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#1 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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does anybody else totally over think these books and wonder about this stuff as well? i hope it's not just me! i know they are children's books which explains most of this... but still... i would love to talk about this if anyone else is interested!

things i wonder about the harry potter books

* why are all of the teachers single and childless? and if they aren't why don't their children go to hogwarts?

* how do house elves make more house elves? the blacks and the crouches have been served by the same family of house elves for generations... how did their house elves pro create if they are bound to the house?

*why was it so important that voldemort not get the prophecy? what could it possibly have changed

*why on earth would dumbledore think that snape could put aside his prejudices to teach harry occlumency? the man is supposed to have great instincts.. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know thats going to end badly.

*howcome dumbledore was so dead set on harry knowing no more then he needs to know in the beginning of book five? and why didn't it occur to him that keeping harry locked up at headquarters would be safer then him wandering around at the durselys?

*what happens to the dursleys after book seven? where do they go?

*why do people think rita skeeter is anymore reliable then the quibbler?

*why aren't thestrals in hogwarts a history? if they were hermione would have known about them. how did she not know about them? it seems like something she would know.

*howcome the weasly's don't seem to have known james, sirius, lupin etc.? wouldn't they have been in school at the same time?

*why do muggles have TVs, computers, telephones, paper, pens etc. but wizards don't?

*wouldn't wizards have to use muggle post to pay bills?

*are all wizard babies born at home or do they go to the muggle hospital?

*what do wizard kids do before they are 11 and go away to school?

*who is hogwarts headmaster when harry's kids are at school?

anyone else wonder about these things? do you have other things you wonder about? or am i the only nut who over thinks childrens books?
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#2 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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This is why I'm into fan fiction-- it's fun to speculate.

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#3 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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o cool! i was hoping there were other people who wonder about this stuff!
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#4 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 04:11 PM
 
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what do wizard kids do before they are 11 and go away to school?
DS1 and I have had multiple discussions about this one. We've covered various aspects. One of the most obvious is the issue of the "use of magic by underaged wizards" thing. The Ministry couldn't tell that it was Dobby, not Harry, who used a levitation charm at the beginning of Chamber of Secrets. So...how do they enforce the rules for underage wizards who live in homes where magic is being performed all the time? They can't tell who's doing it.

re: House Elves. I didn't get the feeling that house elves are always bound to spend all their time at the house they work in - only that they have to have permission to leave. So, procreation wouldn't be a big problem.

I suspect that Arthur and Molly are older than James, Sirius, Lupin, and the rest. James and Lily were quite young when they had Harry (I think I worked it out to 21 or something like that)...but Bill and Charlie are a lot older than Harry, Draco, Ron, etc. Maybe Arthur and Molly were at the school when the others were there, but I think they'd have been quite a bit older.

I do wonder how many students are supposed to be at Hogwarts, but Rowling doesn't know herself, so I'll never figure it out. Using one measure, I'd guess under 300 (approx. 70 in each house). Just based on general descriptions and overall "vibe", I'd say closer to 1000.

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#5 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 04:25 PM
 
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Okay, I don't have time to answer a lot of these right now, so here are the fast ones...

*why was it so important that voldemort not get the prophecy? what could it possibly have changed

Voldemort didn't hear the whole prophecy, so he thought there was more info like something that made Harry special, super magical powers or something; secretly possess the Elder Wand or something like that. That fear kept him from attacking full on for a little while.

*why on earth would dumbledore think that snape could put aside his prejudices to teach harry occlumency? the man is supposed to have great instincts.. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know thats going to end badly.

Umm... Deus ex machina. Or whatever would be the equivalent of "because Rowling needed it for her tale to work as she wanted." That's all I got on this one.

*why do people think rita skeeter is anymore reliable then the quibbler?

NY Times versus Enquirer, basically. Quibbler is seen like a flakey tabloid, and while *we* know Skeeter is a hack, sneaky, and lying about stuff, general wizarding public appears not to.

*howcome the weasly's don't seem to have known james, sirius, lupin etc.? wouldn't they have been in school at the same time?

I know I've see some timelines. Weasleys and Hagrid are contemporaries I believe, and a good 10 years or so older than Snape, Lupin, Potters.

*why do muggles have TVs, computers, telephones, paper, pens etc. but wizards don't?

Some do, but generally speaking, they're not considered "cool" unless you're a rebellious teen... or something like that.

*wouldn't wizards have to use muggle post to pay bills?

I imagine there would be a wizard service that would do this for you if you live somewhere that uses electricity, city water, etc.

*who is hogwarts headmaster when harry's kids are at school?

Neville is a professor, but I don't think they list a headmaster. Might be McGonnagal, if she's still alive, because she was "next in line" for the most part.

anyone else wonder about these things? do you have other things you wonder about? or am i the only nut who over thinks childrens books?

There are books and books worth of people speculating on all this and more in HP!

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#6 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 04:28 PM
 
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re: this one


DS1 and I have had multiple discussions about this one. We've covered various aspects. One of the most obvious is the issue of the "use of magic by underaged wizards" thing. The Ministry couldn't tell that it was Dobby, not Harry, who used a levitation charm at the beginning of Chamber of Secrets. So...how do they enforce the rules for underage wizards who live in homes where magic is being performed all the time? They can't tell who's doing it.
I think the Weasley's say something about that at some point after Ron is of age, basically, they can't tell who it is, so technically, they all could have done as they pleased at the Burrow and no one would have been the wiser/known it wasn't adults or of age students doing it. They pretty much rely on the parents to discipline the kids wrt magic unless it's a non-magic household.

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#7 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 05:44 PM
 
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I think the Weasley's say something about that at some point after Ron is of age, basically, they can't tell who it is, so technically, they all could have done as they pleased at the Burrow and no one would have been the wiser/known it wasn't adults or of age students doing it. They pretty much rely on the parents to discipline the kids wrt magic unless it's a non-magic household.
Yeah - that's the impression I got. So, the rule basically only applies to kids in Muggle families, and it still makes no sense. What if Ron or Hermione was visiting Harry, for example? They still can't tell who actually cast the spell, and not every Muggle family is going to ban all wizarding friends from visiting. There's no way a wizarding parent could ensure that their child never broke this rule, especially if they have multiple children, and some are of age.

I really found this part was just not thought through at all.


Oh - computers, etc. I can't see any reason why wizards couldn't have them, and she certainly never says that none of them do. I got the impression that the Wizarding world just isn't that interested in Muggle technology (aside from an occasional oddball like Arthur), and they've already got their own ways of doing many things that Muggles developed technology to take care of.

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#8 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 06:09 PM
 
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If you think there's something wrong with you for being an adult and wondering about the Harry potter universe, then I guess you missed the HUGE "do not read until you've finished the Half Blood Prince" thread that used to be on MDC. AnnetteMarie- how long did that thread get before it was finally yanked for too many links to "adult" fanfic?

A few of these questions have actually been anwered by JKR in interviews.

I beleive Molly and Arthur Weasley are several years older than James Potter and his friends. As for the "pre Hogwarts education" question, she said that some families used Muggle elementary schools, and other families home educated their kids. She specifically said that Molly Weasley home educated her kids.

If Voldemort had gotten the prophecy, and realized that he risked transfering his own power to Harry or Neville when he struck, he might not have struck at either child- or at least he might have waited to see which one showed the most promise of being his nemesis before acting. Getting it "now", when Harry was a teenager, might have given him an "edge" about how to beat Harry.

As for Hogwarts teachers being single and childless- do we know that for a fact? All we know is that HARRY never met any of the teacher's families. I get the feeling that McGonnagol is probably a grandma, and could be widowed, or her DP might live at Hogwarts but we never met him or her. There's plenty of ppeculation that Ms. Pince might be Snape's mother, and is dating Filch.

Nobody ever asked JKR about childbirth. There is that Wizarding hospital, but there wasn't any mention of a maternity ward nor too many pg women in the waiting room. My guess would be home births, as it's probably safer than Muggle home births (think about how wizards can safely fall 50 ft from a broom stick). Besides, the Wizarding World never picked up on Muggle technology in many areas, and it seems logical that they'd be "stuck in the Middle Ages because it works" with birthing too.

Quote:
*why on earth would dumbledore think that snape could put aside his prejudices to teach harry occlumency? the man is supposed to have great instincts.. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know thats going to end badly.

*howcome dumbledore was so dead set on harry knowing no more then he needs to know in the beginning of book five? and why didn't it occur to him that keeping harry locked up at headquarters would be safer then him wandering around at the durselys?
I think both of these were answered at the end of Book 5. Dumbledore was specifically worried about Voldemort learning about OoTP plans via Harry's mind. It wasn't so much about "keeping Harry safer" as "keeping Harry in the dark so Harry can't accidentally inform Voldemort."

This was his same reason for not teaching him Occlumency himself. Dumbledore was afraid that Voldemort might learn that Harry and Dumbledore were more like grandfather/grandson than teacher/student, and might try to use Harry to get information about Dumbledore. He didn't think it was safe to try and teach Harry Occlumency himself. Snape was the obvious person to do this because Snape was already at Hogwarts. I don't know of Dumbledore ever realized how badly the lessons were going- Snape might have been embarrassed about his inability to teach Harry and hid that from Dumbledore.

I think Dumbledore didn't think to test Harry on Occlumency in Book 6 because he had other priorities by then.

The Thestrals probably weren't in Hogwarts, a History, because the author(s) of the book didn't think it was important enough to mention. No mention was made of house elves either- an omission Hermione noticed. The book was probably more about what the wizards and witches themselves accomplished, not magical creatures.

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Yeah - that's the impression I got. So, the rule basically only applies to kids in Muggle families, and it still makes no sense. What if Ron or Hermione was visiting Harry, for example? They still can't tell who actually cast the spell, and not every Muggle family is going to ban all wizarding friends from visiting. There's no way a wizarding parent could ensure that their child never broke this rule, especially if they have multiple children, and some are of age.

I really found this part was just not thought through at all.


Oh - computers, etc. I can't see any reason why wizards couldn't have them, and she certainly never says that none of them do. I got the impression that the Wizarding world just isn't that interested in Muggle technology (aside from an occasional oddball like Arthur), and they've already got their own ways of doing many things that Muggles developed technology to take care of.


I kind of got the impression that the "no underage magic" rule was mostly to prevent the muggle world from finding out about the wizarding world. I think that it's left to wizarding parents to decide what is acceptable inside of their homes but that outside of their homes, the ministry is in charge of making sure nothing happens. Kind of like drinking laws in the USA? Parents can serve their own children inside of their private home but not in public. Just what I got from it.

Also, I got the feeling that the Weasleys are at least a decade older than the Potters and their friends. I think they're older than Hagrid, too though, right? Because Tom (Voldemort) was at Hogwarts with the Potters and Hagrid... correct? I am not sure as I haven't read the books in quite awhile now.

I'm getting ready to re-read the series in preparation for the coming movie release. I'll have all kinds of stuff to talk about during that process, I'm sure!!
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#10 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 07:41 PM
 
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Yeah - that's the impression I got. So, the rule basically only applies to kids in Muggle families, and it still makes no sense. What if Ron or Hermione was visiting Harry, for example? They still can't tell who actually cast the spell, and not every Muggle family is going to ban all wizarding friends from visiting. There's no way a wizarding parent could ensure that their child never broke this rule, especially if they have multiple children, and some are of age.

I really found this part was just not thought through at all.


Oh - computers, etc. I can't see any reason why wizards couldn't have them, and she certainly never says that none of them do. I got the impression that the Wizarding world just isn't that interested in Muggle technology (aside from an occasional oddball like Arthur), and they've already got their own ways of doing many things that Muggles developed technology to take care of.
I always thought of it as a little like CPS or something. They really only pay attention to a certain number of families who pop up on their radar for whatever reason. Because it doesn't really seem very enforceable or realistic.

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#11 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 07:43 PM
 
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I know one of the Weasleys, Molly I think, say that Hagrid was assistant gamekeeper when she was in school, and I think she remembered him from being in her class or something. I think Hagrid is 2-3 years older than the Weasleys and hence he got kicked out and became assistant gamekeeper in his 2 year IIRC.

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#12 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Also, I got the feeling that the Weasleys are at least a decade older than the Potters and their friends. I think they're older than Hagrid, too though, right? Because Tom (Voldemort) was at Hogwarts with the Potters and Hagrid... correct? I am not sure as I haven't read the books in quite awhile now.
i thought tom was at hogwarts way before the potters.... like 20 yrs before them or something... but after the whole thing with slughorns memory i am not sure....
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#13 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know one of the Weasleys, Molly I think, say that Hagrid was assistant gamekeeper when she was in school, and I think she remembered him from being in her class or something. I think Hagrid is 2-3 years older than the Weasleys and hence he got kicked out and became assistant gamekeeper in his 2 year IIRC.
and according to toms memory in the chamber of secrets tom and hagrid were both at school together. sooo maybe molly and arthur were there at the same time?
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#14 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 08:09 PM
 
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and according to toms memory in the chamber of secrets tom and hagrid were both at school together. sooo maybe molly and arthur were there at the same time?
This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronol..._Potter_series) shows Riddle at school beginning 1938; Hagrid 1940; 1968 to 1970 Weasleys elope (!? that I didn't know. Cool!) So I'm totally wrong on them being there with Hagrid; the earliest would probably have been 10 years before they elope I imagine, so they started there prob 58-60. I guess Hagrid was still assistant gamekeeper when they were there, but had been for a long time already. 1971 Potters, Lupin, Snape, etc. begin at school.

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#15 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 08:46 PM
 
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I just recently read all the Harry Potter books for the first time and I enjoyed them, but was left feeling like a lot of things didn't quite make sense. (I read them to my DD, who loved, loved, loved them.) Here are some of the things I wondered about:

Why didn't Dumbledore want anyone but Harry, Ron, and Hermione to know about the horcruxes? I can see why he might not have wanted to tell the whole Order of the Phoenix, but wouldn't it have made sense for him to make sure someone else knew about them, especially since he knew he was going to die? Surely there was someone (McGonagall, for instance) he could have trusted with the information? Why not let Harry have a little more help with such a crucial task?

Likewise, it seems like he ought to have told someone besides Snape about Harry being a horcrux and needing to die. And why did Dumbledore tell Snape that Voldemort had to be the one to kill Harry? I still don't get why it wouldn't have worked just as well for anyone else to have done it. (Except maybe for the whole Elder Wand thing, but Dumbledore couldn't have foreseen that.)

Speaking of the Elder Wand, I was confused about what exactly was protecting Harry in his final encounters with Voldemort. When Harry lets Voldemort try to kill him, Dumbledore's explanation for why he didn't actually die is that he can't die while Voldemort has some of his blood. But then in the next encounter, it apparently becomes important that Harry is the true master of the Elder Wand, so the Elder Wand won't kill him. But wouldn't the fact that Voldemort has some of his blood still protect him even if he weren't master of the Elder Wand? And Voldemort had the Elder Wand in the previous encounter, too. Did that have anything to do with Harry not being killed? What about Harry possessing the Deathly Hallows? Did that protect him at all? Was he still considered the possessor of the Resurrection Stone once he dropped it? (And I never was satisfied with the explanation that Voldemort couldn't kill Harry as a baby because his mother loved him and was willing to die for him. It's not as if Harry is the first person in history who ever had someone willing to die to protect him.)
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#16 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i agree about telling only snape about harry.... i mean what if voldemort had hung around to watch snape die? how would snape have told harry?

also in the first book it said that james and lily were head boy and girl... but later they talk about how much trouble he got in with sirius and how lupin was made a prefect in hope that he could keep the in line.

dumbledores obsessive secrecy bugs me too... i mean he orders people around and expects them to trust him without actually telling them anything... he obviously doesn't trust them so why should they trust him?

o and why is it ok that dumbledore hire craptastic teachers just b/c they are somehow connected to voldemort? trelawny and snape are both terrible teachers.. and on a similar note... i love hagrid but he's not exactly a good teacher yk? i would think the quality of the teaching should come first... maybe he should have started a nice closed community for everyone he wanted to baby sit but couldn't teach.

it always annoyed me that harry didn't have to kill voldemort.. he was killed by his own rebounding curse... i mean i know its a kids book... so get why... but still it was sort of obnoxious.
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#17 of 255 Old 06-21-2009, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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ooo and the harry not dieing thing confused me too... the elder wand thing i understood.. not the other part though.
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does anybody else totally over think these books and wonder about this stuff as well? i hope it's not just me! i know they are children's books which explains most of this... but still... i would love to talk about this if anyone else is interested!

things i wonder about the harry potter books

* why are all of the teachers single and childless? and if they aren't why don't their children go to hogwarts?

Rowling has stated in interviews that not all the teachers are single. If they have children then either 1) they have all ready graduated from Hogwarts 2) they are too young or 3) they are in a different year then our hero and thus are simply not mentioned.

* how do house elves make more house elves? the blacks and the crouches have been served by the same family of house elves for generations... how did their house elves pro create if they are bound to the house?

Asexual reproduction! At least that's what we figure in this house.

*why was it so important that voldemort not get the prophecy? what could it possibly have changed

He was fighting with only half the information. Harry had all the information and therefore had the advantage. Number one rule of war, know more then your enemy.

*why on earth would dumbledore think that snape could put aside his prejudices to teach harry occlumency? the man is supposed to have great instincts.. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know thats going to end badly.

The same reason he trusted Snape period.

*howcome dumbledore was so dead set on harry knowing no more then he needs to know in the beginning of book five? and why didn't it occur to him that keeping harry locked up at headquarters would be safer then him wandering around at the durselys?

At the Dursleys, Harry was protected by his mothers sacrefice, something that the Order headquarters didn't offer.

*what happens to the dursleys after book seven? where do they go?

My guess is, they moved on with their lives. Just like everyone else did.

*why do people think rita skeeter is anymore reliable then the quibbler?

Rita was the one who wrote the interview with Harry about Voldy's return, that it was true when all other sources were lying gives her credibility. The Quibbler just printed the story and is knows for being more then a little out there. Rita wrote for the prophet before the interview so her background is a little more solid too.

*why aren't thestrals in hogwarts a history? if they were hermione would have known about them. how did she not know about them? it seems like something she would know.


They may have been an addition from after the timeline Hogwarts: A History was writen.


*howcome the weasly's don't seem to have known james, sirius, lupin etc.? wouldn't they have been in school at the same time?

They weren't at the school at the same time. Mr. and Mrs. Weasly are at least a decade older then Jame, Remus, Sirius, and Pettigrew.

*why do muggles have TVs, computers, telephones, paper, pens etc. but wizards don't?

Wizards don't need them. They do have wireless, and they do have pens and paper, just in different forms.

*wouldn't wizards have to use muggle post to pay bills?

Why? They don't use muggle services. Wizards live in wizard owned houses, and use magic for light, heat, utillities. Plus we find out in book 7 that there seems to be wizards working at the post offices, when Petunia wrote to Dumbledore, it is implied that she sent it via muggle mail.

*are all wizard babies born at home or do they go to the muggle hospital?

I figure it's probably a bit of both...

*what do wizard kids do before they are 11 and go away to school?

According to Rowling, some go to muggle school and some, like the Weasleys, are homeschooled.

*who is hogwarts headmaster when harry's kids are at school?

I don't think that's every been revealed.

anyone else wonder about these things? do you have other things you wonder about? or am i the only nut who over thinks childrens books?
As for the question about wondering... Um, I think I've clearly answered that.

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#19 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 12:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
i thought tom was at hogwarts way before the potters.... like 20 yrs before them or something... but after the whole thing with slughorns memory i am not sure....
Yeah - way before. I think Moaning Myrtle was supposed to have been killed by the Basilisk fifty years prior to the events in Chamber of Secrets. So, even allowing that Harry's parents finished at Hogwarts several years before he was born, that leaves a large gap between the time that Tom and Hagrid were at Hogwarts, and the time that the Potters, Snape, Sirius and the rest were there. I'm sure the Weasleys were there sometime during the gap.

ETA: Never mind. I see that EviesMom covered all this.

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#20 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 12:09 AM
 
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lol i love you.
thank you for asking the questions i was too afraid too haha..

now off to read. lol

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#21 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 12:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Daffodil View Post
(And I never was satisfied with the explanation that Voldemort couldn't kill Harry as a baby because his mother loved him and was willing to die for him. It's not as if Harry is the first person in history who ever had someone willing to die to protect him.)
This is my single biggest gripe with the Harry Potter books (and, although ds1 and I both enjoy them, I have many!). I'm quite certain that during Voldemort's first reign of terror alone, there were many people who willingly died to protect someone. It makes no sense that this protected Harry, but nobody else.

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also in the first book it said that james and lily were head boy and girl... but later they talk about how much trouble he got in with sirius and how lupin was made a prefect in hope that he could keep the in line.
I find the back characterization of James Potter absolutely ridiculous. Everybody thinks he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but all the internal evidence suggests that he was a...prat. He was a troublmaker, and a bully. I have to assume that he improved a lot in his last year or so, and after he finished at Hogwarts, but the whole "James Potter was such a wonderful person" thing doens't mesh at all with the way he was actually portrayed, both in the penseive, and by his own friends.

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o and why is it ok that dumbledore hire craptastic teachers just b/c they are somehow connected to voldemort? trelawny and snape are both terrible teachers.. and on a similar note... i love hagrid but he's not exactly a good teacher yk? i would think the quality of the teaching should come first... maybe he should have started a nice closed community for everyone he wanted to baby sit but couldn't teach.
I was really disappointed with the direction Rowling took Hagrid after he became a teacher. He started off as a character I really liked, even though some students thought he was a buffoon. By the end of the series, he pretty much was a buffoon.

Oh - and my other pet peeve is about Harry and the Cruciatus curse. I found the fact that cast an unforgivable curse, after everything he'd been through and done, solely because someone disrespected Professer McGonagall, really distasteful. Sure - I get that he was mad, but...this was torture, and had been condemned by the entire wizarding community. Talk about blurring the lines between the good guys and the bad guys. "Ooohh...you spit on someone I respect, so I'm going to cast an unforgivable curse on you". Wow...just wow.

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#22 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 12:20 AM
 
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Without pulling out any of the books, I don't understand:

What was the Malfoy's role after the Battle at Hogwarts, what kind of penance did they do to be just accepted back into society? Were any other death eaters allowed back in versus going to Azkaban? Did Narcissa get taken away? Repent? (Lucius? I can't remember where he was in the end)

What happened to the however many death eaters were left after Voldemort died? They weren't ALL there were they? Did they all either give up and go to/back to Azkaban or fight to the death?

How/when did Dumbledore expect to die? Clearly not when he did, so what did he *think* would happen?

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#23 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 12:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
This is my single biggest gripe with the Harry Potter books (and, although ds1 and I both enjoy them, I have many!). I'm quite certain that during Voldemort's first reign of terror alone, there were many people who willingly died to protect someone. It makes no sense that this protected Harry, but nobody else.
I've always thought that there was more to it, like a *mother's* direct protection had some special power. I don't think most of the people killed, while they may have had someone who would have willingly died to protect them, had their mother's direct protection, right there with them.


I find the back characterization of James Potter absolutely ridiculous. Everybody thinks he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but all the internal evidence suggests that he was a...prat. He was a troublmaker, and a bully. I have to assume that he improved a lot in his last year or so, and after he finished at Hogwarts, but the whole "James Potter was such a wonderful person" thing doens't mesh at all with the way he was actually portrayed, both in the penseive, and by his own friends.

I totally agree.

I was really disappointed with the direction Rowling took Hagrid after he became a teacher. He started off as a character I really liked, even though some students thought he was a buffoon. By the end of the series, he pretty much was a buffoon.

I agree on this too.

Oh - and my other pet peeve is about Harry and the Cruciatus curse. I found the fact that cast an unforgivable curse, after everything he'd been through and done, solely because someone disrespected Professer McGonagall, really distasteful. Sure - I get that he was mad, but...this was torture, and had been condemned by the entire wizarding community. Talk about blurring the lines between the good guys and the bad guys. "Ooohh...you spit on someone I respect, so I'm going to cast an unforgivable curse on you". Wow...just wow.[/QUOTE]

And, yup. Won't attack Stan Shunpike, who is about to kill him, but better not be rude to Minerva. Maybe he has a student crush on his schoolmarm?

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#24 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 12:54 AM
 
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I wonder about this same stuff!

I'm also a huge fan of Severus and have had to go to fan fiction for a better, alternate ending. Because JK Rowling was just cruel to the man! After everything he went through, too.

Here is what I don't get: how could Dumbledore, who is portrayed as fairly omniscient and powerful, NOT know that Voldemort was in that turban on the professor's head? I mean, really! Doesn't Hogwarts have better security?

Same with Mad Eye Moody - how could he not have known the guy wasn't him? Shouldn't they have set up some kind of better code word or security system?

I realize there would be no plot without these elements, but it just seemed a weak point to me in terms of believability.

I, too, don't get why they kept Harry in the dark. Surely they realized that was more dangerous after first year!

And, if Hermione, at age 17, modified her parent's memories, what did she do with their dental practice and home (mortgage, bills, insurance, etc.) At age 17 she was a minor in the muggle world ... so how did that work out?

And why in the world are Ron and Hermione a couple? They are so incompatible intellectually!

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#25 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 03:35 AM
 
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Oh - and one other thing. Where the heck is Veritaserum through the whole first four books? Nobody believes that Harry didn't put his own name in the Goblet of Fire, and there's potentially a huge rift between Durmstrang, Beaubatons and Hogwarts. Everyone thinks Harry's a liar. So...where's the Veritaserum? Where is it when the whole "did Sirius do it?" thing comes up? Sure - maybe it was a new development between the killing of the Potters and the time span of the books...but there's no suggestion that it was only a year or two old at the time of Order of the Phoenix, so why wasn't it used on Sirius in Prisoner of Azkaban? I'm about to go to bed, and can't think of the others, but I remember there were several places where the Veritaserum would have made a huge difference...but was never used (oh - Harry's original trial in OotP, about using his magic on the Dementors was one). Then, it was suddenly pulled out to deal with a bunch of teenagers??

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#26 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 08:12 AM
 
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How/when did Dumbledore expect to die? Clearly not when he did, so what did he *think* would happen?
I don't think he had a definite plan; I think he was just waiting for the time when it seemed necessary, when he would tell Snape to act the part of the Death Eater and kill him publicly. I think after he and Harry visited the cave and drinking that potion left him in such bad shape, he had decided it was time, and that was why he wanted Harry to fetch Snape. But even before that evening, I imagine he thought it would be soon.
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#27 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 08:29 AM
 
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Another thing that bothers me is the plot of Goblet of Fire. Voldemort comes up with this elaborate plan of entering Harry in the Tri-Wizard Tournament and spending the whole year trying to help him win, just to set up a situation where he will hopefully grab a portkey and be taken to where Voldemort is waiting for him?! There are so many simpler, quicker ways of getting him to grab a portkey that are much likelier to work. Like, in the first week of school the fake Moody leaves something interesting-looking on Harry's bed, or invites him to go for a walk and says, "Hey, what's that on the ground?" and WHOOSH! Harry's in the graveyard.

Maybe the magical protection at Hogwarts makes it impossible to set up unauthorized portkeys on the grounds. But the fake Moody should have been able to lure Harry to a portkey in Hogsmeade somehow.
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#28 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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omg i so agree about veritaserum. why wouldn't they just use that to ask about harry entering his name.... and why wouldn't fudge use that in the fifth book if he is so sure that harry is a lying looney tune?

and yeah i think if dumbledore is as bright as he is supposed to be he should have noticed mad eye wasn't mad eye. but she isn't great with continuity... she describes the characters personalities and such but then doesn't reinforce that with their actions unless it happens to work with the plot. half the time dumbledore is brilliant and half the time he is sort of oblivious.. i mean pick on for goodness sake. same with sirius... he apparently loves harry like a son and all that except for when he gets all pissy b/c he is not just like james. ummm james had parents and family and all that... so he had the luxury to take risks... harry has no family but sirius ... it makes sense that he wouldn't want sirius to die or go to azkaban yk??

also i think it was ridiculous that dumbledore never told harry about the prophecy until the end after sirius died. the kid was dreaming about the department of mysteries for goodness sake... and he knew voldemort would try and lure him there, he knew harry would take the bait.. and yet did not tell him.

btw this is one of those times cell phones would have been useful... ooo and this really bugs me... he doesn't remember the stupid mirror till after sirius is dead... he could have saved himself the trouble of sneaking into umbridge's office... but no... he doesn't even think about it. this is an example of one of the things that bugs me the most about her writing... she writes her characters as sort of dumb.... a lot of the trouble they get into could be avoided if they had a bit more common sense.
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#29 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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another thing that doesn't make sense is when they talk about not knowing who was acting of their free will and who was under the imperius curse... a good place to start would be to check everyone for the dark mark... only death eaters have the dark mark.

and on that same subject, every body was all shocked that sirius was a death eater... did anyone bother to check for the dark mark? you would think someone who was bests pals with voldemort would have the stupid mark. this would have also been a good time to break out the veritaserum.

and in the fifth book harry sees moodys cloak and immediately recognizes a silvery invisibility cloak... but in the 7th book they say that harry's cloak is one of a kind and other invisibility cloaks are just normal cloaks with disillusionment or vanishing charms on them .... how does that make sense?
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#30 of 255 Old 06-22-2009, 02:16 PM
 
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Not knowing Voldemort had take up residence and the mad-eye wasn't really mad-eye:
Dumbledore is still only human. He said it himself that when he makes mistakes they tend to be bigger ones. And since voldemort hadn't returned yet, it can resonably be expected that no one would consider the need for the same level of security as they had after that.

Triwizard tournement. Likely Voldemort need time to perfect the spell that wormtail would be using to bring him back.

Dumbledore explained his reasons for wanting Harry kept in the dark. They weren't logical, but they were understandable. He didn't want Harry to have to deal with more the nessicary while still young, and it took some time before he realized that it wasn't really up to him.

As for the imperius and the dark mark... Checking won't proove anything. Severus had the dark mark and he was on Harry's side, alternatly Greyback was very much a supporter of Voldemort and didn't have one. So having a dark mark does not = being a voldemort supporter.

Harry's cloak... well it was also discussed in book 7 how the deathly hallows aren't really from death but simply items made by some very powerful wizards. So likely Moody's cloak is likely only different from Harry's in that the magic is not as lasting.

Rowling does a lot of the the things she does because of the human condition. In the real world, Dumbledore would make mistakes, people would change allegence, people would pretend to agree just to stay safe, some people will be held on a pedestal when they don't really deserve it and some people will be villified when they don't deserve it. IMO it would have been harder to really get into if everything in the books were black and white. i.e. Dumbledore is always right and always does what's right or everyone with the dark mark is a deatheater and everyone who doesn't is under the imperius curse.

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