I find the pro-lifers' support of this bill morally repugnant and horrifying. I can not immagine anything more evil than being willing to kill a woman for the sake of rigid adherance to pro-life ideology. |
Originally posted by MotherNatrsSon Are you saying that an adult female should have no choice in making a decision about something that IS part of her body? do you think any reasonable person, in this case female, would chose an abortion if she really did not have to? MNS |
Originally posted by TiredX2
Why should a mother HAVE to have major abdominal surgery to allow a child to be born alive that can't live?
why should the mother be afforded more rights than the child? most of us here, i would say at least 90%, are ADAMANT that it is a child's BIRTHRIGHT to be nourished, for as long as he wants, by the milk from his mother's breasts. & yet you can advocate abortion, saying the mother has the RIGHT to control HER body. what if a mother just doesn't want to use HER breasts to feed her infant?
i am genuinely confused.
HOWEVER, to answer the OP, yes, i think partial birth abortion should be illegal. i think 2nd trimester abortion should be illegal. i think having an abortion when you are one week pregnant should be illegal.
but that is just me. i realize i am in the minority. but i am here.
Originally posted by joesmom Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention & The Allen Guttmacher Institute |
Originally posted by me&3 My sister ended a pregnancy at 15 weeks, with unbelievable agony and heartache. It was a very much wanted child, but tragically, it was not viable. She was told by her doctors that there was actual danger to her own life if she would carry to term, and the baby would never live. Very sorrowfully, she and my bil decided to terminate. I am aghast that there is no provision in the law for something of this kind. |
the person performing the abortion -- `(A) deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother, for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and `(B) performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus |
I find the pro-lifers' support of this bill morally repugnant and horrifying. I can not immagine anything more evil than being willing to kill a woman for the sake of rigid adherance to pro-life ideology. |
Originally posted by grisandole My opinion, and this will go a bit OT since I really want to address what Barbara is saying about crisis preg. centers. I think that it's gross and wrong to have a partial birth abortion BUT in the medically necessary cases mentioned above, they should absolutely have that right.....though I wonder the same thing as Celestial- why can't they stop the heart before the actual procedure? So, imo, if it's medically necessary it should be legal. But, if it isn't, I don't agree with it. Just my opinion. About crisis preg centers- I've been thinking about them alot lately because I really want to start one in my area. I feel that there are women who are scared/poor/confused, etc. that would certainly choose keeping the baby over having an abortion if they had help (both emotional and financial) from caring people at a crisis preg. center. That being said, the majority of centers that I'm aware of seem to offer mimimal financial assistance; and what help is offered has tons of strings attached, usually in the form of religion being shoved down the mom's throat. Now, I'm not anti religion, or anti Christianity; and I don't care if a preg center preaches or anything. BUT, a lot only offer help if the women start going to meetings or church or such; and if a family "takes in" a pregnant woman, they are again, usually very religious and force it on the woman. I say this not as a generalization; Ive seen it. One woman I know who did this (took in pregnant women, not teens but adults) had curfews for the moms, they HAD to go to church and bible study, and couldn't have men over at all. Now, I can agree with not wanting a buch of guys over your house, but curfews and "morality" standards for a grown woman, come on!!! The local crisis preg center doesn't give things away, the women have to earn them by earning what they call "mommie bucks"; each time the woman shows up for a parenting class, appointment, BIBLE STUDY, etc, they get $1 in mommie bucks. The can then spend them at the "store"; outfits are 1-2 dollars, car seats are 10; A heck of alot of crap to go through for used clothes and car seats. And ime, these women are also encouraged to give their babies up for adoption instead of keeping them. So, my rambling point is that crisis preg centers don't help the way they need to. What would work is offering free clothes, strollers, cribs, etc; parenting/breastfeeding info; and most importantly- helping these women financially- and that can be as simple as helping them apply for state health care, welfare, food stamps, housing, etc. Many women aren't informed about their options, and if they had someone helping them maybe they could get some help and actually make it. Ugh. I'm sorry, I do believe that crisis preg centers are well intended, but are pushing their own agenda; and to say "Well, they can get help there" is such a cop out. A few free outfits doesn't help pay the bills. Sorry for rambling; this is my issue at the moment; I'd really like to start a "REAL" crisis preg center someday Kristi |
Originally posted by mahdokht If you have something legitimate to contribute, then by all means do so. If you can do nothing but accuse those who disagree with of being ignorant and/or uneducated then you might as well keep your opinions to yourself. They really aren't worth being aired. |
Originally posted by gardenmommy Can someone please tell me why it is okay for one person to decide when it is acceptable to end another's life? Who has the right to decide that an individual, born or unborn, is not worthy to live? If an unborn child is not a person, than it does not matter what is done to the tissue growing within the woman's body. If an unborn child is a person, than it is wrong to end its life, even if that is accomplished using so-called "humane" methods. We can't have it both ways: either the fetus is a person, with rights, or it isn't a person, in which case it doesn't matter what we do with it. |
Originally posted by Nursing Mother You ask some good questions Gardenmommy. Just imagine what PETA would say to someone who performed an abortion on an animal, just because the owner didn't want to bother with a baby animal. Good Gosh!! Can you imagine the outrage. What determines if it is a "fetus" or "baby" is of course the will of the mother. Way down deep I think many many women can and do see the damage that abortion does, not only to their psyche, but of course to the life of the baby. Of course most won't ever admit that a death has been wrought at the hand of an abortion Dr.... its just to painful to admit.....and the biggest denial ever I believe is when abortion is pooh poohed as not a big deal, or not really "killing a baby". The world (our country) will soon pay for the massacre and holocaust of millions of children....its just a matter of time as God said "vengence is mine............I pity and grieve for what is coming, but we humans who take things into our own hands and play god will deserve it, every bit of it.....that is unless there is forgiveness , repentance, and change, on the side of those who do these evil acts. .....but of course most of you know my POV, I have a sister who is a director of a CPC ( Crisis preg. center).... and believe me they DO support, care, and minister to the pregnant women up and through until the baby is born and then help the women with adoption and/or single motherhood. They even pay for medical care, transportation, etc. SHe (my sister) has had many young mothers stay at her home and has arranged hundreds of mothers to stay in home of caring people who actually pay and provide financial and emotional support. I personally know many families who minister in that way. It is a quiet ministry happening all over this country, yet you hear nothing about it, because the people are not out for publicity. Just out to back up their words of with actions. |
Originally posted by skellbelle I don't believe that. Do you have objective stats to back up that statement? |
Originally posted by Nursing Mother . Just imagine what PETA would say to someone who performed an abortion on an animal, just because the owner didn't want to bother with a baby animal. Good Gosh!! Can you imagine the outrage. . |
Why should a mother HAVE to have major abdominal surgery to allow a child to be born alive that can't live? |
I find the pro-lifers' support of this bill morally repugnant and horrifying. I can not immagine anything more evil than being willing to kill a woman for the sake of rigid adherance to pro-life ideology. |
What would work is offering free clothes, strollers, cribs, etc; parenting/breastfeeding info; and most importantly- helping these women financially- and that can be as simple as helping them apply for state health care, welfare, food stamps, housing, etc. |
the person performing the abortion -- `(A) deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother, for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and `(B) performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus |