Severus Snape: Friend or Foe? - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Severus Snape: Friend or Foe?
Friend. Dumbledore's never wrong. 212 79.40%
Foe. Snape's tricked Dumbledore. 19 7.12%
Not decided yet 36 13.48%
Voters: 267. You may not vote on this poll

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#151 of 170 Old 07-13-2007, 08:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathirynne View Post
Re-read the chapter entitled "Spinner's End" in Half-Blood Prince.
I will but what about it?

Actually, I need to read the Half Blood Prince over again before starting the next book.

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#152 of 170 Old 07-13-2007, 09:13 AM
 
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But isn't Bellatrix related to Narcissa? Cuz if so then Snape wouldn't have been able to be affectionate at all because of Bellatrix, who I think was the one annoying him
Bellatrix is Narcissa's sister.

And I totally agree with the PP that Snape only made the vow because he was backed into a corner. Also, I think as far as Snape being annoyed with the sisters- I take that he was annoyed with Bellatrix for questioning him and with Narcissa for coming across as such a weak person.
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#153 of 170 Old 07-13-2007, 09:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
Interesting theory about SS calling Lilly a mudblood because he was already jealous of James. I thought perhaps that Severus called her that because he hadn't yet fallen in love with or befriended her. They may never have gotten to know each other before 6th year when the Potions classes were smaller.
My theory on the Severus calling Lily a mudblood is just that he was reacting the way almost any teen aged boy would in that kind of situation.

He was being cruelly humiliated, by people he hated, for no reason other than it amused them to do so. The girl he had a crush on felt the need to come to his defense, further humiliating him. Since he felt like he couldn't lash out at James and Sirius without being strung up again, he lashed out at her. He was mad at her, because he felt like she had brought his manhood into question. What teen aged boy would want to be rescued by the girl he's in love with? Egos are so fragile at that age.
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#154 of 170 Old 07-13-2007, 11:30 AM
 
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Yeah,that's what I thought too, that he was just embarrassed. I don't think Snape is cruel. Crouch when he showed Neville the Cruciatus curse...that was cruel.

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#155 of 170 Old 07-13-2007, 12:10 PM
 
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After re reading HBP and some essays on mugglenet I think actually I will vote for him being on the good side, although obviously he has issues. I think anyway JK Rowling has too much invested in the books in the power of love and compassion to make him be Voldemort's man, even if there is a lot of ambiguity otherwise.
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#156 of 170 Old 07-13-2007, 12:42 PM
 
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Snape = Friend

One more reason, in addition to the PPs: During the graveyard scene following the triwizard tournement, Voldemort explains a gap in the circle of deatheaters by saying that one of them has left him forever. I assume he is talking about Snape (although it could be the Black brother).

Dumbledoe = dead, but . .
in the wizarding world dead isn't all dead - dead people appear as ghosts, in photos, talk from portraits, etc. Although Dumbedoe is dead, I think he will continue to communicate with the OoP. Among the same lines, I think Harry will die, and will finally be reunited with his parents and paternal-grandparents and godfather - like Dumbledore said in book 1, to the well-organized mind, death is but the next adventure (or something to that effect, I am working from memory here).

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#157 of 170 Old 07-13-2007, 04:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
LOL. Well, considering we're talking about *fantasy* here, and not choosing a relationship IRL, i definitely will stick to misunderstood, tortured, tormented Snape, with his deep dark secrets, and his slickly oiled hair, his black cloak and his sarcasm. I wasnt thinking "dating" i was thinking passion...push a couple desks together down in the dungeon, throw the cauldrons on the floor...nevermind, i think thats for another site altogether.
OK, that makes sense. I could get into that.

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#158 of 170 Old 07-13-2007, 05:48 PM
 
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Here are my thoughts on Snape.

I think he had a difficult adolescence in which he was teased, bullied and tormented by many of the students at Hogwarts, not the least of whom was Harry's father and his friends. He was abused at home. He generally had a rough go of it. As a result, he found the dark side very alluring. He saw it as a way to gain power so that he might come out ahead of his 'enemies' and be able to exact revenge, or at the very least 'get even'.

With the death of Lily, he came to realize that Voldemort was interested in Voldemort alone. No one was safe if they stood in his way, or were perceived as such. This caused him to run to Dumbledore to seek asylum. I suspect there might be an unbreakable vow here, though I'm not sure of the content... though I suspect that Dumbledore vowed to never tell anyone of it. Most likely because Snape didn't want anyone (read Harry) to know that he loved Lily, and he didn't want people to know that he was indirectly responsible for the Potter's murders.

I think that Dumbledore planed it so that Snape would kill him. Perhaps not the exact circumstances, but at least the action. I can not imagine Dumbledore pleading for his life, so I honestly doubt that's what he was pleading with Snape for.

So that's about it. Snape, not exactly 'good', not exactly 'bad', somewhere in between, but definitely on the side of the Order.
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#159 of 170 Old 07-13-2007, 06:47 PM
 
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I think that Dumbledore planed it so that Snape would kill him. Perhaps not the exact circumstances, but at least the action. I can not imagine Dumbledore pleading for his life, so I honestly doubt that's what he was pleading with Snape for.

So that's about it. Snape, not exactly 'good', not exactly 'bad', somewhere in between, but definitely on the side of the Order.
I pretty much agree, I have a harder time believing Dumbledore would beg for his life than I do believing Snape is a horrid person.

The "please" thing...I just don't see it, unless he meant something completely different like "Please Severus, could you go and get me some mead after you slaughter these people? I just drank nasty potion and it has a fowl aftertaste"

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#160 of 170 Old 07-14-2007, 12:20 AM
 
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I pretty much agree, I have a harder time believing Dumbledore would beg for his life than I do believing Snape is a horrid person.

The "please" thing...I just don't see it, unless he meant something completely different like "Please Severus, could you go and get me some mead after you slaughter these people? I just drank nasty potion and it has a fowl aftertaste"
I totally agree- JKR made a point to mention that Dumbledore's ton changed as sono as he started speaking to Snape. Prior to that, he was speaking to the others in a calm manner, then it changed as soon as he saw Snape. I just don't see DD begging for his life as much as asking Snape to do something that he (DD) knew was going to be extremely hard emotionally for Snape.
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#161 of 170 Old 07-14-2007, 02:07 AM
 
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Okay, just finished The Half-Blood Prince and here are some thoughts.

If Snape really was a bad to the bone, major Death Eater...he would have

1. Killed Flitwick and not just have stunned him.

2. Killed Hermione and Luna

3. INSISTED that Malfoy kill Dumbledore. He would have told him "You can do it! Rah, rah, rah!"

4. Killed Hagrid on the way while he had the chance.

Killing Hermione OR Hagrid would have torn Harry apart, and Snape would know that. If he truly is bad, he would have done those things I think...but he didn't.

And I so agree that Dumbledore's change from calm and cool, to pleading with Snape was all about knowing he had to convince Snape to do something terribly difficult, but necessary. Snape HAD to kill Dumbledore, and it made him ( Snape) ANGRY.

Hopefully, by this time next week, I will have book 7 and be READING IT!

Of course it will be about how love and the people we love are the best magic in the world. Isn't that the point?

The more I think about it, I just can't see her knocking Harry off...

And maybe Neville won't die in Harry's place, but Neville WILL kill Voldemort?

There was a lot of talk about the prophecy and still the matter of choice came up, and how those choices shaped present events and would shape future events.

I am trying really hard to get around that whole "Harry's story will come to a conclusive end" thing. Maybe that could just mean...he doesn't die, he just gets married to Ginny, has a bunch of kids and what else is there to say? :

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#162 of 170 Old 07-14-2007, 02:11 AM
 
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I don't know. Crikies! Now I need to go back and reread the end of the last book.

I want to think he is good. He is just angry and bitter from being bullied by Harry's father ey?

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#163 of 170 Old 07-14-2007, 01:41 PM
 
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I don't think James was the only one who picked on Snivellus--I mean Severus. He seems like kind of the outcast, so I imagine it wasn't just James who did it. Malfoy always is on Harry, but there's still others throughout his years at Hogwarts that have been nasty to him. It's just that Malfoy is his main enemy. I think that's how it was with Severus.

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#164 of 170 Old 07-14-2007, 10:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tinybutterfly View Post
Hopefully, by this time next week, I will have book 7 and be READING IT!
By this time next week- I will be done with the book. (I hope) But you definitely touched on a lot of things about Snape and the ending of HBP that I didn't even think about. I just thinking that, to me, the overall tone of that last part with Snape- he just has to be on the side of the Order.
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#165 of 170 Old 07-15-2007, 02:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tinybutterfly View Post
Okay, just finished The Half-Blood Prince and here are some thoughts.

If Snape really was a bad to the bone, major Death Eater...he would have

1. Killed Flitwick and not just have stunned him.

2. Killed Hermione and Luna

3. INSISTED that Malfoy kill Dumbledore. He would have told him "You can do it! Rah, rah, rah!"

4. Killed Hagrid on the way while he had the chance.
Not only didn't he kill Flitwick, Hermione, and Luna, but he made sure to keep all 3 of them out of harm's way! He didn't let the 3 of them follow him into the battle scene, but made sure they all stayed safely in his office.

I think he and Draco didn't apparate to the same place as the other DEs. Remember Draco didn't take his apparition test yet- he and Harry were both in Slughorn's class the day Ron and Hermione were taking the test. This means that Draco had to do side-along apparition with Snape and went wherever Snape led him. The other DE's might have assumed they would apparate to LV along with them, then wonder why they never showed up.

Either Draco and Snape are on the run from both sides, or they apparated to Order headquarters.

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#166 of 170 Old 07-15-2007, 12:20 PM
 
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Hmm, good points. I think you have all convinced me to believe Snape isn't evil, at least. I just finished my re-read of the books and was quite sure after reading HBP again that Snape is just evil. But I think that's how JKR designed it. The points everyone has made here have made me rethink my feelings on it. I do hope he turns out on the side of the Order, and it sure seems like he will!
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#167 of 170 Old 07-15-2007, 12:22 PM
 
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Oh, and another related point I thought of is that once Snape had killed Dumbledore, if he truly was on Voldemort's side, he would no longer have any need to keep up the charade of playing Dumbledore's spy. He could have been just as evil as he always wanted to be. But he didn't.
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#168 of 170 Old 07-15-2007, 01:32 PM
 
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While I think LV will be glad that Dumbledore is dead, I think he'll be furious that Snape did the job for Draco.

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#169 of 170 Old 07-15-2007, 01:52 PM
 
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Oh another thing I've been thinking about Snape. I think that the reason Dumbledore wouldn't give him the DADA job was because he knew about the curse, and wanted Snape at Hogwarts for when Voldemort returned. He knew that Snape would make a convenient spy.
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#170 of 170 Old 07-15-2007, 02:13 PM
 
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I think Snape plays both sides and this weakness is his very interesting character flaw. He's terribly wounded from growning up and I think he's found healing and a place in life with Dummbledore's help but also feel he's found validation for his anger through LV. Utimately, he is the MOST loyal to whomever is in power.
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