Mindful Parenting Book Club Part IV - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 207 Old 03-11-2003, 09:37 AM
 
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I'm not much for emoticons (just don't have the time, LOL), but huge for mamabutterfly. Maybe this event will change the tide and you can find a way to reconnect. A very loud message for both of you. And when you do reconnect, make sure to share the making up with your dd, so that she sees that the whole cycle come round. (got that piece of advice from the women here).

take care of yourself

Angie

Angie, Mama to Finn (6/01) and Theo (4/05)
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#182 of 207 Old 03-11-2003, 12:54 PM
 
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So I said to myself this morning, "I don't really have time, but I need to check in with my friends..." and now I know why. Anne!!! I agree with Iguana and Angie - you need to get help NOW, it is NOT okay to get pushed around, and you DO need to let Sophie see everything come full circle. Oh, my heart breaks for you! I'm glad to hear that you will get counseling, but PLEASE be careful - this can be the start of a cycle that becomes impossible for women to break out of.

Dh and I have been struggling, too, for months - we just don't connect like we used to. I, too, chalk it up to exhaustion, busy schedules and, let's face it, life (and sleep) with a toddler. I think it's really hard for people to navigate through these marital changes once you have a little one (particularly a little one who you have chosen to AP), and NOBODY EVER SAYS HOW HARD THIS IS!!! Yes, we knew it would change our lives. Yes, we knew it would be difficult (in some abstract way). But no, I never knew how little sex we would have, how few conversations we would have that did not revolve around ds, etc etc etc... Why is this such a secret?

I have been trying to talk to ds about mindfulness so that we don't lose the "us" in the rare moments that we have, but it's tough. You all know the drill. Suffice it to say, Anne, that we are here, we want you to be well and whole and strong for Sophie and for yourself, and we will listen and offer help whenever we can. Wish the drive from Wisconsin to Pennsylvania were shorter...

Karen
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#183 of 207 Old 03-11-2003, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, good heavens...I finally was able to get cranky...ummm I mean dumpling, down for a nap so I can jump in and post here w/o being rushed.

Ditto on what everyone else wrote, Anne. And triple hugs from us too. What else can I add to what has already been written, but just know that we are all sending loving vibes your way!

Here's my take on a few things about being a mama that a fellow LLL and AP mama friend and I talk about a lot. Maybe it will help you to know understand more about why we are soooo tired and long for the fellowship of others mamas. The culture we live in now has gotten so far away from how we are biologically meant to live. We are designed to live in tribes/villages.

With that in mind can you see why we feel so isolated, overwhelmed, tired, and depressed? Since dh has been laid off now for two months and we are starting to adjust and enjoy this time together as family I can really see a difference in my moods. I get at least one to two hours a day to do my thing around the house and leave if I need to. I'm not always the "default" parent as I was before. He takes dumpling to his grandparents and comes home when he wants to nurse. I get alone time and I have dh to interact with. Our marriage is getting stronger. We're not under so much pressure with him gone all the time at work. It's great. But in the back of my mind I know it will end soon and I am soooooooooo scared. Because I dont want to be alone and do all this alone again all day. IT IS HARD. I am not biologically programmed to be a super human. And dh is not either. It's just HARD all around. Before I was witchy and depressed a lot and very resentful about feeling so alone most of the day. Many times I want to go somewhere, but where? And most days I was or am too tired to go anywhere.

So what's the solution to this dilemma? I HAVE NO IDEA. : Maybe just to do the best we can and give ourselves and our spouses as much compassion as we can. Seems like I often put dh on guilt trips and that he can never do enough to help me with ds or around the house. I wish I had an easy solution. Dh would never live in a commune or village and I dont know if I would either.

We're all learning, growing, and changing everyday. Even our spouses. It's just hard to see it b/c it's such a slow process.

Another round of tea please. Sorry for the long drawn out post.
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#184 of 207 Old 03-11-2003, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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O.k. so indulge me a little. It's so easy to get a big head and think we're going to be big shot mindful mamas one day....I wish!

Here's another fave from this chapter to keep me humble...NOT, but worth a try, right?! Page 132~
Quote:
"One of my teachers {JKZ's}, a Korean Zen Master, used to say, "Open your mouth and you're wrong." (Sometimes this is the way Zen Masters speak.) "Don't mistake your finger pointing at the moon for the moon." So think about Zen riddles and stories as fingers pointing at something. The pointing is not something...In the cae of Zen koans, the something that is being pointed to is not even at "thing." So it's BEST to just keep the riddle or question or story in your mind and in your heart, whatever that means to you, and try not to answer it, or even try to understand it in the usual thinking way. This is what meditation is all about."
Life is full of mysteries. Sometimes just when we think we have our babes, selves, spouses, and life all figured out we realize we dont. Like some of you were mentioning earlier about X's and how different our lives would be. Everyday it seems like my opinions about so many things are evolving, like myself and my view of the world. Some days I'm up and others I'm . And really none of that (my thoughts) even matters...and yet it does in that I have my attachments to my thoughts on occasions. Go figure.
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#185 of 207 Old 03-11-2003, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wanted to add real quick that I am still not living in Utopia either. Dh and I still have our moments. And he is not home all day. Our house is still a mess. We dont argue over who will vacuum. We just let things slide, A LOT. And when he is gone for four or five hours doing job interview stuff or odd jobs I wonder how I made it when he was gone 10-13 hours a day. :

After recently watching Lord of The Rings on video, I find myself wishing I was a hobbit and lived in their village. Somehow, I wonder if I'd never be satisfied though.
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#186 of 207 Old 03-12-2003, 09:40 PM
 
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Clink! I'm drinking decaf!

{{{ANNE}}}

Ditto on the disconnection with DH, not much sex, exhausted, busy, not talking much, wish I had a village. And that's all I have the energy to say right now.

Analisa, Mama to Meg 12/12/01, Patrick 12/24/03, Catherine 12/24/03, Ben 2/26/06
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#187 of 207 Old 03-12-2003, 10:30 PM
 
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Here's one more person sending out hugs and healing vibes to you and your dh, Anne. I am SO sorry. What an amazingly senstivie mama you are to the sweet Sophie -- she is so fortunate to have you!

And iguanavere, HUGS to you, too! When it rains, it pours, huh?

And hugs to everyone else putting one step in front of the other. I, too, am sleepwalking thru my life . . . to the extent that I lie awake at night thinking, "There's no WAY we can have another baby, 'cause I can't DO this again!!!" (referring mostly to the sleep deprivation and the way it kills my creativity, resourcefulness, sense of humor, patience, libido, and so on and so on)

It's a good thing that breathing is an involuntary function . . . for those times when we would flat-out stop doing it if it was something we had to remember!

You guys are so good. I'm breaking out the wine for my teacup! [[[GASP!]]] Call the BF police!
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#188 of 207 Old 03-13-2003, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The past few days I see us in a candle lit, victorian room sitting in a circle sipping on our tea, coffee, Pepsi, (I get to add wine to my visualization ) and chatting up a storm. I see no babes in the room. Is that scary? This picture in my head makes me smile and brings me comfort. Like an old friend holding my hand through a scary movie, except this time the scary movie is my life and I am not eleven anymore.

Being a mother is way more than I ever dreamed it would be. It is way COOL! But is also a ton of work. But it is so worth it. Every minute I see the fruits of my labor paying off. And the wet baby kisses arent bad either. So I say the inner and outer work is tough, but inch by inch it is a cinch.

Off to see the WIZARD.
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#189 of 207 Old 03-13-2003, 06:07 PM
 
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Clink!

I wish I had a nice cup of decaf chai, but don't want to bother going downstairs to make it as ds will probably wake up any minute.

We're experiencing a period of what I've heard called "disequilibrium" with almost 21 mo old Finn and I'm trying to wrap my mind around it. He's always been pretty mellow, sharing his toys, giving things to other people if they really want them, transitioning pretty easily. Now, he's starting to develop a stronger sense of personal ego, not let go of toys, not transition easily, run away from us (this from the kid who almost always has to hold my finger in public as that's what he wanted to make himself comfortable).

In part of my mind, I know that these are good things. They show that he's developing a sense of self, gaining independence, all that good developmental stuff. But I'm having trouble really believing it in my heart, IYKWIM. Even though I've always argued that being easy isn't the same as being good, I think that I've been taking credit for some of his "good" behavior that's probably more a function of his personality and developmental maturity more than anything.

I think the real challenge for my personal growth is learning to really see him beyond the external trappings of behavior (both good and bad) and loving that nebulous inside. I have a tendency to be a bit black and white about good and bad in my own life. We hang out with some friends with a dd his age who's very spirited and developmentally precocious, so she's been showing these ego-signs for a long time and I realize that after hanging out with them sometimes, the behavior gets in the way and I lose sight of her. Sometimes I wonder why Finn still likes to hang out with her given lots of screaming and conflict, but realize that he's seeing her more clearly than I am. He sees her spark and accepts the good and the bad and still loves her. Another life lesson from my little monkey. Anyone have any words of wisdom to help these surface realizations sink in. My personal history of being "good" is really getting in the way here and if I don't get a grip, ds and I are in for a long bumpy ride.

thanks for listening
angie

Angie, Mama to Finn (6/01) and Theo (4/05)
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#190 of 207 Old 03-13-2003, 08:05 PM
 
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Anne, wow, what a tough situation. I am so sorry and it's true: it is not OK to be shoved. I hope you get a chance to reconnect soon and things will get better. We are certainly bad about reconnecting at home. Last night we didn't even really talk as I was taking a batha nd then went to bed when DH got home. Too much of that and we start getting snippy an it all goes downhill from there. So I understand. It is still not OK to be shoved by anyone.

Isn't it strange that we always feel it is easier to do something like shoving or hurting someone we know and love than some stranger?

I've been home with DD feeling sick or three days and it was miseable. There was no way I was going to get anything done, because she just wanted me to carry her and to sleep next to her. Poor thing. Today she ate her whole breakfast and chased squirrels and when I asked her if she wanted to go to daycare, she ran to the car. Good enough, she went. She was so happy to see all her friends it was really cute.

But I have a backlog of work so I have to go. I will finish reading your thought and reply later.
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#191 of 207 Old 03-13-2003, 08:13 PM
 
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wow- i stopped getting my notifications from mdc for some reason and just thought the eb discussion was unusually quiet.

so then i seek the thread out, and i missed so much!!!

i wish i had time to respond to each and every post b/c there were so many i resonated with.

i laughed, i cried...

so to sum up what i dont have time to do piece by piece, i am just really hit with what an absolutely great group of people this is.

i appreciate the insight, the struggles you share, the triumphs. it's so much a gift for us to share these things b/c we have the opportunity to learn so much more from eachothers own experiences.

and btw, "you are your childs first teacher" was one of my favorite books and why i put my 12 yo in waldorf school.

right on everyone- thank you so much for this thread. i am so glad it is still alive and well.
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#192 of 207 Old 03-14-2003, 03:58 PM
 
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Breathe~ pour me a glass while you are at it (in a wineglass, I don't drink wine from mugs hee hee)

Boy everyone is having a lot of processes going on.

Liminalone, I have no wisdom for you. But I can understand how hard it is to have the developing ego. DD is going through that too and her new favorite word: MINE! Drives me crazy. And the tantrums, and minitantrums I deal with by taking adeep breath and saying to myself ~it's OK for her to be upset, and it is OK for you to set this limit. I give her some sympathy like "it looks like you are dissapointed, frustrated blah blah blah. and an explanation, and I hold my ground.
The other night she had a huge fit because I gave her dry cheerios in the middle of the night when she wanted pretzels. Too bad, I let her have her tantrum and then she sat in her room in the dark and ate her cheerios sniffling. Then she came to get me to put her back to bed. That was a hard one because I really have a negative assosiation with crying in the middle of the night. Like it is CIO, only in this case it was a tantrum KWIM?

I have no idea how we are ever going to have another kid. I feel totally overwhelmed by DD some days and other days I feel like I can totally manage.

I too want a village, but having my few spread out friends are going to have to be enough. I am making friends with some neighbours though so maybe that will be a better support network for me.
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#193 of 207 Old 03-15-2003, 01:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, there are a lot of processes goin' on here. And yet so many parrellells as someone else commented on awhile back. Duh~couldnt resist...

I'm sorry Angie, ds is only 15 months so I dont have any words of wisdom. But I have a feeling Mamak may have some words for you...: My ds has a very strong personality and I am constantly struggling with being too lax b/c I dont want to be controlling but where do I draw the line? I guess I'll know soon enough if I have been too lax. Right now most everything is cute to me....I keep hoping the honeymoon will not end. I'm usually layed back and just try to take it all in. : But black and white thinking is so prevalent in my verbal and written dialogues, and thinking. But not always with ds, mostly dh. But I'm learning to think outside of the box there too. You all have been great at helping me there. ~Me bowing down to my fellow mamas. Need a namaste here...

Jacq, what you wrote about not connecting with your dh and then getting snippy and all down hill...I used those lines today to get dh to see why we were being snippy this morn. He totally agreed and we made time for us to reconnect and will be able to recognize the signs a little sooner next time so it wont "go down hill from here." Well it could have been a distaster for us today, but your words helped me avoid that. I was able to step back and erase the irrational thoughts, breathe, and work through the inner junk. Basically we've had a super busy week with his odd jobs, interviews, house repairs he's doing, and other activities pulling us all over. And did I mention LACK OF SLEEP causing us to get on eachother's nerves???? BTW, I'm glad nugget is feeling better!! Sounds like you handled her illness/neediness well. That is always a test of a mother's patience.

And Mamak~I wondered if you had read that book. I hear some of your wisdom in my head and it reminds me that book (you are your child's 1st teacher). I know very little about the Waldorf schools but I really like the child development research they've done and their philosophy. I plan to use that knowledge when I homeschool/unschool mine. And thanks for your kind words in your post. I am really happy we have kept our little thread here going too and I think YOU are all AWESOME! Especially b/c you put up with my insanity! ild

I'm feeling a little sentimental that we are almost finished with Part IV of our discussion. On Sunday we'll be moving onto the last chapter of Part IV which is called "The Stillness Between Two Waves." But I'm very excited about Part V of the book.

Happy travels to all of you that have plans during Spring Break! It was in the 50s here today and is supposed to be 72 here tomorrow! What a heat wave for the Midwest!

Love,
Heather

PS~Someone at MDC has a really cool sign off that says "The best thing you can do to promote world peace is to have a peaceful home....by Mother Theresa." :bf
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#194 of 207 Old 03-15-2003, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I realize I went a little haywire on my icons...but I just had to try those out!

:bf Stick a binky in me and shut me up...I'm done for today......:binky
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#195 of 207 Old 03-16-2003, 07:36 PM
 
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Just wanted to pipe in quickly and agree that the lack of connection is almost always what leads to raw nerves btwn me an dh . . . It's almost like when I start to feel distance (due to busy shcedules or lack of sleep or whatever), I get comfortable w/that distance and then its hard for me to get close again. I feel certain it's an intimacy problem -- I've always been so comfortable being alone, so sometimes that feels easiest.

And then of course this means that very often, even when sex is the LAST thing I think I need/want, it is exactly what dh and I need to reconnect and start being nice to each other again.

Why is mother nature so cruel to take away my libido when I need it to keep my mariage happy?!?! Surely she wanted me to EBF, so what's up with that?!?!

Still no reading on my part, but C.L. your post just inspired me to pick up EB again!

Come on, SPRING!
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#196 of 207 Old 03-16-2003, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can you believe this is the last chapter of Part IV? We started Part IV in January. For some reason I am feeling so weepy about this. Maybe it's b/c I'm so grateful we've made it this far. And I am very grateful for all am gaining here.

And Breathe, thanks for solidifying what Jacq. wrote about "all down hill from here." It's funny, or depressing really, but it took her post to make me see the "light." But I think everyone's posts here about their relationships have really impacted my marriage in a positve way which in turn is helping my parenting!

O.k. so any thoughts about this last chapter? I have several but we are in the middle of bar-b-quing and it is a marvelous evening! So what am I doing here, right??? Just crazy 'bout my MDC mamas! Please feel free to post away about this chapter, any thoughts on Part IV, or whatever you want to share and I will be back tonight or tomorrow.

And Breathe, I'm looking forward to what you and the others have to say about upcoming chapters. Glad if anyone else out there is feeling inspired to read the book.
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#197 of 207 Old 03-17-2003, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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After re-reading this chapter again, I found a few lines that are echoing in my mind. The approach that the KZs took in writing this chapter is very different from all the others. They broke up the last quartet of a song/poem (?) written by TS Elliot called the "Little Gidding," and they made comments after a few verses. This approach gave me chills b/c Elliot's "Little Gidding" and the KZs thoughts combined were so moving. And then at the end of the chapter they put all the stanzas together to be re-read.

Here's the last quartet of "Little Gidding"
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
Through the unknown, unremembered gate
When the last of earth left to discover
Is that which was the beginning;
At the source of the longest river
The voice of the hidden waterfall
And the children in the apple-tree
Not known, because not looked for
But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
Between two waves of the sea.
Quick now, here, now, always—
A condition of complete simplicity
(Costing not less than everything)
And all shall be well and
All manner of thing shall be well
When the tongues of flame are in-folded
Into the crowned knot of fire
And the fire and the rose are one.
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#198 of 207 Old 03-17-2003, 01:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Page 147~
Quote:
[KZs]Quick now, only in this moment is anything, whether it is our children or the fluctuations of our own mind, to be seen or felt or heard. But that can only happen if we are willing to pay exquistite attention and be present and completely available, to look, and listen and remain open. Otherwise, countless opportunities for seeing and for relating to our children can remain opaque to us.

[Elliot]Not known, b/c not looked for.

[KZs] But if we do look, perhaps we will catch a glimmer. If we listen inwardly, perhaps we may hear our own life, our true self calling to us: [Elliot]
But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
Between two waves of the sea.

[KZs] That is, when our own awareness can hold the space between two thoughts, in the stillness we can hear

[Elliot] The voice of the hidden waterfall
And the children in the apple tree
So many images flutter in and out of my mind after and during reading the above words from the poem. I think of what I may remember thirty years from now from the beautiful moments of today and this past year with with ds. I think it will all be jumbled up in my head. And I hope I can remember the echo of his giggles, the sweet smell of his baby breath, how his little body wraps perfectly around mine when he is on my lap nursing, and how I was able to make his day by just being there for him in an instant when he was hurt, tired, hungry, thirsty, or was excited to show me something he found exploring the house. [wiping away my tears]

I'm so afraid that 30 years from now I will regret not being "here" more and for the times I lost my calm or did not listen to "The voice of the hidden waterfall" which to me is what is right there but so hard to hear when we are "closed" or "distant." Ya know those little things we are supposed to hear but instead we hear doubts, or worries, things we should be doing instead of what we are doing now. Ya know those things that keep us from fully being in the "now"?
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#199 of 207 Old 03-18-2003, 03:43 PM
 
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Heather, that is a beautiful reflection... You should print it out to read each morning! This is such a hard thing, practicing real presence in each moment, but it also seems like the *only* thing.

Can you all imagine if George W (or his world leader counterparts) were to incorporate the KZ's kind of mindfulness in their lives, what an unreconizably different world this would be?

sending hugs to all,
anne

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#200 of 207 Old 03-18-2003, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Anne, thanks! After the fact I wondered if I went a little over the top in my post. Mainly b/c I totally forget to mention my thoughts about another part I also could relate to in the quote about the stillness between two waves.

A few months ago I was hopeful to get life to slow down a little so I could make my life more of retreat so I could hear the "hidden waterfall". Yet I didnt want to sacrafice some of the fun stuff I like to be involved in that is very meaningful to me and my family. So now I am trying to focus on the stillness between the waves, which I see [waves] as the busyness of life and the stillness as the the stuff in between that keeps me grounded and focused so I dont get carried off by the waves. This grounding is helping me to find/see what activities, people, etc. I want to be involved with so I am not cluttering my life and just jumping from one event to the next...KWIM?

Here's the quote I am referring to from my last post:
Quote:
But if we do look, perhaps we will catch a glimmer. If we listen inwardly, perhaps we may hear our own life, our true self calling to us: [Elliot]
But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
Between two waves of the sea.

[KZs] That is, when our own awareness can hold the space between two thoughts, in the stillness we can hear

[Elliot] The voice of the hidden waterfall
And the children in the apple tree
And, I totally agree with you, Anne about our world being so different if everyone would practice mindfulness. I am feeling so hopeful for the future despite all that is pending/looming in the world at the moment.
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#201 of 207 Old 03-19-2003, 07:52 PM
 
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I have been telling people lately that Meg and I have too many extracurricular activities. We are always running. That's the way I prefer to be, but I'm thinking maybe there are too many waves and not enough stillnesses...

Analisa, Mama to Meg 12/12/01, Patrick 12/24/03, Catherine 12/24/03, Ben 2/26/06
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#202 of 207 Old 03-19-2003, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Analisa~That's how I used to like it before ds came along. But my life seems to spiral out of control so easily now from lack of sleep, a terrible teething day/night, an illness, and before I know it I dont know whether i am coming or going (and that's when I feel ppd). So I try to stay a little more focused thru yoga, meditation, and down time. But with the nice weather we had here last week I can see down time is going to be hard to come by with ds and I wanting to be outside 24/7. : But yeah, I love the that stillness between the wave idea. It gives me hope that I can still have my waves and stillness in between....as long as the waves dont turn into TIDAL WAVES....

Hugs to all!
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#203 of 207 Old 03-20-2003, 03:09 AM
 
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So JKZ talks about mediatating as being anything and that nuns, priests, monks all do repetative things like gardening or sand mandalas and that work is temporary and has agreat intrinsic value but is not valued because it doesn't last.

I have been looking for this passage and can't find it (why didn't I highlight!?)

Can anyone remind me of the chapter or page #?

Things have been out of control for us since our house was broken into and about $13K of stuff was taken. We are now getting the run around from our insurance company. Aaarghghghg!

So anyway, poor ds was, as usual, the barometer for our stress and he was acting out a great deal. We were not very mindful parents and were yelling a lot.

Well I realized that I needed to center myself and I did a little reading and figured it out.

So I am meditating on the hour every hour. just stopping and breathing - whatever I am doing - I just have to to keep things sane.

Send positive vibes - we really need them!
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#204 of 207 Old 03-20-2003, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Iguanavere~
I remember reading that but unfortunately I dont remember off hand what chapter. I believe it was in Part IV though. When ds takes his nap I will look in the book. I'm so sorry about your frustration and am sending you happy and kick butt vibes to get your insurance company to cooperate with you.
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#205 of 207 Old 03-20-2003, 03:29 PM
 
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I have a used copy of this book for sale at the Trading Post if anyone needs a copy

"We shape the clay into a pot but it is the emptiness inside that holds whatever we want" Lao Tzu
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#206 of 207 Old 03-20-2003, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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FirstTimeMom~Thanks! I hope you are able to find a buyer.

Iguanavere~I scanned the book for that quote you are trying to find and I didnt have any luck either. Maybe one of the mamas here will remember where it is in the book.

I'm taking a down day today. I feel like I am getting a cold. Mindful vibes to all...

(I wonder how MDC moms will use this one ~moon????)
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#207 of 207 Old 03-21-2003, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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New thread for Sunday ~ “Everyday Blessings” Part V ~ Book Discussion & Tea Party <=Click this link...

At some point in time, please go to the new thread and post or subscribe so you will get the email notices.

I'm so excited about Part V and I hope you are too. I'm looking forward to our discussion of Part V as it relates to our daily lives in so many ways and I think it will bring about a lot of great discussions.
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