The 6th book in the Clan of The Cave Bear series by Auel *p3 sneak peak* (possible spoilers inside) - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 112 Old 04-27-2011, 12:37 PM
 
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I was planning on rereading the series this spring/summer but think I might put it off for a while. Possibly for years. I've been reading the spoilers too (and saw it's rated 2/5 on Amazon.ca) so I can't really say I'm eager to jump in. I'll get around to it someday. 


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#92 of 112 Old 04-27-2011, 12:45 PM
 
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I'll probably read it soon, but that has more to do with the fact that I'm a print addict than with the book itself. I'm beginning to think I'd like my own ending to Ayla's story better than the "official" one.


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#93 of 112 Old 04-27-2011, 12:46 PM
 
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I still haven't read the book, but if this was more stupid relationship nonsense, maybe Dreweeze and Danug seeing it again will teach them how they should address relationship conflicts?

 

I've read all the spoilers. I'm going to hate Jondalar even more than I already do, I think. I never liked him much, except in parts of VoH (mostly before he met Ayla, though), but I've really, really disliked him ever since PoP.


Danug lectured them in the last page or two of the book. Way too late.

 

Oh, you mean that it would teach Danug and Druwez to do better? Yeah, maybe. But that was still embarrassing.

 

You ARE going to hate Jondalar even more. I didn't even hate him that much before (yeah, he wasn't perfect but that was ok with me) but he really didn't come off like a prince in this one, shall we say.


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#94 of 112 Old 04-27-2011, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I like reading fan fiction and a lot of the stories they come up with are more appealing than what JA came up with. It feels like she left us hanging I dont mind an open ending to a certain extent but she really give no indication about what might be in their future. I honestly would have loved her to come close to writing up to the end of Ayla's life or at least half way through it would have been nice.

I am going to reread it again soon just to pick up things I missed but I am not chomping at the bit to do so lol.gif

 
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#95 of 112 Old 04-27-2011, 03:13 PM
 
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Danug lectured them in the last page or two of the book. Way too late.

 

Oh, you mean that it would teach Danug and Druwez to do better? Yeah, maybe. But that was still embarrassing.

 

Yeah - Danug and Druwez. (Thank you, btw - couldn't figure out who Dreweeze was, and thought I must have forgotten someone!)

 

You ARE going to hate Jondalar even more. I didn't even hate him that much before (yeah, he wasn't perfect but that was ok with me) but he really didn't come off like a prince in this one, shall we say.

 

I don't care about him not being perfect. But, he's always come across as really obsessive and kind of stalker-ish in his attitude toward Ayla. And, I hated the way his need to see his family came before Ayla's health and well-being and everything else in PoP. I mean...she went along with it, which also kind of bugged me, but his whole attitude just sent me over the edge. As far as I can tell, his "love" for Ayla boils down to "always be here so I can have sex with the most beautiful woman I've ever seen as often as I want".. It's putrid.

 



 


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#96 of 112 Old 04-27-2011, 03:16 PM
 
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Obsessive and stalkerish describes Jondalar pretty well. Maybe add pouty and self centered. 


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#97 of 112 Old 04-27-2011, 04:15 PM
 
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I still haven't read the book, but if this was more stupid relationship nonsense, maybe Dreweeze and Danug seeing it again will teach them how they should address relationship conflicts?

 

I've read all the spoilers. I'm going to hate Jondalar even more than I already do, I think. I never liked him much, except in parts of VoH (mostly before he met Ayla, though), but I've really, really disliked him ever since PoP.



I haven't read it yet, either, but have been reading all the spoilers as well.  I agree about Jondalar.  I want to like him, but to me, he comes across as really pompous and self-centered. Everything previous posters have said about what goes on in this new book have me going WTF? Ayla travels all that way with him to be with his people, and he cheats on her? Do I have that right?

 

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#98 of 112 Old 04-27-2011, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Jon and cheating. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
While she is busy with training to be Zelandonii which takes a LOT of her time Morona keeps Jon company irked.gif yep that is right after the crap Morona pulled on Ayla he is all to eager to share her furs again hammer.gif

I wouldnt have cared and I dont think Ayla would have cared that much had he shared pleasures with other woman after all that is part of their culture but Morona for crying out loud, really, really!?!?!?! and not only that but the whole cave knows it but no one tells Ayla.

I am still steaming over that one lol.gif

 
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#99 of 112 Old 04-28-2011, 01:01 AM
 
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Jon and cheating. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
 lol.gif



Not HER! Ugh!

 

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#100 of 112 Old 04-28-2011, 06:50 AM
 
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Of course I wanted to stab Jondalar for nailing Marona but I'm not complaining about it in terms of the quality of the story. (Of course, I'm not exactly convinced of the quality of the story anyway, but it's not because of this particular aspect of the plot, except how it relates to A&J's immature relationship - specifically communication - problem that we all hoped they had long since grown out of).

 

Marona is in fact the most plausible choice.

 

1) As some character (Zelandoni? I already forgot) explained, most women were aware that J wasn't shopping around, so they didn't offer. Marona had no such compunctions. Therefore Marona was one of the only ones that would have been flirting (probably heavily to say the least) with him during his weak moments.

2) Since they had been lovers before, she knew how to "operate" him, lol.

3) Zelandoni had said in SOS that Marona couldn't hurt Jondalar since he did not care for her. So it was easier for him to nail Marona than to possibly risk an emotional relationship with a new woman. And indeed Zelandoni was right; Jondalar shed zero tears for Marona and dumped her without a second thought (a little too late, of course).

4) And finally, who ELSE could Auel have chosen for his liason? There had to be some tension right? Otherwise where's the story? (Of course repeating the SAME DAMN TENSION was not the right answer). I just don't see how they could have gotten through the end of the series without some sort of relationship tension, and Ayla's dedication to her training just obviously leads to some sort of frustration from Jondalar, right? Would you have been happy if Jon was just the perfect man and Ayla just became Zelandoni without a single hitch? And of course this was all hinted in SOS, Ayla worried about it, and why did Marona exist at all if not to cause trouble?

 

I'm more disgusted with Ayla's choice when she cheated on Jon :)

 


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#101 of 112 Old 04-28-2011, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah the Laramar thing was gag inducing not only for Ayla but for me.

 
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#102 of 112 Old 04-29-2011, 09:25 AM
 
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Thank you for the spoilers! I think those things would have made want to throw the book across the room without some advance warning. And, Laramar? Really? *sigh*

 

I can kind of handle it with her, just because I'm sure her character would always have some culturally induced baggage on that topic, but, yeah - I'm going to really hate Jondalar by the time all's said and done. I remember the girl who introduced me to Clan of the Cave Bear in high school just swooning over Jondalar's character, and he's just never done anything for me at all. As much as I love the book for many other reasons, Jondalar and Ayla are one of my least favourite fictional couples (although I think I like them better than Will & Elizabeth from Pirates of the Caribbean).


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#103 of 112 Old 04-29-2011, 09:51 AM
 
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I can kind of handle it with her, just because I'm sure her character would always have some culturally induced baggage on that topic


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

This one wasn't cultural baggage. It wasn't like Ranec at all. Ayla cheated on Jonadalar out of pure spite, and even the man she chose to cheat on him with was selected out of spite. She wasn't even attracted to him, in fact as disgusted as we readers are. There was no issue of her having problems turning down a man's advances, she specifically set out to do this.

 

That's why I was saying Yuck!

 


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#104 of 112 Old 04-29-2011, 09:56 AM
 
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yeah - definitely "yuck" - not uncommon, but still...yuck.

 

I haven't even read it, yet and I'm starting to wish Auel had left things at SoS. I don't expect people to be perfect (especially Jondalar), but there's a big difference, imo, between not being perfect and the kind of thing I'm hearing here! Plus, one would hope that a relationship that had weathered everything their's has (cultural problems, miscommunication, separation from friends/family, long voyage, life threatening "adventures', etc. etc. etc.) could handle these issues with a little more...class. Ouch.


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#105 of 112 Old 04-29-2011, 11:06 AM
 
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Yeah the Laramar thing was gag inducing not only for Ayla but for me.

I agree.. it was completely out of character for Ayla to do that. No way should Auel have written it that way.
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#106 of 112 Old 04-29-2011, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It was out of character for her for sure but after what she had just been through and having drank that stuff she wasnt really herself any more really, it didnt fit with her usual way of reacting to things to be so spiteful. It still dosnt change how repulsive I found that scene.

 
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#107 of 112 Old 05-01-2011, 11:42 AM
 
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Just finished it.  Where to begin?  

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 I was super annoyed by the repeat of not only the love triangle crap from the 3rd book but also the repeat of the taking of the dangerous drug that almost kills her!  

 

I was absolutely disgusted by both Jon's and Ayla's choices of who to cheat on each other with.

 

But as annoyed as I was with the repeat of the frustrating crap from the 3rd book, that's nothing to how disturbed I was by:

 

*Ayla's lack of connection to Jonayla.  I loved all the AP practices that were mentioned, such as sustained breastfeeding, babywearing, elimination communication, bedsharing, etc (all of them only to be expected in the ice age of course) but by the end of the book it's apparent that there's an upsetting lack of emotional attachment.

 

But, especially, how disturbed I was by:

 

*The divulging of the science of conception leading to the transition from matriarchy to patriarchy leading to the eventual destruction of the environment and healthy human culture.  I have long felt very isolated in my strong belief in matriarchy and mother's rights in modern society, and these books, until now, had been a sort of refuge for me.  Now, even though there's still no way for the group to know precisely who the father of a child is, they're going to start giving men the newly invented title of "father" and giving them the right to name the male children??  Even though these titles and rights are only being invented because of the discovery of the concept of the biological father, they are going to be given to the current man of the hearth, even if he isn't the biological father?  Why?  What is the point of THAT?  If a woman is unmated, has no man at her hearth, and doesn't know who the father of her child is, who gets to name her son?  The whole thing makes me sick.  We're going to go from honoring women for bringing forth life to taking away their right to even name their own child?  When she's the one who grows the child in her body, carries it, labors with it, births it, and breastfeeds it, and there's no way to even know who the father IS??  The Others are supposed to be the refreshing alternative to the sexism of the Clan.  In the Clan, women's rights are not honored and mothers don't even have the right to name their own child.  Zelandoni/Zolena, never having directly, personally experienced the mother-child bond herself, takes it upon herself to zealously usher in a new age of travesty that the women of the world have suffered under ever since.  At the next day's meeting, is she going to announce that it's time to start worshiping the Great Mother's lover? WTH?

 

 

 


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#108 of 112 Old 05-01-2011, 11:51 AM
 
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Sustainer: That all sounds depressing, but I've been expecting something like that for the last 2-3 books. It seemed to be the way Auel was heading.


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#109 of 112 Old 05-15-2011, 07:53 AM
 
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ok, i finished.  weirdly paced... the last third was the most interesting part, the beginning did drag a bit.  just when it started to get rolling it was over. 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

the tea thing... i dont buy that ayla would accidently drink the tea just because it smelled like mint.  she regularly used strong smelling herbs to identify less pungent drugs in her medicine bag and she has a superhuman memory. 

jondalar is an ass. 

and really, that is what it comes down to?  the revelation that penises are important too?!  i would have been happier to see ayla with a hearth full of children living happily ever after or even becoming first, i dont think that the mother's final gift or whatever is interesting/important enough to be the one story that wraps the whole thing up... i would have been satisfied without all that.  but its auel's story so she can do what she pleases with it.  ill even read it again, and i liked it miles better that shelters of stone. 

ok, now im off to read game of thrones. 

 

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#110 of 112 Old 05-15-2011, 07:55 AM
 
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oh, and i hate zelandoni even more now.  bossy old bossypantsirked.gif

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#111 of 112 Old 05-15-2011, 11:00 AM
 
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oh, and i hate zelandoni even more now.  bossy old bossypantsirked.gif

 

 

And not even as smart as she was in Shelters.  She was so eager to 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

try out that dangerous drug and kept bringing it up and asking Ayla about it, and every time she did Ayla tried to give her the impression that it's very dangerous and they probably shouldn't use it, and Zelandoni's response would always be along the lines of, "so how is it prepared then?  When can we have the ceremony? Chanting might help?  So we should have chanting..."  Then after they use it and Ayla almost dies again, Zelandoni said "Mamut warned her against using it again?  Why didn't she tell me?"  I wanted to scream!!  I could have sworn that Ayla had used those exact words.  I went back in the book looking for it.  I mean Ayla really did try to convey to her that it was too dangerous, and Zelandoni just kept brushing off her concerns and persisting in wanting to use it.  

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Mamut also seemed to me to have misplaced his wisdom on the day he decided to do the same thing.  The healers are supposed to have the sense not to use a significant quantity of a drug they know nothing about, with no one present who knows how to control it, especially after Ayla's warnings! How many times does she have to almost die, and tell people about it, before they stop trying to get her to use it??

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Couldn't Auel have come up with some other climax, rather than repeating the folly of the third book?  Especially since this was essentially the climax of the entire series?

 

 


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#112 of 112 Old 05-15-2011, 01:27 PM
 
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I couldn't even finish it.

 

And the continuous descriptions of the cave paintings made my eyes feel like they were going to start bleeding after awhile.

 

I loved all the other books in the series. 

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