Any other Gabaldon fans want to talk about Claire and Jamie? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-11-2005, 07:23 PM
 
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:LOL It's been a looong time and I read them one after the other FAST. hehe

I think I'm going to buy the series for my SIL for Christmas...maybe I can do a quick read w/o it being too apparent to her.

I think my most vivid images are of Culloden and their arrival in America.
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:11 AM
 
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Well, I'm just discovering this whole book forum here on MDC & I'm thrilled to discover this thread! (and the HP thread & I'm off to search for Jean Auel addicts next! )

Meanwhile, I just wanted to comment on this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollycrand
Ickrause,

The gravestone that Brianna, Roger and Claire stumbled upon in the late 1960s was the fake gravestone that had been put there by Frank. There's some idea that Frank had put it there to stop Claire from going back into the past again, or to incite Claire to start looking for Jamie.

Roger has read the note Frank wrote to Rev. Wakefield to confess his creation of the gravestone, but I don't remember if Roger shares this info with Claire in Fiery Cross (I'm currently reading it again in leading up to the new book's release).
I don't think that Roger shared the note with anyone, yet, so Claire is still thinking that Jaime is safe as long as he's in America. But, I did get the feeling that Frank put the stone there to get Claire to look for Jaime, knowing that she probably wouldn't even go there unless Frank was no longer with her.

I have read most of the excerpts on Diana's website and it seems that Jaime & Roger go back to England in pursuit of Bonnet.

Some pps have said that they are wishing that the paternity of Jemmie is resolved. But, I think that both Roger & Brianna believe that Bonnet is Jemmie's biological son. Roger is prepared to raise Jemmie as his own just like Frank raised Brianna, knowing that she was not his biological child. I think the parallel between Frank and Roger is intentional.

AAR, this has been a great year for reading, what with HP & J/C books being released. Now if only that snail of a writer Jean Auel would announce her next book, I will be in book heaven!
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:18 AM
 
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BusyMommy, I also envy your rediscovery of the series! Careful with reading SIL's new copies though, especially if you have a tendency, like me, to read around your kids, read while eating, read in tub, etc... :LOL

My mother bought me the series for Christmas, 2003, and they are already
burned from cooking while reading
stained from coffee and food
wet from rain, baby drool, and bathwater
chewed up by new dog

Yes, Brianna needs to go back to the 20th century. I can see she and Roger getting a divorce (in the "me" decade of the 80s), but I wish that instead she would grow up and realize what a great/sexy/sweet/faithful guy she has!

Jenny, reading & writing mama of dd(18), ds(6), and ds(3)
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:33 AM
 
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Quote:
I don't think that Roger shared the note with anyone,
Yeah, check the first part of Fiery Cross--he tells Jamie and Brianna.

Quote:
especially if you have a tendency, like me, to read around your kids,
Yeah, : mine got got by a huge squirt gun today. 100 pages into Fiery Cross and it looks like a hand-me-down already.

And, I agree...Roger seems to have so much more depth. I wonder why DG did this?
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kymholly
I don't think that Roger shared the note with anyone, yet, so Claire is still thinking that Jaime is safe as long as he's in America.
I'm pretty sure that Roger shared the letter (from memory) with Jamie in FC, but I don't know if either of them ever shared it with Claire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kymholly
Some pps have said that they are wishing that the paternity of Jemmie is resolved. But, I think that both Roger & Brianna believe that Bonnet is Jemmie's biological son. Roger is prepared to raise Jemmie as his own just like Frank raised Brianna, knowing that she was not his biological child. I think the parallel between Frank and Roger is intentional.
This is a good point! Everyone realizes that Jem is probably Bonnet's, and there is a parallel between Frank and Roger ---- BUT -- there IS a small chance that Roger is the father, and both he and everyone else cling to this hope (remember when Jem [like Brianna and Roger] isn't able to roll his tongue)?

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Old 08-12-2005, 06:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Everyone realizes that Jem is probably Bonnet's
I always thought it was 50% chance of being Roger's and 50% chance of being Bonnet's. Unless I missed something big time in biology class...
Maybe the whole point is, that it doesn't really matter if Jem is Roger's biological child. He's the child's FATHER, raising him and all. At least for now.

Quote:
I have read most of the excerpts on Diana's website and it seems that Jaime & Roger go back to England in pursuit of Bonnet.
Hmm...don't have the link in front of me and am too lazy to actually go to DG excerpts, but I think I remember Jamie and Claire going back to England for another reason...something having to do with the American revolutionary war or Lord John Grey? Doesn't Claire go back to England as well?


I envy you all being able to actually read when your kids are awake. My dd takes the book from my hands (no mean feat, as you all know the size of DG's books) and closes it. I usually have time to glance at the page number before she closes it. So now I'm sneaking in a few pages during her afternoon naptime and sometimes in the evening. Only on chapter 3 in FC (but am reading it for the third or fourth time). I'm getting worried because my amazon open orders account hasn't given me a delivery date for ABOSAA (it's amazon.de, because we're in Germany). I hope the UK release date is the same as the US release date! I think so, because I think the German version will be released the same day.

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Old 08-13-2005, 12:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollycrand

Hmm...don't have the link in front of me and am too lazy to actually go to DG excerpts, but I think I remember Jamie and Claire going back to England for another reason...something having to do with the American revolutionary war or Lord John Grey? Doesn't Claire go back to England as well?
No, Claire stays in the US, as there is a section of the book that is Jamie writing letters to Claire while he is in England.


:LOL about taking & closing your books -- my ds does that to me too. Occasionally I talk him into getting his book & reading too, but it doesn't work often. Now my 8 month old grabs the book & slimes it, so that's out... can't even read when we're nursing -- it's bad enough when I slip & drop a paperback on baby's noggin' -- can you imagine dropping a hardcover DG book! Geeezz, it's as if I'm supposed to be taking care of the little goobers instead of reading all the time :LOL



I love all the points made about Brianna -- I see her more as still young. She had a fairly easy life, so she doesn't really "get it" yet, kwim? I think she's kinda clueless -- remember how she was wandering all over town looking for her parents when she first arrived in the US? Or how she just walked into being raped (not that I'm saying it was her fault, but she was pretty naive, kwim?). 'Course even Claire "needed" a good spanking before she understood how important things were... :LOL

I think the PP who said that Jemmy was probably Bonnet's said that because Roger & Brianna did attempt to use the "withdrawl" method...


My guess is that Brianna & Roger go back just after the big fire that is "foretold;" or just before/during & that's they're cover? Hmmmm... Can't believe the next one is almost here!
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Old 08-13-2005, 09:43 AM
 
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SPOILER******************************************* *********







I specifically remember an excerpt from DG's site where Claire and Jamie are in prison in England and Willie comes to visit Jamie in prison (or something like that) and just before they escape from prison (with Willie's help) Claire tells Willie that Jamie is his father.
But that is supposed to be from 'Sons of Liberty', the last book in the series

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Old 08-13-2005, 10:59 AM
 
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Hmmmm Holly (response to SPOILER -- more)









I thought that Claire told him when they were both locked up in a stable (each in a seperate stall). They were in there because Claire had married LJG -- thinking Jamie dead -- then Jamie came back & LJG's mom had them both thrown in "jail" for bigomy (right word?). LJG was not around at the time (out of town/state/country?), and *I think* Willie came to find out what was going on with step-mommy & Claire let it slip in her irritation w/ the situation & Jamie's chastisement.

I thought that all took place at LJG's place in the US...

Carolynn (who's off to visit DG's site!)
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Old 08-13-2005, 11:10 AM
 
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Okay, I'm almost positive it was in the colonies -- I can't post a direct link, but you can go to dianagabaldon.com, then click on excerpts & select "Sons of Liberty" then choose "Jamie meets Willie." They mention New York, New Bern & the Hudson - I just skimmed it, and I suppose it COULD be England, but it sounds local -- they also mentioned a Quaker girl...I thought that religion/sect evolved in the colonies, but I'm by no means educated on that so...
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Old 08-13-2005, 06:03 PM
 
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I had thought US also.

Wonder if DG ever lurks around here , and what she thinks of Brianna.

If so, I just want to say that I hope there is a VERY, VERY good reason why Claire marries LJG!!!!!

I'd heard there is a short story (not Lord John Grey and the Private Matter) with LJG published in some sort of fantasy anthology. Has anyone read it?

Jenny, reading & writing mama of dd(18), ds(6), and ds(3)
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Old 08-13-2005, 08:01 PM
 
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Okay, I'm going to stop w/ the spoilers, but Jenny, if you want to know, just go to DG's site, then excerpts, sons of liberty, and click on "LJG's proposal to Claire" ...
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Old 08-14-2005, 04:33 AM
 
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Carolynn, JennyClaire,

SORRY!! It does seem like it's still in the colonies. Having said that, Quakerism actually originally evolved in England 'The Society of Friends', and William Penn (Pennsylvania) originally became interested in Quakerism after attending a Quaker meeting in Cork, Ireland. BUT, quakerism flourished in the colonies, so...

I originally just skimmed the exerpt...had it in my head that it was some sort of 'prison' (and in a way it is) and I also assumed LJG and Willie were firmly back on English soil.
I wonder what happens to LJG's plantations in VA (that are mentioned in FC when Willie and LJG visit Fraser's Ridge)....or am I again wrong?

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Old 08-14-2005, 02:52 PM
 
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Holly, Maybe LJG loses his plantation in the war? I wonder which side of the revolution he will be on? After all, LJG is VERY English!

Carolynn, Just read the excerpt. I think I'd skimmed it before. WHO'S SAWNEY??

Jenny, reading & writing mama of dd(18), ds(6), and ds(3)
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Old 08-14-2005, 05:47 PM
 
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Sawney is/was Jamie's older brother William's nickname for him when he was a kid. I believe it's explained in DIA (or maybe Outlander?). Going to my 'Outlandish Companion' book now to look it up...

Nope. It's not in there. Something about it being a nickname for 'Alexander' comes to mind, and some incident with a snake(??) when William and Jamie were boys. I must look it up...

Hmmm. Good point about which side LJG will be on during the war. I wonder if Willie will end up being a 'rebel'? I mean, something needs to explain the 'land' they have eventually in New York. Ah...DG will no doubt explain all. Too bad we'll have to wait until something like 2010 to find out!

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Old 08-14-2005, 05:59 PM
 
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WOW!!! Who KNEW there were so many DG dorks around these parts!! :LOL

I LOVE the 'Outlander' series!!!

Like many PP, I, too, am re-reading the series in anticipation for the release of the the next book in the series in September. I am reading 'Drums of Autumn' right now....I hope I can kick out 'Fiery Cross' before the new one is released. I actually get thru them quite quickly...considering having two very busy youngsters underfoot all day and night. I will read for hours after the kids are sleeping.

I'm going to go back and read some more posts.....very interesting!!

There are three things I learned about life. It goes on. -Longfellow

 

stillheart.gifRIP DH DJ Delicious but mucho gracias for our children and all I have learnedstillheart.gif

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Old 08-14-2005, 11:20 PM
 
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Abby, welcome to the thread!!!! I definitely am a proud Outlander dork. DH has said that he wants to read the series just to understand me better!

Holly, In the "LJG proposal", Claire thinks that Sawney would be 9, wherever he is. I remember the nickname, but don't think it can be Jamie. However, I can't for the life of me figure out who it is!

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Old 08-15-2005, 01:35 AM
 
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My theory on Sawney -- (apart from it being a nickname Jamie was given by his older brother, which is in the 2nd or 3rd book, I believe -- and is carved into a wooden snake his brother made for him as a child) -- I think it is Bree & Roger's (another guess) 2nd child & they went back to "present day" with him/them. Why else would they not be mentioned as a concern after Jamie's "death" -- remember they only mention Fergus & Marsali. So, not only does she think her husband is dead, she can't even see her grandchildren...

Holly -- I think in that excerpt Claire mentions she can't marry LJG because she's a Patriot & he's a Royalist & he said that was okay as long as she didn't embarrass him in front of his fellow officers. Of course maybe he'll change sides later? And the house in NY might just be a perk of his job -- you know -- necessary as he was stationed there or something?

Holly -- thanks for the info on Quakerism! I like the idea that Willie & LJG might end up on opposite sides for a bit; could be quite interesting...

Anywho -- so glad there are so many crazy Jamie & Claire fans!
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Old 08-15-2005, 10:24 AM
 
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Definitely another CRAZY Jamie and Claire fan (but I daresay I haven't really been reading the DG excerpts as carefully as I should).
Well, I re-read the LJG proposal excerpt again, and saw the name 'Sawney'.

Cinamonamom,
Yes, I too think Sawney is Roger and Brianna's second child that they have before they go back through the stones, but named after this nickname given to Jamie by Willie (the older brother who dies of smallpox) . Do you think this means that in 'Sons of Liberty' Brianna and Roger won't even be main characters? Or would DG jump through time, in order to maybe have some material for another series?

Just my little 'ol opinion (and apologies to those moms who have children names Jemmy and Sawney), but Jemmy and Sawney are not exactly the most beautiful names for little boys that I have ever heard. Poor Sawney will have a really hard time in school with a name like that.

On that note, I wonder why Young Ian (and maybe Lizzie) aren't mentioned in 'LJG's proposal'. I mean, Ian is also supposed to be part of Jamie's 'family', and supposedly Jamie's heir to Fraser's Ridge. Does Young Ian then go back to live with the Mohak? Or does he go to Canada where they don't initiate a policy of genocide against the Indians? Or does he just go further West? Or does he go back to Scotland to see his mom, sent by Jamie so that he won#t have to fight in the War for Independance?

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Old 08-15-2005, 10:31 AM
 
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Oh yeah, one more thing. In a couple of the DG excerpts (LJG's proposal and Jamie's letter to Claire) Marsali is mentioned as being a person very concerned with etiquette and fashions. I suppose this means that she and Fergus will eventually have enough money to be amoungst the 'leisured' classes. Hmmm. By dishonest or honest means?

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Old 08-15-2005, 03:10 PM
 
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Possible SPOILER below









Well, at 1st I also thought that this Sawney was probably Brianna and Roger's child -- then I thought the dates would be wrong because DG was taking us through the beginning of the Revolutionary War. But if I've gotten that wrong, and DG is going through the END of the revolution (can't remember, help me out here!), AND if Brianna and Roger have a child right away, he would be around 9-years-old at the END of the revolution (1781?) -- meaning that Jamie and Claire survive the fire!!!!!!!!!!!



Or DG could just edit Sawney's age before publishing Sons of Liberty! :LOL

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Old 08-15-2005, 06:30 PM
 
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I think the whole 'fire' death notice will be fake anyways, so that Claire and Jamie can go away somewhere (Scotland? Canada? Jamaica? Brazil? Mars?) and just live out the rest of their years in peace.
Possibly to solve the slavery issue too? Since Claire doesn't ever want to own slaves and since North Carolina will eventually become a slave state after the United States of America is born. So, they fake their deaths (and probably have 'faked' Roger's, Brianna's, Jemmy's, and Sawney?'s deaths so they can go back to the future). I mean, one bought of fever or smallpox, and they're all wiped out. No questions asked.

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Old 08-19-2005, 03:13 PM
 
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I have GOT to stop reading this thread b/c now I'm assuming the whole of Fraser's Ridge is wiped out and all the great families I'm reading about in FC are all destroyed.
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Old 08-19-2005, 06:23 PM
 
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The very first DG book I read was Lord John and the Private Matter and that inspired me to get into the other books. I really enjoy them and am looking forward to the next, but I have to admit that some of the later books in the series could have used some editing. I hope she writes another "Lord John" book, too--I really enjoy his character and think it's an interesting side story.

Brianna and Roger, to me, are both irritating. But I also think they're reasonably realistic under the circumstances, and I think it makes the story more interesting to have some of the "good guys" be harder to like, like it is IRL. I think they both have a lot of growing up to do, and a lot to learn about communicating! I get pretty tired of the "I didn't tell you 'cause I wanted to protect you" thing. That always ends badly.

Claire is one of my all-time favorite characters ever! And Jamie is not far behind, although sometimes I want to shake him, he's so darn stubborn!
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Old 08-20-2005, 12:39 PM
 
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Diana Gabaldon

Quote from website:
Well, this time Germany is actually the first country to publish the book (thanks to the superhuman efforts of my amazing--and exhausted--German translator, Barbara Schnell). It will be released in Germany (and only in Germany) on September 6. Consequently, I'll be going to Germany in September, and will be doing events in four cities there: Munich, Bonn, Hamburg, and Berlin. For details visit the Tours page.

HOLLY, YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOO LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!! It will be all we can do to restrain ourselves from finding out what happens as you read.

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Old 08-20-2005, 02:28 PM
 
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Jennyclaire,

THANKS! I had no idea the book was coming out here so early. Although I wonder if the English version will be out the same time, as it's my mother tongue and I can't see myself reading 600 pages of German in such a short time.
I imagine I'll be reading the book in English along with the rest of you. Of course, I may just go to the bookstore and have a wee peek as to what happens...

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Old 08-20-2005, 02:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divina
Brianna and Roger, to me, are both irritating. But I also think they're reasonably realistic under the circumstances, and I think it makes the story more interesting to have some of the "good guys" be harder to like, like it is IRL. I think they both have a lot of growing up to do, and a lot to learn about communicating! I get pretty tired of the "I didn't tell you 'cause I wanted to protect you" thing. That always ends badly.
Okay, I understand this -- & could pretty much agree -- nicely put!

I think DG has stated that she'll be doing many more LJG books.


Arg...now I want to move to Germany! (Or at least learn to read the language! :LOL)
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Old 08-20-2005, 08:51 PM
 
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Holly, just noticed your new signature - congratulations on the new babe! Even without speaking German, at least you could go to one of DG's readings.

One has to wonder, WHY GERMANY????????? since none of the story takes place there? Is it just because there is a German translator?

Jenny, reading & writing mama of dd(18), ds(6), and ds(3)
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Old 08-21-2005, 06:12 PM
 
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I do speak German pretty well (dh is German), but I'm too lazy to start reading the books in German now, since I've read them all in English up to now. I'll have to check out when and where the DG readings will be. Probably nowhere near me. I'm sure she'll hit Frankfurt, Berlin, Munich...but probably miss SW Germany!

I'm now CURIOUS to see what happens and might just buy the book and read it. Should I post then, or should I wait for you all to read so that we can discuss?

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Old 08-21-2005, 06:56 PM
 
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Jennyclaire,

Thanks for the congrats.

As for why Germany has the book released first, I can only say that maybe a part of the book does take place in Germany, or German characters are very important in this book? I know most of DG's books have a smattering of German in them...in FC I think there was as much if not more German phrases than Gaelic.
I know DG has a VERY good relationship with her German translator (who is actually pretty good, by the way) and the DG books are VERY popular in Germany. I can find copies of all five Jamie/Claire books in all public libraries, plus some of her short stories and the LJG mystery. In addition, Germans also like to read English fiction, and there's usually a copy of a DG book in most German language bookstores in the English fiction section (usually small; so this is a compliment to DG).
I haven't heard anything about the book coming out sooner in Germany than in the US/UK though. But I know book marketing in Germany is quite restricted, especially when it's a non-German writer.

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