A Dance with Dragons (George RR Martin) SPOILERS!! - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 3 Old 07-25-2011, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So -- has anyone else finished it yet?  If I'd had my druthers I'd have finished it the day it arrived but we have had company and all sorts of upheaval, so I've been eking along at 3-5 chapters/day and finally finished it today. 

Warning:  I hope that there are bunches of spoilers here - so Game of Thrones fans who found the series via HBO but who have not read all the books yet, should NOT read here.  Or at least, should not click any spoiler tags.  I know spoiler tags are tempting, but with Martin's books, spoilers are really truly spoilers!! 

Dying to hear what people think. 
 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

NOTHING with Sansa or Lytlefinger.  Also nothing with Samwell.  Hmmm?  Also so very little with Catelyn etc. - other than the Maid of Tarth showing up and Jaime leaving with her.  What is going on with that?  I was certain she wasn't dead and had been spared - but what is the plan?  Catelyn is not going to forgive Jaime no matter what Brienne says. 


Also: 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I am positive that Jon is not dead.  He'll survive.  He must - the foreshadowing is pretty obvious that he's "Azor Ahai" and I'm quite certain he'll be riding one of the dragons in the end. 


And:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

What is going to happen with Arya?  I've thought for ages that she would be the third dragon rider.  But she seems to sink further and further into the webs she's in, and I'm not sure how she'd ever get back out.  Also, if she isn't the third dragon rider - who IS?  Aegon?  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Martin might have thrown another major character in this far into the series - but we know so little of Aegon's thoughts, he's not written as a main character yet.  But that would be the three that Rhaegar seemed to know he needed..... 

And:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

The EPILOGUE!  So - what is the game that Viserys and Illyrio are playing?  Who do they really support - Daenerys, Aegon, do they plan to unite the two in the end or were they hedging their bets by having two options?  And do they really want the good ruler Viserys is describing, or are they working for the malevolence that motivates the Others? 

 

And:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I don't think the Bastard beat Stannis.  I think he made that part up.  He may have Mance and his six spear-wives as he says, but I don't think he's found Stannis and I don't think that's over.  They left the castle, after all.  And Melisandre would have seen it in her fires, no? 

 

 

 


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#2 of 3 Old 07-25-2011, 10:14 PM
 
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This whole post is spoilerific.

 

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You mean Varys, right, not Vyserion?  I think he's telling the truth about working for the return of Prince Aegon.

 

I also don't think Jon is fully dead but I think he may have to spend the rest of the series as a direwolf.  And I think Stannis is toast, or nicely flayed, or whatever.  The question is, where are Jeyne and Theon?  And will Bran-the-Tree figure out how to be an actor instead of merely an observer? 

 

The reason that there was nothing from Catelyn, Sansa, Petyr, or a couple others (where the hell is Rickon???) in book 5 was that book 5 occurs mostly concurrently with book 4 - Martin originally wrote all those stories as one book and realized it was way, way too long so he split it into 2.  Except for the very end, both books describe the same time period.  In the next book, which is coming out in a few years (argh) he'll stop introducing new points of view, and some plotlines will start dovetailing.  He already ended the Prince Quentyn plotline (awesomely) and my guess is that extraneous people will continue to be disposed of in new and entertaining ways until it comes down to dragons vs. trees & Others vs. R'hllorites. 

 

I agree that Aegon is going to end up on one of the dragons, but the third?  Hard to say.  Maybe Danaerys will pop out a kid after all.  Maybe it will be Missandei?  I really like her, but I fear she's headed in the direction of other likeable but disposable characters.

 


Ooo!  Maybe Danaerys and Aegon will have a kid, just like in the old days.  Seers and whatnot don't have a super-awesome track record in this series so maybe the maegi was wrong.

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#3 of 3 Old 07-26-2011, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ah, yes, I meant Varys. 
 

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Yes, I'd read an interview with Martin where he said that most of this book was contemporary with A Feast for Crows.  But the interview had made it sound like pretty much everyone would be featured in this book by the time it ended .....

 

I think

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Bran-the-tree already spoke - to Theon.  I think Theon had cracked so much he was more able to hear Bran (remember, Nedd 'heard' something while in the godswood, too, when Bran was first trying). 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

In terms of dragon riders - we know Jon is Rhaegar's son (the third he spoke of, one assumes).... I can't make myself believe that Martin would have laid the "Azor Ahai" stuff so thick with Jon (with him being the vision the flames showed when asked for Azor Ahai), at this point in the series, unless Jon is that being.  And several times the mention "Born of Ice and Snow."  Also, I don't think Jon has  willingly worked on his shape-shifting with Ghost to the extent that he'd naturally just shift to Ghost.  I wonder whether someone had detained Ghost, or whether Ghost/other brothers come to Jon's aid (heck, Wildings could have come to his aid too). 

It's probably because I like Jon so much - but I wonder whether in the next book, we'll have him recuperating in an ice cell (or under the aid of the Red Witch).  The chaos his death/shift to Ghost would unleash on the Night's Watch (and the Wildings) seem an interesting plot twist, but I am hoping that's not where this is going.....

 

 


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