Harry potter... do you ever wonder??? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 12:57 AM
 
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keep posting!! i love this too. didn't sirius tell him to look in the mirror and say his name? i thought that it was sort of obviously what the mirror did... he said he and james used to use them to talk when they had separate detentions.
That was on the note that harry read after sirius died. I think

BTW, I think you are right about snape coming to dumbledore before lily died.

Now I'm going to have to crack open those books tonight.

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#62 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 01:02 AM
 
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I do wonder how many students are supposed to be at Hogwarts, but Rowling doesn't know herself, so I'll never figure it out. Using one measure, I'd guess under 300 (approx. 70 in each house). Just based on general descriptions and overall "vibe", I'd say closer to 1000.
I actually think about this on a deeper level.. If a student only needs to pass an Owl or a Newt to "complete" a certain type of education, then wouldn't there be a few classes with TONS of first years and a few sorry looking older students in the same class that hadn't passed it yet? There is a huge difference in maturity between an 11 year old and a 17 year old. How were the classes scheduled (what a nightmare that must have been)? How many preps did each professor have to prepare for? Who was responsible for the legitimacy and accuracy of the Newt and Owl exams? How many classrooms did there need to be to house all the classes and what was the average size of the class? What was the student to teacher ratio?

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#63 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 01:20 AM
 
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I never really got that either... They kind of glossed over that in the book.

The other thing is why did the portkey bring him back to the grounds? I never ever understood that. Did one of the 'shadows' that came out of the wand bewitch the portkey to make it come go back to hogwarts?
THAT is an excellent question too! Didn't they say at the Quiddich World Cup that the portkeys were done once they'd been used? They had to set up new ones IIRC didn't they? So someone would have had to re-set it to return, right? In which case, why didn't they set something closer and easier for Harry to grab instead of the cup?

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#64 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 02:50 AM
 
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THAT is an excellent question too! Didn't they say at the Quiddich World Cup that the portkeys were done once they'd been used? They had to set up new ones IIRC didn't they? So someone would have had to re-set it to return, right? In which case, why didn't they set something closer and easier for Harry to grab instead of the cup?
Yes, I thought that was true too.

What I found improbable was that, after getting to the cemetery, a newly "born" and incredibly powerful dark lord, along with several of his death eaters, still let a 15(?) year old get away. Not only did he get away, but he also managed to drag Cedric's body with him.

I know he had that whole "help" from his parents ... but, still. The kid was 15, facing an incredibly powerful wizard, and surrounded by several powerful adult death eaters.

Though, of course, I realize he HAD to get away in order for the books to continue!

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#65 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 02:31 PM
 
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I actually think about this on a deeper level.. If a student only needs to pass an Owl or a Newt to "complete" a certain type of education, then wouldn't there be a few classes with TONS of first years and a few sorry looking older students in the same class that hadn't passed it yet? There is a huge difference in maturity between an 11 year old and a 17 year old. How were the classes scheduled (what a nightmare that must have been)? How many preps did each professor have to prepare for? Who was responsible for the legitimacy and accuracy of the Newt and Owl exams? How many classrooms did there need to be to house all the classes and what was the average size of the class? What was the student to teacher ratio?
I've thought about all that stuff, too. The class structures, etc. don't seem to make a lot of sense to me. I can't think of a single case where a student from another year is in a class, and that makes no sense, as you point out. When you're moving through individual classes, not whole grades (like high school, not elementary school), you always get at least a few kids from other levels in some classes. Hermione, for example, would probably be taking at least a few more advanced classes, with older students. It also seems weird that the classes continue to be taken by house/age group (eg. 3rd Gryffindors in Divination), even though the students are splitting into different courses. The scheduling just doesn't ring true.

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#66 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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another thing i was wondering is about the first book (sort of) ron said that all of the wizards who went bad were in slytherin (so not all slytherins went to voldermort but he had a ton of supporters so apparently quite a few of them did) they also said that families are often in the same house (also there are exceptions.. sirius, the patil twins etc) and then the sorting hat said that harry would do well in slytherin b/c of talent, cleverness, wanting to prove himself etc. he was also brave so it considered gryffindor... but why was he more of a fit for slytherin? its not like all of gryffindor is brave and stupid.. so why was he better fit for slytherin?

all of slytherin left in the seventh book when voldemort was coming but harry would have never left. he wasn't pure blood and didn't care if people were or not. i guess i don't really get why he would have been a good fit for slytherin

and if it's talent, cunning, wanting to proove yourself and such how in the heck did crabbe and goyle get into slytherin? they aren't talented at all. they are kind of just big mean and stupid. slytherin was into pure bloods and only wanted to teach pure bloods.. which means harry shouldn't have even been considered.... i don't know it just seems a bit off to me..

and cedric too.. moody sad by the time he was in his fourth year he could turn a whistle into a watch and make it sing you the time... so wouldn't that kind of talent mean he was more suited for ravenclaw? and zacharias smith always seemed way to nasty to be in hufflepuff.. i didn't think they were supposed to be the nasty ones.. helga hufflepuff wanted to teach anyone who was magical!
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#67 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 08:24 PM
 
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another thing i was wondering is about the first book (sort of) ron said that all of the wizards who went bad were in slytherin (so not all slytherins went to voldermort but he had a ton of supporters so apparently quite a few of them did) they also said that families are often in the same house (also there are exceptions.. sirius, the patil twins etc) and then the sorting hat said that harry would do well in slytherin b/c of talent, cleverness, wanting to prove himself etc. he was also brave so it considered gryffindor... but why was he more of a fit for slytherin? its not like all of gryffindor is brave and stupid.. so why was he better fit for slytherin?

all of slytherin left in the seventh book when voldemort was coming but harry would have never left. he wasn't pure blood and didn't care if people were or not. i guess i don't really get why he would have been a good fit for slytherin

and if it's talent, cunning, wanting to proove yourself and such how in the heck did crabbe and goyle get into slytherin? they aren't talented at all. they are kind of just big mean and stupid. slytherin was into pure bloods and only wanted to teach pure bloods.. which means harry shouldn't have even been considered.... i don't know it just seems a bit off to me..
The pure blood thing doesn't really apply, anyway. Snape was in Slytherin, and he wasn't pure blood. Voldemort was in Slytherin, and he wasn't pure blood, either.

I think the sorting was a bit random, really. But, I think the real reason Harry would have been a good fit in Slytherin was supposed to be the fact that he was basically a living Horcrux. He had a piece of Voldemort's soul in him, and that made him a natural fit for Slytherin.

The "every wizard that ever went bad was in Slytherin" thing wasn't even true in the context of the books. I don't know about people like Barty Crouch, Jr...but both Peter Pettigrew and Sirius Black were in Gryffindor, and whether people believed Sirius or not, the person who betrayed the Potters had to be a Gryffindor...not a Slytherin.

I honestly think the fact that all the Slytherins (except Slughorn) left for the big battle had more to do with the extreme polarization that had occurred during Harry's time there. The Slytherin/Gryffindor rivalry had reached new heights, especially with Snape's utter hatred and contempt for Harry. I would guess that in other years, there would have been at least a few who stayed.

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and cedric too.. moody sad by the time he was in his fourth year he could turn a whistle into a watch and make it sing you the time... so wouldn't that kind of talent mean he was more suited for ravenclaw? and zacharias smith always seemed way to nasty to be in hufflepuff.. i didn't think they were supposed to be the nasty ones.. helga hufflepuff wanted to teach anyone who was magical!
I agree on a lot of this stuff. I really think the sorting is pretty random.

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#68 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 08:34 PM
 
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I think the Weasley's say something about that at some point after Ron is of age, basically, they can't tell who it is, so technically, they all could have done as they pleased at the Burrow and no one would have been the wiser/known it wasn't adults or of age students doing it. They pretty much rely on the parents to discipline the kids wrt magic unless it's a non-magic household.
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Yeah - that's the impression I got. So, the rule basically only applies to kids in Muggle families, and it still makes no sense. What if Ron or Hermione was visiting Harry, for example? They still can't tell who actually cast the spell, and not every Muggle family is going to ban all wizarding friends from visiting. There's no way a wizarding parent could ensure that their child never broke this rule, especially if they have multiple children, and some are of age.

I really found this part was just not thought through at all
See, I think it's akin to underage drinking; it's illegal and you're in trouble if you're caught...but you have to be caught kwim?
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#69 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 08:53 PM
 
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See, I think it's akin to underage drinking; it's illegal and you're in trouble if you're caught...but you have to be caught kwim?
Oh, I get that. But, then why have the whole trace thing going on? It's basically like saying if you live with Muggles, you have to follow the rule, but the rest of the kids don't. And, there's no allowance for it maybe being someone else who did the magic. That's what happened with Dobby, but didn't have to be a house elf. It wasn't handled very well.

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#70 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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the trace thing doesn't make sense really... if it could tell you who was doing magic they would have known it was dobby not harry. if it just alerts them to magic around underage wizards then they couldn't put it on kids with wizard parents and in book seven before harry comes of age ron and hermione wouldn't be able to do magic around him yk?
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#71 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 09:02 PM
 
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I think JKR was poking fun at some of the idiocy of beurocracy. Look at how flying carpets are contraband yet flying broomsticks are allowed! Plenty of real-life laws are equally random. Why is marijuana illegal yet both alcohol and tobacco are not? I remember reading about a teen mom who could sign the permission form to get her baby's pierced ears, but couldn't sign the same form for herself.

Some laws are just random, and unevenly enforced.

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#72 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think JKR was poking fun at some of the idiocy of beurocracy. Look at how flying carpets are contraband yet flying broomsticks are allowed! Plenty of real-life laws are equally random. Why is marijuana illegal yet both alcohol and tobacco are not? I remember reading about a teen mom who could sign the permission form to get her baby's pierced ears, but couldn't sign the same form for herself.

Some laws are just random, and unevenly enforced.
sort of O/T but a teen mom i know tried to brought her baby to the tatoo parlor to prove she was now allowed to sign legal documents. they let her too... but i don't think it was legal since i think it is only applicable when the consent form is for the baby
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#73 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 09:07 PM
 
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...they also said that families are often in the same house... how in the heck did crabbe and goyle get into slytherin? they aren't talented at all. they are kind of just big mean and stupid. slytherin was into pure bloods and only wanted to teach pure bloods..
I think you answered this question yourself. If Crabbe and Goyle's parents had been Slytherin, then I think Slytherin would have been the best fit for them. I certainly can't see them in say, Griffindor, can you?
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#74 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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lol no not really... but they don't have any of the qualities slytherin liked except that they weren't muggle born. it just seems like they got put there b/c they were death eater material yk?
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#75 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 11:20 PM
 
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lol no not really... but they don't have any of the qualities slytherin liked except that they weren't muggle born. it just seems like they got put there b/c they were death eater material yk?
My understanding on this is that Slytherin would never accept a muggle-born, and only clever half-bloods (Snape and Riddle would have applied here); and then was heavily family-centric. So Goyle as a half-blood might not have made it, etc.

I think the thing with Cedric and Ravenclaw is that Ravenclaw is about academic merit, but it's weighted toward book learning/memorization topics... ie-Runes and history but less favorable toward practice/nature oriented ones like charms or herbology. I would guess it would run that the head of Magical Creatures is often Griffindor; Potions Slytherin; Charms Hufflepuff; Ravenclaw Runes.

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#76 of 255 Old 06-23-2009, 11:57 PM
 
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I've thought about all that stuff, too. The class structures, etc. don't seem to make a lot of sense to me. I can't think of a single case where a student from another year is in a class, and that makes no sense, as you point out. When you're moving through individual classes, not whole grades (like high school, not elementary school), you always get at least a few kids from other levels in some classes. Hermione, for example, would probably be taking at least a few more advanced classes, with older students. It also seems weird that the classes continue to be taken by house/age group (eg. 3rd Gryffindors in Divination), even though the students are splitting into different courses. The scheduling just doesn't ring true.

It makes perfect sense for the country in which it is set. First years do classes with first years, seventh years with seventh years, and never the twain shall meet.
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#77 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 12:10 AM
 
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I have terrible insomnia and I find myself laying in the dark in the wee hours of the morning picking Harry Potter apart bit by bit and trying to puzzle it back together. I get way too into it and start wondering about other parts of their life, etc.

My six year old daughter is a mini-insomniac and she does the exact same thing. She has created her own little fan fic where Snape has a daughter named Chloe who is good and she has gone so far as to draw elaborate pictures of thier house and make up detailed and complicated back stories to go along with it.

I love Harry Potter and am enjoying reading this thread.

Something that I always wondered about was how everyone kept telling Harry how safe he was at Hogwarts and how nothing could harm him with Dumbledore keeping an eye on him there. Uh, this was contradicted again and again in book after book. I just don't get why people would continue to have such blind faith in Dumbledores ability to keep Harry safe there when so much was getting past him, kwim? Quirrel, Tom Riddle from the diary luring him into the tunnel thingy, Sirius Black breaking INTO Gryffindor tower (obviously Sirius was not bad but at the time most people believed him to be), the TriWizard Cup. And yet, everyone continued to insist that he didn't have to worry because he was safe and snug at Hogwarts with Dumbledore overseeing him. Just didn't make sense to me.
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#78 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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It makes perfect sense for the country in which it is set. First years do classes with first years, seventh years with seventh years, and never the twain shall meet.
But, it still doesn't make sense. Once the classes have started to split into electives, it's highly unlikely the same set-up would still exist. Take Divination. I doubt it would be a Gryffindor class - it's more likely that it would be a few Gryffindors, a few Ravenclaw...maybe a few each of Hufflepuff and Slytherin, as well. IIRC, by 6th year, it's still all Gryffindor or "Double" classes, and nothing else. That just doesn't sound right, once kids are all taking different classes.

I will admit that I don't know a lot about the UK educational system, though. My few friends in the UK never gave me the impression it worked that way. Since people can fail some courses and pass others, I honestly have trouble even imagining that. Maybe I'll talk to ds1's ex, and ask her about it.

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#79 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 12:44 AM
 
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I have terrible insomnia and I find myself laying in the dark in the wee hours of the morning picking Harry Potter apart bit by bit and trying to puzzle it back together. I get way too into it and start wondering about other parts of their life, etc.
I actually do this with a lot of books...more with HP than with some others, though.

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Something that I always wondered about was how everyone kept telling Harry how safe he was at Hogwarts and how nothing could harm him with Dumbledore keeping an eye on him there. Uh, this was contradicted again and again in book after book. I just don't get why people would continue to have such blind faith in Dumbledores ability to keep Harry safe there when so much was getting past him, kwim? Quirrel, Tom Riddle from the diary luring him into the tunnel thingy, Sirius Black breaking INTO Gryffindor tower (obviously Sirius was not bad but at the time most people believed him to be), the TriWizard Cup. And yet, everyone continued to insist that he didn't have to worry because he was safe and snug at Hogwarts with Dumbledore overseeing him. Just didn't make sense to me.
re: the bolded. Peter Pettigrew was bad, and he got in, too...for years. I agree with you, though. The whole "you're safe at Hogwarts" thing was kind of ridiculous. He had to fight a basilisk, for crying out loud!

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#80 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 01:50 AM
 
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It makes perfect sense for the country in which it is set. First years do classes with first years, seventh years with seventh years, and never the twain shall meet.
So then there is a class of just seventh years that didn't pass their exams only if there are three of them?
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#81 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 01:52 AM
 
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I doubt it would be a Gryffindor class - it's more likely that it would be a few Gryffindors, a few Ravenclaw...maybe a few each of Hufflepuff and Slytherin, as well. IIRC, by 6th year, it's still all Gryffindor or "Double" classes, and nothing else. That just doesn't sound right, once kids are all taking different classes.
I didn't think the classes were split by houses though, because I thought Draco took several classes with Harry, Ron, and Hermione.
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#82 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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they have some classes with other houses.. it took me awhile to figure out that 'double potions with slytherin' didn't mean potions for twice as long with slytherins.. it meant double as gryffindors plus slytherins... i think some of their classes are just their house but some of them are with others. like herbology with hufflepuffs... for some reason they have no classes with ravenclaw and atleast 2 with slytherins... which just seems like asking for trouble IMO

o and why did dumbledore make malfoy a prefect? and i thought that someone like dean may have been a better choice for prefect then ron yk?
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#83 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 02:00 AM
 
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I didn't think the classes were split by houses though, because I thought Draco took several classes with Harry, Ron, and Hermione.
Yeah - those ones were the ones where they doubled with Slytherins.

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#84 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 02:32 AM
 
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the trace thing doesn't make sense really... if it could tell you who was doing magic they would have known it was dobby not harry. if it just alerts them to magic around underage wizards then they couldn't put it on kids with wizard parents and in book seven before harry comes of age ron and hermione wouldn't be able to do magic around him yk?
I thought the trace thing was total crap! For example, tonks and lupin used magic in book 5 at the dursley's and nothing happened.

Honestly book 6 and 7 were a bit of a disappointment in my opinion. I enjoyed them way less than the others.

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o and why did dumbledore make malfoy a prefect?
Why did Dumbledore even allow Malfoy to keep attending Hogwarts? I thought it was really strange that once Dumbledore knew Voldemort was back, and knew which kids' fathers were death eaters and were actively helping him, he would let those kids stay at Hogwarts. I suppose he must have thought it wouldn't be fair to assume the kids were bad just because their parents were. (Or Rowling must have thought it would ruin the story if all the bad kids were out of it.)
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#86 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 08:38 AM
 
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So then there is a class of just seventh years that didn't pass their exams only if there are three of them?
I assumed that students who didn't pass their OWL in a certain subject wouldn't continue in that subject. So when it's time for 7th year Potions, any 7th years who hadn't passed their Potions exam would either be taking a different class or having a free period.
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#87 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 03:08 PM
 
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I assumed that students who didn't pass their OWL in a certain subject wouldn't continue in that subject. So when it's time for 7th year Potions, any 7th years who hadn't passed their Potions exam would either be taking a different class or having a free period.
I think that would be the case, but I think they'd still have to repeat classes they'd failed prior to the OWLs. They don't write OWLs until...5th year, isn't it?

The passing/failing thing didn't work for me, either. Neville screws up everything in most of his classes, especially potions. Yet, he just keeps moving along with the rest of them. Sure - some kids might scrape through, but Neville is way beyond that. He'd have been doing first year potions until he left Hogwarts.

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#88 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 03:21 PM
 
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So then there is a class of just seventh years that didn't pass their exams only if there are three of them?
I got the impression that if you fail a class, you fail the class, period. There isn't any chance to make it up later. And if you're struggling along, you're not held back- you just keep on struggling along, or get extra help from the teacher or another student outside of class. There wasn't any setup for Neville, in his 2nd year, to take Potions with the first year students. He had to stick with his class, no matter how poorly he was doing.

I do wonder if the Magical Trace thing was put on all Wizarding kids at age 12 or so, or if it was something new they added when Voldemort returned. If it's the latter, that would explain it's absence in earlier books.

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#89 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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but snape says something in book 6 about crabbe and goyle needing to pass their Defense against the dark arts OWl this time around... so i guess they failed it the first time?
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#90 of 255 Old 06-24-2009, 03:46 PM
 
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I got the impression that if you fail a class, you fail the class, period. There isn't any chance to make it up later. And if you're struggling along, you're not held back- you just keep on struggling along, or get extra help from the teacher or another student outside of class. There wasn't any setup for Neville, in his 2nd year, to take Potions with the first year students. He had to stick with his class, no matter how poorly he was doing.
Yeah, but that's what doesn't make sense. If he failed, why is he at the next level? It just doesn't come across as believable.

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I do wonder if the Magical Trace thing was put on all Wizarding kids at age 12 or so, or if it was something new they added when Voldemort returned. If it's the latter, that would explain it's absence in earlier books.
I don't even worry about its absence in earlier books. Considering the number of new ideas that Rowling tried to cram into the last two books, it's not a big deal to me if things are or aren't in the early books. I'll have re-read Deathly Hallows, because I thought it said the trace was related to the enforcement of underage magic restrictions, so I'd assumed it was part of the wizarding world all along.

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