aaah i stand corrected then.
yes he did die of a heart attack. after climbing 8 flights of stairs he suddenly dropped dead from a heart attack. his partner also said she suspects no foul play... but i am not convinced.
yes catscradle you are right about the culture of violence. i connected with a fellow student last summer. she had been homeless and while homeless her 'boyfriend' locked her up in his garage for a week and gang raped her for a whole month - with no one catching on, and later the police ignoring her coz she was homeless. there are many things she cant do. amongst them one is going to the table full of food at a class potluck and getting a plate with all the other students there. to her - her culture of violence is so different from mine.
I so appreciate the dialogue that's been happening on this thread. I am feeling better now, less traumatized from that scene. I think distance has helped. And I do think that, even though I tend to not be as visual of a person, images in movies have the power to really get stuck in my brain and disturb me for a very long time, though I can never know before hand which ones will. Kill Bill didn't bother me at all. It all felt very fake and I saw it all as art and entertainment and I actually liked the Kill Bill movies. There are some I wish I could erase from my brain though.
I am coming from the perspective of a writer who has written rape scenes. And they were not for entertainment at all. I am always much more critical when it's coming from a man's perspective, whether in writing or film, because of our sexist culture and how deeply it's engrained (which can of course come through in a woman's work too). I am still taking in everyone's perspective's on this and yes, I do think you get into some seriously grey area when you start combining artist with art. Not that they can be separated, but I think too many people make the mistake of combining fiction with authors' own experiences and opinions and voice.
I guess I do have concerns about adding to twisted individuals' porn collections, meaning this is porn for some sick individuals. I know they can find it elsewhere, but I'm also mindful when I'm writing that I never create anything that could be enjoyed as porn for pedophiles and rapists. Am I making any sense?
This is a really important thread, I think.
When I read the "Initiation" chapter where one of the girls is gang raped until her will to fight her slavery is destroyed, I had to ask him, "Did the women you interview go into this kind of detail? Did they really want you to tell us this?" His response: they insisted. More than one survivor kept saying that if everyone only knew what the traffickers did to them then people wouldn't let it happen again.
The story was truly traumatic to read. Several times I asked myself, "Is it really necessary to read this?" Even after having read it, I still sometimes ask myself that question, but that is only because it hurt so much to go through. The fact is, I think the survivors were right. If everyone did subject themselves to what is only a glimpse of that hell, then we would we all be far more inclined to do something about it. Those of us with consciences anyway.
Reactions? I am very interested to know what you think as I am working on my own novel in a similar vein.
The curb-biting scene in American History X is SO hard to watch, but, like you said it wouldn't be the same without it.
ure, rape can be implied, but it's not the same thing in terms of storytelling. Imagine Tess of the D'Urbervilles with an explicit rape scene, or the curb-biting scene in American History X if that had been delicately implied offscreen. They would have been totally different stories.
Single mama to DS8 and DD4. Feminist. Queer. Atheist. Poly. Full-time poli sci and econ student.
To the OP:
I often wonder about the actresses who play such scenes. It is my understanding that Stanley Kubrick had problems getting a woman to play in the attempted gang bang scene in A Clockwork Orange that took place in the abandoned theatre early in the film. She was naked and being grabbed by all of the gang. Very disturbing scene; it deserved the X rating it got when it first came out.
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~ George Orwell