“Everyday Blessings” Part V ~ Book Discussion & Tea Party - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 250 Old 04-05-2003, 06:55 PM
 
Breathe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 1,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's funny, Heather, cause I was gonna PM you and see if you had read the Bradley book -- it's VERY informative, even if you don't take the childbirth classes, and even if you don't agree w/Dr. Bradley that husbands have to "coach" their wives thru birth. Anyone know what it's called? I think it's "Natural Childbirth the Bradley Way" or something like that.

Regarding Pitocin, BE GLAD you didn't know what it was!!!! It's an artificial hormone that induces unnaturally strong and fast contractions (sometimes dangerously so, so that women have hemmoraged). It almost always leads to pain meds bc the pain is so unnaturally intense.

I think you would love Henci Goer's "The Thinking Woman's Guide to Better Birth" -- chocked full of info.

And be easy on yourself about not knowing. That's what growing up is (supposed to be) all about! Imagine all that'we'll know 10 years from now that we don't know now.

I really believe that everything happens for a reason -- to teach us valuable lessons -- and that the Universe/God/Mother Nature intended for you to have the birth you did. Now if you can figure out what lessons were there for you AND try to learn from them, you're doing all that anyine can be expected to do in a lifetime. IMHO, you're already doing aGREAT job at this, so keep soaking it all up! I love your spongieness!
Breathe is offline  
#62 of 250 Old 04-05-2003, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the book ideas, Breathe. I added those books to my wish list, especially the Bradley book since I am planning a homebirth (not pg yet or trying but I have a feeling we will next year. ). Dh needs all the help he can get, and me too. Anyone else have any books to recommend? I found the links to Breathe's suggestions if anyone is interested in reading the reviews on Powell's.
"Natural Childbirth the Bradley Way"

"The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth"

I like everyone's spongieness here too!!! Well I'm off to read another library book on my table, "The Magical Child." But I did read the next chapter in our book today too. The weather here *$#! this weekend, so I am glad for the distractions since we stayed home all day with puking and tired ds.

Clink
Curly Locks is offline  
#63 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 12:21 AM
 
Megs Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 2,808
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Breathe
Oh, Analisa, Congrats on getting the support you need! Very brave, as I've come to expect from you!
Aw, you made my night! Thanks! OK, it also made my night that I won a prize at my scrapbooking party this evening

I thanked my mw, too.

Analisa, Mama to Meg 12/12/01, Patrick 12/24/03, Catherine 12/24/03, Ben 2/26/06
Megs Mom is offline  
#64 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 12:29 AM
 
Megs Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 2,808
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Breathe
I really believe that everything happens for a reason -- to teach us valuable lessons -- and that the Universe/God/Mother Nature intended for you to have the birth you did. Now if you can figure out what lessons were there for you AND try to learn from them, you're doing all that anyine can be expected to do in a lifetime.
What a lovely, comforting thought...

Analisa, Mama to Meg 12/12/01, Patrick 12/24/03, Catherine 12/24/03, Ben 2/26/06
Megs Mom is offline  
#65 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 10:48 AM
 
Iguanavere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All of Sheila Kitzenger's books, especially "Homebirth".

Suzanne Armes book , "Immaculate Deception II"

"Birth: An American Rite Or Passage"

"Birthing From Within"

I'm checking in for a bit - things are really improving in our lives. It seems tha the universe was really challenging us and things have turned and we are doing much better.

More later!
Iguanavere is offline  
#66 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 12:09 PM
 
Breathe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 1,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"Gentle Birth Choices" and its video are also really nice. I've shown the video to college women when I lecture about the obstetric vs. midwifery models . . . quite an eye-opener for them, but this video is gentle and not in-your-face.

H, I think you'd like "Spiritual Midwifery," too, by Ina May Gaskins. It's a little out there, but I felt like the more "out there" stuff I read, the more a drug-free birth in a birth center started to sound kind of mainstream!

And if you really wanna go "out there," do an MDC search for "Freebirth." J. Pavarti-Baker endorses unassisted homebirth (mama all by herself, no m/w or doula) and has a web site and books, I'm sure. I feel CERTAIN there are mamas here who've done it.

Oh, and I would also suggest that you NEVER, EVER watch A Birth Story on cable. I know you don't watch TV anymore, but if anyone ever recommends that to you, know that 99% of the births they show are medicalized, even tho MANY of the women want natural births . . . they almost all end up flat on their backs, strapped to machines, and asking for drugs. It's not that I'm judging them, bc I *believe* they need the drugs in those situations, I'm just saying it could really undermine your confidence if you were gearing up for an intervention-free birth.

Wow. Let me get down off this soapbox before I get stuck up here! :

About to unplug my computer to rearrange furniture. You know how that goes . . . could be a while before I'm back. Have a great week, Everyone!
Breathe is offline  
#67 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
And, Breathe, thanks for your kind words last night. I think the universe does have a plan too. And I like it!

Analisa, congrats on the award. I'm not a scapper, but I have scapbook envy!! And you are brave! You were the one that got me thinking about going to a therapist. Thanks!

Iguanavere, I'm so glad things are swinging around to the fun/better times for you again. Thanks also for the book ideas. Here are the two I found on Powell's that had reviews. I added those to my wish list as well.
Birthing from Within: An Extra-Ordinary Guide to Childbirth Preparation
by Pam England

Immaculate Deception II: Myth, Magic & Brith
by Suzanne Arms
Curly Locks is offline  
#68 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Breathe~We were posting at the same time. Happy rearranging! I knew there was a reason I never watched the Birth Story on TV when we had cable. Dh started watching it before we were even TTC and I refused to watch. Glad I trusted my instincts. Which is a shock for me back then!

I've heard really good things about Ina Mae's books. A LLL leader told me about that book (Spiritual Midwifery). I have not read it though. I have a lot I want to read before I conceive and give birth. Thanks for the video ideas too. We are planning to watch some of those too. I'll add those to my wish list. I'm going to sell some stuff to buy some books (maybe our TV this summer..heehee...squeel).

Later, ladies! Dh took ds to grandma's and I need to go meditate/yoga.
Curly Locks is offline  
#69 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maybe selling the TV is a bad idea until I watch some of these videos. I can tape my yoga and pilate tapes to audio. But I dont think the inlaws would understand if we watched homebirth videos at their home.

A search on "free birth" pulled up a lot of neat stuff on MDC. Including some neat polls. I like the homebirth forum at MDC, very informative. And there are unassisted birth/free birth stories there too. Since ds's birth went so quick, that wouldnt be a stretch for me. But I have a lot of learning to do before I feel ready! And a lot of inner work to do as well, IMHO. I know homebirth/free birth/Unassisted is not for everyone but I am willing to take the chance and try. The hospital is only a few minutes from our house if I change my mind. I'm sure they would not turn me away..."Sorry, lady...we dont need your money!" Ha!

Here are some neat links I found that have all sorts of alternative birthing AND cool parenting options that are out there.
Unassisted Childbirth Links ~ from Laura Shanley's site
Freestone Innerprizes - Jeannine Parvati Baker You'll love these if you have an open mind and are interested in knowing what else is out there. Otherwise I wouldn't open these links. It may be a culture shocks to you.


"Motherings" 25 Classic Parenting/Pregnancy/Birth Books Some of the books on their list~Spiritual Midwifery, Birth as an American Rite of Passage by Robbie Davis-Floyd, Immaculate Deception II: A Fresh Look at Childbirth by Suzanne Arms, The Complete Book of Pregnancy and Childbirth by Sheila Kitzinger, and of course "EB" is on the list, too. If you open my link to the list they are all linked to Powell's Books, if you want to read more about them or purchase a book. Aren't books cool? Especially ones that empower us to make healthy, smart, and informed decisions! Not ones that make us better patients, like the book I read when I was pg.

Dh and ds will be back soon from their little get-a-way. Zoom!!!!

Clink Leaving now...for real....
Curly Locks is offline  
#70 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 02:20 PM
 
mamakarata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sonoma County, California
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
you know, after having my first in a hospital, i made such a point to myself that i would homebirth my 2nd, and wound up back in the hospital. i was going w/o pit, wound up with pit, w/o breaking the bag of waters, w/o any muscle relaxant, got both. granted, it was the smallest dose possible, then cut in half, but i gave in.

but what get's me, is that i didn't give in to myself, i gave in to the midwife who kept offering it!

i look back at my midwife and her support, and remember her saying she had to leave. like she was hurrying me. i don't want to remember that because it reminds me that i made a poor choice in midwife's somehow.

i think of her insisting on breaking my bag of waters to speed things up. telling me i wouldn't have the energy to push if i didn't take the pit. what happened to the woman's instinct? she was going to homebirth with me! we changed that with the pg complications, but did everything have to go out the window?

this was a highly experienced hippie chick midwife! i meditated, did audio pain free tapes, aromoatherapy. i needed the support. looking back, i came to the hospital too early, and instead of being told to go home and wait, she arrived to speed it all up.

it makes no difference now to harbor the regret, but i wonder if she needs to hear this? like a letter to her 16 1/2 months later would be in order?

for me, it's obvious. i gave in to fear and let my instincts go out the window. but i did try, and i didn't get that support. not when it mattered. i wasn't asking for pain killers. she kept offering it. kept saying it would help me relax and allow myself to dilate! she had to CONVINCE me. now what is wrong with this picture?

el, i understand your appreciation and thanks to your midwife. i think they are harder and harder to come by. and that it is f'd up to feel like you were *allowed* to have a natural birth.

okay, done ranting. i am done birthing, but if i were ever to change my mind, i think i'd go with the "free birth" idea.
mamakarata is offline  
#71 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
PLEEEEEAAAASSSEE? I think "Birth" deserves another week. What do ya think? There is a lot of sharing going on and I personally want to hear more from anyone that wants to share, rant, or whatever.

Thanks, Mamakarata for sharing your insights. I'm sorry you had some regrets on the last birth. But maybe we can use your story to help us stay true to ourselves somehow next time. I think writing a letter to your mw would be totally appropriate. It may save another person from having the same experience.
Curly Locks is offline  
#72 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 04:16 PM
 
Megs Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 2,808
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, let's stay here another week...

Analisa, Mama to Meg 12/12/01, Patrick 12/24/03, Catherine 12/24/03, Ben 2/26/06
Megs Mom is offline  
#73 of 250 Old 04-06-2003, 11:52 PM
 
momcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: state of grace
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Fragmented thoughts, quickly:

Another week sounds great to me, too.

Also loved Spiritual Midwifery!

I agree - you should write a letter to your mw about your experience - she will take it the right way if she is the "hippie mama" you mentioned.

Let me know, El, when that house goes up for sale!

Keep up the great posts, friends!
momcat is offline  
#74 of 250 Old 04-07-2003, 12:00 AM
 
Breathe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 1,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yes, let's stay here another week -- lots of good processing going on!

mamak -- absolutely write that letter! even if you don't send it, or she doesn't take it seriously, it will help YOU.
Breathe is offline  
#75 of 250 Old 04-07-2003, 01:17 PM
 
mamakarata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sonoma County, California
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
well after writing that post to you guys, i finally allowed myself to cry about the regrets. before, i could cry about the labor and the trauma i felt from it, but i wouldn't allow myself to feel that disappointment in my midwife. maybe like admitting defeat? b/c i had so many people unsure of my even having a midwife instead of an ob- who am i going to cry to about my poor choice?

and the answer became simple- you guys! (smiles)

but the letter is still brewing in my head. thanks guys!

cl- how is magical child for you? some time back on mdc, we attempted a book club on it, and it fell to pieces. the book was not an easy read for me, nevertheless it was interesting. just curious. it has a pretty good segment on the gentle birthing idea as well.

btw, your post about feeling the regret and sadness was also part of why i felt safe to share my regrets. not so much that misery loves company, but that i realized even going at it a 2nd time around, i still didn't get what i needed. and i realized it is more a life lesson for me than i thought.

i was thinking how i don't want to ask for help the way i should, that it actually compromised my ability to research properly the right kind of midwife. b/c in my mind i was going at it all myself. again thinking about el's words, i think my lesson was that i needed to really *know* that i needed help, and to ask specifically for that help. not just assume my normal position of "i can do this myself "as if the midwife is just periphreal.

i think a midwife can be periphreal, but she really should adapt to the wants of the birthing mother- if she's feeling weak or asking for drugs, she would encourage her on how well she is already doing! but not pushing drugs!

mamabutterfly - you said your midwife was telling you that you were amazing. i loved it. and reading your story, i thought the same thing! you and so many others here sounded so connected to your bodies. so inspiring.

right on ladies. thanks again.

i dunno- still processing.

i agree. i need another week. hell, 16 1/2 months later and i am just scratching the surface!
mamakarata is offline  
#76 of 250 Old 04-07-2003, 01:31 PM
 
Breathe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 1,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey mamak, sorry my last post was a little abrupt -- got called away for bedtime duty.

I just wanted to acknowledge how brave you are for doing this processing. I can *totally* see why you have resisted having regrets about your m/w. That was classic cognitive dissonance . . . you had worked hard to convince everyone around you that you had made the right choice, so when she turned out not to be, you were pretty much stuck either eating your true feelings, or admitting to the doubters that something wasn't quite right.

I think that SO, SO many of us who have chosen these alternative paths get stuck in this same lonely place . . . I convince my mom that my naturopath is WORTH paying out of my own pocket, yet when all she does is throw herbs at me, I feel like really she's no better than an MD, and yet, I can't tell my mom . . . and we've referred to it here before, but co-sleeping is a classic one -- we advocate like HELL to anyone who will listen that babies should sleep with their mamas, but when they still are waking every two hours at 18 mos old, it feels like a dirty little secret, cause we can't tell anyone for fear of reinforcing all their doubts.

So all of this is to say how impressed I am that you (and others here) are opening yourself up and making yourself vulnerable all over again by digging around in these feelings and thoughts. I feel these amazing healing vibes buzzing out of everyone's posts! (And by the way, *I* would like to write a letter to your m/w -- I felt so angry by her lack of care and sensitivity and MIDWIFENESS -- but that's my little rescue fantasy. : Just so you know I got your back!)
Breathe is offline  
#77 of 250 Old 04-07-2003, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It has been an interesting week at my place. Ds is getting 3 molars...ouch, it is cold and snowy here, and other stuff too. But really this birth stuff is the highlight for me. I'm so thankful that you all agree we need more time to reflect on this important topic, "Birth."


I read a mother's journey to "free birth" yesterday online, which took me most of the day between taking care of duties at home. It made me realize that no matter how together we think we have it or how much we plan our births stuff "could" still happen. Here is a quote from the journey I read:
Quote:
*Know now that you can learn all there is to know about birth, but it may come to pass where you are left solely to your intution and that must be your guide*
Unfortunately from the time we are born we are not taught/shown/allowed to follow our intuition. We are taught to trust the professionals or adults that know better than we do. And when they let us down we feel guilty, ashamed, and angry. And someone else here mentioned this too, plus it's in "EB", that when we get stuck in this cloud of guilt/shame/anger it keeps us from enjoying the present moment since we are mentally stuck in the past. I'm not sure how to get through a lot of my own feelings either other than to acknowledge them and move on. Also, I think that if I can go on to have a more gentle and loving and less traumatic/invasive birth next time it will release me from some of my feelings and empower me. I am sorry for those that wont have that chance (Mamak). If I was/am unable to have another child or have a miscarriage/stillbirth I think I will be devasted.

A lot of the inner work I am doing is to try and get myself back. I want to feel "whole," trust my instincts, and know what is best for me instead of looking to others to know what is best for me. kwim?

After I realized (through my own research and inner work last year) how frustrated I was with my OB/family doc for all the things I felt went wrong (painful episotomy/tear which hurt for months and when I cough I leak urine now, not being able to hold my son for two hours, for the chaos during the birth, her lack of compassion on me, etc.) I REALLY wanted to write her a letter when we switched to a midwife clinic. In fact I did write a short letter and I ended up throwing it away and wrote a more generic letter that I mailed. It made me feel better to allow myself to be angry at her.



Curly Locks is offline  
#78 of 250 Old 04-07-2003, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mamak, that is interesting about "The Magical Child." I am finding it a fascinating book. A lot of research has gone into it from around the world and I love the bonding and birth chapters too. Especially when infants and parenting in our culture is compared to third world cultures. I'm sorry the book club for that fell apart. I did not know that the MC the book you were refering to months ago when you PM'd me.

Well ds is napping and dh went to the store. I have a few minutes to myself to open a book and relax some more.

(us hugging the baby, you as a baby or a baby in the belly, in you and may the sun shine on us and the earth so the flowers can bloom...and may our inner selves flower as well. Corny but hey, that's me. )
Curly Locks is offline  
#79 of 250 Old 04-07-2003, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ooops! I posted the same thing twice. : Delete...delete...

I'll be corny here too...
Curly Locks is offline  
#80 of 250 Old 04-07-2003, 08:43 PM
 
Iguanavere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wish I could respond to each one, but we are crisis parenting right now, so I am trying to limit my time on the "puter" so that i can try and keep my life in some sort of order - it's a long story...

Wanted to add about birth regrets:

With ds's birth, I read all the books, chose the "right" midwife and still didn'te get the experience that i had expected. Part of that is because I was trying to "birth" the way I had read about, but the real experience didn't match up to that expectation. Kind of like when you read Wizard of Oz, then see the movie. It ain't the same.

Anyway, I still had a great birth, but with DD, I decided I needed to work on a more emotional experience, something a little more personal.

I started reading unassited websites, because a friend told me that the thing that helped her, was to realize that she was doing the birthing - the midwife wasn't, she was - she needed to depend on herself, listen to herself.

Once I took ownership for my birth experience, did some birth art, I was able to really get into labor - and I had an amazing experience with DD.

Did that make sense? Like I said, we are in crisis over here - so think happy thoughts!
Iguanavere is offline  
#81 of 250 Old 04-07-2003, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Iguanavere~Sending you loving vibes.

T Doing some inner work here...ran across something I want to pass on about dealing with fears in general which in turn is supposed to help you during birth. It is from a website article written by Leigh Dick-Read called "Achieving Natural Childbirth." If you open the link the quote below is from "Lifting the Shroud" which is near the end.

Quote:
1. First we must learn how to feel our physical and emotional sensations.[xiv] We know how this can be done therapeutically. In the future we will all be able to help each other to do this with trust and love communally and largely avoid the need for professional psychotherapists.
From the same link above under "Making it Happen."
Quote:
6. Self-Help in isolation is too difficult for most of us. Mutual Self-Help can enable most, if not all, of us to find our own unique freedom and happiness. The people we associate with need to be also striving to clear their own fears, conscious and suppressed, and willing to help others to do the same.
I guess our little group here is "Making it Happen." Cuz, heck, you all have helped me learn so much about myself in such a short period of time. And I think the reason those of us that are still here are here because we are getting something out of this "Mutual Self-Help." Sorry for all the non-EB quotes. : I hope you are not feeling overwhelmed by all these links. If they dont seem to apply to you just :ignore (ignore) them.
Curly Locks is offline  
#82 of 250 Old 04-08-2003, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
After this post I plan on purchasing a notebook to journal some of these thought processes. Last night after reading the "Magical Child" I thought I was going to have a mental breakdown. I'm at the part in the book that is comparing bahaviors/intelligence in newborns and infants born in hospitals of technological cultures to non-tech cultures during the first seconds of life to six months. If you have read the book and had a hospital birth you will understand. For instance my ds had his umbilcal cord cut immediately, which I didnt know until last night when I asked dh about it. I thought it was cut like 10 minutes later by dh. But he told me when he cut it, it was a second time. The doc did it first after he was out of the birth canal. I was so out of it in the hospital. From the research that has been done from many people it is now known that this cutting can cause oxygen deprivation and brain damage until the lungs fill with air which takes longer for babies that have had a traumatic birth. And the book talks about the colic cry which is actually from all the stress hormones and shock the newborn is in. My poor ds cried for at least the first week. Well if you ever read the book you can guess the other reasons why I feel I need to process these feelings I am experiencing. I'm feeling even more frustrated than before at my OB.

Here's a quote from the "Magical Child" that makes a lot of sense to me. This is what the mother in a hospital that has just given birth with interventions/meds/episiotomy etc. is feeling:
Quote:
She herself, somewhere in her daze, feels that is was all wrong. Something magnificent, earth shaking, universal, godly, numinous, near mystical was supposed to happen and did not. She wants her baby, and all she gets sharp commands and reprimands.
After the birth of my son I was not sure why I was feeling this way. Now I see that it is not normal or natural to go thru what ds and I went thru. And in addition we had to pay to endure such criminal acts and for me to be mutilated by my doctor (episiotomy). We are still paying too.
Curly Locks is offline  
#83 of 250 Old 04-08-2003, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mamakarata~I can see I will be processing my feelings the rest of my life and I am waiting to see what the effects will be on ds for what he went through. I'm thankful to know that it's "more than misery likes company." Thanks everyone for enduring my thoughts here. I promise to journal and try to get some of this junk processed away from our discussion.

Here's a quote from "EB"...last few sentences from "Birth."
Quote:
As we give birth, the power and immediacy with which we are pulled into the present moment and are forced to let go our preconceptions puts us in touch with the essence of mindfulness practice. In giving birth to our babies, we may find that we give birth to new posssibilities within ourselves.
This is very true to my situation!!!

Gotta go tend to my little munchkin now....
Curly Locks is offline  
#84 of 250 Old 04-08-2003, 03:07 PM
 
mamabutterfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Well, that's me trying to say Wow and way to go for all of the innder work and thoughtfulness that is going on in each of our lives. What fortunate children you have that their mamas work so hard to be intentional and reflective about really really hard emotions and are trying not to stuff them. This is a difficult topic because there are so many layers of memory/regret/longing. It is hard to think anything could have been done "better" because we love our children so deeply and fiercely and I think like El said it is hard to "admit" regrets when we are so used to defending our "out there" positions.

MamaK that is really important work you are doing, taking some time with the pain & regret. I realized when I read your response to me that I must have sounded like I thought I had the perfect birth. I really don't feel that, actually -- at least, I don't think I *did* anything special but more that I realize that my "natural" birth happened because that was what my midwife was supportive of. Had *I* been given any alternative "ways out" of what I was going through, I am pretty certain I would have accepted them.

There was a lot I didn't know at the time and I "accepted" their judgement on everything. It happens that even in retrospect I am content with a lot of those decisions. But for instance what Heather raises about the cord being cut right away -- because she wasn't breathing well, this happened to dd, in order to bring her to the oxygen tank. But I happen to know that oxygen was on wheels and only 5 feet from our bed. Would it have been impossible to do that while she was on my stomach still?
Just to say it's easy to wonder about all of these what-ifs. And it is really hard to talk about regrets, when we know that the birth of a baby is always something to be celebrated. Then,too, the birth is followed by a plunge into the depths of the newborn experience, with all its joys & challenges, and it's no wonder that we are just now able to step back and think/feel about all of this, months or years later...

CL that is some really powerful work you are doing, and I just really want to affirm all of this effort you are making. DS (and dh for that matter) are going to beneift so much from the whole and centered mama you *are* and are becoming through all of this.

Iguanavere - Sending you loving vibes from here through the crisis times... Hang in there, honey.

peace to all, anne

teapot2.GIF Mama to my sweet girls: notes.gif (2/02) and energy.gif (2/08) and brokenheart.gif 3/11 and now belly.gif  EDD 5/24/14
mamabutterfly is offline  
#85 of 250 Old 04-08-2003, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by mamabutterfly
[BJust to say it's easy to wonder about all of these what-ifs. And it is really hard to talk about regrets, when we know that the birth of a baby is always something to be celebrated. Then,too, the birth is followed by a plunge into the depths of the newborn experience, with all its joys & challenges, and it's no wonder that we are just now able to step back and think/feel about all of this, months or years later... [/B]
Thanks so much for your words of wisdom, Anne. I really needed them at this moment. Feeling some deep regrets about choices I made, including circing ds. A homebirth is looking real good next time....someone would have to pry my son from my cold dead hands b4 they could circ another babe of mine. Another choice we made that was not researched or well thought out. Didnt think it was a big deal at the time.

Off to try to mediate and take a break from my inner work. It is draining me. I'm not sure what to think about Sophie and the oxygen tank either. :
Curly Locks is offline  
#86 of 250 Old 04-09-2003, 01:35 AM
 
mamakarata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sonoma County, California
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Breathe
(And by the way, *I* would like to write a letter to your m/w -- I felt so angry by her lack of care and sensitivity and MIDWIFENESS -- but that's my little rescue fantasy. : Just so you know I got your back!)
awww- now you got me all weepy again! this has been such a excellent chapter to go through with you guys.

CL- just curious- did your m/w respond to your letter you did finally send?

IG- birth art- what a cool concept. and hang in there!

MB- what you say makes a lot of sense -with all the newborn and adjustment frenzy, it is hard to finally get around to processing this.

it's important for me to remember we can "what if" ourselves to death but to realize how i put myself into the very situation i didn't want, i feel empowered and less a victim. as CL quoted earlier, those regrets may seperate us from the moment. but then unchecked, there would be no insight gained. i feel much better.

once again, i am amazed at the progress and processing we have all seemed to have gone through together. wouldn't it be cool to actually all meet one day?
mamakarata is offline  
#87 of 250 Old 04-09-2003, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just real quick, waiting for ds to poop.

Mamak~No, she never wrote back. She did send our records to the new clinic though. But the note I mailed was very vague and just asked for our records to be sent to this other clinic. It would have been nice of her to call but I'm sure she had about 10 clients to see that day, money talks.

Yes, I am done what-ifing for now. This week I am going to try to focus on some other issues, like fertility awareness for birth control reasons and family planning. Dh is really exicted about it too. But I really have appreciated the sounding board here. It has helped me release some anger! I was on a walk yesterday and to sort some of my feelings out I found myself talking to you all in my head. Am I crazy???

It is too bad we are so spread out. Deciding on where to meet would be a huge issue. Especially since my choice would be something goofy like a deserted island...so there wouldnt be a lot of distractions like site seeing, TVs, phones, laptops, shopping, eating out....heehee. We'd just need some fishing poles, and a lot of matches, and wood, and pots and pans. What a weird vision. But hey, I've traveled enough with dh to know that no matter how hard you try to have a relaxing time there are too many distractions.

Gotta go now... Dirty dipe time.
Curly Locks is offline  
#88 of 250 Old 04-10-2003, 12:10 AM
 
mamabutterfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
T Sorry, CL, but I have to know:

Did ds *really* have that poop or was that a story so you could use your new favorite emoticon?

:LOL

mb

teapot2.GIF Mama to my sweet girls: notes.gif (2/02) and energy.gif (2/08) and brokenheart.gif 3/11 and now belly.gif  EDD 5/24/14
mamabutterfly is offline  
#89 of 250 Old 04-10-2003, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
Curly Locks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the moment (hopefully)
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Me, fib to use an emoticon? : I would never.... O.k. so I would, fib to use an emoticon. But seriously, when I got off to change his diaper it was just peepee. But he pooped right after I changed him. No kidding!

Where was this one when he was puking on Monday??? :Puke


And BTW, I laugh like a hyena...

MDC rocks!!! Where's a cheers emoticon???

Curly Locks is offline  
#90 of 250 Old 04-10-2003, 03:51 PM
 
Breathe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 1,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Settle down, young Heather. You are getting out of HAND with this emoticon habit! (I would place my own little one here, but alas, I am emoticon-challenged and cannot find one suitable!)

Oh, and re: your leaking problem . . . Just know that may not have anything to do with the episiotomy. I won't name any names, but let's just say I've HEARD of women who had natural births with no tears who 18 mos later have to cross their legs TIGHTLY every time they sneeze, laugh hard, or even THINK about peeing. Everyone in these "hypothetical" women's families knows not to make them laugh too hard bc they have serious bladder control issues, even at the age of 32!

I wonder why these women don't do their Kegels?!?!
Breathe is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off