add to his hysteria, and he will learn nothing. If you give over in any way, or you beg, or you act as if you are emotionally suffering, he wins; you lose, and in the end he loses in the area of character. The child needs you to win with dignity. His soul needs to surrender to a power greater than self. Remember, you are representing all authority to the child, including the authority of God."



I am particularly disgusted by the statement that there is no violence if the child surrenders. This does a great disservice to domestic violence victims who know that there may not be a choice to fight their abuser.
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#45 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 11:11 AM
 
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Not always. This is where some of the theology of the denominations come in.
As a follower of Christ, I do follow the new but the old is very sacred and special (for obvious reasons) and I take it into account as well. I've always believed that Christ didn't come to abolish the old but to uphold it. Many of my practices come from the Hebrew bible and I often pray from the Hebrew bible. Christians (I would dare venture to say most) still use it to learn from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laoxinat View Post
Okay, as a Buddhist monk, I am not a biblical scholar. But don't Christians profess to follow the new testament? And didn't the new testament supercede the old? I am asking honestly, because I sincerely want to understand.


Totally totally agree. I think this is what makes me very very mad.
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Originally Posted by laoxinat View Post
Somehow, I do not see Jesus EVER in ANY way saying hurting ANYONE is acceptable. KWIM?
laoxinat
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#46 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 11:26 AM
 
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SarahLi, those things from their website are just disgusting...I feel gross from even reading it.

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#47 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Right on, Megan!
http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=19127

Quote:
"Jesus Christ taught us that unless we 'become like little children' we can never enter the kingdom of heaven," ****** said.

This implies that children are more in tune with God that adults, ****** explained.

"Why should the unrighteous be punishing the righteous?" ****** asked.
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#48 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 12:20 PM
 
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Rad job!




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Originally Posted by AmyMN View Post
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#49 of 59 Old 09-30-2007, 01:08 PM
 
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"We do not record or take credence in anonymous calls or letters. If
you have a valid concern that you want us to be aware of, please provide
us with your name, address and phone number
We also ask that you provide the source of the information you are
reporting so we may validate it. We appreciate your concern for our
church.
Pastor Cummings

This is the email I received from Huisache Baptist Church. I had included my name so I didn't consider it anonymous. So I guess my concern is not valid. I also replied that I had referenced past experience, the Pearl's website, the news article and scripture, but I guess that's not good enough? Anyone want to email referenced studies to them?(done!) I did write my address but there's no way they're getting my phone number right now.

Great job 2shy2post for getting an article in the newspaper, wow!
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#50 of 59 Old 10-01-2007, 12:36 PM
 
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I live in San Antonio and emailed my favorite reporter. I haven't heard back, but I hope something comes of it. I am also going to see if any organizations in town are planning to protest. I'm not doubting the power of one, but it would be nice to not be alone!
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#51 of 59 Old 10-01-2007, 01:45 PM
 
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I'm in Texas and I recieved a link to this conference from someone in our homeschool group.

I remember about 4 years ago my neighbor at the time told me she had this great "christian" way to discipline her children (was having problems with dd at the time) and that I could borrow the videos. I was APPALLED. They really do hit little babies for pulling their hair, or for continuing to poke their nose or what have you. I just couldn't believe this stuff was advocated and that they were "allowed" to preach this stuff. Needless to say, I gave her the tapes back. As I observed her more I noticed that she used glue sticks (like from a hot glue gun) to "whip" her then 1 yr old. She did it ALL the time for things he wouldn't even possibly understand...and when you do it all the time for every little thing it doesn't mean anything anyway. I as so sad for that little boy.

I have to say, I was spanked and taught that it was the right thing to do. I don't spank my children. They are *good* kids and they listen, and respect us and others. Our neighbors (different ones) spank their kids and I have to say....those kids were SO rude to my children and disrespectful to the adults, and out of control. Obviously it. is. not. working.

Ugh! I'm willing to bet a lot of people wind up going to this thing because Belton/Temple/Salado and surrounding areas are small towns and almost everybody is a traditional Christian.

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#52 of 59 Old 10-01-2007, 05:02 PM
 
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I live in San Antonio and emailed my favorite reporter. I haven't heard back, but I hope something comes of it. I am also going to see if any organizations in town are planning to protest. I'm not doubting the power of one, but it would be nice to not be alone!
Have you tried posting in the tribal areas?, there might be some support there. I just moved from San Antonio 4 months ago to California, so I can't make it!
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#53 of 59 Old 10-07-2007, 06:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2shy2post View Post
The Killeen Daily Herald responded to my e-mail alerting them to the Pearls. They are going to write a story and would like me to comment.
So, did they write a story?

What happened at the 10/3 event? Any protesters, or media coverage?
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#54 of 59 Old 10-07-2007, 07:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by laoxinat View Post
Okay, as a Buddhist monk, I am not a biblical scholar. But don't Christians profess to follow the new testament? And didn't the new testament supercede the old? I am asking honestly, because I sincerely want to understand. IS there anything in the new testament that advocates corporal punishment? My take on such things as "spare the rod" means NOT to make use of it. And "suffer the little children" means tolerate them. Somehow, I do not see Jesus EVER in ANY way saying hurting ANYONE is acceptable. KWIM?
laoxinat

Most Christians follow both the Old & New Testements - but the "spare the rod" verse is taken out of context by those who use it to condone abuse. The "rod of discipline" that shepherds used (and still use) was not something to hit or strike the sheep. It was a gentle guide. They might use it to direct the sheep back towards the fold. It isn't necessary to reject that passage - but to see it for what it is instead: an admonishment to give your children gentle guidance. Sadly, many churches teach otherwise
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#55 of 59 Old 10-08-2007, 09:13 PM
 
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I have posted on every forum I could think of here in San Antonio to see if anyone is organizing a protest for tonight. I came up empty. I was even going to go with a friend, but my youngest is sick and I should be here in case he wakes and needs mom. I feel frustrated by some of the apathy I find here in San Antonio. No, it's not everyone. But, I fear there are more Pro-Pearl people here than people like me. I will look for media coverage, but I will be surprised to see any.

I'm sad.
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#56 of 59 Old 10-08-2007, 09:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaken View Post
So, did they write a story?

What happened at the 10/3 event? Any protesters, or media coverage?
Here's the story: http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=19127

No one even told me they wrote it. I had to search. I'm really pleased with the quotes they took from me. Though, admittedly, they were "borrowed" from other, wiser, individuals (many here!).

I'm also happy the quotes they chose from the Pearls. They don't appear in a favorable light in my opinion... ("lesbian homeschoolers" what the heck???)

Couldn't find anything about a protest or anything.
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#57 of 59 Old 10-09-2007, 12:18 AM
 
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I am very happy to see this thread. These people are disgusting, and need to be stopped. :

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#58 of 59 Old 10-13-2007, 09:38 AM
 
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Seriously... there are enough 'followers' in the states to keep these sickos in business? That's whacked. Let's keep up the noise 'til these backwater childbeaters roll back into whatever swamp they came from.
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#59 of 59 Old 10-13-2007, 11:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pariah View Post
SarahLi, those things from their website are just disgusting...I feel gross from even reading it.
I do too. :

Oh, I've been giving their books bad reviews on every website I can find as well.
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