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#1 of 58 Old 02-09-2012, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We have a boy in our neighborhood who is autistic (high functioning) and he is a complete terror. He bullies all the kids, calls them names, taunts them, etc. and he is absolutely relentless. His mother is in total denial and everytime I've tried to talk to her about it, she blows it off and says "boys will be boys".  Other moms have tried to talk to her as well and they get the same response. I feel so bad that my kids and all the other neighborhood kids have to deal with him whenever they want to play outside- it's not fair and I don't think this boy realizes his behavior is inappropriate even though I and any other adult present at the time tells him he needs to stop. He will stop for a short time but then it starts back up again. Any advice on what I can do to help him stop and also what I can tell the other kids to help them deal with this? I've been working with kids in coming up with dismissive comments to say to the boy when he acts up such as "why don't you go fly a kite"? Or go take a hike or something like that so the boy sees he can't get a rise out of them and will hopefully stop but these are young kids (ages 6-9) so this strategy takes a lot of practice for them. I'm so fed up with this boy but at the same time I feel bad for him as I can see he just doesn't understand that if he is mean the other kids won't want to play with him.  Any ideas on what I can do? 

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#2 of 58 Old 02-09-2012, 09:23 PM
 
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You may want to rethink teaching your children to parrot "dismissive" phrases to other kids, particularly special needs kids. I mean, I get that you want your kids to advocate for themselves, which is wonderful, but that's not how you do it. 

 

Simply tell the child, "you may not do xzy. It's not okay, and the others don't like it." Using figures of speech with a child you know to be autistic is a really good way to not actually communicate with that child. You need to be blunt, literal, and clear. "No, you may not call Ted a Poophead. Do not do it again." is far more effective than, "Hey, knock it off and stop calling Ted names."  

 

If say, "go fly a kite," most autistics will first think- am I to actually go fly a kite? then maybe get to- no, it's a figure of speech which means go away, but the younger the child, the less flexible and fluid the thought process is. People with autism, especially kids, REALLY need you to be very, very clear about what you want and expect, and what the rules are. "Play nicely" is meaningless. "No kicking at all, ever" is better. "No name-calling" is worthless. "Ted's name is Ted. That is what you should call him. Do not call him a Poophead," is better.

 

Teach your children to tell *all* kids, "I don't like it when you push me, please stop," and not "buzz off, you creep."

 


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#3 of 58 Old 02-09-2012, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That is really good advice, I totally get your point. That was how we started with this boy- everytime he would do something in appropriate I would address that specific situation and explain to him why he shouldn't do that. This became a full time exhausting job as I was needing to intervene constantly. The kids were having a hard time effectively advocating for themselves as their first reactions would always be to get upset and yell at the boy. By the way- he is the nine year old and the other kids are much younger six and seven.  When I started teaching them the dismissive comments, they started having fun coming up with their own, like go pet a porcupine! Or go kiss a fish! And other silly things that would change the mood and all the kids would laugh. The boy would laugh too so I thought it was a good way to redirect but I'm not sure if that's a good long term solution. We have a pool in the development and last year it was non- stop with this kid, telling him to stop doing this and that while his mother sunbathed, oblivious. But now I have an infant and I won't be able to be on top on this as much. I'm very worried I will lose my temper with this boy's mother if we can't get a handle on this situation.

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#4 of 58 Old 02-09-2012, 10:25 PM
 
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Why can't the boys play in a back yard or house for awhile?  This is what we did when we had a bully on our street (who was completely NT, btw -- your problem isn't mostly about the boy's sn, but rather about his behavior).

 

It's not the whole solution, but I suspect it is part of it.

 

I agree with Erin about being extremely clear about what he is and is not allowed to do to YOUR child. But other than that, this isn't a situation in which you have any control.


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#5 of 58 Old 02-10-2012, 07:32 AM
 
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In this situation, the fact that he has autism isn't relevant.  Any child who bullies and who's parent blows it off needs to be excluded from play.  I think the advice to be clear and to the point is great.  However, the message I'd send is... if you do not stop calling Johnie names,  you will no longer be allowed to play with him.  And then stick to it.  Move things into your home or back yard and then let his mother know that you and the other parents have tried to be understanding and compassionate with her son but because she isn't setting boundaries with him, he is no respecting your or your child's boundaries and he is no longer welcome to play with your child.

 

If enough parents tell her that her child is no longer welcome - maybe then she'll get the point (or she'll show up on some message board complaining how mean her neighbors are - LOL) and teach her child appropriate behavior.

 

I saw a piece of an interview with Temple Grandin the other day about autism and manners and behaviors in public.  She said that when she was a child in the 50's, manners were beat into kids and even if they had autism, they were taught how to behave.  Now, I don't believe in beating ANYTHING into a child.  However, you can teach all children manners and appropriate behaviors.  


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#6 of 58 Old 02-11-2012, 05:26 AM
 
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yeahthat.gif  The important thing is keeping your kids safe and respected.  Use clear language to say what is expected.  Erin Yay's approach sounds good.  I noticed you mentioned "explaining to him why he shouldn't..." Even if direct, this doesn't tend to work, in my experience (have a child on the spectrum, work with kids on the spectrum). " Why "can be totally lost on these kids.  Just say "You may not do (this specific action).  I will send you home if you do this"  If your boys are at your house and yard, this is totally within your rights.  I agree with the above poster about being very clear with the boys parents about why you sent him home.

 

I've met just as many kids on the spectrum with very good manners as with poor manners.  Most will learn appropriate manners very literally if taught.  I see lots of kids the other way around, who say "hi" every time they see a person (because it's a rule) but maybe even when they just enter a room, only call adults by title and last name (but don't know what to do if they don't know the last name), always say "thank-you" even if it interrupts the flow of the conversation, etc.  It's subtle manners like conversation flow that you can't always expect.  Knowing not to use an inappropriate word or name is simple manners that can be taught.


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#7 of 58 Old 02-11-2012, 07:25 AM
 
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Oh wow, this mom is really not helping her son at all.  My friends son is autistic and from watching them interact I can tell you a direct approach is best.  As far as that mother is concerned, if she wants to blow it off I'd let her know she's hurting her sons chances of having some good friends in the neighborhood by dismissing it all and chalking it up to a boy issue.  Maybe she needs some information on how to help her son rather than hinder him.

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#8 of 58 Old 02-11-2012, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes I don't know why this mom won't help her son. We live in a condominium community so there's no backyards, just common play areas. So unfortunately the children spend the bulk of their play time trying to escape this boy and he relentlessly follows them around. I can't just tell him to go home because we're on common property. The reason why I felt his behavior might be related to his special needs is because one day all the kids ran into my house to get away from him and he was standing at my sliding glass door looking so sad. So I went out there and asked him if he knew why the kids didn't want to play with him and he seemed genuinely confused. I said well I saw you sticking your tongue out at the kids and calling one of the younger boys a cry baby, do you think that might be why? And I could tell he just didn't get it. I reached out to the guidance counselor at the kids' school because the kids told me he was bullying them at recess and other unstructured times. I told her that I've tried to talk to his mother and she was unwilling to do anything but it is very clear this boy needs help. She said she'd look into it and I found out a couple days later that he was assigned a one on one aide at school so he would be continuously supervised. That helped with recess and then a few weeks later he got kicked off the bus permanently because the bus driver couldn't control him on the bus. I'm glad that the school is taking the steps to ensure the safety and happiness of the other kids but this boy has no idea why he can't ride the bus or why a grown up has to be with him all the time at school. It's sad and frustrating because I want to help him but I don't have any expertise in this area and I don't think it's fair to make the other children play with this boy who tortures them.

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#9 of 58 Old 02-11-2012, 09:16 AM
 
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That's a very difficult situation.  My heart breaks for that boy.  Obviously the mom should know he's been assigned an aide, kicked off the bus... what more does she need to get him help? 
 

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Originally Posted by momof3tobe View Post

Yes I don't know why this mom won't help her son. We live in a condominium community so there's no backyards, just common play areas. So unfortunately the children spend the bulk of their play time trying to escape this boy and he relentlessly follows them around. I can't just tell him to go home because we're on common property. The reason why I felt his behavior might be related to his special needs is because one day all the kids ran into my house to get away from him and he was standing at my sliding glass door looking so sad. So I went out there and asked him if he knew why the kids didn't want to play with him and he seemed genuinely confused. I said well I saw you sticking your tongue out at the kids and calling one of the younger boys a cry baby, do you think that might be why? And I could tell he just didn't get it. I reached out to the guidance counselor at the kids' school because the kids told me he was bullying them at recess and other unstructured times. I told her that I've tried to talk to his mother and she was unwilling to do anything but it is very clear this boy needs help. She said she'd look into it and I found out a couple days later that he was assigned a one on one aide at school so he would be continuously supervised. That helped with recess and then a few weeks later he got kicked off the bus permanently because the bus driver couldn't control him on the bus. I'm glad that the school is taking the steps to ensure the safety and happiness of the other kids but this boy has no idea why he can't ride the bus or why a grown up has to be with him all the time at school. It's sad and frustrating because I want to help him but I don't have any expertise in this area and I don't think it's fair to make the other children play with this boy who tortures them.



 

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#10 of 58 Old 02-11-2012, 09:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by momof3tobe View Post

The reason why I felt his behavior might be related to his special needs is because one day all the kids ran into my house to get away from him and he was standing at my sliding glass door looking so sad.

 

First, how do you know that this child has a diagnoses of anything or exactly what the diagnoses is? It doesn't sound like this is a conversation that you've had with his mother, and the school is not allowed to tell you.

 

Did you and the other moms get together and talk about and decide what is wrong with him?

 

Second, whether or not he has special needs, the CAUSE of his behavior is not your issue. Your issue is how to respond and teach your child to respond. Getting hung up on the special needs issue is distracting for the primary issue -- this child is a misery for your child to be around, and you don't have a back yard.

 

That helped with recess and then a few weeks later he got kicked off the bus permanently because the bus driver couldn't control him on the bus. I'm glad that the school is taking the steps to ensure the safety and happiness of the other kids but this boy has no idea why he can't ride the bus or why a grown up has to be with him all the time at school.

 

Do you mean that he was moved from the regular bus to the special needs bus because the school realizes that for his special needs, the level of supervision is more appropriate for him there, or do you mean the school views him as a discipline problem and no longer provide transportation for him? It's not the same thing.

 

If this child has a dx, he can't be denied transportation back and forth to school based on anything related to that dx. He can, however, be given appropriate accommodations, such as riding a different bus.

 

You are asking for advice from moms who may have children who ride the *other* bus. I have a child who cannot ride a regular school bus. 

 

 

It's sad and frustrating because I want to help him but I don't have any expertise in this area and I don't think it's fair to make the other children play with this boy who tortures them.

 

Having someone stick their tongue out at you and call you a cry baby isn't torture. Yes, his behavior is unpleasant. No, your child doesn't have to play with him if he doesn't want to.

 

But overstating this child's behavior isn't helpful. He's isn't torturing the kids, and I don't know that what he's doing even counts as bullying. He does have poor social skills and annoys the other children.

 

Asking if he knows why the other kids don't want to play with him doesn't make any sense to me -- special needs or not. Kids with social problems DONT KNOW. That's why they keep repeating the same social mistakes over and over.

 

"The other boys do not like it when you stick your tongue out and call them cry babies. You need to leave our house now."

 

 

 

 


 

 


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#11 of 58 Old 02-11-2012, 01:29 PM
 
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You can't control other people. You cannot do a anything to make this woman realize that her son is having some issues. 

 

All you can do is look after your own kids. Because my child has had some aggressive behaviours (he's HFA) I have always had to shadow him when playing with others. He has rarely had an opportunity to just run and play with the neighbourhood kids. Now, in my case it was b/c of my son's issues and I felt it was my responsibility to be the shadow, not the other mums. But in your case the mum of the boy is not doing what she should, so someone else is going to have to step up. And yeah, it sucks to not be able to just let your kids off to play so you can get stuff done (especially when it is because of someone else's child) but that has been my reality and that of other mothers so it can be done. 

 

If I were you, as much as it would suck, I would not let my kids out to play on their own if that boy is around. An adult needs to be present, and I don't just mean to keep the kids safe. Someone who is socially competent needs to coach these kids through these situations. How do you handle it when someone says something weird or acts weird? You've had some good tips about how to talk compassionately with this boy, but also use this as an opportunity to teach your kids compassion. Perhaps after a few months of you being there to coach them through these moments all the kids will learn the skills to manage them on their own. 

 

Even if this kid has no special needs, throwing kids out to play with no adults to guide them is letting the blind lead the blind. Some kids can figure out the right thing to do, but sounds like you've got a particularly challenging situation here and I don't think you can expect the kids to all figure out how to handle this on their own. 

 

Letting your kids out to play without someone there to supervise them (and I mean really be in there, listening to what is going on, and stepping in to help) you are just throwing them to the wolves and hoping someone else (the mother of the boy) is going to fix things. Sounds like she can't or won't so it's up to you to do what you can to help your kids (and likely end up helping the other kids and the boy himself too).

 


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#12 of 58 Old 02-11-2012, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok whew! I actually have had very lengthy conversations with the mother and she told me that he had high functioning autism and epilepsy. She said all this appeared right after he got his 5 yr booster shots and he was totally fine before that. She knows he is bad but she blames it on him "being a boy." She told me that he was getting into too much trouble on the bus and she decided to drive him to and from school instead of having him take the other bus. The mother is a very nice person but she is in denial. And he has physically attacked the other children and constantly gets in their faces, I just used the sticking the tongue out as an example of how he doesn't realize his poor behavior affects his ability to make friends. 

I guess I've always had the "it takes a village" approach to children and thought maybe there was something I could do to help. I was thinking about (and let me know if this is a bad idea) of getting the kids together at the beginning of the summer (him included) and going over some ground rules for appropriate pool behavior because it was seriously every 2 minutes either my kids were running up to me telling me that the boy was being mean or the boy was running to me telling me the other kids didn't want to play with him.  I thought if I told them all in the beginning of the summer if you keep splashing the other kids, call them names and push them in the pool they will not want to play with you. Would that be over stepping my bounds?

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#13 of 58 Old 02-11-2012, 03:07 PM
 
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I don't see a problem with that- I do it myself to groups of kids. Someone's throwing dirt at my kid? "Hey, guys. No throwing dirt." 

 

That said, most typical 6-9-yr-olds probably won't take a start-of-summer speech to heart, so you'll be constantly reminding kids anyhow. Just work on clear, concise language with clear consequences for all the kids. "No pushing other kids or you're done for the day." Maybe rotate parents and have a "lifeguard" who can wear a specific hat or t-shirt, and be the lifeguard for everyone for the day. Right now it may seem that Ted's mom is always bossing everyone around, and an official lifeguard who keeps everyone safe might have better luck in getting consistent safe behavior from all the kids.


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#14 of 58 Old 02-11-2012, 08:59 PM
 
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Ok whew! I actually have had very lengthy conversations with the mother and she told me that he had high functioning autism and epilepsy. She said all this appeared right after he got his 5 yr booster shots and he was totally fine before that.

 

This is from your first post:

His mother is in total denial and every time I've tried to talk to her about it, she blows it off and says "boys will be boys".
 

I don't see how both of these statements can be true. I don't see how a parent can tell you their child's DX and history and can also be in total denial. She isn't handling things the way YOU want her to, but she isn't in "total denial."

 

 

 

 

She told me that he was getting into too much trouble on the bus and she decided to drive him to and from school instead of having him take the other bus.

 

This is from another of your posts:

he got kicked off the bus permanently because the bus driver couldn't control him on the bus

 

I don't see how both of these statements can be true.

 

 

 

I guess I've always had the "it takes a village" approach to children and thought maybe there was something I could do to help.

 

I do believe it takes a village, but you and I have very different ideas of what that means. If you really believed it took a village, and you really believed that this child had autism and *you understood what that meant,*  I think you'd be a little mellower about watching the kids while they swim so they mom can have a bit of break.

 

To me, it sounds like the mother isn't in denial, and having been on the other side of these things, I would suspect that she's spent a lot of time in meetings at school discussing the myriad of ways in which her son is problem the staff and students. You cannot possible imagine how exhausting that is. What you are seeing may not be denial at all, but complete overwhelment and exhaustion, with may be a side of depression and/or grief thrown in.

 

I'm not sure exactly what it is that you want her to do -- wave her magic wand and fix her son so that he will not be a PITA for yours. I'm sure if she had that power she would. But she lives with her son 24/7, try to image what this is like FOR HER.  Right now, you have no idea what she is doing with him on life skills, school skills, etc. You feel like she is dropping the ball on social skills, but you really don't know what she's tried or what the whole situation is.

 

There is a LOT of judgment in your post about the mother. Judging people is not part of "being a village" with them. 

 

 

I was thinking about (and let me know if this is a bad idea) of getting the kids together at the beginning of the summer (him included) and going over some ground rules for appropriate pool behavior because it was seriously every 2 minutes either my kids were running up to me telling me that the boy was being mean or the boy was running to me telling me the other kids didn't want to play with him.  I thought if I told them all in the beginning of the summer if you keep splashing the other kids, call them names and push them in the pool they will not want to play with you. Would that be over stepping my bounds?

 

I think if you make one set of rules for this child and tell him he needs to do those things so he can friends, it would be deeply horrible, but that if you made a set of rules for all the kids, may be discussed it with the other mothers, and left off the threat of lack of human contact, it would be fine. There is a subtle and yet huge difference.

 

(it's how I handle things both with my own kids and other kids)

 

Some kids really enjoying splashing and being splashed and playing that way, but splashing in our family needs to be by mutual consent.

 

No name calling is a good rule for everyone.

 

No pushing or running near a pool are basic safety rules that every needs to follow. (up there with not bring glass containers to a pool, and not diving into shallow water)


 

 

 

 


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#15 of 58 Old 02-12-2012, 08:46 AM
 
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I think what a lot of this comes down to is you will need to supervise your kids.  When my kids were little, we lived in a housing co-op with a similar situation of shared play space.  Even with no special needs at play, there were always issues with kids who behaved inappropriately, were physically violent or verbally abusive.  (Actually, our housing co-op had an entire 4 kids on the spectrum and they actually weren't the main behavioral concerns).  When you don't have a yard, you have a lot less under your control and you can't just crack open a window and listen to the kids' play.  I agree with the above posters that have said you'll just need to supervise more.  Really, if many of the kids are 6 and 7, you can't expect them to appropriately handle difficult situations.  You will just have to be physically present to supervise more.

 

As an above poster said, you can really only be responsible for your kids, so keep them safe and respected.  As you said, you can't send the child home (it's not your yard).  Stating that if you do such and such will make the kids not want to play with you is not something a child with social difficulties understands.  Just state the ground rules clearly and simply.  The only thing that makes this any different just because there is a special needs child involved is that you will have to be especially clear.  (As in definitely avoid figures of speech or hinting).  But really, this is good policy with all kids.

 

I've felt a lot of resentment at times with my own special needs son that he is expected to learn social skills but others aren't learning clear and non judging verbal communication skills.  His school has done some really thoughtful things like having social skills classes integrated into the health curriculum, and an entire term of non verbal communication as part of the language arts curriculum.  It's great all the kids are getting this exposure and not just the special needs kids.But I would like to see more of the other side of communication taught as well, in the same way that nursing and social service professionals are taught.  Everyone can learn this, not just naturally verbally and socially adept people.  And all kids below 10 or so, not just the socially less able, need fairly concrete and clear language.  Some adults, too.  My daughter says I remind her of Amelia Bedelia.

 

If you really want to help this child and your own at the same time, work on your communication skills.  Start with learning to say what action is directly needed, and learning to state what you see or hear that is the problem rather than a judgement ("As in "You may not call my son a poop head" not "You aren't playing nicely").  I also recommend reading the book "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen".  It's a great book about all communication, just as helpful with your spouse or co-workers as your kids.  I do believe you that you are not meaning to be hurtful to the boy or his mother, but even when you are giving examples of plans to communicate clearly and kindly, your message is missing the mark on being clear.  Work on you and helping your kids because that is the part you can control.


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#16 of 58 Old 02-12-2012, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I said that she told me he had autism and epilepsy, and she knew her son was bad, but she blamed his behavior on him "being a boy".  So she knows he has some actual neurological problems, but doesn't think that is involved at all in his inability to get along with the other children.  Maybe she's right...but I am always outside with the kids and helping them play together and it seems like what I do with other kids to help them get along doesn't seem to work with him.
 

I said that he got permanently kicked off the bus for bad behavior.  He had several other instances where he was not allowed to ride the bus for a week because of inappropriate behavior but was allowed back on after that week.  This last time his mother was told that he would no longer be allowed to ride the regular bus and could either be transported by the smaller bus with the aide or driven in by her.  She chose to drive him because she told me the previous year he had ridden the smaller bus and was in trouble every day because, she said, he had too many bad influences on the smaller bus.

 

And last summer I was the unofficial "parent in charge" at the pool because I seemed to be the only parent interested in helping the kids get along.  I had just had a baby that May, and it was very difficult trying to nurse and take care of an infant and discipline this boy as well as my own kids, but the baby was little and non-mobile so I was able to carry her around.  But this summer she will be one year old and very mobile.  I don't think I will be able to be on top of these situations as well as I was last summer so that's why I wanted to say something ahead of time to the kids so the expectations are clear in the beginning.  I would love to give this mom a break, but hey, I've got two boys and a baby girl and my hands are full!   

I will be extremely clear and literal with this boy when he does something inappropriate- it is exhausting but I guess my only other option would be to keep my kids away from the pool when he's there and I don't think that's fair to my kids.

 

I feel like you are trying to  "call me out" and find discrepancies in my posts.  I was trying to keep my posts as short as possible as I didn't want to ramble but I suppose I left out details that would explain the situation entirely and it seemed not true?  My main purpose was to find alternative ways of communicating in order to help my kids as well as this boy play together without me having to stand over them and intervene constantly.  I actually think that should be possible with my boys being 6 and 7 and this boy being 9.
 

 

 

 



 

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I also want to add, before you question the authenticity of the post, that the reason he was on the smaller bus the previous year and then allowed to ride the bigger bus was because that summer he started a new diet specifically for epilepsy, which requires him to eat almost all fat- it is designed to re-set the brain and stop the seizures. So his mom got the neurologist to call the school and ask that he be allowed to try and ride the regular bus because she (the mother) felt his behavior would actually be better if he wasn't around the other special needs kids, and she (the doctor) felt that this new diet would stop the threat of him having a seizure.

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I get what you're saying and I understand completely.  I've been in situations where parents of SN kids seem to not take their responsibilities seriously.  Or turn a blind eye.  I get that. 

 

Maybe some of the moms here think it's an attack on SN.  And I'm pretty sure that's not what you're doing.  You seem like you're to understand and to find ways to cope.  So moms here with SN kids who are actually involved in a positive way... educate rather than finger point.  Really helps in the long run.  No... seriously it really helps. 
 

 



 

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So moms here with SN kids who are actually involved in a positive way... educate rather than finger point.  Really helps in the long run.  No... seriously it really helps. 



Well I think It would really help if people would quit coming to the Special Needs Parenting board and telling parents of SN kids how to behave. Seriously.  

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I get what you're saying and I understand completely.  I've been in situations where parents of SN kids seem to not take their responsibilities seriously.  Or turn a blind eye.  I get that. 

 

Maybe some of the moms here think it's an attack on SN.  And I'm pretty sure that's not what you're doing.  You seem like you're to understand and to find ways to cope.  So moms here with SN kids who are actually involved in a positive way... educate rather than finger point.  Really helps in the long run.  No... seriously it really helps. 
 



 

 

 

This is a support board for moms of special needs. This is not the place to come to discuss the myriad of ways you think sn parents aren't doing things right.  Those conversations simple do not belong on this board. At all.

 

If you want honest opinions from special needs parents, you can get them here, but they often come with a dose of "this is how you sound to some one on the other side of things." A lot of parents of "normal" children really do not care to hear how they sound.

 

There is a massive difference between  a child being permanently removed from the bus for bad behavior, and the parent and school working and struggling together to figure out what actually works for a child. It's not that you were keeping your post short, it's that you don't understand.

 

Part of it's your word choice. For example, the more I think about it, the less I'm convinced that a person on the spectrum is capable or bullying another person because bullying is about power and control, and people on the spectrum aren't wired to be that twisted.
 

There is a difference between "socially unacceptable behavior" and "bullying and terrorizing."   You lumped them all together. It's not that its shorter, it's that you weren't precise in your word choice.

 

 

You are wanting help learning to communicate better with this child. Part of the problem is with your lack of precise language. Most humans need language to be more precise that you use to understand what the other person means. (which is why  seem to be calling you out -- you didn't use precise language in this thread, so I thought one thing was your reality when it was really wasn't. I was going by what you said). 

 

People on the spectrum need language to be far more precise that NT people do. 

 

 


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Look, I wasn't telling you guys you were doing anything wrong as I don't thing that at all.  I really think this lady needs some help in understanding her role in her little community.  We're all slightly in this together and we really all have a lot to learn everyday.  Why be offended?  Seriously how did I say any parents here on this forum were not great SN parents. I think this is the absolutely right place for people to come and ask questions and understand.  And yes my child is SN.  I'm not coming here to be a douche. 

 

What bothered me about the boy in OP's situation is that this has happened in my family.  There are a few family members that want so bad for their SN kids to be accepted as just another kid in the neighborhood that they don't do a whole lot to actually help.   However that doesn't mean that the Mother in the OP's story wasn't doing all she could.  And honestly I think the Mother of the SN kid should keep her kids away from less than tolerant people.  But it's not popular opinion so I'll shove it.  What do I know, right? 

 

Edited to say, I still feel really stupid for not getting that something was going on with my kid.  She's not just spirited or difficult.  I caused her more pain than necessary. 

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Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post


 

 

 

This is a support board for moms of special needs. This is not the place to come to discuss the myriad of ways you think sn parents aren't doing things right.  Those conversations simple do not belong on this board. At all.

Would it be possible that this is a good place to learn what is the right ways to go about parenting and living in close proximity of a SN child?  This is where I learned about what was going on with my daughter.  This is where I learned I was not going about it the right way.  You can take that away all you want but that's just making it personal.

 

If you want honest opinions from special needs parents, you can get them here, but they often come with a dose of "this is how you sound to some one on the other side of things." A lot of parents of "normal" children really do not care to hear how they sound.

Right but that's all the pretty much been done.  Very little in actual educating.

 

There is a massive difference between  a child being permanently removed from the bus for bad behavior, and the parent and school working and struggling together to figure out what actually works for a child. It's not that you were keeping your post short, it's that you don't understand.

 

Part of it's your word choice. For example, the more I think about it, the less I'm convinced that a person on the spectrum is capable or bullying another person because bullying is about power and control, and people on the spectrum aren't wired to be that twisted.
 

There is a difference between "socially unacceptable behavior" and "bullying and terrorizing."   You lumped them all together. It's not that its shorter, it's that you weren't precise in your word choice.

 

 

You are wanting help learning to communicate better with this child. Part of the problem is with your lack of precise language. Most humans need language to be more precise that you use to understand what the other person means. (which is why  seem to be calling you out -- you didn't use precise language in this thread, so I thought one thing was your reality when it was really wasn't. I was going by what you said). 

 

People on the spectrum need language to be far more precise that NT people do. 

 

 


The hi-lighted is important and what needed to be said from the beginning. 
 

 

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Right but that's all the pretty much been done.  Very little in actual educating.

 

The hi-lighted is important and what needed to be said from the beginning. 

 

Did you read the whole thread?  There's been some excellent, practical, easy to understand advice given.  

 

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#24 of 58 Old 02-12-2012, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am sorry this is offending anyone, believe me that wasn't my intention.  I think I used was as precise language as a parent of a non-special needs child could.  Obviously if my child was hitting and teasing and taunting it would be called bullying.  If I was told my child was no longer allowed to ride the bus for the rest of the year because of poor behavior, I would consider him kicked off the bus.  I am sorry I am ignorant to the different phrases that pertain to special needs children in these situations.  That was the reason I wanted to ask parents of special needs children some advise- because I thought that if I asked on the regular parenting board, the advice would just be "keep your kids away from him", or "tell the boy he can't play with your kids" and I wanted to see if there was a way I could avoid that.  

 

I was hoping to get some examples like "when my kids does this, this is what I say and that tends to help"- that type of thing.  I did get some good advice to be very literal and clear about what he can and can't do but this is going to require me to be on top of him and my kids all the time while they are playing and with a baby, this is going to be hard.  

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Quote:

Originally Posted by momof3tobe View Post

...I thought that if I asked on the regular parenting board, the advice would just be "keep your kids away from him", or "tell the boy he can't play with your kids" and I wanted to see if there was a way I could avoid that.  

 

I was hoping to get some examples like "when my kids does this, this is what I say and that tends to help"- that type of thing.  I did get some good advice to be very literal and clear about what he can and can't do but this is going to require me to be on top of him and my kids all the time while they are playing and with a baby, this is going to be hard.  



Unfortunately, the advice here is pretty much the same, because none of us really can control the actions of another. I have a good deal of sympathy for this mum, but the bottom line is that YOU don't feel your kids are safe with him so something needs to be done about it and if she can't/won't you will have to step in. As I said before, all you can do is supervise your children. Yes, it's a pain in the butt, especially when you have other kids and a baby. But it's your reality, just as it was my reality that I could not ever leave my son to play with others unsupervised; I couldn't even just sit and knit and watch the kids play like the other moms did. No point complaining about it, that's just how it is. You find ways to make it work because you have no choice. 

 

I do agree with the previous poster who said that, frankly, ALL young children should be closely supervised, or at least have a lot of adults around so that social conflicts can be detected early on and the children guided through the situations. This is one of my big pet peeves with school. Unless you have a wide age range of kids playing together, they cannot be expected to just figure out how to deal with such things on their own, or from their peers (it's the blind leading the blind). I realize that you think a 6 or 9 year old should be able to play that way, but I disagree. I think we (as a society) overlook a good deal of what goes on between kids thinking it's "normal" or just part of life, when really its a lack of social coaching with kids left to fend for themselves and often coming up with some pretty dysfunctional ways of dealing with things (like name-calling, exclusion, teasing, etc).

 

Maybe if the mother realizes that you (or other parents) are doing the job of supervising the kids while they play she might think she should have a go at it. Lead by example, sort of thing.

 

The suggestion to call CPS is just so horrible I won't even go there. Like that mother needs more stress in her life. It's not like the kid is running around with a gun.


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You can't make this mother watch her child more closely.

 

I would just keep a good eye on my kids (as in : be outside) and intervene when needed with direct language.

 

I am not sure I would bother with a rules talk at the beginning of summer.  If the 9 year old seemed to want to play with your son while you were outside, and if your DS wanted to play with him,  I would go over some rules at the first sign of an issue "you can play with DS but only if you do not kick, punch, etc.  Ds is not allowed to hit you, either."  It might work…then again, it might not. This does not replace direct supervision.  I know this sucks for you, but it is what it is.  I would not allow my kid to be bullied or bully (OP used the word bully) - that is worse than missing a bit of outdoor play.

 

For it is worth, I have been there/done that.  You have my sympathy.  About 5 years ago we had a serious (neurotypical) bully that lived next door.  My kids sometimes wanted to play with him, and at other times did not dizzy.gif  I spent a lot of times outdoors, and we had lots of outings to get a break from the situation.   This season of your life will not last forever.  I do not regret the direct supervision I did when the bullying situation was around, but I do wish I had put up firmer boundaries around my time  (had days that were "family" only, told my kids that yes they could go outside and play, but put limits on how long, etc.

 

Are there lifeguards at the pool?  Mine are pretty good about calling on kids for poor behaviour.  You might need to clue them in that you could use some support in this area.    

 

You might want to post on  "Talking Amongst Ourself" if you want a different POV.  I would leave out the stuff about SN - it is not overly relevant.  

 

 

 

 

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nm

 

 

 

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I think the OP's heart was in the right place and this thread is starting to get ugly.  Ladies, let's take a step back here.   Most of the NT community (with the exception of a few spectacular people) just don't understand our kids, what to make of them, how to interact with them, etc.  It doesn't make them bad or wrong - just inexperienced.  She may not be using the right "language" here but her intent was to ensure this child was not ostracized and was included in the activities of the other children in the neighborhood.  I think that is something we, as special needs parents, need to cultivate, not push away.  

 

As far as the bus situation, it's entirely possible there are three sides to that story (the bus driver's side, the Mom's side and the truth).  It doesn't mean the OP was lying - just means she's now heard a few different things about the issue.

 

OP - it's hard for you, not being a Mom of a special needs child, to offer advice.  If you did, chances are it would be blown off (lord knows I've done plenty of that from good natured people wanting to tell me how to raise my son but having no idea what it's like to have a child with special needs).  I don't think the Mom is in denial.  I think the Mom sounds overwhelmed, grieving (as previously stated) and struggling to just have her son be a kid.  You would probably be better off asking for her help than offering ideas.  "Mom, I've noticed that when things are busy, your son tends to do "x", how do you think we can react to help your son not do "x" which frightens/upsets/angers the other kids".    I think getting in the habit of informing all children who are playing at your home or in your yard of the expectations you have of them is always a good idea.  In my yard we do not throw things other than balls, we do not hit, kick or push.  We do have fun and play nicely and take turns.  If you have a problem that you cannot solve yourselves, please come and get me and I will help you.  When the boy comes over, include him on the speech so he knows what is expected of him.  Have consequences prepared for all children who do not comply - that way he is not singled out.  You may also want to share what you are doing with the other parents.


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#29 of 58 Old 02-13-2012, 06:48 AM
 
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Love-

I have removed your post.  Please take the time to read the special needs parenting forum guidlines. 

 

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Parenting the special needs child comes with many rewards and challenges that are unique to each family. This forum is a place to discuss these issues with like-minded members. The forum is open to all members and we encourage everyone to share and join in the discussions. Though in doing so, please be respectful of the forums purpose and the feelings of all our members.
 

Linda-

Your posts are becoming more and more personal, and you need to take a step back.  The OP came here for advice and with good intentions.  Please keep this in mind when responding. 


 
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#30 of 58 Old 02-13-2012, 06:55 AM
 
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I am sorry this is offending anyone, believe me that wasn't my intention.  I think I used was as precise language as a parent of a non-special needs child could.  Obviously if my child was hitting and teasing and taunting it would be called bullying

  One of your earliest posts involved you instructing your children to use flippant phrases like "Go fly a kite" and so on.  And thinking this was OK because the special needs boy laughed (probably because he didn't understand the context). I think plenty of parents of non special needs children can manage better than that, it sounds like a tease, and it's confusing and inappropriate. My children's school would consider the phrases to be a case of bullying as much as a name call.  Bullying is when someone with more power controls and frightens someone with less power.  Older or not, does this boy really have a position of power over your kids? Hitting and name calling are obvious (I won't use teasing as an example because teasing requires understanding the social end of things more than it sounds like this boy can do).  Excluding, using sarcasm or harming someone's reputation are also bullying, but harder to notice, and neurotypical kids are pretty adept at this sort of bullying.  Most people have been on either side of the fence, or a bystander, at some point in their lives, your kids included.  I think this boy and his Mom are being somewhat villainized.  It's easier for him to be caught at his behavior because he doesn't know how to cover it up.  I don't think you mean offense, and I don't want to pick apart everything you said, but I really do think you could do with help with communication skills with any child.  We're on the second page of this thread and I still have no idea of whether the hitting is a jab or shove or really injurious, I have no idea as to what constitutes taunting, and the name calling sounds equivalent to what I hear on just about any playground from any kid (I work in the public school system) if they think the adults don't hear.

 

 

  If I was told my child was no longer allowed to ride the bus for the rest of the year because of poor behavior, I would consider him kicked off the bus.  I am sorry I am ignorant to the different phrases that pertain to special needs children in these situations.  That was the reason I wanted to ask parents of special needs children some advise- because I thought that if I asked on the regular parenting board, the advice would just be "keep your kids away from him", or "tell the boy he can't play with your kids" and I wanted to see if there was a way I could avoid that.  

 

Try the regular parenting board, too.  I bet some of those parents would also say that you need to be clear and that you need to supervise and mentor your kids.  That's just good, general parenting advice.

 

I was hoping to get some examples like "when my kids does this, this is what I say and that tends to help"- that type of thing.  I did get some good advice to be very literal and clear about what he can and can't do but this is going to require me to be on top of him and my kids all the time while they are playing and with a baby, this is going to be hard.  

 

Put the baby in a sling, bring everything you need, and watch your kids!  Anyone who has had multiple children in close succession has to do this (I had my three children in a four year period, and I was in a shared public space situation like yourself until the youngest was a year old).  Childcare workers do this.  People in busy cities with unsafe streets do this.  It isn't just people who have special needs kids who do this.  It sounds like you have a six year old, that is pretty young to be playing unsupervised away from a back yard or a quick walk to school with a buddy situation.  I live in farm and forest country with less safety factors (outside of wildlife and perhaps getting lost) to deal with, and still, most six year olds around here have a parent or a baby sitter age (11or so) sibling around if they are out of sight of the house.  If your pool doesn't have a lifeguard, you should be there, anyway, and if it does, then the lifeguard can be made aware of safety issues.

 

 

I don't think this situation is particularly about special needs, other than maybe needing to be especially clear.  The parenting boards are full of situations with difficult neighbourhood children situations.  Any advice you've been given (with exception to the ridiculous one about calling cps, the mother does seem to be handling some of the issues, it just sounds like she sees the "bullying" differently from you) is good sound advice for all parents of all kids.

 



 


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