Influenza beginning to scare me... thoughts on the vax? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm beginning to be really scared by the flus going around. They seem to be getting worse, and this year I had one of the worse ones ever--five days of fever 101-105, chills, and so out of it my heating pad gave me a 2nd degree burn and I didn't notice. And I've heard the respitory problems I've had since then take five or six weeks to fully go away.

I've always had the attitude, "aw, it's just the flu, who can't handle a day or two of being sick," but this was over the top. Then there's this talk about preparing for influenza pandemic. (Including someone telling me how the county is stocking up on body bags in preparation.)

Although I wonder if it's not the vaxes making it worse, I also wonder if the fact that they're getting worse isn't pushing me towards getting vaxed for it. I am way too stressed out to depend on a healthy lifestyle to keep my immune system up, I catch any virus that comes near me right now.

Wondering what your thoughts are on preparing for an influenza pandemic, and about the flu vaccine.
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#2 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 03:52 AM
 
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Wondering what your thoughts are on preparing for an influenza pandemic
Part of the pandemic flu hype is designed to scare people into vaccinating for seasonal influenza.

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and about the flu vaccine.
This is a link to the Seasonal flu - do you want the facts or the propaganda thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ght=propaganda
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#3 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 04:14 AM
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"aw, it's just the flu, who can't handle a day or two of being sick," but this was over the top.
Actual influenza is more than a day or two of being sick. Sounds like this time you got real influenza (most of the time when people think they have the flu, they don't). If this is your first time getting it, that's why it seemed worse. True influenza sucks, but it's always sucked, and it's going to continue to suck. The flu shot is a cute idea, but study after study shows it aint working anyhow.

Do your best to live healthy and take care of yourself the best you can when you do get ill. It's really all any of us can do.
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#4 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 08:04 AM
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I'm more scared of the junk in the vax than Influenza.
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#5 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 08:46 AM
 
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True influenza sucks, but it's always sucked, and it's going to continue to suck.


Even so,

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I'm more scared of the junk in the vax than Influenza.
Plus, the vax is a crapshoot (they're just guessing at the strain, at best, based on the previous flu season) and not very effective as far as I can tell. Just about everyone I know who's ever gotten a flu shot has been ill immediately after getting the vax.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#6 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 11:04 AM
 
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my son and dh got the flu for the first time this year. it was much more intense than I expected and the quick onset made me realize that the one other time I though my ds had the flu - it definitely wasn't - just a bad cold.
definitely not fun, but still nothing I'd vax for.
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#7 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 11:49 AM
 
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we had the 2 week misery type flu in January. It was worse than the flu I had while pregnant. Ds had a pretty hard time with the residual after-flu cough and we did end up in the ER but his oxygen levels were fine and although he did cough his head off for 24 hours straight, the next day after a super dose of vit C he was much better. I look at it like this, it sucked but we both made it through alive and I can look back and think that even though it was miserable it is a lot less miserable than having to deal with the not at all temporary effects of having mercury injected into my body (since the flu vax still has the full dose of mercury (thimerosal)

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#8 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 12:05 PM
 
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Actual influenza is more than a day or two of being sick. Sounds like this time you got real influenza (most of the time when people think they have the flu, they don't). If this is your first time getting it, that's why it seemed worse. True influenza sucks, but it's always sucked, and it's going to continue to suck. The flu shot is a cute idea, but study after study shows it aint working anyhow.

Do your best to live healthy and take care of yourself the best you can when you do get ill. It's really all any of us can do.

Yup, to all that. Flu isn't actually all that common. People think they have the flu all the time, but most people don't even catch it once every few years. I had an influenza-like illness (may have been influenza, maybe not - I wasn't tested) 7 or 8 years ago and it was even worse than what you're describing. I ended up with a mild case of pneumonia and everything, but refused treatment for that and recovered just fine on my own. I still wouldn't vaccinate for it - just take better care of myself and DD than I took of myself in my early 20's.
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#9 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 12:08 PM
 
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Having overheard a woman telling another about her month of sickness after the flu shot. She said it was just like having the flu but the dr said she didn't have the flu because she had the flu shot.

Who'd want a month of sickness?

Id rather take selenium.
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#10 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 01:06 PM
 
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DH and DS1 had the flu a couple years ago, DH was so sick we had to go to the ER and get fluids for him. They did a nasal swab and sent it to the CDC and it came back a flu strain they'd never seen. Vaccinating him would have been useless, as the flu shot only targets the strain it contains, and ineffectively at that.

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#11 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 01:15 PM
 
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I agree with the others...
I am more concerned about having myself or children injected with mercury and a whole lot of other things then I am about the flu. I think that if you research that there is a good chance that you will come to the same conclusion as others

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#12 of 51 Old 03-26-2007, 03:09 PM
 
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Agreeing with the other post. The flu shot doesn't guartee you wouldn't get it. My uncle decided to get it for the first time (he never had the shot before and never had the flu) and he got the flu shortly after getting the vax.
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#13 of 51 Old 03-27-2007, 11:02 AM
 
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Yes, the flu is miserable. But my uncle got transverse myelitis from his flu shot. Take your pick, two weeks of misery or a lifetime of permanent nerve damage? I'll take being sick. ;-)
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#14 of 51 Old 03-27-2007, 01:03 PM
 
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My father's assistant pastor got sick the day after his flu shot and has been sick for over three months. His sinuses are completely blocked and he now has to have surgery to fix it. Unfortunately, noone seems to be connecting this to the vax...:

<>< Alison
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#15 of 51 Old 03-27-2007, 01:05 PM
 
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But my uncle got transverse myelitis from his flu shot.
I want to point out that transverse myelitis is a recognized vaccine adverse reaction, which is compensatable through the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. In fact, there is a recent compensated case of an infant death related to TM and the Hib vaccine.

TM is one of a number of demyelinating disorders linked to vaccines.
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#16 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 07:49 PM
 
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Part of the pandemic flu hype is designed to scare people into vaccinating for seasonal influenza.
And part of why they want people to vaccinate for seasonal influenza is to sufficiently stimulate sales for the few companies that still make the stuff so as to discourage them from abandoning the practice altogether, hence depriving us (them?) of (what they see as) our best hope of responding to a pandemic. I guess. But wait... that only makes sense if they really are worried about a pandemic to begin with. Maybe I got lost somewhere. Let me start over.

Much of what spews from the popular news media easily deserves to be called "hype". It is designed to entertain. If it does that well, it doesn't have to be balanced, or even particularly accurate, and those who present it don't care what the public does with the "information". (With me so far?) Epidemiologists, virologists, and public health officials, on the other hand, have a very different set of priorities. As your statement implies, they do care what the public does with the information they present. The question is: why?

In his recent documentary, "An Inconvenient Truth", Al Gore says something I think we can easily agree on:

"Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present the truth as they see it."

With what is essentially one voice, the epidemiological community has warned us that the H5N1 virus poses a grave threat to humanity. This is no more in dispute among epidemiologists than is the issue of global warming in dispute among climatologists. I believe that they are genuinely concerned about the threat, and that they see flu vaccines (which they consider to be at least reasonably effective most of the time) as the best bet for countering the threat. You (apparently) think that this is not true, and that they are feigning (or perhaps merely exaggerating) their concerns (as well as their confidence in flu vaccines) -- i.e., that they have failed in their obligation to present the truth as they see it. But if they aren't genuinely worried about the threat (and genuinely convinced of the effectiveness of flu vaccines), I can only think of one reason why they might want to do that. It smacks of "conspiracy theory", however, and I have been harshly criticized for implying that anyone around here would suggest such a thing.

Help me out.
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#17 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 07:54 PM
 
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Epidemiologists shouldn't be the ones determining what viruses are about to emerge as serious pathogens.
It should be cell biologists and virologists figuring that out.

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they see flu vaccines (which they consider to be at least reasonably effective most of the time)
"They" being "epidemiologists"? Like the ones at the Cochrane Collaboration?

Cause those guys in their vaccine department are epidemiologists.

Going back to the media, it's the CDC that sends out packages to the media.
Do you disagree that that is what they do?
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#18 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 07:58 PM
 
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I believe that they are genuinely concerned about the threat, and that they see flu vaccines (which they consider to be at least reasonably effective most of the time) as the best bet for countering the threat.
You mean mean how they're "genuinely" concerned about the recent grave threats of hepatitis A, rotavirus, varicella and HPV for instance?

I mean, why else would the CDC universally recommend and push mandates for these particular vaccines if they weren't gravely threatening America's children, right? Right.

And just to clarify for the reader, there is no imminent threat of a bird flu pandemic. Gerberding actually had to come out and say that not too long ago because even the CDC realized the hype was getting out of control.
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#19 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 08:04 PM
 
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Especially HepA.

Thank god for the HepA vax. I can finally sleep at night, not having to worry about my poor, helpless little one fighting this deadly disease....
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#20 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 08:15 PM
 
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Especially HepA.

Thank god for the HepA vax. I can finally sleep at night, not having to worry about my poor, helpless little one fighting this deadly disease....

You mean the illness that is not a chronic condition (aka it goes away and you become immune for life ) and the illness that is asymptomatic in most children?

The one that has the vaccine they're starting to mandate all across the country for daycare and school entry?
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#21 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 08:20 PM
 
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Yeah...the one nobody's wanted to fearmonger about because it's better to just not say anything and have people assume it's actually genetically realted to the deadly chronic liver disorder viruses.
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#22 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 08:25 PM
 
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Yeah...the one nobody's wanted to fearmonger about because it's better to just not say anything and have people assume it's actually genetically realted to the deadly chronic liver disorder viruses.
Ah yes, the ole "word association" tactic.

Remember a few weeks ago when it was revealed that restauranteur Wolfgang Puck's employee had Hepatitis A? All the rag mags were headlining:

Does Beyonce Have Hepatitis?!


The articles made it sound like she was going to have to live with Hepatitis A for the rest of her life and she was going to die.

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#23 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 08:26 PM
 
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Lol!
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#24 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 09:12 PM
 
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Epidemiologists shouldn't be the ones determining what viruses are about to emerge as serious pathogens.
It should be cell biologists and virologists figuring that out.
Now there's a quibble. "Epidemiologists/virologists" gets a little awkward; I hoped that using "the epidemiological community" (which certainly includes virologists) would cover it.

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"They" being "epidemiologists"? Like the ones at the Cochrane Collaboration?
Flu vaccines are accepted as being at least reasonably effective by the overwhelming majority of the professionals in the relevant fields. You may argue that they are wrong to believe what they believe, but that's not the same as saying that they're lying about what they believe.

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Going back to the media, it's the CDC that sends out packages to the media. Do you disagree that that is what they do?
No. I believe that the folks at the CDC are VERY concerned about the threat, and highly motivated to convey the risk to as many people as possible. I also believe that journalists come in many flavors. Some lack the expertise to report on the issues they cover, and some are not above taking whatever creative liberties they feel will inhance the entertainment value of their product. I've seen headlines proclaiming "Bird Flu Found in U.S.", and upon reading the articles, found them to be referring to commonly circulating strains of low-path influenza other than H5N1. The media sells news as entertainment. Do you disagree that this is what they do?


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Originally Posted by LongIsland
I mean, why else would the CDC universally recommend and push mandates for these particular vaccines if they weren't gravely threatening America's children, right?
You seem to be implicitly claiming to have a keen insight where their motives are concerned. If you'd like to show your work, that would be great -- but only if you are so inclined, of course; I can't suggest that you are a conspiracy theorist, or (apparently) even ask you to clarify your position without crossing some line of decency here.

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And just to clarify for the reader, there is no imminent threat of a bird flu pandemic.
In the same sense, on (say) August 23, 2005, there was no imminent threat of a major hurricane hitting New Orleans. Nonetheless, there were those who were insisting that the likelihood of such an event was sufficient to warrant serious concern, and that the city was very vulnerable.
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#25 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 09:35 PM
 
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Flu vaccines are accepted as being at least reasonably effective by the overwhelming majority of the professionals in the relevant fields
.

I'm not so sure about that. I personally know several "scientists" who don't "believe" that flu vaccines are very effective. And "health care workers" often don't get flushots, citing "lack of effectiveness" as a primary reason.

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You may argue that they are wrong to believe what they believe, but that's not the same as saying that they're lying about what they believe.
I never said lying.
Even "risk communication" isn't technically lying, although it's extremely deceptive in function.
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#26 of 51 Old 03-28-2007, 09:48 PM
 
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No. I believe that the folks at the CDC are VERY concerned about the threat, and highly motivated to convey the risk to as many people as possible.
I wonder why the folks at the CDC are not highly motivated to convey the risks of Congenital Cytomegalovirus (CMV) to as many people as possible? Forty thousand ( 40,000) babies are born with the virus every year. It's the second leading cause of birth defects, including blindness, in newborns. In fact, the CDC states that "every hour, congenital CMV causes one child to become disabled."


Now why isn't this on the news every other night?

I mean the chances of handling a bird flu-infected chicken must surely be FAR greater than catching and spreading cytomegalovirus or else the CDC would be "VERY" concerned. Although from my research cytomegalovirus is widespread and almost everyone gets it by the time they reach adulthood.

I suppose we'll just have to wait until the CMV vaccines get closer to licensure before it becomes worthy of a proper and continuous warning like the currently more profitable bird flu "pandemic."
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#27 of 51 Old 03-29-2007, 02:49 AM
 
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I can't suggest that you are a conspiracy theorist, or (apparently) even ask you to clarify your position without crossing some line of decency here.
Dymanic, you are so obvious. I had thought you would act a little more politely when you had time to post again, but now you're just back to the same old same old. You were wrong in that thread and it was hard to even follow your logical gymnastics. Don't attempt to bring up all that nonsense in this thread. This just another attempt of yours to skirt the UA by posting sarcastic, baiting references that the mods probably won't notice, because you phrase it as though you're a baffled man who just doesn't understand what's happening around here. You have a history of referencing other threads in a dishonest manner, misrepresenting conversations to make it appear as though everyone is so unreasonable to you, when in actuality everyone has been more than fair to you, given your behavior. You're not subtle, although you seem to feel you are. Your methods are quite obvious to anyone that's been paying attention. Don't misrepresent our conversation. It's rude and it's childish.
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#28 of 51 Old 03-29-2007, 02:53 AM
 
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I'm not so sure about that. I personally know several "scientists" who don't "believe" that flu vaccines are very effective.
The same approach has been used to make a case against anthropogenic global warming. I've even seen it used in an attempt to discredit evolutionary theory, arguably the most fundamental concept in modern biology: "see these 'scientists' who don't 'believe' in evolution". The opinons of several scientists don't carry the same weight as do the opinions of thousands of scientists.

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And "health care workers" often don't get flushots, citing "lack of effectiveness" as a primary reason.
Anecdotally then (for what that's worth, which isn't much), my experience is that many "health care workers" aren't significantly more knowlegeable than anyone else. Next one you meet, ask them for their thoughts on why it is that the gene for neuraminidase is more highly conserved in the influenza genome than is the one for hemagglutinin.

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I never said lying.
No, but LI did (implied it, anyway) by saying: "Part of the pandemic flu hype is designed to scare people into vaccinating for seasonal influenza."

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Originally Posted by LongIsland
I wonder why the folks at the CDC are not highly motivated to convey the risks of Congenital Cytomegalovirus (CMV) to as many people as possible?
Here again, your comments are absolutely dripping with implication, yet you do not come out and say precisely what you mean.
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#29 of 51 Old 03-29-2007, 04:13 AM
 
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No, but LI did (implied it, anyway) by saying: "Part of the pandemic flu hype is designed to scare people into vaccinating for seasonal influenza."

Here again, your comments are absolutely dripping with implication, yet you do not come out and say precisely what you mean.
Dymanic, we've been over this a million times and have provided you with several links EACH time you've tried to deflect reality by accusing the board of "conspiracy theory."

For instance, this is what the director of the CDC's communication department said about creating demand for influenza vaccines:

Focusing on the important role in mitigating pandemic influenza of both annual immunization (to build demand for flu vaccine, and therefore supply in the event of a crisis) and prompt vaccination against a pandemic strain, the chapter continues with a consideration of strategies to increase immunization uptake before and during a pandemic.
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#30 of 51 Old 03-29-2007, 04:26 AM
 
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The same approach has been used to make a case against anthropogenic global warming. I've even seen it used in an attempt to discredit evolutionary theory, arguably the most fundamental concept in modern biology: "see these 'scientists' who don't 'believe' in evolution". The opinons of several scientists don't carry the same weight as do the opinions of thousands of scientists.
Yes. Looking at the rather compelling evidence and siding with the gold standard of evidence based medicine is just like not believing in evolution. The inactivated influenza vaccine debate is just like that.

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No, but LI did (implied it, anyway) by saying: "Part of the pandemic flu hype is designed to scare people into vaccinating for seasonal influenza."
But that's actually true. It's # 7 of the "recipe" for creating demand for influenza vaccines.
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