What causes autism? - Page 9 - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-06-2006, 02:58 PM
 
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What sort of hearing tests are they given, Krissi?
Tympanogram and audiogram are the most common.

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In my view, Georgie would have had a grim future without it, but some parents say that autism is just "a different way of thinking", and any treatment is seen as a form of child abuse, in fact some go as far as to say that if parents try to find a cure for their child's autism, they don't love them.(BS)
We're starting to see some of this attitude too and I agree it is total BS. They call it "neurodiversity" and try to say that people with autism are fine as they are. I could understand this for someone with a mild case of Asperger Syndrome who was diagnosed as an adult and able to live independently without supports, but then they try to apply that across the board as if everyone with ASD has the same experience, ignoring that many kids with autism are indeed sick and need treatment.

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Seeing as this thread is on the Vaccination Forum, I was thinking more along the lines of regressive autism after vaccination. I chose those "autistic behaviours" in particular because they are evident in people who are brain damaged or have major difficulties with hearing or vision.
Good point. And returning to another angle with more of a vax connection, I would love to see more research done on how vaxing fundamentally changes the immune system and how immune hypersensitivity may interact with gut dysbiosis. The last few days in my own research quest I've been sifting through articles that mention how people with autoimmune disease like my own have hyperresponsivity to vaccines. I've often wondered if some kind of interplay exists with immune response and gut flora. What if, for example, some of those bacteria vaccines like Hib in a person with a hypersensitive immune system caused the immune system to attack beneficial types of bacteria too and that was what led to serious gut imbalances? If anyone knows of research that explores this possibility or an explanation for why it couldn't be true, I'd love to read more. This may be a stupid question that's already been discussed elsewhere but I've only been seriously reading about this type of stuff for about 9 months.
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Old 06-06-2006, 07:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by krissi
And returning to another angle with more of a vax connection, I would love to see more research done on how vaxing fundamentally changes the immune system and how immune hypersensitivity may interact with gut dysbiosis. The last few days in my own research quest I've been sifting through articles that mention how people with autoimmune disease like my own have hyperresponsivity to vaccines. I've often wondered if some kind of interplay exists with immune response and gut flora. What if, for example, some of those bacteria vaccines like Hib in a person with a hypersensitive immune system caused the immune system to attack beneficial types of bacteria too and that was what led to serious gut imbalances? If anyone knows of research that explores this possibility or an explanation for why it couldn't be true, I'd love to read more. This may be a stupid question that's already been discussed elsewhere but I've only been seriously reading about this type of stuff for about 9 months.
Okay, so lets run with this, since I've been wondering how to tackle this subject, because its important to know in the context of autism.

There are several aspects to this, so lets look at some of them:

Dan Olmstead has hit one on the head when he talked about one of Kanner children having got a smallpox vaccine at the age of 15 months, and then "regressed":

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/l..._Pox_--_Part_6
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Kanner`s paper appeared in 1943 in the quaintly named journal The Nervous Child. Kanner believed autism was 'inborn,' present from birth. But if any of his detailed case histories suggest otherwise, it is Richard M.

There is no mention of 'going backward' by the parents of the other 10 children, making Richard the first plausibly regressive case of autism ever described in medical literature.

Thirty-eight years later, in 1976, an article appeared in a German medical journal under the title 'Autistiches Syndrom (Kanner) und Pockenschutzimpfung.' Translation: Autistic Syndrome (Kanner) and Vaccination against Smallpox.

The English abstract reads:

'3-4 weeks following an otherwise uncomplicated first vaccination against smallpox a boy, then aged 15 months ... gradually developed a complete Kanner syndrome. The question whether vaccination and early infantile autism might be connected is being discussed. A causal relationship is considered extremely unlikely. But vaccination is recognized as having a starter function for the onset of autism.'

U.S. health authorities emphatically reject the idea of any such 'starter function' -- they cite multiple studies that have found no cause-and-effect relationship whatsoever between immunizations and autism.

Smallpox vaccine was a pretty disgusting mix, scratched on to the outside of the arm, and while it didn't have any mercury of aluminium it was absolutely loaded with contaminants and made in a manner which would be unthinkable today, or should I say, people wouldn't "think" that something could be made that crudely.

So, what was the mechanism there? Infection into the brain?

How did that happen after a vaccine at the age of 15 months?

It would be interesting to know, for instance, what state Michael lived in.

For those who have studied the epidemic neuropathy in Cuba in the 90's, which the USA CDC first thought was polio, you will know that the residents of Guatamala Bay, while they also "caught" the Coxsackie virus, smoked and drank moonshine, had a diet high in selenium and other protective nutrients which studies later showed had protected them from any paralysis and neuronal damage.

We also know that selenium deficiency makes the flu worse, and increases the virulence of it, and its no coincidence that bird flu in both humans and bird is in areas of the world seriously selenium deficient.

Did Michael in Dan Olmsted's article live in a Selenium deficient State within USA?

http://www.saanendoah.com/map1.html

Did he have a mouth full of Amalgams and mercury overload?

http://www.*********/vaccine/quotes19.html
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"I think that the biological case against Thimerosal is so dramatically overwhelming anymore that only a very foolish or a very dishonest person with the credentials to understand this research would say that Thimerosal wasn't most likely the cause of autism."--- Interview of Dr. Boyd E. Haley by Teri Small:
Then you have the Burbacher study which looked at mercury in the brain of monkeys which backs that up as one strand of the puzzle.

another quote from above
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Toxic dentistry "A major cause of the Roman Empire's decline, after six centuries of world dominance was its replacement of stone aqueducts by lead pipes for the transport and supply of drinking water. Roman engineers, the best in the world, turned their fellow citizens into cripples. Today our own "best and brightest," with the best of intentions, achieve the same end through childhood vaccination programmes yielding the modern scourges of hyperactivity, learning disabilities, autism, appetite disorders, and impulsive violence."--Harris Coulter
America still has huge lead poisoning problems so what is the role of that in Autism?

then you have the MMR connection and I find it ironic that all Andrew Wakefield's detractors can come up with is looking where they shouldn't. Why is this researcher looking in the blood and not for MMR viruses in the gut and brain?

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/533545

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NEW YORK (Reuters Health) May 31 - Contrary to the findings of some earlierstudies, measles virus genetic material was not detected in the blood ofMMR-vaccinated autistic children with development regression, according toa report in the Journal of Medical Virology for May.

A possible link between MMR vaccination and autism was first noted in a report released in 1998. Since then, several epidemiologic studies, conducted in various countries, have found no support for this association. However, in recent years, the controversy again surfaced as researchers reported finding measles virus genomic fragments in tissue samples taken from autistic children.

In the present study, Dr. M. A. Afzal, from the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control in *************, UK, and colleagues used several assays to test for measles genome sequences in leukocyte preparations obtained from 15 children with autism who had received the MMR vaccine as part of the routine immunization schedule in the UK.

There was no evidence of measles genomic fragments in any of the children, by any of the methods used. The authors emphasize that the methods were "highly sensitive, specific, and robust" and were capable of detecting "measles virus RNA down to single figure copy numbers per reaction."

Given the rigorous methods employed, the researchers believe that measles virus material genuinely did not exist in the patient's blood samples. Moreover, "all children examined in this study responded positively to MMR vaccine and developed a normal immune response to the measles component of the vaccine."

J Med Virology 2006;78:623-630.
The least they could do is, like these people look in the right place!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...28/ixnews.html

Then another aspect to this has to be the role that aluminium in vaccines plays in deranging the immune system.

Revise this, from this post:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...29&postcount=7

Is it any wonder then, that you see this?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...114328,00.html

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THE number of children treated for life-threatening allergies to peanuts and other foods has more than doubled in five years, according to government research.

Figures from the Department of Health show the number of Adrenalin injections prescribed for children under six suffering severe allergic reactions rose from 15,100 to 37,235 between 1999 and 2004, an increase of 146%.

Jon Cruddas, MP for Dagenham and a member of the Anaphylaxis Campaign, a charity that lobbies for greater awareness of the condition, said: “These figures confirm what we have been saying for a while, which is that this is a growing problem. All the evidence points in one direction, which is a sudden and radical increase of anaphylaxis in the country.”
So you can see how in some children, aluminium could be one of the MAJOR components of allergy sensitization today, and all of you have seen articles posted here about the huge increase in allergies today. But what does aluminium also do to antigen components within a vaccine? Might it also set the body up to reacting to compounds in subsequent shots unrelated to food allergens?

then, don't forget this article here:

http://www.straight.com/Print_Page.cfm?id=16717
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Vaccines show sinister side
By pieta woolley

Publish Date: 23-Mar-2006


If two dozen once-jittery mice at UBC are telling the truth postmortem, the world’s governments may soon be facing one hell of a lawsuit. New, so-far-unpublished research led by Vancouver neuroscientist Chris Shaw shows a link between the aluminum hydroxide used in vaccines, and symptoms associated with Parkinson’s, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, or Lou Gehrig’s disease), and Alzheimer’s.

Shaw is most surprised that the research for his paper hadn’t been done before. For 80 years, doctors have injected patients with aluminum hydroxide, he said, an adjuvant that stimulates immune response.

“This is suspicious,” he told the Georgia Straight in a phone interview from his lab near Heather Street and West 12th Avenue. “Either this [link] is known by industry and it was never made public, or industry was never made to do these studies by Health Canada. I’m not sure which is scarier.”

Similar adjuvants are used in the following vaccines, according to Shaw’s paper: hepatitis A and B, and the Pentacel cocktail, which vaccinates against diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, polio, and a type of meningitis

To test the link theory, Shaw and his four-scientist team from UBC and Louisiana State University injected mice with the anthrax vaccine developed for the first Gulf War. Because Gulf War Syndrome looks a lot like ALS, Shaw explained, the neuroscientists had a chance to isolate a possible cause. All deployed troops were vaccinated with an aluminum hydroxide compound. Vaccinated troops who were not deployed to the Gulf developed similar symptoms at a similar rate, according to Shaw.

After 20 weeks studying the mice, the team found statistically significant increases in anxiety (38 percent); memory deficits (41 times the errors as in the sample group); and an allergic skin reaction (20 percent). Tissue samples after the mice were “sacrificed” showed neurological cells were dying. Inside the mice’s brains, in a part that controls movement, 35 percent of the cells were destroying themselves.
So there are obviously other things that Aluminium does, both as per the other post, and things not yet researched...

Also, I have another question. If mercury, AND aluminium can do damage independantly, what can they do together? What happens if you add flouride in the water (which potentiates aluminium in the water supply and makes it radically more toxic) and add in pesticides: There was this one, which I can't find a URL for:
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Daily Mail Saturday 25th March 2006

Pesticides and Jabs 'to Blame for Autism Rise'

FIGURES SHOW RECORD NUMBERS OF CHILDREN ARE DIAGNOSED
FIONA MACRAE - Science Reporter


RECORD numbers of children are being treated for autism, figures have revealed.

More than 6,000 under-16s were diagnosed with the condition last year more than twice the number of new cases in the late Nineties.

The number of adults with autism and related conditions is also on the rise, bringing the total number of new cases in Britain in 2004-2005 to a record 9,170.

However the government figures which only take into account diagnoses by hospital consultants are likely to be the tip of the iceberg.

Other studies have estimated that as many as one in 150 children may have autism or related conditions such as Asperger's Syndrome.

Autism charities say the increase can be explained by a growing awareness of the condition. However, others believe the rise is linked to the MMR jab and even to chemicals found in pesticides. The MMR vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella hit the headlines in the late Nineties following research which linked it to autism and bowel disorders.

Although the research has been much disputed, take-up of the triple vaccine remains low, with many parents remain convinced it is linked to autism.

Paul Shattock, from the Autism Research Unit at Sunderland University, believes the vaccine has played a role in the surge of cases. He said: 'I am convinced the MMR jab is one factor in a small percentage of children but it does not explain the whole increase.'

He is also looking at a possible link between pesticide chemicals called organophospates and autism.

But the National Autistic Society said the increase in cases is likely to be explained by heightened awareness of the condition. A spokesman said: 'There are no known causes of autism and no known cure. But what we do know is that awareness has increased significantly among professionals and the public.

'I suspect a large proportion of the increase can be put down to the fact that people are just more conscious of the condition.'

The charity has been training health professionals to recognise the symptoms of autism at an earlier stage in a child's life. It estimates that around half-a-million children and adults in the UK have autism, although the majority remain undiagnosed.

'If health professionals continue to recognise autism symptoms, then the numbers will continue to increase,' the spokesman said.

The latest figures were revealed in response to a parliamentary answer to Tory health spokesman Andrew Lansley. They show that 6,170 children under 16 were diagnosed in hospital last year twice the 3,100 diagnosed in 1997 to 1998.

Among those aged 16 or over the numbers jumped from 1,110 to 3,000 in the same period.

Autism is a developmental disability that affects the way a person communicates and interacts with other people.

Although associated with childhood, the condition lasts into adult life, making ordinary activities like socialising difficult. It can also be found in highly intelligent individuals.

Some experts believe Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton both suffered a form of autism.

A Department of Health spokesman said techniques for diagnosing autism has improved greatly in recent years.

He added: 'There is no link between autism levels and the MMR vaccine. MMR remains the best form of protection against measles, mumps and rubella.'

[email protected]
But if you put the title in Google it has been mentioned elsewhere.

given that they don't KNOW what vaccines do in the body apart from antibody production... see here:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...al-2305100.php
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Vaccines work simply by producing antibodies, right? Well, probably not. And this misconception coupled with basic ignorance of how they do work is stalling the urgent quest for an AIDS vaccine, claim leading HIV researchers. They say no one has bothered to find out how highly successful vaccines like polio, measles and hepatitis B actually protect people from disease.

"I'm amazed by the amount of basic science we don't know," Philippe Kourilsky, director of the Paris-based Pasteur Institute, told the meeting: "We've had many successful vaccines over the past decades but we've missed a chance to see how these vaccines work. Each time a vaccine works the scientific community wanders off and leaves it to the public health workers to use it-and fails to invest in the research. If we had done that we would have been in a much better position to tackle the AIDS vaccine problem."
HOW....... are we going to sort out what does what?

It is obvious to me that vaccines play not just a major role in Autism for many children, but a whole spectrum of allergic or autoimmune conditions unrelated to autism in other children.

Seemingly, though, there are children who can have all these vaccines and NOT be affected. Why is that?

To research the issue, scientists would have to look at WHAT vaccines do in the body, keeping in mind that there will be so many variants of that, that its impossible to have a one size fits all answer to all children, and they would also have to research in in four catagories. Formula fed, breastfed, developed world, third world countries.

Though I'm sure there would also be sub catagories in that, like socioeconomic factors, education and a whole raft of things to make it even more complicated.

The point is, where do you as a parent start in trying to unravel the problem for your child?

For many parents they can point directly at situations involving toxic drugs, lead, vaccines which are all epigenetic in nature.

I would be interested in hearing what you think, out of all that, might be relevant in your case, Krissi.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 06-06-2006, 07:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
If you mean brain damaged, then all brain damaged people exhibit behaviours which might now be classified as autism spectrum disorders.
So, finally, the answer is - all of them.

But along with the blind and the deaf, they are not diagnosed with autism nor an autistic spectrum disorder, despite odd behaviours which look to the outsider as typically autistic - because it is known that for them these behaviours are coping behaviours - (and they don't meet the criteria).

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So do some Down's Syndrome children.The boundaries are now so blurred that I think that is adding to the confusion.
Yes, some children with Down Syndrome also have a diagnosis of autism. Some with Fragile X also have a diagnosis of autism. They are additional diagnoses. Not the cause of the Autism.

Unless things have changed radically in the last few years, a diagnosis of autism is still generally made on a brief history of the child and observation of their behaviour. Pediatricians then tell parents that this is a life-long disorder with no known cause nor cure, and suggest they join a support group.

What a useless diagnosis! And what a hopeless prognosis!

As, I believe that "Autism" is a convenient umbrella term for brain damage - physical and/or functional, I think that when a normally-developing child regresses after a vaccine and gets that diagnosis, parents should ask why their child's brain is no longer functioning properly. And, if it applies, they should also ask why their child developed gut problems after vaccination, and what can be done about it.

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I don't know the answers to any of the questions you ask.
But you said "many" of the children with ASD you are "seeing now" are unvaccinated. In my view, your relationship with these children needed clarifying and so did your knowledge of them. It's a pity that you don't know how many there are in the group, how old they are, and how many are unvaccinated.

Unless times have changed, Dr Tony Attwood, the Australasian autism and ADD expert refuses to diagnose children with Aspergers Syndrome before the age of seven - and yet I know that infants of two and three years of age are now being diagnosed. I ask myself, "Why?"

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For a child to have a seizure disorder, there has to be an underlying condition in order for them to prescribe drugs. <snip> I think it would be unfair to blame the medication <snip> Having said that when you look at seizure medication, one of the side effects listed is seizures.
I think that's what both mothers suspected. Their children started medication after one epileptic fit and the number of seizures increased. Another NT young man I knew became zombie-like and permanently deaf after starting anti-epileptic medication at fourteen after one seizure. I don't know if the eleven-year-old scar on his brain from a car accident could be described as an underlying condition, as such. But it might.

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if you assume that all autism is caused by mercury in vaccines, for every 1 child, 149 don't get autism from the mercury in their vaccines.
I don't assume that all autism is caused by mercury in vaccines.

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Have you read the basis of epigenetics and methylation?
Yes. Thank goodness that they, the Geiers, Dr Boyd Hayley, Dr Mady Hornig, Dr Andrew Wakefield, Dr Vijendra Singh, Dr Mary Megson and all the other researchers didn't turn to parents of children with autism and say, "Shit happens!" They want to help the children.

A while back, Jen123 asked me if I was in the "mercury doesn't cause autism crowd." and I replied, "Definitely not".
I would like to add here that I do not belong to any of the following crowds: "MMR only", "mercury only", "genes only", "deranged immune-system only", "gut dysbiosis only", or any other "'this cause' onlys"

...and the reason is that some children recover from "Autism" with the gfcf diet alone, Applied Behaviour Analysis alone, homeopathy alone, Auditory Integrated Training alone, and so on. Some children need more than one mode of treatment to recover because their brains are damaged differently. Some children never recover completely. And some never recover at all.

If the actual cause of the behaviours isn't found, how can the children be cured? For instance, it would be useless chelating a child for mercury toxicity if she acquired autism from a severe head injury or measles encephalitis.

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This study here: might indicate that the removal of mercury from vaccines has reduced autism...
I think it does indicate that.

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by removing the trigger of whatever mechanism it is, as hypothesised by Dr Boyd Haley, i.e. Apo-E 4, and perhaps others.....
Did the monkeys in the Burbacher study have the Apo-e 4 gene? Or the mice in Dr Hornig's study?

For some children the effect of mercury on the gut might be more significant.

http://www.highbeam.com/library/docf...G%3AResult&ao=
"Inorganic mercurial compounds are notorious for gut injury in humans."

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Yes, Shit happens. What do you do when shit happens? Sit there, blame everyone and get a stomach ulcer?
No. When parents are certain that their child can be helped on the road to recovery, they spend a lot of time, effort and money trying to help them, like Blessed and others on this forum.

But parents shouldn't have to do this kind of research.

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What is the difference?
Personally, I'd rather have a child with an inherited immunodeficiency than give birth to a normal child who regressed at eighteen months, two, three, five or twelve years old after a vaccine that I was coerced into believing was safe for them and could protect them from killer diseases and brain-damage. And although the child doesn't actually die, believe me, it is like a bereavement. But we shall have to disagree on that one, MT.

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So, if you have a child with, say, APO-E4 gene, and get a child vaccinated, then there is a chance of heavy metal toxicity. Most parents don't know that, so they might consider it solely the vaccines fault.
Aren't you agreeing here with vaccine manufacturers who say their vaccines are safe? That there was something wrong with the children in the first place?

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But for me, if I had a child with an APO-E4 genetype and knowing that, if I vaccinated and my child got autism as a result, do I blame the vaccine, or the fact that children with APO-E 4 can't excrete mercury and it was the methylation effect of that gene that resulted in mercury poisoning, therefore autism?
The vaccine of course, because parents were told that the vaccine was safe for "their" child. That nonsensical and downright dangerous one-size-fits-all mentality.

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There is no difference to the two examples in my mind. Should the medical profession know all these things? Technically yes, but you and I both know that they don't want to know and don't give a toss. And accept no responsibility or accountability for it. And most parents trust them.
Trust and Fear are the biggest factors in compliance.

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True. And therefore, because they chose to trust others to make the right choices for them, they feel that its right for them to blame those doctors and governments for the fact that their children are damaged. Problem is, the doctors and government don't see it that way. So what do they do then, apart from feeling that its all unjust and unfair?
They can't do anything because the main aim of governments and doctors is to eradicate disease. The 'few' casualties in their War against Disease, are viewed as nothing more than collateral damage.

Some years ago a mother spent three hours on the phone telling me about her son who'd reacted to his MMR vaccine and become autistic and asked me what she could do to help him. I sent her a pile of information.

Three weeks later, she rang to thank me very much for all the info but she'd taken it to the doctor who told her the MMR is safe and doesn't cause autism. He then reminded her that her son had tumbled off a (plastic-seated) swing (onto grass) at about eighteen months of age and bumped his head. She said, "Of course, that was IT!"

It was much easier for her to blame a simple accident than it was to accept that she had been instrumental in damaging her child. That's fine for her. But I felt that if the MMR had caused her son's autism and gut problems, she could have done so much more for him. And, naturally, she would carry on vaccinating him and her other children.

I am glad that so many parents and researchers started questioning vaccine ingredients and pointing the finger of blame, otherwise the high profile that autism has today wouldn't exist. There would be no research into it's causes - and possible cures.

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He has dyslexia, which means its almost impossible for him to pass exams because though he knows the work, there is never enough time for him to write enough down.
Yes, it must be difficult for him, MT. But I wasn't talking about sitting exams here. I was talking about what most people consider to be "a normal life".

Many children with autism can't even speak or communicate their basic needs.

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Yes, there is a sense where I could say that if I'd had this son vaccinated he could be vaccine damaged, and I might be in that situation where he had to go into a group-home or an institution.
Yes, but you didn't vaccinate. And he doesn't have to.

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Do you think that its right for parents to "blame" the doctors they chose to trust for the outcome?
Yes, if the child had reactions to every vaccine - such as fever, swelling around the injection site, persistent crying, irritability, somnolence, anorexia, diarrhea, seizures - that were not recorded because the doctor believed they were "insignificant". And his nurses kept telling the parents that the reactions "were normal and nothing to worry about" or "a coincidence". If all they got were, "Give him paracetamol", "Put a cold flannel on his leg", "Watch him carefully" and - "Keep to the vaccination schedule or he won't be fully protected".

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Just say your son had a problem and the doctor wanted you to do something, and you said no, and it turned to custard. Do you then blame the doctor for not forcing you to do what he had suggested, even though the outcome might have been the same?
No.

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Where do the boundaries of personal responsibilities to ourselves and our children begin and end?
The responsibility should always lie with the parent who makes an informed choice. Most parents with vaccine-damaged children didn't know there was a choice. It was Vaccinate or your child will die! Fail, and your child could be responsible for a deadly epidemic!

Fear is a mighty powerful motivator.

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That too, is an individual choice. Some people consider doctors to be in loco parentis, except the parentis in loco, is never in loco when things go wrong.
How true!

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About three months ago, someone started a thread here saying that she was going to go ahead and vaccinate becuase that way, if everything we said here could go wrong, did go wrong, it would be the fault of the person who recommended it
If things did go wrong, whoever-recommended-what wouldn't alter the fact that she is now living with a handicapped child - and NOT the person who recommended it.

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And I'd take that risk with a metal machine that I know could replaced, but I'd not use the same level of trust of decision making with a body that can't be replaced or re-cycled. The two scenarios for me, don't even come in the same orbit of "risk-analysis"
Of course they don't. A child is precious. But the subject was "blame".

To continue with the analogy, as poor as it is: Now you're out of pocket, you can't afford another car and have to start taking the bus everywhere.

The normal, ordinary lifestyle you took for granted completely changes. Your social life changes, you might not even have the energy to have one, and the friends you and your family had before, start finding excuses for not visiting.

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I also feel that the only way for parents of Autistic children to move forwards is to flick the rear vision mirror to one side
That's very difficult for parents to do when Autism stares them in the face all day.

How about if your once-upon-a-time-typical, now-autistic child screeches every three minutes, around the clock for years and years - and years? Could you block your ears to that, MT?

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and try to retrieve their children in any way possible. There are many here who are in the process of doing that, or who have done that. In the end, its the future that matters in a world that won't accept blame.
Sometimes when the effects of drugs are undeniable, manufacturers and governments have to accept the blame. As in the case of Thalidomide, for example:

http://www.solbaram.org/articles/sclrsp.html
SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, PROFITS AND SOCIAL ACCOUNTABILITY.

....but physical deformity caused by drugs is so much more horrifying than children who look normal but act strangely, isn't it? Isn't it?
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Old 06-06-2006, 08:04 PM
 
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Originally posted by Sherlock 007

No. When parents are certain that their child can be helped on the road to recovery, they spend a lot of time, effort and money trying to help them, like Blessed and others on this forum.

But parents shouldn't have to do this kind of research.
True. But the fact is that we do have to do this level of research whether we think we should or not.

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Aren't you agreeing here with vaccine manufacturers who say their vaccines are safe? That there was something wrong with the children in the first place?
No, I'm being a realist.

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The vaccine of course, because parents were told that the vaccine was safe for "their" child. That nonsensical and downright dangerous one-size-fits-all mentality.
That's right. It also applies to antibiotics. What does a mother say when a doctor says "This antibiotic is safe" and the child nearly dies of anaphylaxis. This sort of one-mindedness exists in all areas of medicine, not just vaccines.

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They can't do anything because the main aim of governments and doctors is to eradicate disease. The 'few' casualties in their War against Disease, are viewed as nothing more than collateral damage.

Some years ago a mother spent three hours on the phone telling me about her son who'd reacted to his MMR vaccine and become autistic and asked me what she could do to help him. I sent her a pile of information.

Three weeks later, she rang to thank me very much for all the info but she'd taken it to the doctor who told her the MMR is safe and doesn't cause autism. He then reminded her that her son had tumbled off a (plastic-seated) swing (onto grass) at about eighteen months of age and bumped his head. She said, "Of course, that was IT!"

It was much easier for her to blame a simple accident than it was to accept that she had been instrumental in damaging her child. That's fine for her. But I felt that if the MMR had caused her son's autism and gut problems, she could have done so much more for him. And, naturally, she would carry on vaccinating him and her other children.

I am glad that so many parents and researchers started questioning vaccine ingredients and pointing the finger of blame, otherwise the high profile that autism has today wouldn't exist. There would be no research into it's causes - and possible cures.
That is very true.

And another thing. I don't think we will ever see any meaningful research from mainstream medicine, because they are only interested in patents, and ongoing profit.

Quote:
Yes, if the child had reactions to every vaccine - such as fever, swelling around the injection site, persistent crying, irritability, somnolence, anorexia, diarrhea, seizures - that were not recorded because the doctor believed they were "insignificant". And his nurses kept telling the parents that the reactions "were normal and nothing to worry about" or "a coincidence". If all they got were, "Give him paracetamol", "Put a cold flannel on his leg", "Watch him carefully" and - "Keep to the vaccination schedule or he won't be fully protected".
What you are talking about here, isn't the vaccine, its the doctor's behaviour after the vaccine is given.

I've found there is a world of difference between how parents feel, when their doctors admit the reaction, than when their doctors don't. Yes, where a doctor won't admit it, they should be roasted.

Or something.
Quote:
The responsibility should always lie with the parent who makes an informed choice. Most parents with vaccine-damaged children didn't know there was a choice. It was Vaccinate or your child will die! Fail, and your child could be responsible for a deadly epidemic!

Fear is a mighty powerful motivator.
It is the primary motivator, which is why I've concentrated on that in my book, in order to try to antidote the way this pressure is exerted to make parents think solely based on fear, and not on rational thinking.

Quote:
Quote:
About three months ago, someone started a thread here saying that she was going to go ahead and vaccinate becuase that way, if everything we said here could go wrong, did go wrong, it would be the fault of the person who recommended it

If things did go wrong, whoever-recommended-what wouldn't alter the fact that she is now living with a handicapped child - and NOT the person who recommended it.
which is what most people told her, but she still believed that the doctor would "have" to take responsibility.

Quote:
That's very difficult for parents to do when Autism stares them in the face all day.

How about if your once-upon-a-time-typical, now-autistic child screeches every three minutes, around the clock for years and years - and years? Could you block your ears to that, MT?
No I couldn't Sherlock. I'd be shifting heaven and earth to change that equation, using everything I thought was possibly viable to help the child.

Quote:
Sometimes when the effects of drugs are undeniable, manufacturers and governments have to accept the blame. As in the case of Thalidomide, for example:....but physical deformity caused by drugs is so much more horrifying than children who look normal but act strangely, isn't it? Isn't it?
Yes it is, and thalidomide was so much easier to prove.

I can't see a point, right now, where manufacturers of vaccines will accept the blame, since they rarely except the blame for even the most straight forward of issues.

The only thing parents can do, is help lobby, and keep providing people like Dan Olmsted more material for his ongoing series exposing just these sorts of things.

Regarding the children I mentioned that you feel I should have been more careful answering on, perhaps so.

But I think that my thoughts on the issue are reasonably clear, particularly in post number 242 above yours.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 06-07-2006, 05:54 PM
 
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I would be interested in hearing what you think, out of all that, might be relevant in your case, Krissi.
Okay, that's a lot to process. But I'll try my best.

Ya see, all the articles and links that you have posted in post #242 are part of the reason I get so frustrated with the strict thimerosal=autism focus that I see in a lot of places. I think it's blurring what might be the bigger issue and giving people (not referring to those on this board) a false sense of security that now that thimerosal is mostly out of vaxes that it means that vaxes are somehow safe. Thimerosal had little to do with our decision to stop vaxing; I was afraid that vaxes played some kind of role in autoimmune diseases that was yet unproven but nevertheless existent, because of aluminum or unnatural stimulation of the immune system, additives, or whatnot. Discovering that even the IOM had even concluded that there wasn't enough evidence "to accept or reject" the idea that vaxes caused asthma and allergies was the nail in the coffin. Unfortunately don't have a link, but there was even a commentary in which a researcher had concluded that the risk that vaccines would cause asthma was acceptable because asthma was a reasonable price to pay for immunity to infectious disease, etc. That was infuriating to me.

With our family history full of various and sundry autoimmune issues from mild to severe, I only wish I'd bothered to research this BEFORE DD was born and got 6 months of vaxes.

I am more concerned about what we don't know about vaxes than what we do know, because as you pointed out, it seems like we sure don't know much. For DD and her autism, I'm sure that family history plays in. I have outlined so many scenarios in my mind that could have caused it that one might call me obsessed. I got a mild case of food poisoning when I was 6 weeks pregnant (not consistent with listeria or the other known risks), I was on over 2g of aldomet a day during the pregnancy for blood pressure issues, She was induced early because I supposedly had preeclampsia, we both had IV penicillin because I was GBS unknown, they gave her formula in the nursery before my milk came in (although she went on to be 100% breastfed for a long time and is still not weaned), she got the HepB shot the day she was born, she developed kind of bad jaundice, she got 3 IPVs, 3 DTaPs, 3 HIBs, 3 Pneumococcal conjugates, and 2 HepBs...which had to have been an awful lot for a 6-month-old former preemie to process.

I don't see thimerosal being a major player for her situation. But I could see stuff like aluminum being a factor. Or undiscovered side effects of the early vaxes she received, especially given that she was a preemie and thus had an immature immune system to begin with, never mind her apparent genetic predisposition to wonky immune issues. (I'll never understand why doctors are so paranoid about preemies that they tell moms to not take their babies out in public, yet it's perfectly okay to shoot them up with vaxes on a regular schedule without even so much as adjusting for due dates.) Or given that it's already established that my immune system is hyperresponsive, maybe an interplay of whatever antibodies she received from my milk coinciding with the unusual immune response to the vaxes. She did have high circulating IgA in her blood test in April. I was told this was a good thing, but I'm guessing it's really NOT.

It just seems like so much is wrong for her that it would be almost impossible for there to be a single cause. DS and his gut problems are the reason I can't lay the blame exclusively on vaxes. DS never got a vax, but has important dysbiosis issues. He has NO beneficial e.coli in his gut and he has overgrowth of klebsiella pneumoniae---which I now read is correlated with development of ankylosing spondylitis, apparently a type of severe arthritis. He doesn't HAVE this disease yet as far as we can tell, but because I'm obsessed, I read up on it just in case and learned that the popular treatments for this disease are things that should even further upset the balance of the gut--anti-inflammatory drugs and corticosteroids. It's still being attempted to blame the disease on genetics despite evidence that this bacteria is the cause, but even if it were recognized, I'm sure some genius would get the brilliant idea that the solution was to go on antibiotics indefinitely. I am fast approaching to the point that I'm ready to officially consider MD's useless except in the case of stuff like broken legs. And maybe for signing the lab slips to check up on their progress now and then from the dietary and other natural treatments we're pursuing.

Ah well, that's mostly a ramble...I could rant on how frustrated I am with the modern medical profession, but I'll shut up now because I'm hardly the only person on this board to ever have had such thoughts.
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:21 PM
 
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Autism is a hugely difficult complex issue, and figuring our what is what can be a nightmare... but thank you for answering Krissi.

E.coli as a bacteria isn't one I'd call "beneficial" overall. Small amounts of it are, but children are more likely to have too much which can cause major problems, rather than too little, so your son is an exception in that regard.

But that's another topic

Like you, doctors tend to have a minimal part to play in my brain.

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Old 06-07-2006, 09:45 PM
 
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Autism is a hugely difficult complex issue, and figuring our what is what can be a nightmare...
Ain't that the truth? But I feel that understanding all the factors that might have caused it will help with the treatment.

Quote:
E.coli as a bacteria isn't one I'd call "beneficial" overall. Small amounts of it are, but children are more likely to have too much which can cause major problems, rather than too little, so your son is an exception in that regard.
I'm still learning. This was from a CDSA that was measuring a few different types of e.coli and they had it listed as a beneficial bacteria. Our holistic ped wasn't terribly worried about the lack of e.coli but more so about the klebsiella. But you're right, that's another topic.

For anyone reading this thread who is curious about the link between gut flora and autism, this is an excerpt from a must-have book even though it's hard to find. The interventions suggested in this book have been greatly beneficial after just 2 weeks:
http://www.e-f-t.co.uk/gutfloraandpsychology.html
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:28 AM
 
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Prolly too many people looking at that URL couldn't get it to work!

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 06-08-2006, 10:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by krissi
Tympanogram and audiogram are the most common.
Are they adequate, krissi?

They would only detect if the child can hear, not what the child can hear nor how he hears.

The Otoacoustic Emissions Tester, the Berard therapists use, and the Electronic Ear that the Tomatis therapists use, are far more complex:

http://www.aitresources.com/howtest.cfm

http://www.tomatis-group.com/uk/frame.htm


Quote:
http://www.tomatis.net/
In more severe cases speech and language may be delayed, as these children are unable to quickly discriminate and attach meaning to the words spoken to them. Children who don’t process sounds properly don’t respond to verbal cues. They therefore don’t experience the pleasure and power of opening and closing circles of communication, and thus don’t attempt to communicate. They can mispronounce words because they have misheard them. Their social skills can be affected, as they are not processing auditory information at a sufficient speed to respond promptly in two-way verbal exchanges.

Over time, this lack of verbalization deprives the ear of the stimulation it needs for continued fine-tuning—children learn to focus on the human voice above all other sounds by hearing their own voice repeatedly. The human voice may become too complex or difficult for them to process, and so they continue to tune it out. After a while, they are disconnected from the outer world.
"children learn to focus on the human voice above all other sounds by hearing their own voice repeatedly"

Could this be the reason some children with autism have echolalia and maybe even delayed echolalia (reciting scripts)?

I think it was Berard who said, "Hearing equals behaviour."

Quote:
We're starting to see some of this attitude too and I agree it is total BS. They call it "neurodiversity" and try to say that people with autism are fine as they are. I could understand this for someone with a mild case of Asperger Syndrome who was diagnosed as an adult and able to live independently without supports, but then they try to apply that across the board as if everyone with ASD has the same experience, ignoring that many kids with autism are indeed sick and need treatment.
That's right, and all ASD children are different. It would appear that at least some of the neurodiversity activists have diagnosed themselves with Aspergers, others have been retrospectively diagnosed, or had previously been diagnosed with schizophrenia:

http://www.geocities.com/autistry/oddizms.html

Now, if a parent of a newly-diagnosed child researches Autism or Aspergers and comes across a list of famous people, such as is at the following site, why on earth would she want to do anything about the condition? After all, her child might even have a greater chance than most, ordinary mortals, of becoming a famous philosopher, author, painter or other genius. But the reality is that some of them won't even come close to living even an ordinary existence.

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/

http://aspiesforfreedom.com/wiki/ind...eople_with_ASD
Quote:
Famous People with ASD
Albert Einstein, Glenn Gould, Howard Hughes, Thomas Jefferson, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Isaac Newton, J.R.R. Tolkien, Jane Austen, Ludwig van Beethoven, Alexander Graham Bell, Emily Dickinson,Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Thomas Jefferson, Carl Jung, Friedrich Nietzsche, Alfred Hitchcock, Socrates, Leonardo Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, George Mendel, Charles Darwin, Marie Curie (and more)
(Note that among the seven "Notable persons KNOWN to have an autism spectrum disorder" that Stephen Spielburg has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers.)

And the trouble is that ADD sites and other Learning Disability sites include the same famous people on their lists:

http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/...s/famous.shtml

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:K...=en&lr=lang_en
Quote:
"But the positive traits of Asperger’s Syndrome should also be considered. These individuals have been known to be extremely creative, and are responsible for many of the outstanding discoveries of mankind. Although the actual syndrome was unknown by a vast majority of professionals until just in the last decade or so, by reading over information concerning Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, Vincent Van Gogh, Thomas Thoreau, Ansel Adams, and Thomas Jefferson it is easy to recognize the AS traits."
Until the last few years, the only famous person I'd read about who met the criteria for autism, historically, was The "Wild Boy of Averyon". (One can only wonder why he no longer has such a high profile.)

http://www.autismuk.com/index2.htm
Quote:
Historically, it is accepted that individuals displayed autistic behaviour before Leo Kanner's discovery.

Victor the "Wild Boy of Aveyron" who was found in the early 1800s living wild in some woods, he was mute, liked sameness, etc. (Wild Boy of Aveyron, by Harlan Lane. pb book)

1809, John Haslam gave an account of a boy, who after contracting measles his behaviour changed and became aggressive, impulsive and had repetitive speech.

Lightner Witmer, early 1900s wrote about a boy, describing his behaviour today as autism.
More info on Victor Wild Boy of Aveyron:
http://www.feralchildren.com/en/showchild.php?ch=victor
FeralChildren.com
isolated, confined, wolf and wild children
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:55 PM
 
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Krissi, you said

Quote:
For anyone reading this thread who is curious about the link between gut flora and autism, this is an excerpt from a must-have book even though it's hard to find. The interventions suggested in this book have been greatly beneficial after just 2 weeks:
http://www.e-f-t.co.uk/gutfloraandpsychology.html

__________________________

I LOVE this link. It explains perfectly my concern with vaccinating and how it can cause gut issues in children who don't currently have gut issues. It explains perfectly why I desperately feel that our entire family needs to go on the SCD diet, including my son who currently eats fast food with enzymes. The bacteria overgrowth is being fed by his diet. The SCD diet starves out bacteria. I know this is one of the cornerstone issues that will come into play with our son's recovery. This link is easy to understand and can be used to convince husbands and family members. It is just what I was needing and looking for. This is from a book? I hope I can get this book. What changes have you made in two weeks?
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:11 PM
 
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Bestbirths, yes this is from a book. It is very, very similar to the SCD discussed in Breaking the Vicious Cycle but it has more in depth information, especially about gut/neurological issues. It recommends following the SCD diet with modifications, such as continuing to avoid dairy and using enzymes and probiotics that are not discussed in BTVC.

The book is expensive because it appears to be only published in Britain right now, but I got mine here:
https://www9.mailordercentral.com/bo....asp?dept=1001

As far as changes, all we've done so far that's new is implement the SCD diet...planning to add in more supplements as we go. The first week sucked; she was in a rotten mood and refusing to eat anything. But now h er moods are much more stable, she's sleeping better, using 2-word phrases more consistently, even widening her food choices. Even the preschool staff is saying she's a different child. My hope is that with 6-12 months of this her gut will be healed enough that we can consider chelation since I do think she has got some metal issues too, but she had such a case of leaky gut that chelation could have been hazardous to her health.
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by krissi
My hope is that with 6-12 months of this her gut will be healed enough that we can consider chelation since I do think she has got some metal issues too, but she had such a case of leaky gut that chelation could have been hazardous to her health.

You may find after a while that the diet will serve as a "natural" chelator and chelation therapy may not be needed.
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:47 PM
 
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LongIsland: That's what I'm hoping for, actually. I've always felt that if she's metal poisoned, it's probably because her body's natural metal processing mechanisms aren't working properly and that the ideal solution would be to repair those mechanisms. Yet another reason why DH & I plan to give the diet several months to a year to work before we give serious thought to chelation...and we'll likely pursue it only if she hits a plateau in her healing from diet and supplements alone.

I just worry about that huge uranium number I saw in her hair analysis...
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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Yet another reason why DH & I plan to give the diet several months to a year to work before we give serious thought to chelation...and we'll likely pursue it only if she hits a plateau in her healing from diet and supplements alone.
(
That's an excellent approach . . . I hope all goes well and progression is steady. My older son's progression out of autism literally began with diet and supplementation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by krissi
I just worry about that huge uranium number I saw in her hair analysis...
I haven't read every response to this thread, so forgive me if you mentioned it . . . I'm assuming you go to a DAN doc? What did the doc say about this and/or have you come up with anything on the uranium in your research?
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Old 06-12-2006, 03:16 PM
 
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I haven't read every response to this thread, so forgive me if you mentioned it . . . I'm assuming you go to a DAN doc? What did the doc say about this and/or have you come up with anything on the uranium in your research?
DD's uranium result in the hair test was 15 times the reference level for what was normal. I have not been able to find any substantive info on this from my research; many sources say that hair is unreliable, but I'm finding it hard to believe that level is normal. The doctor we were seeing at the time said she'd seen elevated uranium only 3 times before, but she waved it off as having to do with the Rocky Mountain areas, despite the fact that we have not lived there ever. (I checked pollution maps and we have never lived anywhere with high environmental uranium.) It's baffling. But I think the doc was assuming we were headed for chelation anyway and would deal with it then. Right now I'm wondering if the result was a fluke or the result of some type of lab error. I am going to have a hair test done on myself and on DS, and if we all have elevated uranium, then I'm going to be more alarmed and pursue the matter more aggressively.
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Old 06-12-2006, 03:41 PM
 
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I was hoping that healing the gut would allow our bodies to naturally chelate too.
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Old 06-12-2006, 04:11 PM
 
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I was hoping that healing the gut would allow our bodies to naturally chelate too.
I think it should! I definitely see value in doing chelation too though...it can't be good for little bodies (or any bodies for that matter) to have neurotoxins stored in the brain, and I have no idea how well the existing stores will be cleared by healing the gut. I suspect some of my own issues are from heavy metals and am probably going to chelate myself as soon as I'm done breastfeeding (just waiting because I don't want to dump toxins in the milk).
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Dan Olmstead has hit one on the head when he talked about one of Kanner children having got a smallpox vaccine at the age of 15 months, and then "regressed":
Kanner only mentioned the smallpox innoculation because of Richard's regression after it, but it is likely that the other children had also been vaccinated.

Kanner wrote in his Discussion:

http://www.ama.org.br/download-ing.htm
Quote:
"Injections and examinations with stethoscope or otoscope created a grave emotional crisis." (in these children).
Seeing that there were other vaccines available at the time – diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus - for parents who could afford them, and the parents of these children could afford to consult Kanner so they could have afforded them, it is possible, likely even, that all the children had been vaccinated against smallpox and other diseases.

http://www.who.int/vaccines-diseases.../history.shtml

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/Organiza...L/pertuss.html

It is also possible that these vaccines contained a preservative:

http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
Thimerosal in Vaccines
Quote:
In January 1928, in the early stages of an immunization campaign against diphtheria, Dr. Ewing George Thomson, Medical Officer of Health of Bundaberg, began the injection of children with toxin-antitoxin mixture. The material was taken from an India-rubber-capped bottle containing 10 mL of TAM. On the 17th, 20th, 21, and 24th January, Dr. Thomson injected subcutaneously a total of 21 children without ill effect. On the 27th a further 21 children were injected.Of these children .eleven died on the 28th and one on the 29th. (Wilson 1967)

This disaster was investigated by a Royal Commission and the final sentence in the summary of their findings reads as follows:

The consideration of all possible evidence concerning the deaths at Bundeberg points to the injection of living staphylococci as the cause of the fatalities.

From this experience, the Royal Commission recommended that biological products in which the growth of a pathogenic organism is possible should not be issued in containers for repeated use unless there is a sufficient concentration of antiseptic (preservative) to inhibit bacterial growth.
Is this why Eli Lily was looking at the safety of injecting thimerosal in 1930?

If the children were damaged by vaccines that were offered to all age groups, before they had time to develop, it is not surprising that other parents didn't report regression.


http://www.who.int/vaccines-diseases.../history.shtml
Quote:
Better-off families who could afford vaccination benefited most

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT
then you have the MMR connection and I find it ironic that all Andrew Wakefield's detractors can come up with is looking where they shouldn't. Why is this researcher looking in the blood and not for MMR viruses in the gut and brain?
Dr Simon Murch , one of the Dr Andrew Wakefield’s colleagues at the Royal Free Hospital, said in the Panorama documentary, “Every Parent’s Choice” (2002):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sta...t_03_02_02.txt

Quote:
I have been advised by colleagues that it is better to accept that a very few children can have adverse events than to continue to investigate that (the MMR) if it is going to have an impact on vaccine uptake internationally.
This is what the same doctor said one year earlier:

http://www.geocities.com/ARNFL/newsletters2.html
New Fears As Tests Link Triple Jabs To Children's Disease
In the Sunday Express March 18, 2001.

Quote:
World renowned child specialist and the main author of the report, Simon Murch, said the study was an important advance. He said: "People have seen autism as a mental, not a physical illness. We have shown for the first time in a properly controlled study a clear link between gut inflammation and brain damage."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT
But the National Autistic Society said the increase in cases is likely to be explained by heightened awareness of the condition. A spokesman said: 'There are no known causes of autism and no known cure.
There are known causes of autism:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/conce...autism-mmr.htm
Quote:
Ironically, infection of pregnant woman with "wild" rubella virus is one of the few known causes of autism.
http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/div...c.jsp?id=75751

Quote:
Thalidomide clearly caused autism, but only if mothers took it early in pregnancy.
http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q4512.html
Quote:
Other causes that have been discovered are thalidomide and valproic acid (depakote) exposure very early in pregnancy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
Autism following a history of newborn encephalopathy: more than a coincidence?

Quote:
Compared with the controls, the children who had experienced NE were 5.9 times (95% confidence interval 2.0-16.9) more likely to have been diagnosed with an ASD.

http://www.conradsimon.org/I-BrainDamageAtBirth.shtml
Quote:
Complications at birth have been acknowledged as common among children with autism, but then most often dismissed as part of a genetic predisposition rather than as cause of developmental problems. However, research done long ago with monkeys provides evidence that a few minutes of asphyxia at birth damages brainstem auditory nuclei. Such damage could underlie failure to learn language by ear. Early brainstem damage also disrupts later development of wider areas of the brain. The effects of oxygen insufficiency at birth merit as much attention as the search for genetic causes of autism.
In 1962, Dr Bernard Rimland (Infantile Autism, p63) considered babies receiving too much oxygen at birth or in incubators, later being diagnosed with autism. (He made the connection “high concentration of oxygen is able to cause destruction of nerve tissue in infants” but lack of mothering was still blamed.

and brain damage (p.62)

Quote:
Ross (1959) presents an interesting and instructive case history of an autistic girl whose mother had been held to be responsible for her child’s plight because the mother’s affection was considered “intellectualized and objectified”. Only when the child died did the fact of extensive brain damage become evident.
Autism can be acquired:

Quote:
Disintegrative psychosis is recognized as a sequel to measles encephalitis. Viral encephalitis can give rise to autistic disorders, particularly when it occurs early in life. *Wing L, The autistic Spectrum London Constable, 1996 pg 68-71
Is there any difference between post-encephalitic syndrome and autism?

http://glaxocentre.merseyside.org/1enchild.htm
(This website has since been updated.)

Quote:
ENCEPHALITIS IN CHILDHOOD
"development of problems which may be physical, cognitive, behavioural and emotional"
"younger children have developed fewer skills and brain damage may hinder future development"
"outwardly good physical appearance"
"problems with co-ordination and balance"
"impairments of vision or hearing."
"Sleep disorders common"
"epilepsy"
"Learning difficulties"
"ability to concentrate, think and remember will be reduced"
"ability to think may be slower"
"their understanding of what people say will also be impaired"
"the child cannot sift out the relevant information from the background noise"
"difficulty staying on task"
"easily distracted"
"difficulty in retaining and recalling new information."
"difficulty in encoding, consolidating and recalling information."
"speech and language difficulties - receptive language (comprehension, auditory processing),expressive language (word finding, grammar, discourse), and/or motor speech problems (swallowing, speech sound production)."
"require alternative or augmentative communication (signing, symbol system, electronic communication aid)"
"planning and organisational skills are another result of brain damage."
"unable to tackle even the simplest of tasks, seem more forgetful, seem more impulsive and appear totally disorganised"
"poor academic performance versus peers"
"social difficulties."
"over-activity and restlessness"
"sensitivity to touch and noise"
"depression / frustration"
"risk-taking behaviour"
"intensive mood swings"
"aggressiveness, destructiveness and tantrums"
"impulsive and socially inappropriate behaviour"
"anxiety"
"obsessive compulsive disorders"
"parents grieving for a "lost" child which has been replaced by a very different one."
http://glaxocentre.merseyside.org/1emotions.htm
Quote:
Encephalitis, like other types of brain injury, can also affect the ability to accurately perceive emotions in others. For example, some people have difficulty interpreting facial emotion in others, which can lead to person who has had encephalitis not appearing sensitive to emotional changes in others.
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=...p=031215200417

Quote:
Encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) can lead to a range of disabilities such as epilepsy, loss of speech and communication and acquired autism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT
"But the National Autistic Society said the increase in cases is likely to be explained by heightened awareness of the condition. A spokesman said: 'There are no known causes of autism and no known cure.'
"No known cure"?
There cannot be one cure because there is no one single cause of autism, but here are some children who have been cured:

http://autism-recoveredchildren.org/
Recovered Autistic Children Event
(30 min., 52 sec.)
Interviews with two mothers and
their recovered children
(18 min, 17 sec.)
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:13 PM
 
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Good analysis Sherlock.

But who can get into the minds of pharmas and why they do something?

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 06-13-2006, 12:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Good analysis Sherlock.

But who can get into the minds of pharmas and why they do something?
Well, a very wild guess would be..... M-O-N-E-Y!

And aren't pharmaceutical companies in the business of pharming?
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Old 06-13-2006, 01:08 AM
 
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Why, I... um... never thought of that.

No wonder the cows at the back look funny

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 06-13-2006, 03:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Why, I... um... never thought of that.

No wonder the cows at the back look funny


They haven't gone all lumpy have they?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
Adverse reactions in cattle to a capripox vaccine.


Seriously though, looks like dairy farmers are told a lot more about vaccines than mums are:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...n&ct=clnk&cd=1

Quote:
Vaccines: What Can you Expect from them on a Dairy

What goes into a vaccine?

An antigen
A carrier
An adjuvant (not always)- bordetella,
aluminum hydroxide, saponin, freunds,
shark oils, proprietary
Antibiotics- pen/strept, amphotericin B
Undesired by-products

Bottom Line:

Just because a vaccine is licensed does not mean that it is
1. Effective
2. Safe

Adverse Reactions:

Immune Suppression
Excessive cytokine release
Milk Drop
Hypersensitivity
type1-type 4
Multiple vaccine induced problems
Injection site lesions

The Role of Vaccines in Disease Prevention

They require time to work
They don’t last forever.
They are not 100% effective.
It is unreasonable to expect vaccines to achieve
identical responses in all animals in all situations


Vaccines for the calf

Calf has a fully function, but immature immune system
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Old 06-13-2006, 03:32 AM
 
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:

Interesting to me, is the fact that dogs have similar serious side effects from Parvovirus vaccines as children used to have to single measles.

Difference being that dog's can't yank their owners chain, therefore vets say that owners aren't paranoid.

If you get that illogical logic.

and coz dog breeder's income is dependant on eliminating pre-existing conditions and isolating a vaccine reaction its taken more seriously. healthy dogs = money, but only unhealthy people = money. Or healthy people you can convince wouldn't be "healthy" if they didn't become pin-cushions for posterity.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 06-13-2006, 11:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krissi
For anyone reading this thread who is curious about the link between gut flora and autism, this is an excerpt from a must-have book even though it's hard to find. The interventions suggested in this book have been greatly beneficial after just 2 weeks:
http://www.e-f-t.co.uk/gutfloraandpsychology.html
A mom "emma" with 2 ASD kids on the Pecanbread Yahoo Group has posted extensive notes from her meeting with Dr. Campbell-McBride several months ago if you are interested. Seems somewhat like SCD but different probiotics.

We got rid of Klebsiella with SCD but now are fighting Proteus, makes sense b/c K. feeds on starches and P. feeds on proteins.

DeFelice's book is excellent. I highly recommend for gut/behavior connection and best description I've found of leaky gut and dysbiosis: www.enzymestuff.com
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Old 06-13-2006, 11:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by krissi
DD's uranium result in the hair test was 15 times the reference level for what was normal. I have not been able to find any substantive info on this from my research; many sources say that hair is unreliable, but I'm finding it hard to believe that level is normal.
PM user "Gale Force" and search for her posts on her uranium problems.
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Old 06-13-2006, 11:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krissi
I've often wondered if some kind of interplay exists with immune response and gut flora.
DeFelice's book mentions how yeast methylates mercury.
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Old 06-16-2006, 08:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
: and coz dog breeder's income is dependant on eliminating pre-existing conditions and isolating a vaccine reaction its taken more seriously. healthy dogs = money, but only unhealthy people = money. Or healthy people you can convince wouldn't be "healthy" if they didn't become pin-cushions for posterity.
On the subject of dogs, MT: Do vaccinated dogs get autism? They certainly get ADD and ADHD:

http://www.sniksnak.com/doghealth/excite.html
Quote:
(ADHD), can be diagnosed by veterinary examination and testing. Dogs with hyperactivity disorder are difficult to train, respond poorly to tranquilization, may exhibit repetitive behaviors such as incessant barking or circling, may have gastrointestinal disorders, and can be extremely resistant to restraint.
http://www.irishwolfhounds.org/vaccination.htm
From What Are the Adverse Reactions, If Any?:
Quote:
Recurrent diarrhea
"Restless nature,
suspicion of others,
aggression to animals and people”
Changes in behavior:
“aloofness,
unaffectionate,
desire to roam,
or clingy, separation anxiety, 'velcro dog'”
“Restraining can lead to violent behavior and self-injury”
“Self-mutilation, tail chewing”
"Voice changes, hoarseness, excessive barking"
“Chronic poor appetite, very finicky”
"Eating wood, stones, earth, stool"
Destructive behavior,
Inflammatory bowel disease"
Excessive licking of feet
Epilepsy
http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/...oncerns-uk.htm
Canine Vaccine Survey by Canine Health Concern, England:
Quote:
But perhaps most astonishing is the fact that a majority of dogs (64.9%) with behavioral problems appear to have developed their difficulties within three months of vaccination. Similarly, 72.5% per cent of dogs with nervous or worrying dispositions became nervous within three months of their jabs (with a Chi score of 112), and 73.1% per cent of dogs with short attention spans lost their attentiveness within three months of vaccination.
http://www.canineworld.com/drdym/
Classical Veterinary Homeopathy - Michael E Dym, VMD:
Quote:
We are also seeing a record number of behavioral and emotional disorders including alarming and unexplained fears/aggression., as well as difficulty focusing/training and paying attention.
http://www.knowbetterdogfood.com/dog...accination.php
Are we vaccinating too much? By Catherine O'Driscoll:
Quote:
Encephalitis, inflammation of the brain, is a known and accepted possible sequel to vaccination. The Merck Manual states, for example, "In acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (post infectious encephalitis), demyelination can occur spontaneously, but usually follows a viral infection or inoculation (or very rarely, a bacterial vaccine), suggesting an immunologic cause."

This points to a connection between encephalitis and behavioural problems in both humans and animals.
This is what I found out about acute disseminated encephalomyelitis or postinfectious encephalomyelitis:

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1998/03_98/guti.htm
Postinfectious encephalomyelitis
Quote:
Postinfectious encephalomyelitis, also known as acute disseminated encephalomyelitis, is characterized by perivenular inflammation and demyelination of brain tissue. In this disorder, peripheral blood lymphocytes react against myelin basic protein.
What can cause Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis?
http://www.ajnr.org/cgi/content/full/22/6/1117
Delayed MR Imaging Changes in Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis:
Quote:
It is usually triggered by an inflammatory response to viral infections and vaccinations.
http://www.neurologyindia.com/articl...;aulast=Murthy
Quote:
It is more common in children because of higher frequency of immunization and exposure to antigen.
http://www.neurologyindia.com/articl...;aulast=Murthy
Quote:
Viral infections associated with ADEM include measles, mumps, rubella, varicella-zoster, Epstein Barr virus, cytomegalo virus, herpes simplex virus, Hepatitis A, and coxsackie virus.

<snip>antirabies vaccination. Other vaccinations associated with ADEM include pertusis, diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, and influenza.
What are the symptoms?

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1998/03_98/guti.htm
From Identifying the specific cause is key to effective management:
Quote:
Febrile illness, headache, malaise, irritability, lethargy, nausea, vomiting, neck pain, photophobia, altered levels of consciousness, confusion, focal neurologic abnormalities, seizures, unprovoked emotional outbursts, loss of bowel and bladder control.
http://www.bioline.org.br/request?ni02075
From Bioline International:
Quote:
optic neuritis, visual field defects, aphasia, motor and sensory deficits, ataxia, movement disorders, depressed level of consciousness, focal or generalized seizures, psychosis.
http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic163.htm:
From eMedicine:
Quote:
diffuse or focal neurologic symptoms; behavioral and personality changes; decreased level of consciousness, stiff neck, photophobia, lethargy, generalized or localized seizures, acute confusion or amnestic states, change in level of alertness; irritability, seizures, poor feeding, altered mental status and/or personality changes (most common), focal seizures, and autonomic dysfunction, movement disorders, ataxia, unilateral sensorimotor dysfunction, irritability, change in level of attentiveness, bulging fontanels
What is the prognosis?
http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1998/03_98/guti.htm
Encephalitis - Identifying the specific cause is key to effective management:
Quote:
Supportive care and rehabilitation are important after the patient recovers. Because some sequelae of encephalitis may be subtle, neurodevelopmental and audiologic evaluations should be part of routine follow-up.

Prognosis depends on the cause and severity of the illness and the patient's age.

Potential deficits include intellectual, motor, psychiatric, epileptic, visual, and auditory abnormalities.

Summary
Long-term follow-up is important to detect sequelae <snip>
http://www.encephalitis.info/children/Effects.html
Children – The Effects of Encephalitis

Some questions:

Why is it that most adverse reactions to vaccines are considered insignificant - even when they are identical to symptoms of postinfectious encephalomyelitis?

Why are symptoms of disease following vaccination (i.e adverse reactions) not investigated - and not followed-up?

And, even though vaccination is a cause of postinfectious encephalomyelitis, which can lead to the very same loss of skills and behavioural and personality changes seen in regressive late-onset “autism”, why is it that when a normally-developing child has intellectual, motor, psychiatric, visual, auditory and, sometimes, epileptic abnormalities after a vaccine, there is no investigation - he is just diagnosed with “autism”?
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Old 06-16-2006, 03:33 PM
 
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S007, that is a very interesting and thought provoking post! I had never thought of dogs getting autism and ADHD before. It is actually kind of heartbreaking to see that experts agree on some of the adverse effects of vaccines on dogs but not on children.

JaneS: Thanks for the information. I do plan to read DeFelice's book at some point (have a huge reading list stacked on my desk already ), and will try PM'ing Gale Force if she knows about uranium. GAPS is pretty much just like SCD and outrightly recommends the SCD diet as the best for food purposes, but does discuss different probiotics. She also suggests a few different supplements and recommends that people with neurological issues continue to avoid casein for a period of time whereas SCD is more accepting of casein.

Could you tell me more about your experience with klebsiella? I am curious if you noticed it being associated with any specific symptoms. DS has been going through ultra clingy periods, unusually hyper episodes and some strange poop issues. I can't tell how much of this might be related to his dysbiosis and how much is just normal baby stuff. My holistic ped is not very helpful.
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Old 06-16-2006, 04:01 PM
 
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But see, dogs don't have neurotic owners, whereas kids have neurotic parents

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 06-16-2006, 04:37 PM
 
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Uranium is so damned scary because it's radioactive and we don't fully understand the implications. Over the long term, it's associated with bone cancer because it competes with calcium for slots in the bones. Calcium therapy is the only effective therapy that I know. There are no known chelators of uranium. That's not to say you can't get rid of it, but if you go to a doctor who does heavy metal chelation, that doctor wouldn't have the info on what chelator to use. I think there are rodent studies on this (or at least in process), but that's all.

A long-term game is critical. Gut healing for sure, but the gut will never be fully healed until the uranium is under control. Watching minerals is critical. The red blood cell mineral panels at Metametrix or Doctor's Data might be a good place to start in terms of testing. You could just load up on calcium, but my concern would be that it would throw other levels off. That said, I loaded up on MCHC Calcium (derived from bovine bones) and my uranium levels decreased 40% in six months while I was on a candida diet. I had some other metal exposure after that (arsenic mainly) and my uranium levels went up again (not to the original level) even though my water source was a lot cleaner. Bodies can only handle so much filtering. It's all a long process. Best to get situated for years of diligence. heck, in this poluted world, it's a lifetime of diligence.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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