"Princess Boy" and letting our children be proud of who they are - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 46 Old 01-05-2011, 09:32 PM
A&A
 
A&A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by oaktreemama View Post

 

Quote:
 Dad wanted attention, and his son was the perfect person to get it for him.

 

Much better stated. I just think she is using her son to "prove" something. To me it is much different than using a picture of your daughter to sell your handmade slings. The focus doesn't seem to be so much of a look how awesome my son is, but rather a look how awesome WE are as parents. Like they deserve all this recognition for not making fun of their kid who wears a tutu.

 

And that is where she loses me.


Agreed.

 

 

In general, we live in such a narcissistic age.  YouTube.........Facebook.........Twitter.......blogs.........even message boards..........all tend to blur the line between what we should and should not be sharing with others. 

 

 


"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
A&A is online now  
#32 of 46 Old 01-05-2011, 09:34 PM
A&A
 
A&A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post

I don't know, a LOT of books and concepts (Free Range Kids, ect.) DO start out as "Hey, look at my cool kid.  It's because I am an awesome parent, look at how cool it is that I am parenting with this awesomey awesomesauce and doesn't it suck to be you out there in nonenlightenedland."  :)  Perhaps not that crass, but...

 

Even if I do agree with the concept, it is a little eyerollery, no matter who is doing it.  Just saying, this mama is not the first (nor the worst, in my opinion) offender about strutting her Awesomey McAwesomesauce for the world to see, pointing to her kid as proof of it.

 

I

 

 

LOL!  I love the "Awesomey McAwesomesauce."  If that doesn't sum up Facebook, I don't know what does.

 


 


"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
A&A is online now  
#33 of 46 Old 01-06-2011, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
Dr.Worm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

I'm not seeing how this is using her son to make money. Does the book mention her son by name? Does it specifically identify the child in question as the authors child? Or is it just a book about a boy that likes princess things and dressing up like a princess? And why is it "using your child" when the topic of the book is something that goes against societal norms?

 

And where are all these parents living where a boy who loves "girl stuff" is going to be widely accepted by society as a whole? I'm really curious, I live in a part of a very liberal country that is often considered too liberal and we still get plenty of people who think they need to tell us and our son that dresses and pink are for girls. To be honest it does sound like there are people in this thread who are uncomfortable with the subject of the book and trying to find other reasons to dislike it.


Thanks MusicianDad.  I was starting to get a little sad lol.  Nope...the book doesn't mention his name and in fact, the people have no faces.  And I would also like to know where all these enlightened people live too.  As far as I have seen girls are allowed to like "boy things" but if a boy likes "girl things" he must be (gasp) turning gay.
 

Dr.Worm is offline  
#34 of 46 Old 01-06-2011, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
Dr.Worm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Exactly Chamomile Girl!  I don't live in an area where this is considered not a big deal.  I don't think it is but a lot of people still think boys can only act tough at all times.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by lach View Post



Quote:
 

This is a very young child who 1) is not actually bucking any societal expectations (is there ANYONE on this thread who thinks it's weird for a preschool boy to play dress up in a girl's dress?) and 2) did not consent in any way to be the poster child for bucking societal expectations.  He's being sold (literally) as something that he's not, in a way that could have real social repercussions for him down the road, and without his consent.

 

If, in 15 years, he and his parents want to co-write this exact book, I would applaud it.  But as it is, it's a selfish ploy on the part of his parents to make some money and gain some infamy.


I don't think that the folks who frequent MDC are a very good sample population to determine the social acceptability of prepubescent cross dressing.  I know my family would FREAK OUT if they saw my 18mo old son in a dress.  Because I was raised in such a restrictive gender-norm society, gender roles are my activist cause and my hill to die on.  I would totally use my son to get that message across, you had better believe it!  In fact I do in a way as I now make most of his clothes.  He is my little gender-neutral billboard.

 

Would I see it as a ploy to gain personal infamy if I wrote a book about my princess-loving son?  No way.  I would see it as my attempt to further normalize his behavior.  So its not that the parents are saying "Hey, our son likes dresses because he is a freak".  No, they are saying "Boys (like our son) can like dresses and that is OK.  I really don't see the issue here.

 

I applaud them.



Dr.Worm is offline  
#35 of 46 Old 01-06-2011, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
Dr.Worm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm not saying the "who the child is" thing like that though.  This child may not like dressing up in a month or he might decide he wants to do it his whole life.  My point is they should be supported on their journey and accepted.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Lily View Post

I didn't watch the clip, but I saw photos and I notice this family is African American, I ve to wonder if culture is playing into this. Perhaps in some social circles, even conservative ones, this kind of dress up play is ok, but it's seen as more taboo in other cultures? I just mention it because I know there are a lot of African Americans who have very strict views on homosexuality and could see this as a real issue, related to that.

I think it's great that the book exists, but I don't like this being about "who the child is." They are a CHILD, that's all, and while some may be transgendered and are beginning to realize that, the majority of boys dressing up as ballerinas/fairies/princesses are not. So it shouldn't be turned into something it's not.


Dr.Worm is offline  
#36 of 46 Old 01-06-2011, 08:15 AM
 
queenjane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

The book looks fine to me...i was uncomfortable watching the one interview i read though, because number one, the child seemed to be clearly labelled as "a princess boy" (indeed it almost seemed like the mom wanted to coin this new term), and number two, the child looked uncomfortable and miserable. They said it was because he wasnt feeling well...well in that case perhaps they should not have had him on the air. (I get the pressure the parents must have faced "but we have to SEE the princess boy!!!" but still...stand up for your kid!)...then again maybe the boy begged to be allowed on air...sure didnt seem that way though. The interviewer had to drag answers out of him, and it really need almost look like they slapped "princess clothes" on the kid, it didnt look like some cool outfit he put together himself (IMO, which i fully admit could be wrong.)

 

Also...another thing that kind of hurt my feelings for the boy...is they went into great detail during the talk show about the lengths everyone went to to make sure the boy was not teased when dressing up at school...got the teachers and other parents involved blah blah. Thats great. But wouldnt it have been better for all that to happen behind the scenes, for the child to just feel that everyone really liked his outfit, that it was no big deal, rather than "what i wear is so strange and disturbing and different that my mom had to get my teachers on board to make sure no one was mean"...but thats essentially what they said, right in front of the kid. Maybe an 8-12 yr old should know that, but a preschool or Kindy kid? Not so much.

 

So, i think the book is fine and considered getting it, but the marketing campaign, not so much.

 

 


Katherine, single homeschooling mom to Boy Genius (17) geek.gif  Thing One (6) and Thing Two (6) fencing.gif and one outgoing Girl (12) bikenew.gif and hoping for more through foster care and adoption homebirth.jpgadoptionheart-1.gif 
queenjane is offline  
#37 of 46 Old 01-06-2011, 08:29 AM
 
The4OfUs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 5,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

queenjane, ITA with your whole post.  My issue is NOT with whether or not any given little boy likes to wear princess clothes.  My issue is with how the promotion is being handled.  The book even, MusicianDad made a good point about it and I can see how the book in and of itself could be valuable for people who say, live in an area like mine  I will point out that I live in a place where I have never seen a little boy in a tutu or princess dress, or even overtly "girly" out in public.  But the marketing of it, and the above that queenjane mentioned about making it such a big deal *in front of him* just rubs me the wrong way.  Maybe I just don't believe little kids should be involved in, or made poster children for, activism.  I think parents should advocate for their kids without putting the spotlight on them...especially little kids.   


Heather, WAHM to DS (01/04)DD (06/06). Wed to DH(09/97)
The4OfUs is offline  
#38 of 46 Old 01-06-2011, 08:35 AM
 
Chamomile Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West of the Sierras East of the Sea
Posts: 2,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post

 

Also...another thing that kind of hurt my feelings for the boy...is they went into great detail during the talk show about the lengths everyone went to to make sure the boy was not teased when dressing up at school...got the teachers and other parents involved blah blah. Thats great. But wouldnt it have been better for all that to happen behind the scenes, for the child to just feel that everyone really liked his outfit, that it was no big deal, rather than "what i wear is so strange and disturbing and different that my mom had to get my teachers on board to make sure no one was mean"...but thats essentially what they said, right in front of the kid. Maybe an 8-12 yr old should know that, but a preschool or Kindy kid? Not so much.

 



That is a very good point.

Chamomile Girl is offline  
#39 of 46 Old 01-06-2011, 01:21 PM
ssh
 
ssh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I don't think putting a young child on a talk show is appropriate. I feel it violates their right to privacy. My older DD, age 24, went through a period where she didn't want people looking at her baby pictures. I can't imagine how she would felt about a televised interview floating around the internet.  Writing a book is fine. My younger DD, age 5, has gone through so many different pretend phases that labeling her as just one of them would be stifling. She's like being a super hero, with cape of course, an evil villain, a princess, a dragon, a dragon king, a mommy, and various animals. Me, as a parent, choosing one pretend persona  and labeling her just that is almost as bad as telling she can't pretend whatever she wants. 

ssh is offline  
#40 of 46 Old 01-06-2011, 01:46 PM
 
Spring Lily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Worm View Post

I'm not saying the "who the child is" thing like that though.  This child may not like dressing up in a month or he might decide he wants to do it his whole life.  My point is they should be supported on their journey and accepted.

I wasn't quoting you, I was quoting the parents' own words. If you look at their website, you'll see they say that.

I think there's a big difference at this age between what kids play and who they are, and it worries me to have kids be pigeon-holed as one thing or another. I love the concept of having a book where little boys see other little boys dressed up as fairies or princesses or whatever, but I don't see the need to label it as who the boy is.

I can't get too worked up though about a message of acceptance. I would just have altered that language a bit if I were the parents. And I wouldn't be bringing my son onto the TV interviews.

Spring Lily is offline  
#41 of 46 Old 01-16-2011, 08:48 AM
 
Lenisa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Okay, my question is...Where is the guidance??? So little Joe wants to were pink...My 16 year old daughter wants to dress like a street walker...I put my foot down...It is my job to protect my child and to guide them...My 16 year old may very well like to dress in skirts that leave nothing to the imagination but I, as her mother, can and should disuade her from doing so...I also, having the purse strings, won't buy such outfits for her...

 

So if little Joe likes pink girlie clothing, so be, but I, as his mother, Number ONE, will not buy such clothing for my SON, and number two will try to find other clothing that he can and will wear until he is 18 and out of my house...OMG!!!    If kids could raise themselves properly OUR jobs as parents would be as easy as we would LIKE them to be...But sometimes WE as adults have to make choices for our kids....

Lenisa is offline  
#42 of 46 Old 01-18-2011, 11:59 AM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 27,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I don't see a boy wearing a dress or pink or whatever as having anything to do with raising a child "properly". DS2 has been out in public once or twice in dresses (ds1 never was, but I don't buy much of my children's clothing, and we didn't even have any dresses when he was little - I'm pretty sure he'd have worn them). That doesn't mean he's being improperly parented, and he's absolutely receiving guidance. He's receiving guidance to let him know that some people have irrational objections to boys in dresses, and then he can act accordingly. Much like ds1 when he had very long hair as a child, ds2 chooses to wear what he wants to wear and not pay any attention to other people's issues.

 

It makes me sad that is considered an "OMG" issue. Even aside from people who are truly trans, little kids like to play dress-up. There's no difference between ds2 putting on dd1's Belle dress, and dd1 coming downstairs wearing dress up clothes that include a hat and belt and carrying a long strap and telling me that she's Indiana Jones.


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
#43 of 46 Old 01-19-2011, 09:55 AM
 
queenjane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

Something i was thinking about the other day, is that i think its a fine line between embracing/celebrating your child's differences and sort of labelling/pidgeonholing them this one thing. I know with my son (who is almost three) he really likes sparkly bright things...he's kind of into fashion, if you will. He loves accessories, belts hats etc. Unfortunately for him, its difficult to find snazzy boys clothes ESP shoes...all the boys shoes at the store were dark blue or brown, but he wanted sparkles. Why do sparkles have to just be for girls??

 

But i had to watch myself, because i found myself giving him the pink or purple sippy cup and giving the red or blue one to his same-age brother. Or picking out things i thought he'd like, that were more jazzy, then letting him just decide. So i decided not to do that. I give his brother the "girl color" cups just as often (sometimes more often)...and i've found its not really "girl things" he likes, he just likes what he likes. His new favorite things are his buzz lightyear rain boots because toy story is his current obsession. He wears a very specific pair of jeans every single day, and sleeps in them (I have 12 pair, LOL)...they are girls size 4t, flared bottoms, and have these little buttons on the side with a bit of pink thread. He just likes how they fit and how they cover his feet since they are a size too big. Why does this make them "girls jeans"?

 

To Lenisa...not sure what your deal is...but there is a difference in encourage modesty (not letting your child leave the house looking like a 'streetwalker'), and demanding gender specific clothing. I dont go out of my way to buy "girls clothes" for my son, but if he were to really fall in love with an outfit, sure why not? Where's the harm? Conforming to societal norms is not really something we value in our family, certainly not when it comes to gender stereotypes.

 

Does your daughter wear pants? Didnt that used to be "boys only"?? Why is that ok?

 

 


Katherine, single homeschooling mom to Boy Genius (17) geek.gif  Thing One (6) and Thing Two (6) fencing.gif and one outgoing Girl (12) bikenew.gif and hoping for more through foster care and adoption homebirth.jpgadoptionheart-1.gif 
queenjane is offline  
#44 of 46 Old 01-19-2011, 10:25 AM
 
limette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,452
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't know. I get why there is a need to present these ideas to the public but at the same time I don't get why it's needs to be made such a fuss. Doesn't make sense I know.

My daughters came first. As predicted they received a ton of pink clothes. When I purchased clothes for them (before they could pick them out but after the baby stage) I went for the boys stuff because I buy used and the boys department is less dated. So they have a good mix. My son is currently wearing all the baby girl stuff (pink). When he's a toddler he'll get the older stuff (most of which is red, green and neutrals) and when he gets old enough to pick his clothes out he can wear whatever he wants. I make no issue of it. I don't make gender statements about stuff because very few things are truly gender specific. My girls play with barbies, hot wheels and iron man toys while wearing dresses and rolling around in the mud. All three of them have their own baby doll. They play with and wear what they like.

The most annoying thing about the gender issue is that it's okay for women/girls to do traditionally masculine things but it's not okay the other way around. For a man, being called feminine is an insult. As a woman I find that infuriating. Enforcing that just continues to make men the superior gender when we should all be treated equally.

limette is offline  
#45 of 46 Old 01-19-2011, 01:27 PM
 
WorldsBestMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

 I can understand if  the little boy seems to be displaying feminine behavior. What can you do as  a mother but to love your child. However I am definitely not going to buy a book to give to my little boy to read about a little boy, who wants to be a princess or  seems to be extremely fascinated with girlie suff. As far as I am concern, a Princess is a girl and a Prince is a boy. What confusion  would that be to show my little boy this book and say look, "here is a little boy who wants to be a princess". No Way. At the end of the day,  what we can do is  sensitize our kids that there are some kids who are  of the same gender  who may not act the same as they do but they should be treated with respect. No need to be rubbing a boy princess in to the psyche of our children. He is not the first boy to be fascinated with girlie stuff. How about a book that teaches children how to treat and repect other kids of the same gender who may act different. As we know kids will tease other kids when they don't understand a certain situation.

 

Not because a girl can wear pants that means it is ok for a boy to wear a dress. To prove what really? When he gets older and is living on his own he can wear a dress or a tutu if  he so please. Hey he can wear  it to College or work if he chooses too. Even better if his girlfriend or his boyfriend is okay with it.  As a matter of fact how many of us would date a man who came to us wearing a dress because his parents raised him to be comfortable in it because that is what he only wanted to wear when he was little.

 

Kids will be Kids, they will be curious and dress up and all that,and some may have their preferences and its obvious they are going through a stage/Phase but as parents we should teach them what is appropiate and what is not. If they still want to do what they feel comfortable with and live a certain lifestyle,  especially when they reach teenage years then we have to allow them and let them make their own decisions. We did our best, what more can we do, than love them.

 

Interestingly in the future if Princess Boy should start acting like a Prince when he reaches teenage years and see those pcitures of him posted all over high school or posted on the internet he would just be mortified. So again we have to becareful as parents and thats my OPINION.


Worlds Best Mom
WorldsBestMom is offline  
#46 of 46 Old 01-19-2011, 08:42 PM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 27,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldsBestMom View Post

What confusion  would that be to show my little boy this book and say look, "here is a little boy who wants to be a princess". No Way.

 

I'm not sure why there'd be any confusion, or what it is you're getting at. It's not hard to explain that such-and-such little boy likes princess clothes, and it's also not hard to explain that a princess is, by definition, a girl.

 

 

Not because a girl can wear pants that means it is ok for a boy to wear a dress. To prove what really?

 

Why does it have to be to "prove" anything? Most (I'm tempted to say all) of what my kids wear is about appropriateness for the weather/circumstances and about their personal preference. DS2 isn't "proving" anything when he wears sweatpants and a shirt with a jeep on the front, and he's also not "proving" anything when he wears his sister's princess dress (or when the two of them switch clothes and respond to each other's name for an hour or so).

 

I also don't see what the "because a girl can wear pants" thing is about. Girls didn't use to be "allowed" to wear pants. It was frowned on, and completely inappropriate. In my own lifetime, I've had a friend's grandmother call me a hussy and a slut, because I was wearing jeans with heels (1.5" pumps - nothing sexy, believe me). If some people hadn't let their girls wear them, anyway, then it would still be wildly inappropriate for a girl to wear pants. These gender rules about clothing are very, very arbitrary, after all.

 

As a matter of fact how many of us would date a man who came to us wearing a dress because his parents raised him to be comfortable in it because that is what he only wanted to wear when he was little.

 

I have no idea. I've only ever met one man who publicly wore dresses, and I don't know him well. I wouldn't date him, but not because of the dresses (it's because he gives every impression of being a major adrenalin junkie and that's just not my style). Whether or not I'd date a guy who came to me wearing a dress would depend on a huge number of factors. Of course...whether or not I'd date a guy who came to me wearning pants would depend on a huge number of factors, too.

 

Kids will be Kids, they will be curious and dress up and all that,and some may have their preferences and its obvious they are going through a stage/Phase but as parents we should teach them what is appropiate and what is not. If they still want to do what they feel comfortable with and live a certain lifestyle,  especially when they reach teenage years then we have to allow them and let them make their own decisions. We did our best, what more can we do, than love them.

 

I guess I don't see what being appropriate or going through a stage/phase has to do with a little boy wearing a dress (or lace, or sparkles, or whatever). Mind you, I let dd1 go out in all kinds of bizarre getups when she was younger (still would, but she doesn't do it, anymore). I can't imagine myself caring about the opinion of people who would care about that, yk?

 

Interestingly in the future if Princess Boy should start acting like a Prince when he reaches teenage years and see those pcitures of him posted all over high school or posted on the internet he would just be mortified. So again we have to becareful as parents and thats my OPINION.


This, I actually agree with. I think sticking a child publicly with an identity that is only one small part of who they are, when they're still very young, is a really, really bad idea. And, yes - it could definitely bounce back on the child.




Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off