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#61 of 278 Old 07-02-2003, 02:41 AM
 
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It helps to have a mental image of Alan Rickman in my head
I am sure it does...

Oh, you mean with reading the book..:LOL

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#62 of 278 Old 07-02-2003, 02:54 AM
 
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ahhhhhhh....I've finished.

edited stuff out because I'd forgotten how the chamber and the archway worked together when I first posted this...of course, I was finishing the book today in between getting drinks, refereeing arguments and the like, so it's certainly possible that I missed some things. :

I think both Dumbledore and Harry bear "responsibility", if you will, for Sirius' death. Ultimately, Bellatrix bears responsibility, and Sirius certainly made the choice to go there.

I thought it would be Remus who died. I guess *hoped* is a better word, although I had been told by a friend that it was someone important to Harry. I really didn't think she'd kill Sirius off, and I would have been sad for Remus as well, but less sad for Harry in the end.

Poor Severus (don't you love all her words?! I love looking at the roots--like the Mirror of Erised, that just cracks me up!), I was so sickened by his worst memory, so grossed out by James, I think particularly because there are sooooo many people like that! I think it is up to Harry to make the first move toward a conciliation between the two of them now, it was so invasive to dive into the pensieve (although I'd have done it too)...he really owes him an apology, and might want to throw in a "sorry my dad was such a dick in school" while he's at it.

this was such a rich book, the best one yet I think. And I wasn't taken back by Harry's attitude at all. I guess I really identify with all that teen-age angst. Who wasn't a raging ball of hormonal anger at some point during puberty? And isn't her daughter about that age right now? :LOL

Well, back to my book of the month book....and then back to the rest of the series.
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#63 of 278 Old 07-03-2003, 05:50 PM
 
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I agree Harry should apologize. He completely violated Severus' trust, Snape was truly trying to help him this time and Harry really screwed up.

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#64 of 278 Old 07-06-2003, 07:58 PM
 
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I have a few thoughts since I've finished the book. First, I thought for sure Ron or Neville was going to die. I just couldn't see it being one of the adults...

I thought Harry seemed... hormonal, or very adolescent, this book. Grumpier, going through growing pains. Of course he had good reasons to be angry.

I think, maybe you will all think I'm a nut case, that Snape is actually going to be a key character in the coming books, and turn out to be a good guy- like maybe he has had to keep his distance from Harry for some reason so he made Harry intentionally dislike him... like maybe he'd even be a relative?

So what's up with Hermonie DYING in the 6th book? No no no!!! Where did this information come from!??

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#65 of 278 Old 07-06-2003, 09:52 PM
 
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I haven't heard that wild rumour regarding Hermione..... Hmm..I'd hate to think she'd kill off one of 2 strong (only?) female characters. Not to mention I just plain love the girl..LOL
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#66 of 278 Old 07-07-2003, 12:05 PM
 
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I think, maybe you will all think I'm a nut case, that Snape is actually going to be a key character in the coming books, and turn out to be a good guy- like maybe he has had to keep his distance from Harry for some reason so he made Harry intentionally dislike him... like maybe he'd even be a relative?
Oh yeah! I hadn't thought of that, but I can totally see something along those lines happening. Wahoo!
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#67 of 278 Old 07-07-2003, 02:47 PM
 
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I hope Snape snaps out of it! =)

After re-reading 3 and 4, I was able to understand Harry's hormonalness better. I'm (slowly this time) reading 5 again now and he's not upsetting me this time. I'd be angry too.

Someone asked if Harry should have any of the blame for Sirius's death. I'm sure he'll feel guilty, and I don't think he (Harry) behaved appropriately, but I think Sirius took his life into his own hands. Actually, I think Snape has some of the blame too. If he (Snape) hadn't been such a jerk about "putting his life on the line" while Sirius was "house cleaning," Sirius may have been less likely to take such a risk.
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#68 of 278 Old 07-07-2003, 11:15 PM
 
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I finally finished it too - was so afraid I'd read some review where the " who dies" was revealed (why the heck do reviewers do that stuff anyway?) Sirius' death wasn't a total suprise but I too was kind of expecting it to be Hagrid, though having him absent for awhile began to seem like a red herring. I'd thought maybe Dumbledore, or Lupin, were the likeliest contenders. Somehow I didn't think JKR would kill off a younger character this time, after all she'd done that with Cedric.

The death (murder, really) didn't pack as much of an emotional wallop as one might expect but that might have been intentional since the author is aware her primary audience is children. But as others of you have noted, Harry's reactions to this great loss were so difficult to read - my tears came in response to Harry's pain, rather than when Sirius died. Then again, like Emily Dickinson wrote "After great pain, a formal feeling comes," so it's not uncommon to be numb at first, is it? Geez, now I'm talking like Sirius was a real person - I guess to many of us he practically was!

I don't think Harry will die in the end. The one thing JKR has consistently demonstrated is her love for children. To kill off the hero of this series would be so cruel to kids - maybe the books have got a huge adult readership, but it's children for whom they are targeted, and I just can't believe she'd go that route. I worried for most of HP4 that Ron was going to die, then read something in Newsweek where JKR said "I could never kill off Harry's best friend!" I sure hope she remembers that, and feels the same about Hermione.

The Petunia twist was neat, though I will admit to a bit of discomfort with the "blood is thicker than water" implication, but that's because as an adoptive mom it's a vulnerable issue for me, and I know it's not in most people's frame of reference. Besides, I liked the explanation for why Harry has been forced to stay with those awful people! Can't help but ponder whether JKR actually decided to make the reason for it explicit due to the criticism she's gotten for allowing Harry to remain in an emotionally abusive situation, and if this was in her original outline or added later.

As for Snape and the revelations about his relationship with Harry's parents - did anyone else read the scene by the river and start wondering whether he was really Harry's father, not James? When Lily began defending Snape and expressing her disapproval of James' behavior, all of a sudden I got goosebumps as my mind went down a very odd path. Then I thought "nah, that would just be too Darth Vader" and besides, doesn't Harry look exactly like James, which is one reason why Snape hates him? But I have to admit for a few moments it sure seemed plausible.

It's so great to get to discuss this with people - thanks for sharing all the great thoughts!
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#69 of 278 Old 07-08-2003, 04:35 AM
 
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I don't think she would make Snape Harry's dad. That would indeed be strange.

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#70 of 278 Old 07-08-2003, 06:08 AM
 
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Lark... That's why I said somewhere around here... which thread who knows..... that Snape loved Lily. I don't think anything at all ever came of it but that would really be what it would take to make that memory as bad as possible. (I still question whether that could really possibly be his worst memory, but whatever...) And if he loved Lily from afar and reviled James... well, bad enough she marries him, has a child with him... okay. But then for the two of them to be martyred and enshrined for all wizarding history as heroes... unbearable. And now.. here is their son. The spitting image of the despised James but with her eyes... the greatest hero and most famous figure in the wizarding world. A daily torture. And ya don't get the impression Snape came from a place of being particularly charming to begin with.
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#71 of 278 Old 07-08-2003, 08:17 AM
 
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i thought in that scene "snape's worst memory" that snape said something nasty to lily, along the lines of "mudblood." she was muggle-born, and snape was in slytherin, so it stands to reason that he would be disdainful of her for that alone.
i thought it was sirius who had a little attraction going with lily. it seemed as though lily was caught looking at sirius once or twice in that chapter.
dammit, now i have to go re-read that chapter!
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#72 of 278 Old 07-08-2003, 10:47 AM
 
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Bu if Snap would be Harry's dad- well, isn't that a little... risque for a kid's book? I'm thinking JK would get a lot of critisism for that. But wow wouldn't that be huge??

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#73 of 278 Old 07-08-2003, 01:13 PM
 
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Kama, I bet you are so on target about what's eating Snape - how he must despise those perfect Potters, and he can't "do" anything about it - they're dead. So he wreaks his anger on poor Harry. I think it's good for Harry to start seeing his parents as having both positive and negative qualities - gives him more to identify with, and some relief from having to always live up to their example. Like hearing that James wasn't a prefect.

Heather and Abimommy, I don't really think Snape is Harry's Dad, but just for a few seconds I couldn't help but wonder if that's what she was intimating. Yeah, it would be awfully twisted. But there's got to be even more to the story - if that scene was his worst memory, then I doubt Harry has learned everything that went on yet. Now Elphaba, don't get me started down another thought path!
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#74 of 278 Old 07-08-2003, 02:36 PM
 
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I just have trouble believing THAT was Snapes worst memory. I mean, yes, things that happened during our adolescence are magnified by hormones and now by time, etc.... but come on! The guy was an inner circle Death Eater! And then he walked away from it! The WORST thing EVER in his life was THAT? I dunno. I think more to the point it was the memory he MOST wanted Harry not to see. Perhaps even to allow Harry to keep his ideas of James happy ones. OR.... he knew Potter would snoop and made a point of dropping it in the Pensieve right in front of him night after night to tempt him to look at it because he wanted Harry to see the REAL James. (He could easily have done the little chore with the pensieve a few minutes before Harry arrived... right?)
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#75 of 278 Old 07-10-2003, 06:24 PM
 
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Just a few things dh and I have discussed, now that I've finally finished (dh read it first)!
We noticed that JKR used a lot more British terms and slang in this book than in the others. I think the series started out more "American" to get a bigger audience, but now that everyone's reading the books, she's putting her own country's speech patterns into them more. There were even a few times when I wasn't quite sure what she was talking about, and had to figure it out by context.
Also, when we read #4, we commented that it seemed poorly edited because it was so rushed to press. There were a lot of converstions that went on without saying anything, etc. Well, #5 was even more rushed, but didn't have that un-edited feeling. Even though it's loooong, the pace keeps moving right along, without conversations or scenes that seem unnecessary. It's just that a lot of stuff happens.
One more thing... Someone here talked about over-explaining things that happened in the previous books, but #5 hardly did that at all. I remember being annoyed by that in the others, especially #2, but there were actually times during this one that I wished she HAD made more of a reference to things in the past because I've forgotten almost everything from #3 and 4! Guess I'd better start over from the beginning!
I think JKR deserves a lot of credit for her writing. Yeah, she may steal a little from literature, but who else do you know who can write in a way that makes both children and adults spellbound (no pun intended!)? The way she's created this whole world, complete with make-believe creatures and modes of transportation and names and places... it's just amazing. C'mon #6!
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#76 of 278 Old 07-10-2003, 08:08 PM
 
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I'm not sure anyone meant that she was 'stealing' in a negative sense by refering to the classical influence in her stories. I meant it strictly as a compliment.

I noticed a bit more 'Brit' in this book as well. I meant to research it. I know that for the first book, at least, and perhaps all the others as well there were seperately edited American 'translations'. They substituted 'sweater' for 'jumper' and such. I do seem to recall 'trainers' being used for 'sneakers' before though, so the sanitizing is not 100% anyway! I enjoy the 'Brit-isms' and hope to one day have all the books as she originally wrote them. Maybe a nice boxed set from Harrods about 20 years from now?
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#77 of 278 Old 07-10-2003, 09:30 PM
 
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I'm not sure anyone meant that she was 'stealing' in a negative sense by refering to the classical influence in her stories. I meant it strictly as a compliment.
Yeah, I didn't mean it in a negative way either. Reading what I wrote, I guess it sounds like that. I just meant that, yeah, all the ideas might not be totally her own, but she makes them her own, KWIM?
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#78 of 278 Old 07-11-2003, 02:24 AM
 
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Yup, they "translated" the book into "American" isn't that weird?? They didn't do it with this one and I like it with the Britishisms.

Oh, I didn't think you really thought he was Harry's dad. LOL...

She was asked if Snape had liked Lily during the interview at Albert hall and that was one of the questions she wouldn't answer...

I don't know if that means anything though..Rowling is tricky..

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#79 of 278 Old 07-11-2003, 04:43 PM
 
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That's why I was having troubles getting some of it! I speak american. =) I figured out trainers, but assumed jumper was more like an overall type of a dress. And what the heck is Mickey?

About Snape's worst memories, I think it was just some that he didn't want Harry to see. And there were more than one thread that he pulled out of his head; Harry on only saw one. Perhaps the others were "worse."

As to him liking Lilly, I still think he did, but didn't want to admit it. I think she defended him and it hurt his pride, so he struck out at her too. She was an easier target that James and crew.
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#80 of 278 Old 07-11-2003, 05:53 PM
 
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Mickey is to tease or ridicule.

I think Snape liked Lily also, although I think he probably was unhappy with that fact.

On relations of Harry, I don't think Snape and Harry are related, at least not very close. Most pure-bloods are related, so it is possible, but I would think it would be pretty distant. I hope we will continue finding out more about his family and will learn who all was in the Erised mirror. I think his father is a descendent of Godric Gryffindor and that's why he lived in Godric's Hollow. I also think that it's possible that Lily could have been related to Voldermort by the Riddle family. If not, then possibly James was related to him by Voldermort's mother. But that would leave James been related to Gryffindor and Slytherin, so that's why I think it's Lily.

Patronus means patron saint. There is a catholic Saint Godric that has something to do with a stag. Rowling knows her stuff. Someone pointed out that Flamel was a real person. I think the stag and Saint Godric is not a coincidence. I also think that Voldermort's connection to Harry has to be about something more than him being almost killed when the spell struck back on him.

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#81 of 278 Old 07-11-2003, 08:53 PM
 
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thanks for the info on the patronus madrone... wonder if anyone else's means anything (like hermione's otter...)
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#82 of 278 Old 07-11-2003, 09:07 PM
 
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Is there any proof in the books (not the movies) that James and Sirius were in Gryfindor? DH and I think it likely that they were Slytherins.

Also speaking of Britsh terms what are "plus fours" -- (from book 4)


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#83 of 278 Old 07-11-2003, 11:10 PM
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When Lily began defending Snape and expressing her disapproval of James' behavior, all of a sudden I got goosebumps as my mind went down a very odd path. Then I thought "nah, that would just be too Darth Vader" and besides, doesn't Harry look exactly like James, which is one reason why Snape hates him? But I have to admit for a few moments it sure seemed plausible.
I recall reading an interview with Rowling a couple years back in which she discussed her Christianity and, obliquely, the role of various archetypes in her work. Star Wars and the relationship between Darth Vader and Luke came up explicity. Though I do not think that Snape holds the "Darth Vader" role.

Whatever happened to James? Did I miss something there?
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#84 of 278 Old 07-11-2003, 11:42 PM
 
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Originally posted by Marlena

Whatever happened to James? Did I miss something there?
You mean ultimately? Voldemort killed him. Right before he killed Lily and tried to kill Harry.
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#85 of 278 Old 07-12-2003, 04:39 AM
 
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Rowling's favorite animal is the otter. She said so during an interview.

A jumper is a sweater. Instead of "Weasley sweater" it now says "Weasley jumper"

there are translations at this site..

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/strictly_british1.html

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#86 of 278 Old 07-12-2003, 03:40 PM
 
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Originally posted by rsps
[B]Is there any proof in the books (not the movies) that James and Sirius were in Gryfindor? DH and I think it likely that they were Slytherins.
[B]
So dh has also been theorizing about the Houses of James and Sirius. His main contention is that in Sorcerer's Stone, Ron states that not a single Wizard that's gone bad wasn't a Slytherin -- at this point of course Sirius is considered guilty of the betrayal of James & Lily and the murder of Peter. Not to mention not once has JKR mentioned their houses.

I've just always thought they were Gryffindor -- I think had Sirius followed in the footsteps of his family lineage, then he would have been Slytherin. James' character has always seemed more in line with Gryffindor (yes, I realize he was a jerk in Snape's memory, but most adolescents are). The flagrant rule violations, but the nobility as well.

DH has also brought up the fact that maybe Black & Potter were in different houses, but I just don't think they would have been as tight.... Of course, since JKR hasn't come out and said so no telling where they were placed (except, I doubt it was Hufflepuff) - I'm sure it will be quite interesting when it's revealed.
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#87 of 278 Old 07-12-2003, 04:35 PM
 
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Wasn't there a scene in the movie that showed Harry and Ron looking in a cabinet with memorabelia showing Harry's dad as a gryffindor quiddich player?

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#88 of 278 Old 07-12-2003, 06:09 PM
 
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Okay so I finished a while ago, and now I'm on book three...I started all over. It has been so cool to see the tie-ins and I've been better able to follow some of the subtleties.

Back on page 2 of this thread some were mentioning why doesn't Harry open up more? I pondered this for awhile and well, psychologically thinking, if you think about his home life with the Dursleys then it makes sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we learn about our feelings and the expression of our feelings from our families both directly and through modeling. His models have been awful! He's not allowed to speak his mind and constantly has to control his every emotion when he's there and given that he did this until he was 11 years old, well it will take a while to unlearn (no matter how great his friendships with Hermione and Ron are). So I think that JKR is actually been pretty consistent with his background to show him somewhat emotionally stunted. It will be interesting to see though that now he has a "new family" how this will develop and change.

Just my .02. I am really enjoying reading the different thoughts and views and am getting way more out of the book because of that.
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#89 of 278 Old 07-12-2003, 06:21 PM
 
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Originally posted by HeatherE
Wasn't there a scene in the movie that showed Harry and Ron looking in a cabinet with memorabelia showing Harry's dad as a gryffindor quiddich player?
I was thinking about that as well, but it doesn't say Gryffindor, it just shows that he was a seeker back in 1970. Have I watched it recently, nah
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#90 of 278 Old 07-12-2003, 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by kama'aina mama
You mean ultimately? Voldemort killed him. Right before he killed Lily and tried to kill Harry.
Yes, I know he was killed by Voldemort. But we always hear about the scene with Lily's death, and rarely that of James'. No matter; it's obvious from other bits of information that Voldemort can't be quite THAT well connected with Harry!
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