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#1 of 28 Old 05-03-2010, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When i am reading books (or, less often, watching a movie) I begin to wonder things about the book/movie that don't really relate to the plot. Such as, while reading lord of the rings again, do elves have babies? If so, does it take a really long time for them to grow up and when do they stop aging? Or, in books based in the pre-formula age, how do people feed all these babies that they are adopting and finding on the roadside and such? Surely they can't all afford wet nurses. Share all your weird musings with me so i don't feel so weird!
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#2 of 28 Old 05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
 
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In the Xanth books, a character is born 5 years late. Okay, in that world, babies are formed in the world of dreams and then get delivered by the stork. But they get breast fed. So um, how did the storks (birds) feed the child until she arrived at 5 years old?

Unfortunately, most of the questions like that, "how did the baby survive?" "what happened while she was gone?" etc etc, are too sad making.
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#3 of 28 Old 05-03-2010, 11:42 PM
 
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This thread totally reminded me of Ramona Quimby.

In the book where she goes to Kindergarten, her teacher reads Mike Mulligan and His Steam Shovel to the class. Afterwords, she asks if anyone has a question. Ramona raises her hand and asks how, since the story said he worked all day without stopping, did Mike Mulligan go to the bathroom?

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#4 of 28 Old 05-03-2010, 11:59 PM
 
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In the Xanth books, a character is born 5 years late. Okay, in that world, babies are formed in the world of dreams and then get delivered by the stork. But they get breast fed. So um, how did the storks (birds) feed the child until she arrived at 5 years old?
I either don't remember or haven't read that one (I read a lot of Xanth, but did give them up eventually). Was the baby delivered as a baby five years late, or as a five year old?

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#5 of 28 Old 05-04-2010, 02:17 AM
 
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I do that for a living, more or less....
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#6 of 28 Old 05-05-2010, 03:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mommy212 View Post
When i am reading books (or, less often, watching a movie) I begin to wonder things about the book/movie that don't really relate to the plot. Such as, while reading lord of the rings again, do elves have babies? If so, does it take a really long time for them to grow up and when do they stop aging? Or, in books based in the pre-formula age, how do people feed all these babies that they are adopting and finding on the roadside and such? Surely they can't all afford wet nurses. Share all your weird musings with me so i don't feel so weird!


But, see, that is the mark of a good writer ... they've been so totally able to immerse you in their world that you feel the "reality" of it.

I love that.
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#7 of 28 Old 05-05-2010, 01:55 PM
 
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I either don't remember or haven't read that one (I read a lot of Xanth, but did give them up eventually). Was the baby delivered as a baby five years late, or as a five year old?
As a 5 year old.
It was Grundy and Rapunzel's daughter Surprise.
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#8 of 28 Old 05-05-2010, 04:25 PM
 
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Yes, I do that too.
I think when writing is really good you get drawn into their world you can’t help thinking about details like that.

This is also why in the past I could not get into some high fantasy. The characters just seem too unreal I just could not get into their story.
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#9 of 28 Old 05-05-2010, 09:44 PM
 
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As a 5 year old.
It was Grundy and Rapunzel's daughter Surprise.
Ah, okay - I haven't read that one. I think I gave up somewhere around "The Color of her Panties".

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#10 of 28 Old 05-05-2010, 10:42 PM
 
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For what it's worth, I do believe Elves have babies.

For instance Arwen was born 241 of the third age, and Aragorn is a decedent from Elves (in fact Elrond is a great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, ok dunno how many greats but there are a lot of them, uncle of Aragorn. So he an Arwen are technically cousins... I don't know how many times removed.)

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#11 of 28 Old 05-05-2010, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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For what it's worth, I do believe Elves have babies.

For instance Arwen was born 241 of the third age, and Aragorn is a decedent from Elves (in fact Elrond is a great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, ok dunno how many greats but there are a lot of them, uncle of Aragorn. So he an Arwen are technically cousins... I don't know how many times removed.)
nerd lol just messing SO does it just take a very long time for them to grow up then?
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#12 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 07:46 AM
 
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Dude, Tolkien totally covered that. You can look it up. The guy bothered to translate "Frodo" from "Froda" in the original Hobbit tongue and tell us about it; do you think he'd leave something like Elf procreation shrouded in mystery? Never!

It's been a while since I read his dogma on the subject, but I believe Elves' childhoods last for about 50 years, and Elf couples are only interested in sex for a relatively short time (maybe a couple of decades) before their minds move on to Higher Things, like gliding mysteriously around in trees thinking up rhymes for "glimmering". And obviously humans and Elves can, er, hybridize... hence Aragorn and Arwen, and Tuor and Idril, were able to have children.

If decomposition persists please see your necromancer.

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#13 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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is it in the info at the end of return of the king, or in the silmaril, or where? Would be curiious to read it
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#14 of 28 Old 05-07-2010, 02:51 AM
 
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I think it was in a letter to someone. I found the transcript online, so if you Google "Tolkien elf sex" you might find it... or.... other things....

If decomposition persists please see your necromancer.

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#15 of 28 Old 05-08-2010, 02:52 AM
 
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nerd lol just messing SO does it just take a very long time for them to grow up then?
I have no idea how long it takes them to grow up, but in LOTR Elrond is 6,600+ years old. I did the math, I even kept the notebook where I did the math, but I can't seem to find it right now.

Smokering you are braver then I if you have googled "Tolkien elf sex". Seriously.

ETA: One of Tolien's kids actually compiled all the information about the characters, locations etc from Tolkien's notes and whatnot in LOTR and published it. I have the book around somewhere too. It has time lines for all four ages. Though no date of birth for Legolas, which is what I really wanted to know. I do know he can't be more than 3141 years old when he leaves Middle Earth though.

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#16 of 28 Old 05-08-2010, 04:52 PM
 
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is it in the info at the end of return of the king, or in the silmaril, or where? Would be curiious to read it
Most of the creation/early history stuff is in the Silmarillion.

There is an online encyclopedia at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

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#17 of 28 Old 05-08-2010, 04:53 PM
 
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I have no idea how long it takes them to grow up, but in LOTR Elrond is 6,600+ years old. I did the math, I even kept the notebook where I did the math, but I can't seem to find it right now.

Smokering you are braver then I if you have googled "Tolkien elf sex". Seriously.

ETA: One of Tolien's kids actually compiled all the information about the characters, locations etc from Tolkien's notes and whatnot in LOTR and published it. I have the book around somewhere too. It has time lines for all four ages. Though no date of birth for Legolas, which is what I really wanted to know. I do know he can't be more than 3141 years old when he leaves Middle Earth though.
Christopher Tolkien was a part of the original books. He drew all the original maps, kept his father organized and such. He has published several books from Tolkien's notes. He was the first to read LotR from the trenches of WW2.

I am not googeling "Tolkien elf sex" Smokering is indeed very brave.


ETA: There is no indication of Legolas' age. That is discussed here if one doesn't want to dig to find it

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/l/legolas.html

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#18 of 28 Old 05-08-2010, 11:41 PM
 
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LOL! No, I didn't google it - it was one of those things one stumbles across at 1AM on the Internet after a long, vague surf through Wikipedia.

I believe it takes Elves 50 years to reach either adulthood or puberty, not sure which - so they are children for a comparatively long time.

I vaguely recall someone saying Legolas was 3000, but I don't have a reference for it.

I wonder how all this works with half-Elves. The half-Elven were allowed to choose between living a mortal or Elven life at some stage, presumably when they were adults, so how did the childhood thing work? Did they default to one or the other, or have an abnormally long (for a human) or short (for an Elf) childhood?

If decomposition persists please see your necromancer.

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#19 of 28 Old 05-08-2010, 11:48 PM
 
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This thread totally reminded me of Ramona Quimby.

In the book where she goes to Kindergarten, her teacher reads Mike Mulligan and His Steam Shovel to the class. Afterwords, she asks if anyone has a question. Ramona raises her hand and asks how, since the story said he worked all day without stopping, did Mike Mulligan go to the bathroom?
I was just thinking the same thing!

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#20 of 28 Old 05-09-2010, 10:44 AM
 
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I wonder how all this works with half-Elves. The half-Elven were allowed to choose between living a mortal or Elven life at some stage, presumably when they were adults, so how did the childhood thing work? Did they default to one or the other, or have an abnormally long (for a human) or short (for an Elf) childhood?
Half elves live a while even if they choose a mortal life.

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#21 of 28 Old 05-10-2010, 02:53 AM
 
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Yeah, I know; and even regular old humans lived longer than the current real-life human lifespan. But what I'm asking is, before the half-Elven chose to be mortal or immortal, how did their physiology work? Did they reach puberty/adulthood in 50 years like an Elf, or in 13-18ish years like a human? It seems like it'd make more sense for them to "default" to the Elf-lifespan, but I don't know if they actually did.

If decomposition persists please see your necromancer.

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#22 of 28 Old 05-10-2010, 03:14 PM
 
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Yeah, I know; and even regular old humans lived longer than the current real-life human lifespan. But what I'm asking is, before the half-Elven chose to be mortal or immortal, how did their physiology work? Did they reach puberty/adulthood in 50 years like an Elf, or in 13-18ish years like a human? It seems like it'd make more sense for them to "default" to the Elf-lifespan, but I don't know if they actually did.
Well when are they supposed to make that choice?

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#23 of 28 Old 05-10-2010, 06:44 PM
 
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I'm not sure. I don't know if they had a specific "choose by" date; but I recall some of them choosing in adulthood (Earendil and Elwing, was it?), so they must have had... some sort of childhood before then!

If decomposition persists please see your necromancer.

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#24 of 28 Old 05-12-2010, 02:37 AM
 
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Arwen chose a mortal life after the LOTR books, so well into adulthood by elf standards. I am guessing that it's not so much physiological as it is spiritual and emotional and they can make the choice at any time. One thing I think might be true is that the human partner has to die first before the elf starts going down hill. Maybe something similar that happens with the one ring?

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#25 of 28 Old 05-12-2010, 10:45 PM
 
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Arwen chose a mortal life after the LOTR books, so well into adulthood by elf standards. I am guessing that it's not so much physiological as it is spiritual and emotional and they can make the choice at any time.
But she still had to have had a childhood of SOME duration. Was it an Elf-length childhood, a human-length childhood or in between?

Also, just to be nitpicky, I believe she made that choice before the events of the War of the Ring. "I will cleave to you, Dunadan, and turn from the Twilight"... or whatever it was. Before they were married. I guess it's possible she aged like a human from then on - bearing in mind that humans had longer lifespans then too - but there may be a hint in the Appendices that she didn't age until Aragorn died, as you suggest. Something about how she became sad and grey after his death?

If decomposition persists please see your necromancer.

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#26 of 28 Old 05-14-2010, 01:09 AM
 
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Well Arwen was 2690 years old when Aragorn was born, so I am guessing she didn't chose a mortal life before that as she had no reason to.

(BTW: Arwen is Aragorns cousin 63 times removed.)

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#27 of 28 Old 05-14-2010, 02:58 PM
 
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Oh, and Peppa Pig.

Y'know how Daddy Pig frequently falls down or makes a hole in the wall and such? Dh was wondering what was up with that.

And I figured it out. Mommy Pig curses him. And sometimes Peppa, but she's not as good at cursing as Mommy Pig.

Want proof? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwlOCVb0VuY 3:45 Mommy Pig controls the weather!!
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#28 of 28 Old 05-15-2010, 11:43 PM
 
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Well Arwen was 2690 years old when Aragorn was born, so I am guessing she didn't chose a mortal life before that as she had no reason to.
Good point. So I guess their physiology defaults to Elf, and it's not so much choosing between Elf and human from a "neutral" physiology so much as opting out of Elfdom. So they would have the 50-year childhood thing. That makes sense. See, now I know!

Also, that's not a bad deal for the half-Elven. They could live for 4000, 5000 years and then decide to be mortal at the last minute if they didn't fancy going to Valinor. They had more options than their full-blooded kin! Not fair.

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