Harry potter... do you ever wonder??? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-26-2009, 01:38 PM
 
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i always thought that maybe dumbledore intervened on behalf of neville and harry in regards to their potions grades.
OK, I'm going to dangerously jump right in without reading everything. I don't know about Neville. But I thought Harry always got passing grades in potions on his own (or, because Hermione badgered him to keep up), in spite of Snape's scornful comments and penchant for the red pen.

But I got the impression Harry was in Slughorn's potions class in his sixth year not because he wanted to be there but because Dumbledore put him there, so Harry could get that memory of Tom Riddle out of Slughorn.

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Old 06-26-2009, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i wondered if it was b/c of the memory or b/c harry would not have been allowed to continue in potions if snape was teaching. possibly a bit of both? i know dumbledore really wanted that memory but he had a pretty good idea of what the memory said before he got it... i'm not sure why he needed it that badly.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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and he took potions b/c he wanted to be an auror ... which he couldn't be w/o potions.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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there was something in one of the books (7 i think) that made me think dumbledore wasn't letting snape fail harry... i don't have my copy of book seven so i can't check... now this is going to bug me
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:20 PM
 
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Yeah - that's the impression I got. So, the rule basically only applies to kids in Muggle families, and it still makes no sense. What if Ron or Hermione was visiting Harry, for example? They still can't tell who actually cast the spell, and not every Muggle family is going to ban all wizarding friends from visiting. There's no way a wizarding parent could ensure that their child never broke this rule, especially if they have multiple children, and some are of age.

I really found this part was just not thought through at all.
There are a lot of incredibly stupid rules in the wizarding world. Seriously, the entire community should be forced to take a basic logic class with an emphasis on learning to ask "Does this really make any : sense whatsoever, or am I doing it to be a jerk?"
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There are a lot of incredibly stupid rules in the wizarding world. Seriously, the entire community should be forced to take a basic logic class with an emphasis on learning to ask "Does this really make any : sense whatsoever, or am I doing it to be a jerk?"
this is so true
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:05 PM
 
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Honestly, if Neville passed potions, they may as well close Hogwarts and send everyone home. That's what started my comments on this in the first place. I can't think of a single occasion where Neville didn't screw up his potion, usually in a spectacular way. He was no good at it. Now, it's possible that he may have done better on his OWL, because his nervousness about Snape wouldn't have been there.
Or maybe he just crammed for the test. The system actually feels a bit like the Japanese system where the teachers follow the same lesson plans around the country and kids just keep up as best they can, until they either do or don't pass their college entrance exams.

At least in anime/manga people get failing grades on tests all the time with no more penalty than taking a make-up exam (with no requirement to do any better).
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:46 PM
 
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There are a lot of incredibly stupid rules in the wizarding world. Seriously, the entire community should be forced to take a basic logic class with an emphasis on learning to ask "Does this really make any : sense whatsoever, or am I doing it to be a jerk?"
There are a lot of incredibly stupid rules in the Muggle world too.

I don't think Dumbledore intervened in anybody's grades. I think Snape was actually fair at the end-of-year evaluation, regardless of how nasty he was during the year. He might INTENSELY dislike those kids, but he's not out to hurt them.

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Old 06-26-2009, 04:21 PM
 
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and he took potions b/c he wanted to be an auror ... which he couldn't be w/o potions.
Ah, that's right.

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Old 06-26-2009, 05:01 PM
 
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This thread is great!! I'm reading the series aloud to my dd, which is a 2nd read for me. Since the first read was a quick one (3 years ago, I was 38 weeks pregnant with my son and decided that I absolutely had to read all (then) 6 books before he was born - luckily he wasn't born until after 41 weeks. ), I'm catching and questioning more things than the first time around. DD asked if the Weasleys went to school with James Potter and them, so we had to think that out and came to similar conclusions as the posts here. My current thing is, since we just finished GoF, is what was happening at the stadium while Harry and Cedric were gone? When did they realize something had gone wrong? How long were they gone? Was it real time? What did Moody/Crouch Jr do after the two had gone? What did he do to Fleur? I know there are no answers and the book doesn't address these, but I think about it all the same.

Also, the movies are anooying me, which I know is a totally different topic, but if I could vent...I am seeing them fo rthe first time, really, because our library is showing one a week leading up to HBP premiere. I find them terrible! The kids' acting is horrific! I'm not sure why they think they can move on after this, becasue I just don't see it. Thanks, rant over!
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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I think the scene in the graveyard took about 15-30 minutes. I'm not sure how long the maze took prior to that. I got the feeling that, at Hogwarts, everybody in the stands just assumed that the maze wasn't finished yet, until Harry and Cedric's body returned.

I wonder if maybe the Triwizard Cup WAS supposed to be a portkey, but only to take the winner from the center of the maze to the beginning of it, which could explain why nobody seemed surprised to see Harry and Cedric show up at the mouth of the maze clutching the Cup- until they realized Cedric was dead.

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Old 06-26-2009, 05:25 PM
 
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There are a lot of incredibly stupid rules in the wizarding world. Seriously, the entire community should be forced to take a basic logic class with an emphasis on learning to ask "Does this really make any : sense whatsoever, or am I doing it to be a jerk?"
There are certainly references in the book about how most wizards are lacking in basic logic. In Philosopher's Stone one of the things protecting the Stone was the collection of potions and the riddle that you needed to solve to figure out how to make it through. Hermione commented that it was just basic logic, and how difficult that would be for the average wizard to solve.

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Old 06-26-2009, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oo speaking of book 1. tell me what i am missing here. dumbledore said in the end that only someone who wanted to find the stone but not use it would be able to get it. so quirrel would have never been able to get and harry ron and hermione went through all of that for nothing? and actually endangered to stone more since quirrel almost took it from him?
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:41 PM
 
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But you can fail OWLs and it won't matter for getting into Auror training as long as you pass your NEWTs in the same subject. OWLs would only matter if you left school after doing them, and they were the only qualifications you had.
Actaully failing your OWLs will affect getting into the Aurors, you need certain grades on the OWLs to take NEWT level classes.

If you fail, then you sit down with your head of house and discuss your options... Hermione asked.

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Old 06-26-2009, 05:44 PM
 
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i always thought that maybe dumbledore intervened on behalf of neville and harry in regards to their potions grades. neville really only did so bad b/c he was petrified of snape and snape failed harry on everything just for the heck of it. but of course neville didn't get EE or higher on his potions OWL so
Do we know what OWLs Neville got beyond A in trasfiguration and O in herbology?

See I don't get this line of thinking, because Rowling isn't going to go into indepth detail on their grades and for the OWLs Snape wasn't the one who was administering the exam.

It is entirely possible that Neville and Harry were both able to pass on their own without someone intervening on their behalf.

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Old 06-26-2009, 05:45 PM
 
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But I got the impression Harry was in Slughorn's potions class in his sixth year not because he wanted to be there but because Dumbledore put him there, so Harry could get that memory of Tom Riddle out of Slughorn.
Harry was in Slughorn's class because he needed NEWT level potions to become an Auror.

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Old 06-26-2009, 05:49 PM
 
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I think the scene in the graveyard took about 15-30 minutes. I'm not sure how long the maze took prior to that. I got the feeling that, at Hogwarts, everybody in the stands just assumed that the maze wasn't finished yet, until Harry and Cedric's body returned.

I wonder if maybe the Triwizard Cup WAS supposed to be a portkey, but only to take the winner from the center of the maze to the beginning of it, which could explain why nobody seemed surprised to see Harry and Cedric show up at the mouth of the maze clutching the Cup- until they realized Cedric was dead.
I wonder too, if the cup was supposed to be a portkey, becasue I couldn't figure out exactly where Harry was when he came back. It spoke of grass under him and then everyone was there, so it had to be at the stadium, but inside the maze? outside? I would assume outside since everyone could get to him easily.

But didn't the teachers realize something was wrong? Particularly Dumbledore? There were the four patroling to be sure everyone was OK. Maybe they were relying on Moody to see through the grass? I assume the teachers didn't know because they would have sent everyone back to the castle immediately and no one would have been there when Harry came back.
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:50 PM
 
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Aren't laws in the real world essencially set up like that in the real world? I mean they can't have a police officer on every single underaged person to make sure they don't drink. They have to rely on the parents to control their kids. Why should wizarding families be exempt from being parents, and why should people with more then one kid be exempt from keeping an eye on all of them?

(P.S. I believe it was mentioned in one book that Fred and George did get a warning from the ministry for underaged magic and Mrs. Weasley was furious with them, so wizard born children aren't immune.)

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Old 06-26-2009, 05:53 PM
 
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I think the scene in the graveyard took about 15-30 minutes. I'm not sure how long the maze took prior to that. I got the feeling that, at Hogwarts, everybody in the stands just assumed that the maze wasn't finished yet, until Harry and Cedric's body returned.

I wonder if maybe the Triwizard Cup WAS supposed to be a portkey, but only to take the winner from the center of the maze to the beginning of it, which could explain why nobody seemed surprised to see Harry and Cedric show up at the mouth of the maze clutching the Cup- until they realized Cedric was dead.
My thought is that it was... a double port-key. As it, it was originally supposed to take people to the entrance of the maze (have to have someway to say "Here's the winner!"), but another port key spell was stuck on top of that so the first touch activates the most recent port key setting, sending someone to the graveyard, once that is gone the second touch sends the person to the original port key location.

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Old 06-26-2009, 05:55 PM
 
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I think it's a theme through out the books that the major deaths are pointless. Cedric dying changed nothing, sirius's dying was completely unnecessary. At the end of book 6, it appears that dumbledore died for nothing, as the locket was not really a horcrux.
Cedric dying totally changed everything for Harry. It wasn't just kiddy adventures anymore. Cedric's death signaled that Voldemort was back for real and it galvanized Harry.

Edited to say, Cedric's death was senseless, though, from a real life perspective. Voldemort was that heartless, he didn't even think twice about it. Cedric's death wasn't pointless as far as Harry's story goes, but it was purposefully abrupt and needless.

Sirius Black's death had to happen because of JKRs alchemy theme. It's weird and convoluted and I don't know exactly how personal journeys through alchemy work. But Harry's father-figure, Sirius, had to die as part of Harry's personal transformation in his alchemical 'black stage'.

The name Albus means white. Rubius (Hagrid) means red. JKR says she was fascinated with alchemy and that Harry's life is about the allegorical transition a hero makes through a yellow, white, red, black and gold stage of life. Or something like that. Anyway, knowing that about her makes some of her weirder plot points make more sense.

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Yes, I thought that was true too.

What I found improbable was that, after getting to the cemetery, a newly "born" and incredibly powerful dark lord, along with several of his death eaters, still let a 15(?) year old get away. Not only did he get away, but he also managed to drag Cedric's body with him.

I know he had that whole "help" from his parents ... but, still. The kid was 15, facing an incredibly powerful wizard, and surrounded by several powerful adult death eaters.

Though, of course, I realize he HAD to get away in order for the books to continue!
To Voldemort it wasn't improbable, it was unthinkable. I think he was simply so surprised about the whole wand-to-wand, priori incantatum thing, it just really blew his mind. He certainly wasn't expecting that. Time and again, Voldemort under estimates his encounters with Harry. Harry was going to be dead by the time he was done there, he certainly didn't think he'd have to plan ahead for the possibility that Harry would be getting away.

IMO Harry got Cedric's body as well because Harry is athletically gifted like that. It's like how he's a great quidditch seeker, able to grab the snitch away from Malfoy at the last second.

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another thing i wondered about the deathly hallows and half blood prince is why lucius and narcissa didn't run to dumbledore and beg him to hide them after voldemort asked draco to kill dumbledore.. and why didn;t they run the first chance they could and look for draco in the castle instead of waiting for voldemort to go in? i had one more.. i'll get back to you.
During all the speculation between HBP and Deathly Hallows I was convinced that Snape had taken Draco into Dumbledore's pre arranged wizard witness protection program. Deathly Hallows was going to open with the now very humble and grateful Malfoys being taken to join Draco in hiding.

But that's not the Malfoy's perspective! At the start of Deathly Hallows they probably thought things were pretty uncomfortable but that they were still in control. They probably figured they could still work the situation to their advantage, come out on top. Fortunately for Draco, Narcissa valued the life of her son more than she wanted Voldemort to obtain his nutty objectives, and when things went pear shaped, she was willing to find out from Harry if Draco was still alive. She still couldn't do it without gouging Harry's chest with her fingernails.

I prefer that the Malfoys were the same imperious snots to the end of the story. Even in the epilogue, at Platform 9 3/4 when their kids are bording the Hogwarts Express for the first time, grown-up Draco only gives Harry the slightest nod of acknowledgment.

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Double potions would mean two class periods together. So if a regular class was 40 minutes, double potions would be 80 minutes.
I always figured it was like 40 minutes of lecture, 40 minutes of lab.

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Old 06-26-2009, 06:03 PM
 
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You guys are making my brain tired, but I loves me some Harry Potter so....


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Old 06-26-2009, 06:17 PM
 
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You also can't ignore the fact that the Malfoys had Voldemort using their home as a base, and I got the distinct impression that it was not a polite "May I use your home?" request, but more of "I think I need to keep an eye on you three so I am using this place to work from" order.

When traditional brainwashing tactics don't work for Voldemort, he uses fear. He is the one wizard everyone fears above all others. He uses that to his advantage. What I got out of the Deathly Hallows and a bit from Half-Blood Prince was the feeling that the Malfoys were at the point where they were terrified of what Voldemort might decide to do to them and the only way to protect themselves was to try and return to his good side.

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Old 06-26-2009, 06:46 PM
 
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Yeah, like I said earlier. They are afraid of being killed if they deny him anything.

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Old 06-26-2009, 06:57 PM
 
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Yup, Voldy might not understand love, but he sure understands fear.

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Old 06-26-2009, 07:10 PM
 
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http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s/viewpost.gif I think it's a theme through out the books that the major deaths are pointless. Cedric dying changed nothing, sirius's dying was completely unnecessary. At the end of book 6, it appears that dumbledore died for nothing, as the locket was not really a horcrux.
isn't that real life though? I mean how often does a death mean something huge? This was war of course people were going to die. To me it didn't matter if their death meant something on the grand scale they were still characters who died so in Harry's world still people he was close to that passed on and that affects a person.

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Old 06-26-2009, 07:11 PM
 
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There are a lot of incredibly stupid rules in the Muggle world too.
Well, yes, wasn't saying there weren't. Just because we all need to ask ourselves the same question doesn't let the wizards off the hook.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:13 PM
 
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There are certainly references in the book about how most wizards are lacking in basic logic. In Philosopher's Stone one of the things protecting the Stone was the collection of potions and the riddle that you needed to solve to figure out how to make it through. Hermione commented that it was just basic logic, and how difficult that would be for the average wizard to solve.
And did anyone else absolutely hate that Rowling didn't list out the order of the potions? It was like "awww, not enough information to solve the puzzle"
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:18 PM
 
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Aren't laws in the real world essencially set up like that in the real world? I mean they can't have a police officer on every single underaged person to make sure they don't drink. They have to rely on the parents to control their kids. Why should wizarding families be exempt from being parents, and why should people with more then one kid be exempt from keeping an eye on all of them?
But in the real world the cops don't get called if a kid opens up the liquor cabinet. Or rather, to make the analogy more accurate, if someone under a certain height opens the liquor cabinet.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:42 PM
 
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But in the real world the cops don't get called if a kid opens up the liquor cabinet. Or rather, to make the analogy more accurate, if someone under a certain height opens the liquor cabinet.
They do if someone under a certain age is spotted drinking out in the open. At home, a good number of countries allow parents to provide this child with alcohol in the home. But if someone calls the cops because they saw them drinking underage at the park or beach, then you child will get in trouble for it.

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Old 06-26-2009, 07:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by journeymom View Post
The name Albus means white. Rubius (Hagrid) means red. JKR says she was fascinated with alchemy and that Harry's life is about the allegorical transition a hero makes through a yellow, white, red, black and gold stage of life. Or something like that. Anyway, knowing that about her makes some of her weirder plot points make more sense.
I didn't know about this! There was also Sirius Black. What were the yellow and gold? I see Gryffindor's crest is red and gold, so maybe that? I would love more info on this. I'll go look too.
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