Matrix! - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-29-2003, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
sadie_sabot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: dystopia
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ready For the Matrix Revolutions!!!!

Anyone else going opening night(pending getting a sitter of course)?
sadie_sabot is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-29-2003, 03:36 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am so ready. I only saw Reloaded 3 times. When we rented it last week for the kids, I fell asleep. 3x was enough to get the point. It did drag in parts. I hope Revolution doesn't have that fault.

Un fortunately my dh was laid off a couple weeks ago and we have to stop spending money. I already forfeited School of Rock, Kill Bill and even Scary Movie 3 which looked good and only pg 13.

Gah. I hate missing out on new movies. I did rent Down With Love, which was cute. It's videos for us now, for a while.
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 10-30-2003, 07:26 PM
 
OhMel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can't wait! I bought Reloaded the day it came out on DVD and I'm just dying in anticipation for this one.
OhMel is offline  
Old 10-30-2003, 07:38 PM
 
minicooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Strathmore Alberta Temporarily
Posts: 647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i just bought the dvd for my hubby for his birthday

can't wait to watch it and then go see the third one!!!
minicooper is offline  
Old 10-30-2003, 08:15 PM
 
Aster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: offline
Posts: 1,182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i'm going to try to catch an afternoon matinee

Have you seen this? It links the release date of the Matrix movie with the harmonic concordance that's happening in early nov. Just scoll down a little bit and you'll see the matrix info... http://www.crystalinks.com/harmoniconcord.html
Aster is offline  
Old 10-31-2003, 12:17 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Huge spoiler here if you just can't wait...

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheM...57/preview.php
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 11-01-2003, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
sadie_sabot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: dystopia
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
woah! I'm going to just forget I read that...

Can't wait, can't wait! Our roommate and her girlfriend are babysitting, so we get to go with the same big group we went to Reloded with.
sadie_sabot is offline  
Old 11-05-2003, 09:45 AM
Banned
 
Marlena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
How sad. Anyone else read the reviews?:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...A1192-2003Nov4

Quote:
Neo, schmeo! In "The Matrix Revolutions," directors Andy and Larry Wachowski give up on character; instead, they try havoc and let slurp the dogs of war. The film is a soggy mess, essentially a loud, wild 100-minute battle movie bookended by an incomprehensible beginning and a laughable ending.

As a final act and summation of the brilliant "Matrix" and the not-so-brilliant "Matrix Reloaded," it's utterly inconsequential; as pure spectacle it's almost a hoot but only a little more entertaining, finally, than the Redskins.
http://movies2.nytimes.com/2003/11/0...MATR.html?8dpc

Quote:
"Reloaded" was certainly a lumpy, gaseous treatise of a movie, but viewers of "Revolutions" may find themselves looking back on it fondly. It was at least overstuffed with potentially interesting new characters, plot lines and make-believe metaphysical conundrums. In contrast "Revolutions," which has a roughly equivalent running time, feels padded. The battle for Zion goes on forever and seems designed to justify the picture's enormous military hardware budget. There is very little that is tantalizing or suspenseful. The feeling of revelation is gone, and many of the teasing implications of "Reloaded" have been abandoned.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...5/DD301414.DTL

Quote:
In "The Matrix Revolutions," the dismal final installment in the phenomenally successful science fiction series, humans engage in a fierce battle to save themselves from extinction by machines. If only filmmakers Larry and Andy Wachowski could have saved themselves from their own machines. Their computer-generated imagery goes from dazzling to deadening in action scenes that favor heavy, clanking weaponry over the martial-arts moves that thrilled viewers of "The Matrix" and "The Matrix Reloaded."
I mean, if the reviewers are looking back nostalgically on the Matrix: Reloaded, it can't be good.

The Globe liked it a little better, but the reviewer still wasn't convinced:

http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/arti...essiah_relief/

Quote:
Toward the end of "The Matrix Revolutions," writer-directors Larry and Andy Wachowski finally cave in to their messianic urges. The fuzzy religious aura that has always surrounded Keanu Reeves's dude avatar Neo hardens into overt symbolism, and the upshot is both ridiculous and entertainingly fruity. True believers will be reaching for the red pill, but it's still not quite enough to convert the heretics.
Marlena is offline  
Old 11-05-2003, 10:34 AM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here you can read all the reviews.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheM...tions-1127201/

Personally, I really like Reloaded. I bet I will like this one too. If the Brothers lost their nerve, and did not go far enough with the philosophizing/religion, that is too bad tho. Good thing I have studied most of the philosophies the themes are based on.

After all, even the Bible has glaring holes as well.
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 11-05-2003, 01:15 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here is one positive review. I included no spoilers in my excerpt.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/...=1&rid=1214259

Quote:
When The Matrix Reloaded was unleashed this past May (and made close to $300 million... ) it was on the receiving end of a decidedly mysterious backlash. In an effort to sell magazines and newspapers ... misinformed journalists almost immediately labeled the film a "disappointment" both critically and with fans. But only a cursory glance at the film's reviews (and receipts) disprove that statement.... Now comes the third and final chapter of the Matrix trilogy; let the backlash smear campaigns begin anew!

I'd love to know in what universe the two Matrix sequels are considered "disappointments". Sure, they're both laden with deep and ocassionally uncomfortable ruminations on free will and religion and other sorts of navel-gazing philos-O-phizing...but what's the alternative? Sci-fi freaks have been fed a galaxy full of garbage over the past several years and forgive me for admiring all three Matrix films while noticing that the video store shelves are absolutely laden with dungpiles...


Say what you will about The Matrix Revolutions, but you certainly cannot call it short on ideas or ambition...

Suffice to say that The Matrix Revolutions (much like its predecessors, only to a slighter lesser degree) is overstuffed with slick action set pieces, thought-provoking sci-fi mind-benders and cool characters .... If Parts 2 and 3 don't seem to measure up to the lofty groundwork laid in the original film, I suspect much everyone's relative "disappointment" in the sequels perhaps stems from unfair expectations.... (If The Matrix Reloaded didn't have those "boring" moments of self-reflection, it would end up being derided as "mindless action" - proof positive that filmmakers are often damned if they do and damned if they don't.)

If the film does slow down here and there and fall on a few of its own sloppy fumbles, the rough spots can perhaps be forgiven because, let's face it, there's a whole LOT of material to cover...The Matrix Revolutions is science fiction for grownups.
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 11-05-2003, 05:08 PM
 
OhMel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just got back. I liked it. It was not the first one, but it was better than the 2nd IMHO. The thing that bothered me in Reloaded was the whole heart massage thing -- just a bit too cheesy for my taste. Didn't feel the same about this one. A little predictable if anything.
OhMel is offline  
Old 11-05-2003, 05:50 PM
 
OhMel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Found this on Salon http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2...is/index.html. From last May but an interesting read anyway.
OhMel is offline  
Old 11-05-2003, 06:39 PM
 
ja mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: OR
Posts: 1,482
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't care what any of the reviews are I want to see it, in the theatre! We will go in a couple weeks though so it's not a packed house.
ja mama is offline  
Old 11-06-2003, 12:13 AM
 
OhMel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Our local cinema had 5 theaters dedicated to it. I played hookie and went to the 11:20 show this morning. Busy for that time, but probably only 25 people in the show I was in. I will probably go see it again. (I think it's only after the 3rd or 4th time through that I catch a lot of the more philosophical points.)
OhMel is offline  
Old 11-06-2003, 03:42 AM
 
hotmamacita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,977
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Good idea to wait a few weeks so that crowds die down. I can;t wait to see it. DH and I lve all the philosophical references, we get a kick out of them and how they are used.
hotmamacita is offline  
Old 11-06-2003, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
sadie_sabot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: dystopia
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had to go see it, I'm gad i did. But that doesn't mean I liked it. boring, cheesy philosophizing, and wow, way to much graphic violence. More graphic.

However. Naiobi, wowsa, good character, good acting. neo? .: I think he's an idiot savant.
sadie_sabot is offline  
Old 11-08-2003, 10:58 AM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
s_s, I have to say, I completely disagree with you and I am so glad!!!

I loved Matrix Revolutions. So did my dh, and my kids, ages 12, 15 and 17. Ds 12, said it was the best movie he ever saw.

I did not find the philosophizing/spirituality boring or cheesy. I found it moving and well-intergrated into the pace of the movie (better than in Reloaded).

There were lots of new characters doing heroic deeds to save their civilization. The new Oracle was great, her role was completely developed.

The action was almost overwhelmingly majestic. We could not speak when we came out of the theater for about 10 minutes.

I have also seen Anamatrix, and read a lot of spoilers, so I wasn't confused by events (well, not completely confused).


If you do not like a rippin'good sci-fi mind f--k (a la 2001 A Space Odyssey, only better), you will not care for this conclusion. If you prefer FX with no depth, maybe rent T3 when it comes out, or go see the next Star Wars. This, as the one reviewer put it, is sci-fi for grownups.

4 stars out of 4.
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 11-08-2003, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
sadie_sabot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: dystopia
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ok, maybe it wasn't all bad. As my housemate says, I'd need to see it again to more fully develope my critique.:LOL

I think, beyond the graphic violence which I am sensitive to, what irritated me was that there were a lot of leaps of logic to make that seemed too much. Maybe I should also check out the animatix, my housemates saw it and liked it.

(disclaimer: I also started the movie irritated by the 15 minutes of advertising!!!! not counting the previews! )
sadie_sabot is offline  
Old 11-09-2003, 11:19 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nobody else saw it? Everyone must be scared off by the bad reviews.
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 11-09-2003, 11:43 PM
 
deb_n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hubby and I saw it-he was dying to see it on IMAX but we could not get a ticket at same time as sitter-he will probably see it again next week on IMAX. I enjoyed it, but also just less excited about the violence, that really takes some of the fun out of it for me. It was pretty fun, hey, just getting out of the house with dh alone was fun, but I don't think I need to rush off and see it again. But I did like the development of the Oracle, and many other great characters, the conclusions were cool. We also thought we saw set up for future possibilities.

Deb
deb_n is offline  
Old 11-10-2003, 12:04 AM
 
weetzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,882
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wanted to second the "cheesy philosophizing" statement.

That is exactly what it felt like to me and DH. I thought there were many cliches--like the end--and it was just
Warning :: Spoiler Ahead! Highlight to read message!
too religious for me. I felt that it was very Christian, which I am not, and that turned me off.


I'm not sure if that had to be spoilered, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Oh--and I didnt see any fight scenes that I liked! I know that the violence can be overwhelming, but I usually like the effects. Not this time.
weetzie is offline  
Old 11-10-2003, 12:37 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No, I do not think you needed to spoiler it. Everybody knows the philosophy is based in Xtian views. But don't forget, it is also inclusive of gnosticism, and Buddhism. They even mentioned karma.

I guess if you (speaking generally) are the type of secular humanist who is made uncomfortlabe by any kind of religious ponderings, Matrix's views would be a bore, and seem cheesy?

What good movie of recent yrs had spirituality that wasn't cheesy? What good, popular movie, that is?

I admit to being a comparative mythology freak, so a sci fi movie that actually bothers to have a spiritual side is OK by me. Yes, the philosophical musings were semaphored, cryptic, and brief. As the reviewer said in the review I posted, if it had more (as Reoladed did), people would complain. If it had less, as in Rev, people will complain.

Then again, I liked AI and Eyes Wide Shut too, so I guess my standards are just different from the average American movie-goer? (Altho if it makes a couple mill, I guess I am not alone. Will all the people that go see it complain about it?)

Spoilers to follow

I thought the ending was brilliant. Neo and his second sight! (You might understand how he was seeing if you go rent Anamatrix).

Not to mention I appreciated all the strong female characters and the non-white race of most of the Zionists (and even a few of the programs (Seraph, the Oracle, the Indians in the subway). The bad guys were all white, heh.

I did wonder about Persephone. Did she even have one line? Maybe ended up on the editing room floor. And, maybe the white twins should have had a role in that scene too.
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 11-10-2003, 01:10 PM
 
weetzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,882
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Its not that I'm uncomfortable with religion, I just felt that the chrstianity was overpowering in a way that made the movie feel less thoughtful to me. I did see the buddhism, but am confused as to where the gnoticism (that a word? ) came in?
weetzie is offline  
Old 11-10-2003, 01:21 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
weetzie, this thread from back in May goes into the gnostic ideas in the Matrix world-view some...

http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sho...ghlight=matrix

Gnosticism (gnosis means knowing in Greek) is a religious concept shared by pagan Greeks and early Xtianity ca 30 BCE (+/-).

http://www.gnosis.org/

Scroll down to "What is Gnosticism?"
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 11-10-2003, 03:17 PM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A little exposition:

List taken from above website [brackets mine]:

The Gnostics posited an original spiritual unity that came to be split into a plurality [Real Life vs Matrix].

As a result of the precosmic division [battle of men and machines in Anamatrix] the universe was created. This was done by a leader possessing inferior spiritual powers and who often resembled the Old Testament Jehovah [called the Demiurge in classical gnosticism, the Architect in the Matrix].

A female emanation of God was involved in the cosmic creation (albeit in a much more positive role than the leader) [Sophia (as the 2 Marys) in gnosticism, the Oracle and Trinity in the Matrix].

In the cosmos, space and time have a malevolent character and may be personified as demonic beings separating man from God[enforced by the agents, esp. Smith].

For man, the universe is a vast prison. He is enslaved both by the physical laws of nature and by such moral laws as the Mosaic code.

Mankind may be personified as Adam, who lies in the deep sleep of ignorance, his powers of spiritual self-awareness stupefied by materiality [Thomas Anderson sleeping in his room].

Within each natural man is an "inner man," a fallen spark of the divine substance [as seen in Neo]. Since this exists in each man, we have the possibility of awakening from our stupefaction [the other Zionists].

What effects the awakening is not obedience, faith, or good works, but knowledge [finding out, "What is the Matrix?"].

Before the awakening, men undergo troubled dreams.

Man does not attain the knowledge that awakens him from these dreams by cognition but through revelatory experience, and this knowledge is not information but a modification of the sensate being.

The awakening (i.e., the salvation) of any individual is a cosmic event [Neo/Christ/Buddha as an archetype meant to be identified with by each individual].

Since the effort is to restore the wholeness and unity of the Godhead, active rebellion against the moral law of the Old Testament [the Matrix universe] is enjoined upon every man [and woman].

Does that help explain the cheesy philosophizing any?
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 11-11-2003, 03:16 AM
 
journeymom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Having a Gilly Water with McGonagall
Posts: 7,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Perhaps the Wachowski bros are Catholic, or raised Catholic. Full of symbolism.

I love Matrix. Was very disappointed with Reloaded. Long freeway action sequence that I couldn't wait to be over with. Followed by long expositions on philosophy by Morpheous and others.

And I really enjoyed Revolutions. It answered some of my questions. And dh and I hashed out more of them later when we discussed the religious analogies. I suppose it might be cheesy, but I decided to just go with it. Besides, I'd already read a few negative reviews so was expecting it to be a disappointment.

So. Are the Architect and Oracle Neo's "parents"? The Architect is a program that the machines created to harvest human energy, right? And the Architect created Oracle to add chance to the program. (Because prior programs had been too perfect and got boring for the humans and they revolted?)

And Agent Smith is the fallen angel, greedy to rule the world created by the Architect.

But Merv (don't remember his whole name) is the devil. Loved it when Trinity said, "What's it gonna be, Merv?" with a gun to his head.

Now, I always figured that Trin is simply Neo's girlfriend. Maybe the Wachoski's thought it sucked that Jesus never got to have a wife (that we know of), so they gave Neo a "wife" and helper. But dh pointed her name is Trinity, so maybe she's analogous to the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure about that, because the Holy Spirt is the giver of life, and Neo was the one who brought Trinity back in Reloaded.

Oh, and Morpheus is John the Baptist,

Someone moved my effing cheese.
journeymom is offline  
Old 11-11-2003, 11:43 AM
 
DaryLLL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under a Chimpocracy
Posts: 13,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by journeymom
Now, I always figured that Trin is simply Neo's girlfriend. Maybe the Wachoski's thought it sucked that Jesus never got to have a wife (that we know of), so they gave Neo a "wife" and helper.
Jesus did have a female companion. Her name is Mary Magdelene (of Bethany). The misogynist orthodox church did a coverup on this. Her name does not mean Mary of Magdala, but Mary the Tower.

Quote:
But dh pointed her name is Trinity, so maybe she's analogous to the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure about that, because the Holy Spirit is the giver of life, and Neo was the one who brought Trinity back in Reloaded.
But she saved him first. In the original, in his final fight with Smith in the subway, he is shot and she kisses him in the real world and he revives full of power and enters Smith and explodes him, etc.

The Holy Spirit is female. In the bible myth, when Jesus is baptized, the Holy Spirit descends upon him as a dove. The dove is always a symbol of the Goddess, not God. Then Jesus hears a voice saying, "This is my son..." why would we assume this is a male voice? It is the voice of the dove, Jesus' real (spiritual)mother.

Another Catholic coverup.

In the original, when Neo and Trinity meet in the club for the first time, Neo says he had heard of her but thought she was a guy. She says, "Most guys do."

Quote:
Oh, and Morpheus is John the Baptist
Yes, of course, which is why I was sure he was going to be killed off. The Bros tweaked things a bit there. Morpheus' role was very diminished in the final chapter. I thought it was kind of embarrassing they left him hanging around as co-pilot to Niobe. No point in that.
DaryLLL is offline  
Old 11-11-2003, 11:12 PM
 
weetzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,882
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks DaryLLL for your explanation

There is just something about the movie that didnt sit right with me. I am glad that you enjoyed it though!

And I completely agree with the treatment of Morpheus in this last one.
weetzie is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off