Wow...um, unexpected facial asymmetry **Pictures added - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The boys had their birthday pictures last week, and I got the Smiles By Wire. My mom called me and said that she was showing them off to coworkers and one of them (rather rudely) pointed out how "odd" Connor's face looks. He has noticeable facial hypotonia, and some other soft markers of his syndrome (wide spaced eyes, flat-ish nasal bridge, his upper lip still doesn't move or look "right", malformed ears) but my mom called me and said that when she looked closer she noticed significant asymmetry.

So I downloaded the pictures into Power Point and turned the grid lines on. WOW! I don't know how to upload a picture AND show grid lines, so I'll just have to describe it.

If you draw a horizontal line across his face, it goes just under his left eye and splits his left ear perfectly in half. But on the right side it goes through the middle of his pupil and near the top of his right ear. His left nostril is higher than his right. His left eye brow is higher than his right. It's obvious that either the left side of his face is higher, or the right side is lower. Also, his left eye is significantly smaller than his right, and it's not just him semi-squinting, it's like that in several poses.

I honestly hadn't noticed this before. I knew he looked a bit "off". I know that subtle facial asymmetry is common in his syndrome, but if it's this noticeable at this young an age, what will it be as he develops??? We know that his internal anatomy is smaller on his left side also.

Sigh.

There's no point to this post really.

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#2 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 07:57 PM
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Our kiddo actually had a somewhat asymetrical face when he was younger. It's more symetrical now. I kind of miss his crooked grin.

Of course, that's not probably not actually helpful, is it?
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#3 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 08:00 PM
 
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nak

i have a facial assymetry too and it seems to have gotten less noticeable as I've gotten older. Now most people only notice in pictures, esp if I stare straight at the camera without smiling.

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#4 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 08:03 PM
 
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I checked out your blog and honestly (I'm not just being nice ) I don't see it. I guess I don't have a good eye for it or something. I think he is adorable (so is his older brother).

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#5 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 08:17 PM
 
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I think that if you put anyone's face on a grid, you'd find asymmetry. And are you sure that the photo shows him in perfect anatomical position? I mean, only half a degree off and no line is going to look right when placed over a face.... anyway, I wouldn't think anything of it.

BTW, I just came from the college where I was studying the bones and skeletons for an upcoming exam. You can tell the real skulls from the resin ones very easily: the resin ones are perfect, and the real ones are mishapen like crazy!

(I'd hate to have a grid placed over my face! )

ETA: I just looked at your blog -- cute! He doesn't look asymmetrical to me.
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#6 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 08:46 PM
 
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I was on your blog and Connor is absolutely adorable! I can't see the asymmetry. Maybe the picture in question just wasn't very flattering.

ETA: You and I are due on the same day

Tanya ~~ mother to: Beth, 12 -- Cali & Trent, 9 -- Melanie, 8 -- Jesse & Davin, 5 -- Baby Shae 9/1/2009
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#7 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm going to upload the new pictures tonight. It's not strikingly obvious until you put the grid lines on it.

I'm not going to obsess about this...it's just the way he is. We accepted his differences the moment he was born, not to say we don't grieve about it once in a while still. I just hope that it truly isn't noticeable to many others, he's already going to have so much to deal with as he grows up, he doesn't need any more reasons to be teased, you know?

He's being a huge pill tonight, but he's so darn CUTE!!! God did this on purpose...made two year olds beautiful and funny, because otherwise they'd never survive this particular stage

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#8 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 08:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2boyzmama View Post
God did this on purpose...made two year olds beautiful and funny, because otherwise they'd never survive this particular stage
SO, SO true!

Tanya ~~ mother to: Beth, 12 -- Cali & Trent, 9 -- Melanie, 8 -- Jesse & Davin, 5 -- Baby Shae 9/1/2009
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#9 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 08:59 PM
 
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Interesting that so many people have observed a lessening of facial asymmetry as the child gets older. That has also been our experience. In our case it is because the child's tone in his face seems to improved as he's gotten older. I wonder if that case with other people too.

And, really I'd take facial asymmetry over being rude any day - imagine pointing out facial asymmetry in the a picture of somebody's kid! Yikes.
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#10 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 09:46 PM
 
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Why people feel the need to make such comments is beyond me.

Connor is so cute! I've checked out your blog. I don't see any asymmetry. And if he had asymmetry so what?

Normal is just a setting on your dryer.
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#11 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 09:46 PM
 
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You're very pretty too. I meant to add that to my other post but I had a brain fart.

Normal is just a setting on your dryer.
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#12 of 41 Old 03-12-2009, 11:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2boyzmama View Post

He's being a huge pill tonight, but he's so darn CUTE!!! God did this on purpose...made two year olds beautiful and funny, because otherwise they'd never survive this particular stage


Mine ate poop today. Only a two year old could look cute after that

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#13 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 08:50 AM
 
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I do see what you're talking about, but isn't everyone's face a bit assymetrical anyway? I have such difference between the height of my ears that every.single.time I get my glasses adjusted the optometrist comments on the variance. EVERY TIME. As if it's something they have never seen before. And nobody notices it otherwise.

How does the a-symmetry apply to his genetic syndrome, if at all?
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#14 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 12:09 PM
 
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There's actually a ton of recent research about non-syndromatic facial asymmetry which, because I'm a big ole nerd (and I know YOU are too - don't deny it!) is utterly fascinating. It's one of the statistical variations that they are using to create facial recognition software. Apparently there are only, like, three people in the world whose faces ARE symmetrical (Halle Berry being one, of course). Anyway, here's an interesting study about it.

Grace's face is definitely asymmetrical. And it has been rather irritating to me because the surgeon who performed her distraction claimed that she would be "absolutely perfect" when he was finished with her. When we, at the end, pointed out the distinct asymmetry, he dismissed it as "very common." We subsequently "dismissed" him because he was an a-hole!

It does bother me a bit, but, well, what am I going to do? Oh well. But I totally know how you feel. Add one more thing, right? Ugh. But, I'll just call it character . . . .



On another note: zoiks girl! your abs look better preggo than mine have since I was 18 and a professional ballet dancer!!!

Wendy ~ mom to VeeGee (6/05), who has PRS, Apraxia, SPD, VPI, a G-Tube, 14q duplication, and is a delightful little pistol! I'm an English professor and a writer.
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#15 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 12:32 PM
 
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A good chiropractor can adjust the face to make it more symmetrical. Juju's used to be off too, and he fixed it. It was really weird to see.
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#16 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 02:26 PM
 
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A good chiropractor can adjust the face to make it more symmetrical. Juju's used to be off too, and he fixed it. It was really weird to see.

How is it possible for a chiropractor to change the bone structure of a persons face?


Everyone has some level of facial asymmetry, I remember in JR high geometry we had to bring in pictures of ourselves and we set them up under grids to see how asymmetrical we were, everyone was asymmetrical. Probably was not the best choice of an activity for a bunch of hormonal image obsessed pre-teens now that I think about it lol

Also keep in mind that pictures can be very distorted. It really depends on the angle the person is to the camera and the actual lens on the camera can cause distortion. I looked at the picture of your son and honestly I would not have noticed anything and I doubt children would either. The picture is probably just a bad picture. He is a cute kid!
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#17 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 03:09 PM
 
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I looked at your blog and I think both of your boys are adorable. I can see a little asymmetry in Connor's face, but only because I was looking for it. Lots of children have some asymmetry, so I don't think he looks unusal or "odd" at all.

I'm sorry your Mom's co-worker was rude. Some people never learned that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

By the way, my son loves "Chuck a Puck" at the Bombers games too! But he's terrified of Bucky.

Lolly
Mom to an amazing little guy, age 9 (Autism, Hyperlexia, Dyspraxia, Albinism, Chromosome Microdeletion)

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#18 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 04:00 PM
 
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I don't know, maybe I'm completely oblivious, but the examples people have posted of their kids looking asymetrical are totally lost on me. All I see are cute kids.

Everyone's got weird things going on with their bodies...usually one side is slightly larger or hairier, or sweatier, or whatever. I know for me, my ears are uneven and I have to get my glasses tweaked to fit them so I can see properly. If anyone commented on my ears or face being off kilter, I'd think they were jerks and ignore them. Don't let a random coworker at your mom's work make you feel bummed. Chances are, they have some part of themselves that they hate, and are trying to make themselves feel better by picking on a little kid. Really, who does that?
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#19 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 04:01 PM
 
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How is it possible for a chiropractor to change the bone structure of a persons face?
The skull - including the face - is made up of many tiny bones. A chiropractor knowlegable in cranial adjustments can adjust them so that everything lines up. Like I said, I saw him do it on Juju, and the result was amazing.

Now mainstream medicine says that at a certain age the bones in the head "fuse". Chiropractic says they do not and that they can always be manipulated. I had my head adjusted one time after I bumped it, and I do feel that I felt the bones move.

Incidentally, chiropractors knew for years that the bones of the sacrum were not fused. But they were believed to be fused by mainstream medicine until the 1980s.
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#20 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 04:14 PM
 
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Incidentally, chiropractors knew for years that the bones of the sacrum were not fused. But they were believed to be fused by mainstream medicine until the 1980s.

Are you talking about children? Adult sacrums are definitely fused.
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#21 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 05:07 PM
 
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Are you talking about children? Adult sacrums are definitely fused.
I'm talking about adults and children. I just googled though and it is all over the web that the bones are fused - so I don't know where the chiro got that mainstream medical is accepting that they are not fused now. I get my sacrum adjusted all the time.

The theory of cranial sacral is that the "fused" bones are still able to move:

"The sacrum and skull bones move slightly 24 hours a day, creating a pumping action that moves the cerebrospinal fluid from the brain to the sacrum and back." http://www.neckbackandbeyond.com/therapies/cst.htm
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#22 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 05:26 PM
 
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I guess they're talking about movement of the sacroiliac joint.

I was holding a sacrum in my hands just this very morning (had midterm exams ) and the "vertebra" are definitely fused. It does indeed start out as five separate bones but after it fuses, it is counted as one. If not, then we would be said to have 210 bones.


ETA: I know this is getting waaay off topic but can I just say how sick I am of studying bones! The end of this semester can not come soon enough for me!
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#23 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 05:41 PM
 
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but according to the FISH test he had done he has all his chromosomes and nothing is missing on his 22nd chromosome. The geneticist said he had a flat nasal bridge and soft ears and soles of his feet like a preemie among other things. I don't see anything asymetrical but then I never checked! LOL!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97reddodge/2489258843/ Not the best photo since he's raising his eyebrows and giving a "power smile!" LOL!
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#24 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 06:07 PM
 
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but according to the FISH test he had done he has all his chromosomes and nothing is missing on his 22nd chromosome. The geneticist said he had a flat nasal bridge and soft ears and soles of his feet like a preemie among other things. I don't see anything asymetrical but then I never checked! LOL!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97reddodge/2489258843/ Not the best photo since he's raising his eyebrows and giving a "power smile!" LOL!
cute pic - and congrats on the grant!!!! that's wonderful.

Wendy ~ mom to VeeGee (6/05), who has PRS, Apraxia, SPD, VPI, a G-Tube, 14q duplication, and is a delightful little pistol! I'm an English professor and a writer.
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#25 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, I finally uploaded the pictures of the boys.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with Connor's face the way it is, it was just shocking to me to turn the grid lines on and see the asymmetry. I still think he's exceptionally good looking (I may have just a tiny bit of bias, I admit!)

And check out my HAM of a four year old!!!! (well, he'll be 4 next week anyway) We've never had a bad picture of Ian!

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#26 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was on your blog and Connor is absolutely adorable!
Thanks
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How does the a-symmetry apply to his genetic syndrome, if at all?
I just know that it's very common, to a degree that's noticeable above and beyond the "normal" asymmetry of the general population. It has to do with the craniofacial involvement of the syndrome. For Connor, since his left side is more severely effected, it also means his hearing is worse on his left, he gets more frequent infections in his left ear, etc.
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Grace's face is definitely asymmetrical. Look at her RED hair!!! There's red hair spattered throughout my husband's family, so I always wondered if I'd get a red head...

It does bother me a bit, but, well, what am I going to do? Oh well. But I totally know how you feel. Add one more thing, right? Ugh. But, I'll just call it character . . . .



On another note: zoiks girl! your abs look better preggo than mine have since I was 18 and a professional ballet dancer!!!
Thank you for the comment on my abs...I worked dang hard for them!!! I was a gymnast as a kid, so that built my core, but after having two rather large babies back to back, it took a ot of work!!
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I looked at your blog and I think both of your boys are adorable.
...
By the way, my son loves "Chuck a Puck" at the Bombers games too! But he's terrified of Bucky.
Thanks, I'm sure I'm biased, but I think they're good looking kids

Ian LOVED chuck a puck, and liked bucky from a distance, but I'm sure up close he'd think different! He thinks the same of Heater from the dragons games...we met him once at Children's when Connor was there, and Ian hid behind me!

Do you live in Dayton???
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but according to the FISH test he had done he has all his chromosomes and nothing is missing on his 22nd chromosome. The geneticist said he had a flat nasal bridge and soft ears and soles of his feet like a preemie among other things. I don't see anything asymetrical but then I never checked! LOL!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97reddodge/2489258843/ Not the best photo since he's raising his eyebrows and giving a "power smile!" LOL!
Do you still suspect a chromosome issue? Because the testing has gotten better and better, you can always test again. Do a microarray instead of a FISH.



Thanks everyone. I'm okay with this, really, it was just surprising.

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#27 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 07:15 PM
 
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I took a look at your boys 2boyzmama, and seriously, they are gorgeous! In all honestly, I see no asymmetry and nothing "odd" about Connor's face. I have no idea what your mom's co-worker was seeing (or thinking for saying that!).

AuntLavender, that is a great pic! It seems from your son's pic that geneticists see what they are trained to see (which is good for their field of work!). I don't see anything different with his nasal bridge nor his ears (heck, I don't even know what soft ears are!). Very cute little boy!

And that pic of the little red haired girl, so cute! Love her gorgeous eyes!

Very cute kids in this thread!

Tofie ~ mama to DD1, DD2 and Pookie v3 debuting December 2011
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#28 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 07:28 PM
 
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My dh has one ear lower than the other. I tease him. It's not noticeable, really. Ds1 has one ear that's sticky-out. Also not a big deal.

I think your boys are just the cutest!

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#29 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 07:40 PM
 
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AuntG, a dead bone is very different from a live bone in the way that it moves. I'm sure you weren't hold a live sacrum in your hand. YMMV I'm just a little passionate about it cause my OT and I have been working with Juju's bones with the understanding that they are dynamic not rigid like dead bone, and it is making all the difference!!
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#30 of 41 Old 03-13-2009, 08:39 PM
 
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I still think that your kids, along with all our kids, look fine and any asymmetry is perfectly normal. You also have to remember that the lens of the camera is not perfect. Anyway, great pictures! I especially like the glam shot of him looking over his shoulder! So cute!

My partner was just sitting here reading over my shoulder and he said "Oh boy! You should post a picture of my ear!" Poor guy has one ear that sits nicely against his head and another that sticks out like the wing of a large hanglider just waiting to catch an updraft!!!


2Bluefish, live bones are just as rigid as dead ones, in that they can only move at articulations. Otherwise, they wouldn't be very effective at being bones. Now, secondary ossification, lengthening, isn't complete until about age 25, sooner for females. And during that pocess alot of fusing takes place too. Children have more bones than adults because the fusing process has not completed. Juju's sacrum is not fused yet. Right. So it articulates just like the vertebral column. None of this negates the effectiveness of the therapy you are doing. In fact, maybe we could start another thread and you could tell me more about that!
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