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#1 of 89 Old 11-08-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This is probably going to be long....i hope someone who can advise or  who has experienced something similar can share....(thats if you can get through it...)

 

Ive posted before about my 5yo who showed symptoms of adhd at home. I took him off gluten, and they mostly disappeared.

Then he started Kindergarten, and guess what, not only is he not showing any signs of adhd, he's getting raving reports, socially, academically, and in any area you care to name. He participates in class, learns quickly, responds well to teachers and as an added bonus is Mr popularity.

 

But a mother is only as happy as her least happy child. and this post is not about him. This post is about his older brother, who is 8, and is third grade.

(im tearing up as i write this, because i dont see a solution for him in sight)

 

On the surface my 8yo, is the most easy going, considerate, and bright child. He co- operates at home, he is reasonable, he is good at coming up with solutions, he has the sweetest nature (wanted to share his toys when a toddler for eg), loves other people, learns quickly, and guess what, has what i would call an above age level ability to focus. From a young age, he didnt bore of things, but stayed focused and learned.

 

Then he started school, and started making noises in class, was disruptive, never participated in class discussions. We have a small school and they send us daily reports. My sons name never appeared anywhere, he just never  contributed to the discussion, but did get sent out of the classroom alot.

 

We got him evaluated, and sure enough he had a bunch of sensory issues going on. However, i noticed that he exhibited the problematic behaviors whenever he was doing work that involved  complex verbal information, but excelled if  ideas were presented visually.

Much of my own research led me to the term  Auditory Processing Disorder.

3years later, he got an official diagnosis. ( you cant be diagnosed until 7)

 

 Now in third grade,  he is showing no signs of improving as far as his disruptive behaviors in a highly verbal context  are concerned. For some classes he is taken by the teacher one on one. He simply doesnt function in the group setting, because he is missing 50% of what is going on.

 

But despite the diagnosis, and the recommendation of an FM system (still hasnt arrived), the teachers are  saying he has attention issues.

 

The thing is, from my non professional understanding (just a mom without a degree in these things), almost everything they describe as attentional, is actually a symptom of his APD-who would pay attention when they cant process the sound? Its too tiring. 

 

He is also dealing with the other sensory issues- he fidgets alot (from my understanding, this is his way of grounding himself-proprioperception)

 

But the thing is, if he focuses well one of one, how is that a problem of attention?

Even the speech evaluator (the diagnosis of apd  also brought with it a recommendation of speech therapy), said he sat through the complex speech questions very well, but fidgeted the whole time(well yeah, its challenging for him to make sense of complex and often meaningless sentence structures, but he stuck with it, because, that is my kid!)

 

Since when is the propensity to fidget  lead to a diagnosis of adhd? I thought it was a sensory issue, ie, a person trying to find their body is space, especially in a challenging environment. So what if he fidgets? Let the kid fidget!! Give him a fidget ball...

 

However, i am not at school with him, and his teacher  (who is very understanding and great to work with, but not an expert either in these matters), said there are so many examples of what shes sees as attentional rather than mere APD or sensory issues. When she names them, i see that they are more a symptom of apd, ie, too much verbal info.  Or just as likely a symptom of sensory overload. (but she hasnt named all of them)

 

Ive heard of  so called adhd diagnosed children taking the medication, and it doesnt help. Theres a good chance that its because they dont really have adhd.

 

But what do i know about this problem?   Just that it doesnt make sense to treat the symptom rather than the cause.

 

But what if he actually did have adhd?

(So many teachers and professionals cant  be wrong (except that none of them know anything about apd)

 

When i asked my doc can adhd  be ruled out, she said there was no way to do so. But can it be confirmed? How is it confirmed if  its just based on a teachers description of symptoms of other issues?

 

I took him to dept of education appointed psychiatrist, back when i wanted him to have  OT in Kindergarten. He could not get OT based on the  occupational therapists recommendation , he needed a dx of adhd. So i sought it.

 

We sat in a dark room, my then 5 yo in front of the psychiatrist, and older man, and me on the side. We just sat there. Ds starts to fidget...bingo! Adhd. Diagnosis achieved.

 

So i dont take it seriously.

 

How can i figure out whats really going on?

 

Btw, i tried coffee, pycagenol, and several so called remedies for adhd. The coffee perked him up, but did not calm him or center him (apparently for those with adhd, it has the opposite effect as most of us)

 

I havent tried any pharmeceuticals yet. And i am very afraid to do so. I feel it wont really help him, and will probably at best, actually be harmful to him.....

 

Also, he is shy by  nature, and doesnt dare to raise his hand even if he knows. He might quickly forget what he was going to say if chosen (another APD symptom)

 

Wont medication just make him even less confident?

 

He is also short stature but apparently within  the normal range. I am taking him to an endocrinologist.

 

Cant medication  also exacerbate  short stature?

 

I just dont know what to do.

 

First and foremost, i want to truly understand what is going on. I am not resisting a diagnosis of adhd for any other reason than i need to know the truth about things, and will fight hard to get it...

 

 Is adhd the inability for the brain to focus? Or is it inability to focus because of  sensory issues?  Is adhd always a symptom, or is it a true disorder? Maybe i just dont get it. Or maybe, it depends on which professional you are listening to, an audiologist calls it apd, and occupational therapist calls is sensory disorder, and a psychiatrist calls it attention disorder....

 

Fortunately,  the speech evaluator  believes in the existence of APD, as many professionals actually dont.

 

Help!!!

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#2 of 89 Old 11-08-2013, 10:12 AM
 
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Oh dear....Contactmaya, take a deep breath.  NO ONE can force you to give your child medication.  Your child's teacher cannot diagnose adhd and many "learning issues" can mimic signs of problem attention.

 

My son was in the 1st grade when I was told by his reading specialist that he didn't look like he had "learning problems" but attention problems.  My son was in the 2nd grade when his teacher told me that I should "bring him to his pediatrician and get a script for ritalin".  I was continuously advocating, explaining and calling attention to how my son was being "misinterpreted".

 

The only thing that eventually silenced all this, was, getting a complete neuropsychological report completed by someone I trusted, an outside evaluator, that explained his learning style, his weaknesses and strengths, and got a definitive diagnosis.  I would not have my child diagnosed by a psychiatrist.  I agree, usually they spend a short period of time with a patient and a diagnosis could overlook learning disabilities that would be uncovered by a more thorough battery of educational testing done by a neuropsychologist.  That's considered the "gold standard".  So, if you haven't already, seek out some one you trust for this kind of evaluation.  And, if it comes up with his teacher and school. make sure that you mention that he will be evaluated, and until that time, you are not prepared to discuss what a possible diagnosis could be as you think it is much more complicated then a case of ADHD and needs different interventions. 

 

You may remember from other posts, that my son got a spectrum diagnosis at age 8 almost 9.  For some children, who's behavior and learning style is high functioning but complicated, meaning it looks a little like a number of things and it is hard to know what, exactly it is and what it is NOT, it can take some time to flesh out exactly what is going on and your son should have that time.   Your instincts, to question an "easy" answer because it doesn't ring true, you should listen to.  You know your child. 

 

If it is possible to call a meeting, if your son already has an IEP,  tell them you'd like them to "presume" your son has APD based on earlier reports and make accomodations to help him, as well as work toward anticipating his behavior and give him appropriate sensory breaks to ameliorate his problem classroom behavior.  This way, you can get everyone thinking about how to help, instead of having him be punished for no fault of his own. 

 

This is really the heart breaking part, and something I totally understand.  I would get so upset at my son's school because I knew that his needs were being completely misunderstood.  He wasn't staring out the window or acting hyper because he had attention issues.  He was not connecting with the work....and didn't want to feel embarrassed or stupid so he acted in a "socially appropriate way" for a boy, which is to figet and act up.  It turns out that my son has a very concrete learning style and a poor short term memory.  When work was presented to him in short easily understood steps he did the work and learned well.  And what do you know, he didn't stare out the window any more!  He's now a VERY good student.  BUT, I remember feeling very sad, for a number of years.  If there is any one who "get's it" who can help you advocate, like his current speech therapist, that would also be helpful.

 

But, step one, is to get that neuropsych!

 

Contact Maya, you may also want to think about ways to support his learning and sensory system.  In my experience it has been possible to help my son's system mature.  I don't know what ultimately it may help him, but there are different pathways that can be "blocked" or not working optimally.  Dr. Amy Yasko writes about this.  Google her.  Removing gluten isn't working for him but find out what will.  People here some times have helpful tips, other times, you may find other helpful info in places where parents are supporting their children's detox, using the gaps diet or using the CEASE homeopathic protocal and inspiring homeopathy which can aid a child's development in moving forward.  Even good, solid, nutrition, such as perfect food, can help the brain function more optimally.

 

Don't give up...take heart.

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#3 of 89 Old 11-08-2013, 01:16 PM
 
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Crud, my response disappeared. I can post more later, but my son has both ADHD and CAPD. It's quite common for people to have other conditions along with APD. I don't know if you do Facebook but I'm a member of two excellent APD groups there. I have learned so much. I'm also a new member of two Yahoo groups.

I'm getting ready to share this video with all of DS's teacher. It really helps people get a glimpse into what APD "sounds" like. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vzegGXoZY30&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvzegGXoZY30
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#4 of 89 Old 11-08-2013, 07:22 PM
 
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I work with special needs kids at a school, and this is my take on your situation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

 

 

On the surface my 8yo, is the most easy going, considerate, and bright child. He co- operates at home, he is reasonable, he is good at coming up with solutions, he has the sweetest nature (wanted to share his toys when a toddler for eg), loves other people, learns quickly, and guess what, has what i would call an above age level ability to focus. From a young age, he didnt bore of things, but stayed focused and learned.

 

Then he started school, and started making noises in class, was disruptive, never participated in class discussions. We have a small school and they send us daily reports. My sons name never appeared anywhere, he just never  contributed to the discussion, but did get sent out of the classroom alot.

 

We got him evaluated, and sure enough he had a bunch of sensory issues going on. However, i noticed that he exhibited the problematic behaviors whenever he was doing work that involved  complex verbal information, but excelled if  ideas were presented visually.

Much of my own research led me to the term  Auditory Processing Disorder.

3years later, he got an official diagnosis. ( you cant be diagnosed until 7)

 

 Now in third grade,  he is showing no signs of improving as far as his disruptive behaviors in a highly verbal context  are concerned. For some classes he is taken by the teacher one on one. He simply doesnt function in the group setting, because he is missing 50% of what is going on.

 

But despite the diagnosis, and the recommendation of an FM system (still hasnt arrived), the teachers are  saying he has attention issues.

 

When is the FM system due to arrive? Once it gets here, help your son learn to advocate for himself. Some teacher forget to use it, or turn it on, or check to see if the batteries work. Also, help him learn to be responsible for taking it off at the end of the school, or you make sure if *god forbid,* it comes home, you put it in a very safe place and get it back the next day.
 

The teachers are not qualified AT ALL to dx anything. Most teachers know very, very little about special needs. Many don't even understand sensory issues. They can tell that something is going on with your son, so they are using the only words they have 'ADHD'. Please don't take that to mean they have any idea what is going on or what will help.

 

What else are they doing? What is his seating situation like? Is in any pull out/push in programs?

 

BTW, is the APD dx recognized by the school? Is he seeing a district audiologist? How many years since his last school district evaluation?
 

 

The thing is, from my non professional understanding (just a mom without a degree in these things), almost everything they describe as attentional, is actually a symptom of his APD-who would pay attention when they cant process the sound? Its too tiring. 

 

He is also dealing with the other sensory issues- he fidgets alot (from my understanding, this is his way of grounding himself-proprioperception)

 

But the thing is, if he focuses well one of one, how is that a problem of attention?

Even the speech evaluator (the diagnosis of apd  also brought with it a recommendation of speech therapy), said he sat through the complex speech questions very well, but fidgeted the whole time(well yeah, its challenging for him to make sense of complex and often meaningless sentence structures, but he stuck with it, because, that is my kid!)

 

I agree that fidgeting can be a sign of sensory issues. Does he currently have a "fidget" to play with at school? For our fidgety kids, we give them something to do with their hands that is sensory in nature. This can even be written into his IEP. We use different things for different kids, sometimes they are just little rubber toys like you see at the drug store, sometimes they are official therapy toys, and one child this year has a dog toy (it's indestructible and exactly what works for her).

 

Since when is the propensity to fidget  lead to a diagnosis of adhd? I thought it was a sensory issue, ie, a person trying to find their body is space, especially in a challenging environment. So what if he fidgets? Let the kid fidget!! Give him a fidget ball...

 

However, i am not at school with him, and his teacher  (who is very understanding and great to work with, but not an expert either in these matters), said there are so many examples of what shes sees as attentional rather than mere APD or sensory issues. When she names them, i see that they are more a symptom of apd, ie, too much verbal info.  Or just as likely a symptom of sensory overload. (but she hasnt named all of them)

 

Does she seem conversant about sensory issues? Has she talked about a sensory diet? Has she requested input from the school's occupational therapist for sensory issues (not for fine motor issues)?

 

Another thing that could be happening if his auditory needs aren't being met is that he is gradually spending more time acting like he doesn't when his auditory issues are problematic. I think that kids get into habits of behavior. If he doesn't have a fantastic sensory diet at school and amazing accommodations for APD, then for his behavior to leak over to other situations makes a lot of sense.

 

Besides, most teachers really don't get when their classroom is in a sensory overload. Any kid with sensory issues will flake out over things that *most* teachers just see as fun.

 

....

(So many teachers and professionals cant  be wrong (except that none of them know anything about apd)

 

Gen Ed teachers are not experts on special needs, and even special needs teachers only get an overview. You really need a complete neuropsych eval to sort this out. Sadly, so many teachers CAN BE wrong.

 

...

I took him to dept of education appointed psychiatrist, back when i wanted him to have  OT in Kindergarten. He could not get OT based on the  occupational therapists recommendation , he needed a dx of adhd. So i sought it.

 

We sat in a dark room, my then 5 yo in front of the psychiatrist, and older man, and me on the side. We just sat there. Ds starts to fidget...bingo! Adhd. Diagnosis achieved.

 

So i dont take it seriously.

 

You are right that you can't take that seriously, and it isn't even the psychiatrist fault. Your son needed the psychiatrist to write ADHD on a form, and the psychiatrist did wrote it on the form so  your son could receive the services he needed. It doesn't mean anything, except that the psychiatrist made sure that your son got what was needed at the time. A lot of the labeling that happens in schools is about making sure the money is available so that the services can be provided.

 

First and foremost, i want to truly understand what is going on. I am not resisting a diagnosis of adhd for any other reason than i need to know the truth about things, and will fight hard to get it...

 

 Is adhd the inability for the brain to focus? Or is it inability to focus because of  sensory issues?  Is adhd always a symptom, or is it a true disorder? Maybe i just dont get it. Or maybe, it depends on which professional you are listening to, an audiologist calls it apd, and occupational therapist calls is sensory disorder, and a psychiatrist calls it attention disorder....

 

There are some disagreements about ADHD, and the new DSM is making some changes to the criteria.

http://pro.psychcentral.com/2013/dsm-5-changes-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd/004321.html#

 

However, under both the old and new criteria, symptoms MUST present in multiple context. This is even stronger in the edition. In other words, if the only place your son seems to have ADHD is school, then he doesn't have ADHD.

 

Kids can have sensory issues who don't have auditory issues, and kids can have ADHD who don't have sensory or auditory issues. Your son has multiple things going on with him. It's not that the OT calls it sensory issues and the audiologist calls is apd, it is that he has BOTH APD and sensory issues.

 

Fortunately,  the speech evaluator  believes in the existence of APD, as many professionals actually dont.

 

Which professionals don't believe in it?

 


but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#5 of 89 Old 11-11-2013, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thankyou for all of your responses so far.

 

I  find find school professionals a little skeptical of APD, insofar as they keep emphasizing that its an issue of focus and attention without giving me any convincing evidence.  I think to myself, do they read the links i send them to explain APD?

 

As for the neuropsychological evaluation-ouch, that costs in the thousands. Is there a way to get around this cost? Does medicaid cover this? (i guess ill just have to find out)

 

Livinglife-how did the school accomodate for your sons 'short term memory' issues? 

 

Another issue when it comes to APD- an FM system  was ordered, but i feel it might only solve part of the problem. Ie,  it will allow him to hear the teacher better, and train his brain to focus on her  voice,  but how will his problems of  self expression, and idea recall, and the ability to form  thoughts quickly enough in a group setting be helped?

 

(thanks for your specific advice on the subject Linda on the Move)

 

The three issues that i see difficulties with, are language reception, language expression and language reception in a group setting. The FM system helps with the last one, but i dont know how the first two can be helped....I suppose speech therapy deals with this.

 

Also, i tried gluten elimination, and GAPS, i saw no improvement whatsoever. I did see his skin get a little clearer without any gluten. We try to  minimize gluten consumption. I find my 8yo more tolerant than my 5yo...

 

Then again i have to ask myself why professionals are often so skeptical of a parents protest 'but its not adhd!'  Do they have it in their handbooks that certain parent types resist labels  or something? Do they assume we're all a bit stupid?

What if he is displaying signs at school that are not APD related, but purely attentional?  His teacher says there  are so many examples, and i simply do not know what they are. What if in the past  he had no attentional issues at home but started to develop them? I find him using the phrase 'distracted' and 'unable to focus' at home when he never did before, i never used those words, or felt the need to do so. Its almost like he expects himself to be the way he is at school, but at home. (this is a recent thing)

 

Are there any others out there who had similar doubts to me, but used low doses of  amphetamine, and found it helped?

 

(many people without adhd use this stuff to get through exams, highly stressful work environments, etc etc. Theres almost the view out there that you're lucky if you can have it...this is a result of my googling, not personal experience)

 

ps. thankyou for the youtube link polliwog, it beings  tears to my eyes knowing that my poor kid has to endure that

 

pps.i will look up the other information you mentioned  Livinglife- my son did get a Handle.org evaluation when 5. Do you know anything about that?

 

pps. I will consider your post in more detail Linda the the Move, very grateful to get your perspective....

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#6 of 89 Old 11-11-2013, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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ps. the teachers and school psychologist do seem conversant on sensory issues.

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#7 of 89 Old 11-11-2013, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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re dr amy lasko-the website says nutrignomic testing is not available for residents of nyc.... i wonder why?

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#8 of 89 Old 11-11-2013, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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pps. i might add that the school psychologist mentioned that she wasnt optimistic about seeing  improvement with the use of an FM system, saying that she had seen it used in the past to no avail-i wonder about that too. She seems overall skeptical.

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#9 of 89 Old 11-11-2013, 03:26 PM
 
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DS hasn't started using an FM system yet, but I've heard some great stories from those who have.
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#10 of 89 Old 11-11-2013, 03:41 PM
 
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O.K....I'm going to take another go at this. 

 

I think, Contact Maya, that you are spinning your wheels a bit.  Yes, school professionals are going to have you doubting yourself.  Yes, it is possible that there is a component of attention and focus in his presentation that they see because they are more objective.  BUT, you already know that which is why you're doubting yourself.  The problem here is that the school needs to make appropriate acommodations for optimal learning such as sensory breaks, and teaching to his strengths, which are likely a more visual approach rather then giving auditory directions for work or verbal explanations.  His particular weaknesses must get modifications in the school environment to determine if his attention and focus are an issue due to ADHD or due to him not being taught in an effective manner for him.  This is why children with learning problems can often "look" like they have problem attention.  Yes, sometimes ADHD overlaps with learning problems, but, often it DOES NOT, and considering that ALL children with ADHD show symptoms long before they enter school at age 5, it would make me wonder too, if they are reaching for an easy answer....take a pill, problem solved.

 

The ONLY way to get the school to pay attention to these particulars is to get a neuropsych.  I know that they are expensive.  I am about to pay 2000 out of pocket for yet another one.  Yes, insurance coverage will pay for it, maybe all, maybe just a portion.  The school has to provide one, by law, if you request the testing, and depending on the district they either have a school psychologist (usually a master's level professional certified in testing techniques) or they have to pay to have one administered. 

 

There are people here on this board who know a great deal about IDEA and FAPE and maybe they can register in if you have gotten resistance from the school about testing him.  However, to me, it sounds like you haven't gotten to the place yet where an IEP has been requested and is in place, otherwise the teachers wouldn't be trying to diagnose him.   So, is it correct that he has no IEP yet?

 

So, take the first step, and put it in writing to the school guidance counselor that you would like your child evaluated for an IEP, and put it in writing that you want the full gamut of testing, educational, neuropsych, OT and speech. 

 

Move past in your own mind the conversation about whether he has ADHD and are you just a parent in denial trying to avoid using a drug.  Yes, sometimes, in my experience, parents can be in denial.  But, it sounds to me like you know that something is clearly wrong for your child at school and you have made efforts to determine what that is.  It's time now to take the next steps.  Even if he does have ADHD as well as APD or another learning or processing problem, with appropriate school interventions, he may not ever NEED a medication.  You will not know until appropriate interventions are in place in school.  I am sure you would feel better knowing how the school can teach him effectively and help him grow.  I am sure that your child's teachers would appreciate knowing both how to understand him and how to teach him.  It sounds like you are a willing partner with the school and would collaborate with them. 

 

I wish you luck with this process.  Things need to be clarified about his diagnosis, and then, the appropriate ways to help him will become more clear.

 

About your question regarding interventions to help a child's short term memory, there are many....including presenting a visual schedule at their desk, giving directions in short simple language, using previously agreed upon cues to remind a child of what comes next etc.  These are the kind of recommendations however that come out of a neuropsych eval and are tailored to the child and their learning style.

 

Sometimes, it REALLY helps to hear from other parents who have come out the other side.  I don't regret for a MILLION YEARS following my own intuition regarding my son and his needs.  I only regret doubting myself.  I can hear you doing the same.  If I had listened to my son's teachers he would have been on ritalin.  What a mistake that would have been!

 

So....about Dr. Yasko, there is a TON of info.  I did not use her biomedical testing or buy any of her products.  I am always leary about such things.  I think, if a person is deathly ill, or if you are grappling with a child with severe autism I can more understand doing dramatic and expensive approaches.  I used the information I read from her site (and I bought her book) to understand how I could support my son's metabolic pathways and tried to cobble together a better understanding of why he suffered from certain symptoms and what the underlying imbalances were.  Her work is hugely informative.  Some of it is WAY over my head and I consider myself relatively well educated.  But, if you get through the material it will give you some interesting information you won't see in many other places. 

 

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polliwog View Post

DS hasn't started using an FM system yet, but I've heard some great stories from those who have.

Ive love to hear any. I am personally very hopeful...its a pity about the naysayers IRL

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O.K....I'm going to take another go at this. 

 

I think, Contact Maya, that you are spinning your wheels a bit.  Yes, school professionals are going to have you doubting yourself.  Yes, it is possible that there is a component of attention and focus in his presentation that they see because they are more objective.  BUT, you already know that which is why you're doubting yourself.(if only i could be there and fully observe the situation. Then the only question remaining would by why his behavior is different at home.)  The problem here is that the school needs to make appropriate acommodations for optimal learning such as sensory breaks, and teaching to his strengths, which are likely a more visual approach rather then giving auditory directions for work or verbal explanations.  His particular weaknesses must get modifications in the school environment to determine if his attention and focus are an issue due to ADHD or due to him not being taught in an effective manner for him.  This is why children with learning problems can often "look" like they have problem attention.  Yes, sometimes ADHD overlaps with learning problems, but, often it DOES NOT, and considering that ALL children with ADHD show symptoms long before they enter school at age 5, it would make me wonder too, if they are reaching for an easy answer....take a pill, problem solved.

 

The ONLY way to get the school to pay attention to these particulars is to get a neuropsych.  I know that they are expensive.  I am about to pay 2000 out of pocket for yet another one.  Yes, insurance coverage will pay for it, maybe all, maybe just a portion.  The school has to provide one, by law, if you request the testing, and depending on the district they either have a school psychologist (usually a master's level professional certified in testing techniques) or they have to pay to have one administered. This is a relief. I will ask for it right away.   I wonder why they didnt mention that?

 

There are people here on this board who know a great deal about IDEA and FAPE and maybe they can register in if you have gotten resistance from the school about testing him.  However, to me, it sounds like you haven't gotten to the place yet where an IEP has been requested and is in place, otherwise the teachers wouldn't be trying to diagnose him.   So, is it correct that he has no IEP yet?

 

Yes, he has an IEP.  I have been trying to get an IEP review since August, just after he got the diagnosis of APD. Still no review has been scheduled. There is no audiologist working for our district. Its a joke. 

 

So, take the first step, and put it in writing to the school guidance counselor that you would like your child evaluated for an IEP, and put it in writing that you want the full gamut of testing, educational, neuropsych, OT and speech. 

 

Move past in your own mind the conversation about whether he has ADHD and are you just a parent in denial trying to avoid using a drug.  Yes, sometimes, in my experience, parents can be in denial.  But, it sounds to me like you know that something is clearly wrong for your child at school and you have made efforts to determine what that is.  It's time now to take the next steps.  Even if he does have ADHD as well as APD or another learning or processing problem, with appropriate school interventions, he may not ever NEED a medication.  You will not know until appropriate interventions are in place in school.  I am sure you would feel better knowing how the school can teach him effectively and help him grow.  I am sure that your child's teachers would appreciate knowing both how to understand him and how to teach him.  It sounds like you are a willing partner with the school and would collaborate with them. 

 

I wish you luck with this process.  Things need to be clarified about his diagnosis, and then, the appropriate ways to help him will become more clear.

 

About your question regarding interventions to help a child's short term memory, there are many....including presenting a visual schedule at their desk, giving directions in short simple language, using previously agreed upon cues to remind a child of what comes next etc.  These are the kind of recommendations however that come out of a neuropsych eval and are tailored to the child and their learning style.

 

Sometimes, it REALLY helps to hear from other parents who have come out the other side.  I don't regret for a MILLION YEARS following my own intuition regarding my son and his needs.  I only regret doubting myself.  I can hear you doing the same.  If I had listened to my son's teachers he would have been on ritalin.  What a mistake that would have been!

 

So....about Dr. Yasko, there is a TON of info.  I did not use her biomedical testing or buy any of her products.  I am always leary about such things.  I think, if a person is deathly ill, or if you are grappling with a child with severe autism I can more understand doing dramatic and expensive approaches.  I used the information I read from her site (and I bought her book) to understand how I could support my son's metabolic pathways and tried to cobble together a better understanding of why he suffered from certain symptoms and what the underlying imbalances were.  Her work is hugely informative.  Some of it is WAY over my head and I consider myself relatively well educated.  But, if you get through the material it will give you some interesting information you won't see in many other places. 

 

Thanks again for your input.

 

 

 

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#13 of 89 Old 11-12-2013, 08:52 AM
 
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Our oldest has true ADHD, our middle DD has ADD, our younger one has neither. (The older one also has Tourette Syndrome, as does the youngest, and the youngest also has a mild Aspergers.) I so wanted our oldest to NOT have ADHD. I denied her medication for years, her grades fell, she lost friends because of verbal outbursts and speaking before she thought, as well as "Getting in people's faces" etc. All this happened around the age of 9, we did medicate for the Tourette (it was really bad) but held off on the ADHD meds. Finally around 11 it was blatantly obvious that she did have ADHD. She was miserable (she hadn't been before, but was gaining some insight as to what was going on around her) We finally put her on Adderall, as small dose and it was really helpful! Not only was she able to pay attention, the Tourette Syndrome actually responded to the Adderall by decreasing the tics. (It's a fallacy that ALL kids with TS "get worse" with stimulant therapy, about 1/3 get worse, about a 1/3 stay the same and about 1/3 get better, our DD was the last group, we were glad to see.)

 

I think a LOT of the hype about meds for ADHD are hooey. We saw nothing but improvement, our DD didn't have any growth problems, she didn't become "less confident" at all. I don't know where that idea comes from. It did NOT change her personality one whit, it simply helped her cope with a nonstop blast of incoming data, so she could sort through it and deal with it happily. She was MUCH happier on the meds than before them. She gained friends back, her grades got better again, she got in less trouble in class and out of it for impusivity.

 

As she got older, she realized the meds also really helped the Tourette Syndrome, and she would tic more if she forgot her ADHD medication. As she became an adult, she has gotten a bit cultish about "medication" and took herself off of her meds, all of them. We have seen a great decrease in appropriate behavior (kind of hard to tell completely because she lives in an other state) but when she calls, I can tell because her sister or my DH will just sit on the phone saying nothing for 20 or 30 minutes while she goes on and on. She claims that being on a gluten free, MSG free diet "Cured" her Tourette Syndrome (and wants us to put her little sister on one) but the last time we saw her the Tourette was just as blatant as it always was. As was the ADHD. We saw absolutely no change at all since she changed her diet. The meds helped, a lot. The diets simply have not for her. We found both individual and family therapy to be invaluable.Most good parents who treat their children's ADHD don't just "Give them a pill" and think that's that. The medications are a tool, not a cure. Good parenting means using MANY strategies, and for our DD lots of physical activity, therapy, meds were all part of the treatment that worked.

 

We didn't treat our middle child for "ADD Inattentive type" because her situation didn't cause problems with functioning, playing, learning, eating, sleeping or socializing. Every child is different.

 

My point is, I have NO idea if you son has ADHD or not. As parents we often don't want difficult or uncomfortable things to be true. I know that in our case, I feel we damaged our daughter by not treating her sooner. That's us. I can't speak for your situation.

 

You said: We sat in a dark room, my then 5 yo in front of the psychiatrist, and older man, and me on the side. We just sat there. Ds starts to fidget...bingo! Adhd. Diagnosis achieved.  If the Psych is a well trained professional, I'm guessing he knows exactly what he needs to look for and may have seen a LOT more than just "figeting." These doctors see thousands of children and in most cases (as long as they are well trained, experienced and well respected) can see a lot more than a lay person does. I'm not saying your son has ADHD, but if he did, would it be the end of the world? There is treatment, it IS helpful if it is ADHD, and if it doesn't work or he has intolerable side effects (fairly uncommon) then you take him off that med and try something else. (We've had to try at least 6 different meds with our youngest with Tourette Syndrome (no ADHD) and it sucks to have to do this, but treating neuro disorders is not an exact science, due to differing symptoms and differing metabolisms. It may take more than one try to help him.

 

If it IS ADHD most likely it will increase as he nears adolescence. I wish we had treated our DD before things got nearly unbearable for her. I know it's hard to admit something might be wrong that "natural" stuff can't fix, but sometimes this is the reality. I know it was the reality for us, and we denied there was a problem for long enough to cause serious problems in our DD's ability to socialize appropriately, and actually impacted her learning. She made up later, (only to fall back in once she was out on her own) but I wouldn't' put an other child through what she went through in those unmedicated, manic days for anything. Just having been through it, I may have a different perspective than a lot of other parents. This is only my POV and my experience, and your mileage may certainly vary.

 

I hope you get an answer to what the issue may be and you son adapts and learns well, no matter what the outcome or possible diagnoses may be.

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I just wanted to add that caffeine containing drinks usually do nothing helpful for kids with true ADHD. They would cause my oldest DD to freak out completely,  become less centered and focused and add to her ticcing. The Adderall did just the opposite. Caffeine works as a stimulant in a different way than stimulant or non-stimulant drugs for ADHD.

 

As for pycagenol,I've never taken it or given it to my children, but if something changes biology, physiology, neurological functioning etc in someone, then it's a drug. What difference does it make if you buy it as the pharmacy or in the vitamin aisle?

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#15 of 89 Old 11-12-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Our oldest has true ADHD, our middle DD has ADD, our younger one has neither. (The older one also has Tourette Syndrome, as does the youngest, and the youngest also has a mild Aspergers.) I so wanted our oldest to NOT have ADHD. I denied her medication for years, her grades fell, she lost friends because of verbal outbursts and speaking before she thought, as well as "Getting in people's faces" etc. All this happened around the age of 9, we did medicate for the Tourette (it was really bad) but held off on the ADHD meds. Finally around 11 it was blatantly obvious that she did have ADHD. She was miserable (she hadn't been before, but was gaining some insight as to what was going on around her) We finally put her on Adderall, as small dose and it was really helpful! Not only was she able to pay attention, the Tourette Syndrome actually responded to the Adderall by decreasing the tics. (It's a fallacy that ALL kids with TS "get worse" with stimulant therapy, about 1/3 get worse, about a 1/3 stay the same and about 1/3 get better, our DD was the last group, we were glad to see.)

 

I think a LOT of the hype about meds for ADHD are hooey. We saw nothing but improvement, our DD didn't have any growth problems, she didn't become "less confident" at all. I don't know where that idea comes from. It did NOT change her personality one whit, it simply helped her cope with a nonstop blast of incoming data, so she could sort through it and deal with it happily. She was MUCH happier on the meds than before them. She gained friends back, her grades got better again, she got in less trouble in class and out of it for impusivity.

 

Thanks for your input. I wonder why you resisted the adhd label? Ie, why  did you want your oldest  not to have adhd? For me, i would say it would be  simpler if ds did have adhd, because then a pill would treat it. If he doesnt, it wont. Adhd meds help those with adhd, but make it worse for those who dont. Thats my understanding. For eg, , someone with adhd  can drink coffee before bedtime, because it relaxes them, but for those of us without it, it will hype us up, or make us agitated....i can see my poor kid developing tics  galore with stimulants...

 

As she got older, she realized the meds also really helped the Tourette Syndrome, and she would tic more if she forgot her ADHD medication. As she became an adult, she has gotten a bit cultish about "medication" and took herself off of her meds, all of them. We have seen a great decrease in appropriate behavior (kind of hard to tell completely because she lives in an other state) but when she calls, I can tell because her sister or my DH will just sit on the phone saying nothing for 20 or 30 minutes while she goes on and on.

 

This is interesting, because one typical symptom of adhd that my son doesnt have-talking non stop...if only i could get him to talk more...if only i could get him to offer his views more in class, project his voice a little...poor kid. He used to be so confident and outgoing. I described him as an extreme extravert, because he loved other people so much, engaged  kids in play  etc etc, but school has done something to his confidence. I coach him to speak up at home.

She claims that being on a gluten free, MSG free diet "Cured" her Tourette Syndrome (and wants us to put her little sister on one) but the last time we saw her the Tourette was just as blatant as it always was. As was the ADHD. We saw absolutely no change at all since she changed her diet. The meds helped, a lot. The diets simply have not for her. We found both individual and family therapy to be invaluable.Most good parents who treat their children's ADHD don't just "Give them a pill" and think that's that.  I dont think that  about parents of kids with adhd. The medications are a tool, not a cure. Good parenting means using MANY strategies, and for our DD lots of physical activity, therapy, meds were all part of the treatment that worked.

 

We didn't treat our middle child for "ADD Inattentive type" because her situation didn't cause problems with functioning, playing, learning, eating, sleeping or socializing. Every child is different. This is interesting in itself-that someone with adhd, can get by fine in the school setting, depending on the way that individuals adhd manifests...

 

My point is, I have NO idea if you son has ADHD or not. As parents we often don't want difficult or uncomfortable things to be true. I know that in our case, I feel we damaged our daughter by not treating her sooner. That's us. I can't speak for your situation.

 

 

You said: We sat in a dark room, my then 5 yo in front of the psychiatrist, and older man, and me on the side. We just sat there. Ds starts to fidget...bingo! Adhd. Diagnosis achieved.  If the Psych is a well trained professional, I'm guessing he knows exactly what he needs to look for and may have seen a LOT more than just "figeting." These doctors see thousands of children and in most cases (as long as they are well trained, experienced and well respected) can see a lot more than a lay person does. I'm not saying your son has ADHD, but if he did, would it be the end of the world?  No, it wouldnt, But why arent the symptoms at home? This truly begs an explanation. There is treatment, it IS helpful if it is ADHD, and if it doesn't work or he has intolerable side effects (fairly uncommon) then you take him off that med and try something else. (We've had to try at least 6 different meds with our youngest with Tourette Syndrome (no ADHD) and it sucks to have to do this, but treating neuro disorders is not an exact science, due to differing symptoms and differing metabolisms. It may take more than one try to help him.

 

If it IS ADHD most likely it will increase as he nears adolescence. I wish we had treated our DD before things got nearly unbearable for her. I know it's hard to admit something might be wrong that "natural" stuff can't fix, but sometimes this is the reality. I know it was the reality for us, and we denied there was a problem for long enough to cause serious problems in our DD's ability to socialize appropriately, and actually impacted her learning. She made up later, (only to fall back in once she was out on her own) but I wouldn't' put an other child through what she went through in those unmedicated, manic days for anything. Just having been through it, I may have a different perspective than a lot of other parents. This is only my POV and my experience, and your mileage may certainly vary.

 

And its great to hear from you, and anyone with your experience and hindsight. 

 

I hope you get an answer to what the issue may be and you son adapts and learns well, no matter what the outcome or possible diagnoses may be.  Thanks so much, and thanks for your post.

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I just wanted to add that caffeine containing drinks usually do nothing helpful for kids with true ADHD. They would cause my oldest DD to freak out completely,  become less centered and focused and add to her ticcing. The Adderall did just the opposite. Caffeine works as a stimulant in a different way than stimulant or non-stimulant drugs for ADHD.

 

As for pycagenol,I've never taken it or given it to my children, but if something changes biology, physiology, neurological functioning etc in someone,  

I just saw this. Interesting point about caffeine.

Pycogenal is touted as an antioxidant which improves brain function after taking it for several months (or weeks-cant remember) I took it and it improved my focus for about half an hour, and i dont feel the need to improve my focus. My son took it and it made him  agitated. Either way, its supposed to be an antioxidant...

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I just saw this. Interesting point about caffeine.

Pycogenal is touted as an antioxidant which improves brain function after taking it for several months (or weeks-cant remember) I took it and it improved my focus for about half an hour, and i dont feel the need to improve my focus. My son took it and it made him  agitated. Either way, its supposed to be an antioxidant...

Thank you, I knew it was an antioxidant, but I didn't know it was being used for ADHD until I read this.  If meds cause agitation and it lasts, my guess is it isn't the right drug for that person.


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I'm going to try to answer your questions. Why didn't I want my child to have ADHD? I think a lot of parents think of their parenting as "pretty good" and think of their children as "perfect." I saw ADHD, at first, not only as an indictment of parenting (as there are still people who think that kids with ADHD are just "brats" (I know you don't.) I didn't want "a label."  I also really didn't want to give my DD a lot of meds. She was already on two meds for the Tourette Syndrome, and when you get into polydrug therapy, problems can start. Also, there was also Tourette and I didn't want "something  else wrong" with my child.

 

I know my oldest with ADHD did not have caffeine calm her down, it also didn't help the ADHD. She'd get more spazzy and ticcing a lot on caffeine or other herbs/drugs similar to it. I remember asking her to please not take "energy" or those herb drinks. One day she was freaking out, ticcing like crazy and she had had one of those drinks with multiple herbs in them, some of which were messing with her ADHD and her Tourette. Plus, I was worried about cross side effects from the herbs and the meds she was taking. My middle child, who was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder, Inattentive Type (no hyperactivity) actually wakes up and is more alert with coffee.

 

I don't know why they're seeing things in school that you are not seeing at home. Most of my kids are "better" behaved in school than they are at home. Also, I expect less intense concentration from my kids in school type activities at home, until they get into about 4th or 5th grade and the homework and the acceleration speeds up in school and then the behaviors are more consistent at home.  Perhaps your son is more focused at home because it's a less stressful environment (not that all stress is bad, but if he's shy, school with all the other kids as well as learning may be things he needs to master as he can.) Your home is probably more quiet than the school, there are less people there, the lighting is different, and expectations from a parents are different than expectations from a teacher with a full class of children. Lots of kids act differently in school than they do at home.

 

I wanted to share what we went through, and that the meds aren't awful if they are doing what they should for the child. Some children with ADHD (I have NO idea if your son has ADHD, it wouldn't be ethical for me to even guess) do better on Non Stimulant ADD drugs, some do better with the stimulants. I agree with some others that seeing a Pediatric Neurologist or Neuropsych specialist may help you find the answer.

 

Until about 4th grade my oldest DD was almost rigid about "rules" in school, but not at home. My two younger kids, especially in the Primary Grades were more quiet in school than at home, a lot of kids act differently at home than at school. My guess is they are seeing something  distressing or there would be no reason for them to bring it up to you.

 

I hope you find the answer soon so you can continue to help your son. :Hug 


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I found this to be really helpful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mqpdomdnH4

 

Do you have a developmental ped? That might be a good place to start.


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For the sake of clarity, it is really important to remember when your child is school aged, that a neuropsychological evaluation provides not just a diagnosis but also educational testing to determine learning style, weaknesses, overall IQ, and the all important recommendations for intervention both at home and at school to improve overall learning and functioning.  It is the kind of testing the school needs to put interventions in place.  So, since school is the most pressing problem, please get a neuropsych and skip the developmental pediatrician.

 

Developmental pediatricians are most useful for very young children prior to school age who have difficulties in their development, and to rule out medical conditions affecting learning, OR if you need a medical diagnosis to receive insurance re-embursement.

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I also want to add, for further clarity, that even though children look different at home vs at school, children who have ADHD, prior to their entry to school, have a typical profile that parents can easily identify.  They have a history at a very young age, of restless frequent movement, poor attention and focus to parental requests, inability to do one task for very long, unless highly interested in the task as it is very common for children with ADHD to hyper focus on what interests them. 

 

You are right, contact maya, to question why you didn't see evidence of ADHD as a very young child.  This is exactly the reason to dig deeper to look for learning problems that are creating the "look" of inattention or lack of focus in school.  While I relate to your situation, in the sense that I was also told (falsely) that my son had ADHD by teachers, and I intuited something more was going on, I think you will meet or talk to people who have the opposite situation and wish that they had accepted a diagnosis sooner such as some of the responses above. 

 

I think it's important to listen more to your own voice though, as I believe most mothers have an intuition that they need to follow about how to help their child.  Listen to it.  I only hope to validate you own voice.  I also used to think, "if only it were as easy as taking a pill"....not that I shrug off side effects or would minimize the work involved in helping a child with ADHD.  I just KNEW though that something more complicated was going on for my son and wished I could just accept the more "obvious" answer. 

 

OK....I hope you let us know how things go.  If your school gives you any difficulty regarding testing, please come back on the board with a different thread about it.  I know many parents here can give great advice about your rights.

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Developmental pediatricians are most useful for very young children prior to school age who have difficulties in their development, and to rule out medical conditions affecting learning, OR if you need a medical diagnosis to receive insurance re-embursement.

Not necessarily. Developmental peds are for children of all ages who present behavior or situations that are not neurotypical. The OP also mentioned medicaid; one can sometimes get a referral to a developmental ped. I would be a lot more comfortable with a developmental ped. diagnosing a neurologically based disorder rather then a therapist (a medicaid is often wont to do) or a regular pediatrician with no specialization. It is just a different type of specialty. A developmental ped will be more familiar with neurological disorders of all kinds--not simply autism or those effecting very young children.

 

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I also want to add, for further clarity, that even though children look different at home vs at school, children who have ADHD, prior to their entry to school, have a typical profile that parents can easily identify.  They have a history at a very young age, of restless frequent movement, poor attention and focus to parental requests, inability to do one task for very long, unless highly interested in the task as it is very common for children with ADHD to hyper focus on what interests them. 

 

This is simply not true either. ADHD is a neurological disorder with great variation. Many children are not hyper, but still have ADHD. Many children are very bright and compensate for their disability until they reach upper elementary school, or middle school where there is greater emphasis on time management, and planning. These types of tasks can be very challenging for people with ADHD. This is why the criteria for diagnosing ADHD was changed in the most recent DSM.


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#23 of 89 Old 11-12-2013, 07:07 PM
 
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OK...for further clarity, a developmental pediatrician does not provide an educational evaluation.   Of course they can evaluate a child for a number of conditions outside of early childhood, but, how useful is that, when the school will not find the evaluation helpful.  That, is the salient point.   Schools require information on learning style, weaknesses and strengths, to create an effective and useful IEP. 

 

To parse the discussion further regarding ADHD diagnosis, I am an LICSW who is trained to make a diagnosis.  Executive functioning issues, which appear in middle school, due to a latent ADHD diagnosis, do not just appear with no warning.  In most children, a parent is able to see signs of the disorder in more then one domain, and before the age of 5.  Clearly, bright children can compensate.  But more often than not, that is just not the case, considering that the average IQ is 100.  Breaking it down in such a way for the OP is likely not useful, and make her question herself even further, since we are not talking about executive functioning in a middle schooler but a young child struggling with the requirements of the early grades. 

 

Yes, I'm making a lot of effort to be clear, but I hope it ultimately helps the OP.

 

Blessings.

 

 

 

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Yes, but keep in mind that the OP's child, and mine, have Auditory Processing Disorder. That makes the school environment VERY different than a home environment.

An as an adult with ADHD and likely-APD, caffeine is very centering for me.
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#25 of 89 Old 11-12-2013, 08:55 PM
 
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A physician's opinion absolutely can enter into the IEP process with a physician's statement. It sounds like the child has a cursory diagnosis of ADHD that the parent rejects. Ideally, she would have an neuropsychological evaluation, but can't afford that at this time. So as to not make the perfect the enemy of the good, a referral to a developmental ped (who then may be able to help her get the neuropsych eval for medical rather then psychological reasons) is a next effective step.

 

A developmental ped will have a lot more experience with diagnosing ADHD and will likely be familiar with APD. It just sounds like she needs a second opinion to rule out ADHD for the school. A developmental ped can certainly do that with authority.


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#26 of 89 Old 11-13-2013, 04:30 AM
 
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OK....contactmaya, maybe we are illustrating for you, the kind of back and forth that occurs when there is a lack of clarity about how to put symptoms into a context of a diagnosis.  If you want to see that back and forth clarified and put to rest in "real life", we are illustrating how important it is to get to the bottom of things...so sorry if I am being repetitive but, I had this kind of back and forth too with my son's school when he was eight.  It is very painful and I hate to see people go through it.  

 

So, with all due respect to all disciplines, I wouldn't choose my pediatrician (or a psychiatrist) to diagnose ADHD.  I'd reject that kind of diagnosis as well.  As contact maya said, they do only give 15 minutes to a 1/2 hour of their time to an issue that needs more thorough attention.  Nor, would I choose an internist to follow a heart murmur or a developmental pediatrician to make school recommendations.  In my mind, a good enough look, from a good enough professional, is what get's you the lack of clarity and trust in the result in the first place.  Yes, evaluations can be costly, but, be assured that the school is mandated by law to provide it!  So, make them :) 

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#27 of 89 Old 11-13-2013, 09:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by livinglife View Post
 

OK....contactmaya, maybe we are illustrating for you, the kind of back and forth that occurs when there is a lack of clarity about how to put symptoms into a context of a diagnosis.  If you want to see that back and forth clarified and put to rest in "real life", we are illustrating how important it is to get to the bottom of things...so sorry if I am being repetitive but, I had this kind of back and forth too with my son's school when he was eight.  It is very painful and I hate to see people go through it.  

 

So, with all due respect to all disciplines, I wouldn't choose my pediatrician (or a psychiatrist) to diagnose ADHD.  I'd reject that kind of diagnosis as well.  As contact maya said, they do only give 15 minutes to a 1/2 hour of their time to an issue that needs more thorough attention.  Nor, would I choose an internist to follow a heart murmur or a developmental pediatrician to make school recommendations.  In my mind, a good enough look, from a good enough professional, is what get's you the lack of clarity and trust in the result in the first place.  Yes, evaluations can be costly, but, be assured that the school is mandated by law to provide it!  So, make them :) 

 


Livinglife, are you suggesting that a school psych through their evaluation diagnosis or reject the diagnosis of ADHD? How is a school psych any more qualified then a medical doctor who specializes in neurological development?


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#28 of 89 Old 11-13-2013, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, but keep in mind that the OP's child, and mine, have Auditory Processing Disorder. That makes the school environment VERY different than a home environment.

An as an adult with ADHD and likely-APD, caffeine is very centering for me.

To be honest, i still think the APD eplains the  whole kit and kaboodle of this kids symptoms.

 

One of the common symptoms of adhd-talking alot-my child doesnt do that.

Another symptom-being disorganized. When it comes to his homework, he does sometimes forget it at school. (He probably does it on purpose) But in general, i would describe him as an organized person. He reorganizes his things every so often without any encouragement from me. He just reorganized his cube yesterday morning before school, and didnt have time to finish it. He finished it promptly when arriving home.

He's really quite mature if you ask me-adhd, seriously.

 

But there's the  so called inattention at school, I just have to see it to believe it.

 

Thankyou for this  very helpful discussion btw, and i dont mind repetition.

 

Interesting again about the caffeine. I read an article where  mother literally treats her child's adhd with a cup of joe in the morning, and it seems to work.

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#29 of 89 Old 11-13-2013, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by forestmushroom View Post ... ADHD is a neurological disorder with great variation. Many children are not hyper, but still have ADHD. Many children are very bright and compensate for their disability until they reach upper elementary school, or middle school where there is greater emphasis on time management, and planning. Although only  newly 8,   ds has never shown an inability to plan. The opposite in fact. He can be quite organized and good at forward thinking, and delayed gratification. So there again, another way i doubt he has adhd. These types of tasks can be very challenging for people with ADHD. This is why the criteria for diagnosing ADHD was changed in the most recent DSM.
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#30 of 89 Old 11-13-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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A physician's opinion absolutely can enter into the IEP process with a physician's statement. (Actually, a physicians statement was required for ds' IEP, and the  adhd diagnosis a precondition for receiving OT. I sought it at all costs, and wasnt surprised at how unconvincing it was.  I felt the psych was doing me a favor-ie, although your child clearly has sensory issues, as revealed by the OT evalutations, we cant do a thing for him unless we call it adhd) It sounds like the child has a cursory diagnosis of ADHD that the parent rejects.(see above) Ideally, she would have an neuropsychological evaluation, but can't afford that at this time.(there was mention that insurance could cover it or that the DOE could provide it...i hope this is correct, because otherwise we might as well just go round and round in circles, where everyone has an opinion, but noone can do a proper evaluation due to its cost....that might explain why adhd diagnoses are so common -the dx you get when you cant afford a dx...) So as to not make the perfect the enemy of the good, a referral to a developmental ped (who then may be able to help her get the neuropsych eval for medical rather then psychological reasons) is a next effective step. (this sounds feasible, but sounds like it will take a long time).

 

A developmental ped will have a lot more experience with diagnosing ADHD and will likely be familiar with APD. It just sounds like she needs a second opinion to rule out ADHD for the school. A developmental ped can certainly do that with authority.

 

What tests do they provide that would rule out adhd?  I may have mentioned earlier that my ped  said there was no way to rule it out. It seems that diagnosis is made on symptoms alone. I wonder how  the dev ped would distinguish APD and ADHD?

 

If the neuropsych eval is  mandated by law, as livinglife suggests, then i might as well go straight to it...

 

Ive made a request, but got no answer as yet...

 

Please keep any discussion going, its all interesting and useful to me, and greatly appreciated.

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