school thinks 8yo has adhd, but im not convinced. Help! - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 89 Old 11-16-2013, 01:23 PM
 
MaggieLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A Neurologist is a medical doctor who specializes in conditions of the nervous system and the brain. Some conditions require brain imaging and some don't. Our oldest child had CT scan and an EEG to test the electrical workings of the brain and to rule out epilepsy or organic brain problems. Our youngest did not have these tests because we already had a family history of TS.

We've had good luck with neurologists treating both myself and our kids. They diagnose every thing from migraines to Tourette to epilepsy to MS and more.

Children require a Pediatric Neurologist as the immature and developing neurological system is very different than treating adults.

They are more highly trained than regular Pediatricians in dxing and tresting neurological disorders.

Your best bet is to see one at a Uni Teaching hospital if possible as they have the best experience and training and see a variety of situations.

It may take a while to get an appointment but the results are well worth it.
forestmushroom likes this.

Attachment Parenting: The radical notion that children are human. bfinfant.gif
MaggieLC is offline  
#62 of 89 Old 11-16-2013, 01:55 PM
 
MaggieLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Like I said I have no idea if your son has TS or not. The meds used in treating TS are not used to "keep the child quiet" When TS is severe enough it prevents the child from functioning properly and can cause pain and cause the child to be stared at teased and tormented. The meds if they are necessary only help the ticcing calm they NEVER eliminate them completely. And a lot of kids who have mild TS never take meds at all but you'd want to know if this type of situation is going on with your child. Plus Ped Neuros can diagnose many things. Our Neuros are one of the best allies in our life with a neuro atypical family.

Attachment Parenting: The radical notion that children are human. bfinfant.gif
MaggieLC is offline  
#63 of 89 Old 11-16-2013, 03:44 PM
 
melissa17s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ia
Posts: 2,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I would be leary of just getting a brain scan to get a scan.  CT's can give a lot of radiation and should not be used unnecessarily.  MRI are better in regards to radiation, but are more challenging for kids that fidget in anyway.  I do not think a doc/neurologist would be willing to recommend unless there was a credible concern.  

 

Neurologists really treat issues that are medical.  Psychologists and psychiatrist are the ones that deal with the mental aspects of the brain.  Our neurologist has struggled to help us with any of ds's issues that are not medical and therefore he has made a connection and works with ds's psychologist to give more effective over all treatment.  

melissa17s is offline  
#64 of 89 Old 11-16-2013, 06:25 PM
 
MaggieLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Our oldest child had scans because of the Tourettes and also because she had seizures from some vaccines and they had to rule out epilepsy and organic brain damage. Most Ped Neuros don't do CT scans for uncomplicated ADD dxes.

Attachment Parenting: The radical notion that children are human. bfinfant.gif
MaggieLC is offline  
#65 of 89 Old 11-16-2013, 09:17 PM
 
melissa17s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ia
Posts: 2,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

MaggieLC, CT would not rule out epilepsy, unfortunately.  If that were true, ds would be in the clear :(   It would however show areas with brain damage.  They use to look for tumors, injury (bleeding, swelling, fluid, clot), and lesions as causes of seizures or other symptoms.  EEG will show seizure, if someone has one will having the EEG.  My understanding is that although EEGs can do more, they are generally only used in regards to seizures.  A similar set up is also used for sleep studies. I think may see more EEG for adhd dx in the future.  

Some tics can be very similar to simple partial seizures.  So hard sometimes to identify what is going on.         

melissa17s is offline  
#66 of 89 Old 11-17-2013, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieLC View Post

Our oldest child had scans because of the Tourettes and also because she had seizures from some vaccines and they had to rule out epilepsy and organic brain damage. Most Ped Neuros don't do CT scans for uncomplicated ADD dxes.

No add dx yet.

contactmaya is offline  
#67 of 89 Old 11-17-2013, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

My interest in the scan side of things was because i heard a talk  on  theglutensummit.com. One of the speakers was a  psychiatrist who used scans for many unconventional things, claiming, that if you cant see it, how do you know whats going on?

This is his website, and adhd is one of his specialties.

http://www.amenclinics.com/conditions/adhd-add

 

ps. thankyou for the useful information in your above post.

contactmaya is offline  
#68 of 89 Old 11-17-2013, 08:58 AM
 
melissa17s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ia
Posts: 2,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post
 

My interest in the scan side of things was because i heard a talk  on  theglutensummit.com. One of the speakers was a  psychiatrist who used scans for many unconventional things, claiming, that if you cant see it, how do you know whats going on?

This is his website, and adhd is one of his specialties.

http://www.amenclinics.com/conditions/adhd-add

 

ps. thankyou for the useful information in your above post.

 

I do not know, if this is possible.  http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/neuroimaging-and-mental-illness-a-window-into-the-brain/index.shtml   I think spect scans are not adviced for children.  The only real difference I see in the dx process between the clinic you linked to and the psychologist my ds went to for his neuropsych exam was the spect scan. I would discuss the pros and cons with the doctor you decide to work with.  

melissa17s is offline  
#69 of 89 Old 11-17-2013, 11:55 AM
 
livinglife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)

Contact Maya, Dr. Amen has done some interesting work, to compare scans of brains of people with certain disorders, to those without, to scan the brains of those taking certain supplements and compare them to those who do not.

 

Like most things that can be learned about from books and online (I have his books and he does PBS specials as well) there's a difference between the kind of cutting edge work he is doing and well established best practices for diagnosis.  I am not a skeptic by any means.  I think he's a visionary.  But, he's also the kind of MD who sells books, supplements and hope.  Be careful you don't get swept in and invalidate in your mind a best practices diagnosis because no scan was done to confirm what his brain looks like.   If I were you I would read his book on supplements.  The name eludes me right now....I'll remember at 3am ;)  His premise is we can change the health and functioning of our neurological make up through herbal and nutritional supplements, an approach that is not unlike many others discussed here...that dietary changes, gut health etc can improve neurological and nervous system functioning. 

livinglife is online now  
#70 of 89 Old 11-17-2013, 05:02 PM
 
sageowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Not much new to add here, except that with a diagnosis like ADHD or ADD, the behavior has to occur in ALL SETTINGS (home, school, community).  If it's only happening at school, it's not ADD/ADHD.

sageowl is offline  
#71 of 89 Old 11-17-2013, 09:14 PM
 
Letitia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)

ContactMaya, I feel like such a rookie to this compared to some of the others on this board, but I really feel for you.  Our daughter (1st grade) had neuropsych testing in July that was very supportive of ADHD.  That was NO surprise to us or her grandparents, even though she had always been a quiet kid in groups and had no problems in kindergarten.  That is, we had heard of no problems, but when we asked her kindergarten teacher if she had seen anything consistent with ADHD, she thought about it, then it was like gears meshed in her head and she said she had seen exactly what we saw.  But other people who know her peripherally?  A lot of confusion.

 

ADHD is a big-time, popular-press diagnosis.  Everybody has heard of it, and everybody imagines the talkative little boy who can't stay in his chair.  It's as if the only animal you had ever seen was a big white furry Great Pyrenees, and you knew it was a dog, so dogs are animals who are big, white and furry.  Then if you see a polar bear, you'll call it a dog.  If you see a dachshund it's not a dog.  That way, kids who fidget all have ADHD and kids who don't look like the stereotype are missed by people who don't pay attention to them as closely as parents.  So maybe you have a polar bear and we have a dachshund?  It seems related.

 

Our family is very early in this process of finding specific ways to help our kid, but we have found a few things very helpful so far.  1) The neuropsych testing was #1:  it identified not just her challenges, but some big strengths.  2) My partner has volunteered in both classrooms.  We have the luxury to do this because she doesn't work full-time, but it did take some sacrifices.  Completely worth it.  We have a much better idea what her teachers are seeing or missing.  3) We have pursued every local lead we could find, which has led to a lot of conversations with a lot of types of specialists.  Some of them have been nuts.  But we did discover that our daughter has some vision and motor issues, and therapy is helping those in leaps and bounds.  4) We are in a small city, and while our local public schools provide all sorts of therapies, the therapists (I know some) are spread thin and waits are long.  We have found it worth our money to go outside the schools.

 

Finally, I think this is true of any profession - some people are better than others at whatever thing they are doing.  I know this from my own job.  I cross paths professionally with a lot of mental health providers, including about 15 psychiatrists.  "Psychiatrist"?  Means nothing to me.  Tells me somebody did a residency in psychiatry after getting an MD.  From my everyday work I know that some of them are really bright and some of them are dumb as stumps; some of them are passionate about their work, and some are bleary and burned out.  I really wouldn't trust any psychiatrist to spot subtle clues in a 5 minute visit.  That's an awfully quick snapshot, and what it would suggest to me as a parent is that the psychiatrist is  there to rubber-stamp, or possibly he/she is burned-out or not so bright, and just trying to make a living.  The best psychiatrist we've been in contact with about our daughter has has been an unbelievable source of information and strategy.  If you don't feel like your son's evaluation was done with intelligence and thoughtfulness, then move on, find someone better.   

 

My daughter's not on meds now, but she's also making progress in leaps and bounds with other strategies.  I can't say she'll never be on them, we just have to see.  It's hard, but I do feel pretty good about the team we have to help us sort out that kind of decision.  

Letitia is offline  
#72 of 89 Old 11-18-2013, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sageowl View Post
 

Not much new to add here, except that with a diagnosis like ADHD or ADD, the behavior has to occur in ALL SETTINGS (home, school, community).  If it's only happening at school, it's not ADD/ADHD.

Thankyou for  repeating this important point, which the many specialists seem to forget.

contactmaya is offline  
#73 of 89 Old 11-18-2013, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letitia View Post
 

ContactMaya, I feel like such a rookie to this compared to some of the others on this board, but I really feel for you.  Our daughter (1st grade) had neuropsych testing in July that was very supportive of ADHD.  That was NO surprise to us or her grandparents, even though she had always been a quiet kid in groups and had no problems in kindergarten.  That is, we had heard of no problems, but when we asked her kindergarten teacher if she had seen anything consistent with ADHD, she thought about it, then it was like gears meshed in her head and she said she had seen exactly what we saw.  But other people who know her peripherally?  A lot of confusion.

 

ADHD is a big-time, popular-press diagnosis.  Everybody has heard of it, and everybody imagines the talkative little boy who can't stay in his chair.  It's as if the only animal you had ever seen was a big white furry Great Pyrenees, and you knew it was a dog, so dogs are animals who are big, white and furry.  Then if you see a polar bear, you'll call it a dog.  If you see a dachshund it's not a dog.  That way, kids who fidget all have ADHD and kids who don't look like the stereotype are missed by people who don't pay attention to them as closely as parents.  So maybe you have a polar bear and we have a dachshund?  It seems related.

 

 

I love your metaphor. As for volunteering in the classroom, i am not sure how open they are to that. I have often considered it.  But they have never once mentioned the possibility....it doesnt seem like parents are really welcome anywhere near the kids once they start school, ime. They want parents to  volunteer for trips...

 

Quick update- the IEP revue has been scheduled, and the FM system will be given to us at the meeting.

 

Also the speech and language evaluation revealed mild to moderate  impairment in receptive language skills, and mild pragmatic language impairment....

contactmaya is offline  
#74 of 89 Old 01-29-2014, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

My 8yo son (the subject of this thread) had a neuropsych but the results are not back. I just emailed the evaluator (M) a question, and thought i would post it here, in case anyone could help me understand the situation better. I just copy-pasted the email (minus the names)

 

I would be grateful to hear from anyone who could help me understand this situation better....thanks in advance for your time :-)

 

The email:

 

 

Hi M ,

I have been meaning to discuss one or two things with you and see what you think.

 

I have been helping A (my 8yo son who had the neuropsych and is the subject of this thread) with homework that involved my reading and his listening and answering questions. It doesnt take long for him to start playing up, wriggling, fidgeting, and when i ask him questions, he often doesnt remember or finds it difficult to answer. I do this work with his younger brother R  at the same time,  and the contrast is striking, since R  is gungo ho at answering questions, and doesnt have trouble listening to the text, even though he is almost 3 years younger.

 

Since school is mostly comprised of this sort of thing-the teacher talking, the student listening and responding, i can see why A  looks like he has adhd is that environment. I got a glimpse of what teachers deal with all day long but that i rarely see.

 

(It is R , who exhibits more the adhd type behaviors in the home environment, ie, needs to move around alot, doesnt seem to focus well on one activity. However, at school he seems to do well, and thrives with adult guidance, and in the listening/verbal environment. For that reason, i hope it never becomes relevant.)

 

At home, A  (the subject of this thread) is the sensible one, able to sit still for long periods and focus on an activity he desires. He practises piano,  likes to work through workbooks,  has good table manners ( he always sat well behaved at the table from a young age, unlike his brother), he has good self control in general.

 

That is,  A 's behavior, when dealing with a  spoken language, looks like adhd. But as far as life in general is concerned, quite the opposite. He is sensible, mature,  thoughtful, and has good self control.

 

The contrast is so striking, as i said above, it deserves a mention and an explanation.

 

Im at a loss to understand specifically what it is about language that throws him. He was diagnosed with mild-moderate language receptive disorder, and  borderline auditory processing disorder. I suppose thats it.

 

I would be grateful if you could help me understand why A  is like this, and how he can be helped.

 

I know i have probably repeated myself ad nauseum on this subject, but i just want to summarize by saying

 

1) A  responds to spoken language, in its natural form, or from reading aloud, with adhd like behaviors, but such behaviors are not present elsewhere.

This is the situation all day long at school, and quite frankly, it must be absolutely exhausting for him (as well as the teachers no doubt, it drove me crazy in just 20minutes)

 

2)in a testing situation, so much is based on spoken language, that it might be hard to distinguish his adhd behaviors from true adhd, and how could this be taken into account?

 

Focus and attention is not necessarily his problem, its his relationship with language that is the problem.

 

I would be interested to know how the neuropsych results shed light on this.

 

Thanks for any clarification. (contactmaya)

 

 

 

 

 

 

contactmaya is offline  
#75 of 89 Old 01-29-2014, 08:49 AM
 
Polliwog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,065
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
I bet (based on my experience and that of my DS) that the APD plays a big part in his challenges at school.
Polliwog is online now  
#76 of 89 Old 01-29-2014, 01:32 PM
 
sageowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Based on your description that does sound a lot like auditory processing versus ADHD. After all if you get bombarded with input that you don't understand you probably get nervous and fidgety too. The best analogy that I can think of is if you had to listen to someone talking in another language all day long. After a while your brain starts to tune out.
sageowl is offline  
#77 of 89 Old 01-29-2014, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sageowl View Post

Based on your description that does sound a lot like auditory processing versus ADHD. After all if you get bombarded with input that you don't understand you probably get nervous and fidgety too. The best analogy that I can think of is if you had to listen to someone talking in another language all day long. After a while your brain starts to tune out.


It must be the most alienating expereince, poor kid....

contactmaya is offline  
#78 of 89 Old 01-29-2014, 07:11 PM
 
mariee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Ok, I have to admit I've not read previous responses, but everything you are describing about his behavior can certainly be attributed to Sensory Processing Disorder.  My biggest questions are 1. Has he recently been evaluated by an OT by doing a Sensory Profile and 2. Is he seeing an OT regularly for therapy?  

 

If not, those are definitely the first two steps to take. You can take him to an OT for evaluation and certainly pay for it out of your own pocket if you want it done right away.  The most recent one we had done was about $100, so its really not that expensive and you have immediate results.  The OT should give you a Sensory Profile to complete and he/she will spend time with your child in observation.  

 

If your son starts therapy with an OT, he can work on all of the issues that you mentioned him having in the classroom.  

mariee is offline  
#79 of 89 Old 01-30-2014, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

Thanks for your input.  He has been evaluated and has OT. I still dont get how it is specifically with spoken language that the issues arise. If he does have sensory issues (other than auditory) it certainly doesnt impact his life in anyway that i can see at home. In a crowd/classroom, he has trouble following the teacher (APD) might be overwhelmed by too much stimuli (maybe, i dont see it at home). But its  when interacting with spoken language that th symptoms arise.

 

How does SPD affect language processing specifically? (other than APD specifically)

contactmaya is offline  
#80 of 89 Old 02-02-2014, 11:39 AM
 
sageowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
SPD effects would be apparent in all settings, and usually in multiple domains. It can be a factor at times with attention, and affect what input is received by the brain, but it doesn't directly affect language processing In quite the same way that APD does. What you describe sounds more like APD symptoms to me...not that I'm any kind of expert on the subject.

Regardless of what it IS, I hope you find an answer soon, so you'll have the right tools/strategies to help your child succeed.
sageowl is offline  
#81 of 89 Old 02-02-2014, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

Thanks.

 

Actually, in attempt to make sense of this, i did a bit of googling-questions like-  ' how is ADHD distinguishable from language disorder in a clinicial setting'. Despite several attempts and rephrasing, i didnt get any answers to that particular question, but i did get alot of articles that talked about the co morbidity of ADHD and language disorders-up to 60% of kids with ADHD have language disorders. That is very  surprising the me, and the first time i have heard that. This especially so because  one of the common adhd symptoms is  a kid speaking in class too much, or too actively participating in discussions. Ie, someone who  has a good language skills, but  weak self control.  Noone has ever mentioned that so many adhd  kids have language issues .Certainly not any of the specialists or school personel.  In other words, the fact that my son has  disorders related to language  is almost a give away that he has adhd.

You would think, that given this high statistic, the correlation would be better known. For eg, if your 2yo has a speech delay, watch out for adhd symptoms as well....

 

Nowhere,  and i have been at this for a couple of days- have i come across anything that  offers tips on how one would distinguish language  disorders from adhd. Not one article. Just  a scant mention that there were subjects with adhd, and  subjects without.

 

Given that langauge disorders  look like adhd, (become fidgety in verbal environment, have trouble following  spoken language, not remembering what is said-it all looks like not paying attention), you would think more has been discussed on the subject.

 

I still havent got a detailed reply from the neuropsych,  but she did mention that my DS lost interest in things, and fidgted alot and that  she felt she had adhd. I did ask for more specifics, for eg,  what tests did my son do, that actually differentiated symptoms of language disorders from true adhd, but havent got a reply yet.

 

There was mention in one article that  certain  adhd medications also improved language performance...but this seemed to be contraversial. It ws also only mentioned in the context that the subject definitely had ADHD and language disorder together.

contactmaya is offline  
#82 of 89 Old 02-02-2014, 07:19 PM
 
mariee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I don't know, but I can tell you that my son's SPD is so strange....  He can be very calm when he is home with just me and baby sister.  But if we introduce even one more person into the equation, (even my husband coming home from work!) it is like instant overresponsiveness to EVERYTHING.  He immediately goes into input seeking mode and starts crashing into furniture, walls, people.  He starts running back and forth across the room over and over, throwing things in the air, etc.  And he definitely does not respond or seem to process any verbal directions from us....  

mariee is offline  
#83 of 89 Old 02-03-2014, 02:25 PM
 
sageowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That could be anxiety about novelty/change--it's pretty common, actually. Some kids tantrum or engage in SIB , others react by getting "silly" or more active.

For what it's worth my son does exactly what you describe. wink1.gif

Either way, the trigger and response to it is usually different than the shutting down that comes with APD, where the child withdraws/becomes less responsive first, then once the frustration threshold is reached, exhibits more of the acting out types of behaviors that would be expected with SPD.
sageowl is offline  
#84 of 89 Old 02-05-2014, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

I looked at some of those tests that test for attention specifically, and were not verbally based, nor so boring that no normal person would sustain attention for long unless they were being paid....ie, some of the tests are contraversial. Nonetheless, i asked the neuropsych evaluator which tests she actually did,...but of course she hasnt answered yet.

 

One of them is called PADDS.

 

In the meantime, i will make sure DS does these tests under my supervision, before i will ever accept he has issues with attention. (he proves to me every day that he doesnt)

 

Cant wait to find out, but these people never answer me! i guess i didnt pay them enough.

 

As i told her-i just want to understand my son.

 

Even in a neurospych, the adhd word is thrown around  more on the grounds of school teacher reporting (even if it contradicts the parent)  than objective testing. Surprising, but true.

 

All i can say is, thank Gd im skeptical about anything and everything.

 

 

However, as usual, i stand to be  corrected if given  the evidence.

 

Thats just my update when i dont have an update....

contactmaya is offline  
#85 of 89 Old 03-31-2014, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

Well, i got the neuropsych eval, which they labelled an psychoeducational eval. The director said not to get hung up on labels ....but frankly, im disappoined in whatever this eval is. It only reveals what i already knew-weakness in any area that requires  strong language skills (VCI), high superior range in areas of abstract reason (PRI), so he's impaired in one area, and  very superior in another.

VMI  superior, but PSI impaired (he  refused to do some of the tests)...

 

Has adhd, because he doesnt finish tasks/refuses to do tests. (motivation people? He didnt want to do it. Had i known he didnt do  some of the tests, i would have paid him for it. I would have said, the tests are boring, but you have to do the best you can. Ill pay you for it, because this is after all your weekend, and everyone else involved, (except me) is getting paid) He fidgets in the clinical setting (of course, he fidgets whenever you talk at him or want him to talk alot back to you, THATS the  problem. Dont describe it to me, I KNOW, explain WHY)

 

Scored in the superior range in certain academic areas (reading for eg) ,but in the impaired range in simple addition (he didnt want to do it, but excels at home 4th grade level fractions although he in 3rd grade-im not  worried about his academic propensity,  so why did they test that? Im worried about why he cant learn optimally in the classroom setting....

 

So i feel like the whole thing was a waste of time.

 

Why was this suggested to me  by experienced parents? What specifically about a neuropsych would be helpful? I wish i knew. Anyone?

 

Basically, the eval just described what i already knew, without explaining why, and how he could be helped. (other than the usual recommendations of giving him active breaks, and psychotherpsy for his low self esteem from his negative classroom experience...that we had already figured out...)

 

I dont know, where is this light at the end of the tunnel?

 

Im wondering how his extremely superior skills at memory and perceptive reasoning, combined with his inability to express it in language, can be used  in his favor? Maybe just give him wads of rote learning...why not? Maybe the old fashioned system would have worked for him.... would computer coding be something he would like? Btw, his  score at coding was a laughable 5 (out of 100) he didnt want to do it. It is a very boring clerical kind of task.  I  myself would only do such a thing if being paid, or if it was for a very good reason (like filing a tax return) I mean, people only do that kind of thing if sufficiently motivated. Some people might find it therapeutic, perhaps while hungover.

 

Of course, no  adequate explanation for why his adhd  behaviors are only present at school at not at home, nor were my questions (also posted on this thread)  answered in any way....

contactmaya is offline  
#86 of 89 Old 04-01-2014, 05:29 AM
 
livinglife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)

Contact Maya, some of my best answers come when I stop trying to "figure it out" and just trust that with time I will discover what I need to know.  You can work with what you got from the evaluation.  It confirmed what you already knew.  It's not rocket science.  You're an in tune mom who knows their child.  Of course you knew what the testing would reveal.  But, the school can't make recommendations on your "word".  Isn't that what some of your conversation was about.  That you could tell them what he needs and that they wouldn't value your opinion.  The neuropsych is confirmation of your son's educational strengths and weaknesses and gives his teachers a road map for the best way to teach him.

 

Some reports are better than other's at tying a big picture together.  I had one, that was truly wonderful.  It helped all of us, teachers and me, see my son in a whole new light.  Of course that has to do with the skill and experience of the clinician.  Sometimes, it is because of the picture has become more clear as your child is older.

 

He got an ADHD diagnosis.  O.K.  If there are useful recommendations from the report that's wonderful.  You do NOT have to use medication for your child.  My son has residual issues after falling off the spectrum and his most prominent one is "variable" attention although he has no ADHD diagnosis.  His teachers are using a very helpful method to assist him in training his attention to go deeper and more focused into his work instead of scattering his attention when he's bored or if the work is frustrating him.  It's working extremely well and if it weren't I would try something else until it worked.   You also seem that determined.  I'd suggest, you channel your frustration into finding ways at school to help your son cope with his need to move, his desire to fix his attention away from a speaker and his lack of motivation for boring repetative tasks.  It is possible to work with these issues in really productive ways.  And, yes, I do "pay" my son....as you joked you would with yours if you knew the testing was boring.  It DOES motivate.  I sometimes "pay" him with Ipad time, sometimes with a dollar for an A, and I have used other motivators over the years....like seeing a movie.  What ever works at the time.  And it is helpful to think of ways to give an incentive to him for just about anything that is harder for him to accomplish because he just isn't that motivated to do it.  Some people need external motivation. 

 

You're on the right track.  Consider working with his special education teacher on an "awareness" or metacognition chart, where your son rates his own concentration and behavior in key challenging areas.  Awareness charts, with an add up feature at the end, will help him keep track of his own concentration and behavior.  Improving scores, or a score in a certain range can equal something, like computer time, money or another incentive.  The trick is to help him take more responsibility for his own attention and behavior and you're acknowledging it's hard for him by offering him the reward.

 

Let me know if you want to see an example of such a chart.  It works really well for my son.

 

Best

livinglife is online now  
#87 of 89 Old 04-01-2014, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

Absolutely! That would be great :-) Thankyou

 

Im just not sure how the strengths revealed in this eval, (and some not revealed because he wouldnt do the tests) can be used to his advantage...and why the deficit  in language...

 

Another question im putting out there- is it typical to have highly divergent scores on subtests of the nepsy-ii which tests for executive function? Ie, he scored in both the superior and low average range depending on the subtest. Dont know how a superior score validates attentional difficulty, but instead confirms the image of  the child i know at home, who  focuses well on certain tasks (not including screens)....

contactmaya is offline  
#88 of 89 Old 04-01-2014, 01:04 PM
 
livinglife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)

Sigh...this is a common complaint of parents of children with special needs.  I feel defensive around this one personally.  I've never felt my son has had an evaluation that's ever revealed his true intelligence.  Partly, it's because he hasn't tried very hard and didn't care enough about it to do well, and partly, because the test itself requires executive functioning skills like delayed gratification (because, as you say, he'd rather be doing something else) which has never been his strong suit.  One thing that I found, is that I just had to give it and him time, that his most recent evaluation he cared more about and reflected more of who he truly is as a learner as a result.  He has developed a stronger identity as a student with more maturity and approached the test with a desire to do as well as he could.  Scores, interestingly, do tend to improve with a certain subset of children, as they mature, leading you to think that they become more intelligent with time.  Not so....we parents know better ;) 

 

Maybe a psychologist on this forum can pop in about your question regarding his executive functioning scores.  Personally, I think if he's in the superior range in some skills, he has significant strengths to draw from.  That would be how i'd read it.  Hopefully you are happy for him that he has a lot going for him!  All his superior scores lead directly to his compensatory strategies.  All his weak scoring shows you where he needs to be shored up.  That's why this testing is helpful.  Why he did poorly, for all intents and purposes, we can really only guess at.  Your guess and his teachers is better than my guess.  But, you can know, in general he won't do well in the tasks he scored poorly on unless you can help him shore up his weaknesses.  Everyone's job is to figure out how to build his motivation, skills and learning. 

 

My son has working memory in the superior range, something you don't see in kids with attention difficulties.  But, he has a very slow processing speed, due to his need to contextualize language.  Slow processing speed is typical in children with ADHD but a superior working memory is not.  It doesn't mean he isn't having trouble attending to tasks.   And, only those tasks that require complex language and multi step directions.  Makes sense, yes, for someone who has a pragmatic language disorder, formerly on the spectrum ;)  His variable attention is what is most in his way to learn at his best right now, so, giving it focus and trying to help him is only to his advantage.

 

My son uses his excellent memory for what he's learned to keep him on task.  He's learned too not to rely exclusively on his memory but to allow himself to slow down and think through what he's doing so that he can understand clearly the language used.  He is being taught awareness of his strengths and weaknesses and how it relates to his day at school.

 

The salient point is for you and the staff is to take the findings and not teach a child with "adhd".....but to teach your child to his strengths and shore up his weaknesses.

 

So, i'd suggest you read the testing, looking for where he did very well.  Read for where he did poorly....if a big picture isn't clear to you regarding what exactly his strengths and weaknesses are, ask for another meeting with the evaluator or ask them to do a summary of your child's learning strengths and weaknesses.  Many evaluations have one provided but if this one does not ask them for it.

 

I will dig out an example of my son's chart at school.....they've done a wonderful job with him.  It is entirely possible to create change without medication.

 

Best

livinglife is online now  
#89 of 89 Old 04-01-2014, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
contactmaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

It sounds like your and my ds have a fair bit in common.

 

Although...delayed gratification is definitely something my son is good at, certainly in daily life. Im thinking the next time an evaluation is called for, i will tell him he gets 25c per question answered, whether its too easy, too difficult or too boring The object is to answer it to the best of his ability. I bet he'll enjoy adding up those quarters....

 

Also, i believe confidence, like you say, makes a big difference  as a motivator  for these tests. Who wants to push on when you know you're going to do badly? But what a nice reward at the end to be told you did well.  So there is  somehwat of a vicious circle at play here.

 

Im still trying to work out what divergent scores on the NEPSY-ii signifies....

contactmaya is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off