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#1 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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...but I read the thread about "what makes your kid gifted" and it made me sad. Not that I don't think it's great that other kids suceed, but it's hard to read about 2.5 yr olds reading when your 3 yr old doesn't talk.

I mean, I've had both ends of the spectrum here myself. My oldest talked at 11 months (would ask "What's that?" while pointing - so I told him.) He now reads at a higher than average level and his math skills are at the 11th grade level (he did NOT get that from me.) My other ds is also a smarty-pants, who threw a fit b/c his father bought him the wrong dolphin doll at the aquarium gift shop b/c the doll didn't have the exact same markings as the dolphins in the show. (The girl behind the counter at the gift shop luckily was able to explain it all to ds, who left happy with the dolphin.)

So I've dealt with bright kids. I deal with them every day. They drive me nuts sometimes, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

At the same time, I have a child who honestly, I have no clue what's going on inside her cute little head. She has the language skills of a 12 month old. She's at the 1st percentile for her age for receptive and expressive language. No one yet can tell us why she has delays. It's VERY frustrating.

I did ask once why the gifted kids thread is on the special needs board, and was told that it is b/c gifted kids require special parenting too. And in a way, I guess they do. Though my kid brother (who's gifted) had so many traits like my oldest, that to me, the tantrums over broken tacos and constant need to have everything explained to him, were normal. It wasn't until my oldest was about 4 that I realized that he was brighter than the average light bulb.

But sometimes, it's just a little hard to read about kids doing so well when yours isn't. That's all.

I'm not sure what my point is here. I'm not asking that the gifted kids thread be moved b/c I dont' think it will, and I really don't want the other moms to think they shouldn't brag about their kids - not at all! But it's just been a week where I've been noticing JUST how far behind my dd is. It was hard to read a friend talking about how she's got her dd in a dance class - her dd is just a couple months older than mine, but soooooo advanced compared to mine.

Most of the time, I'm very accepting of everything dd is. She is bright and happy and cuddly and is such a joy to be around. But every so often, I am reminded that she isn't normal and we don't know what her future is, and it's a little sad.
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#2 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 01:59 AM
 
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I can understnd your pain- not so much about the gifted board ad I just don;t g into it but at the park one thing we really try to do is have ds take "risks" (like climb up the stairs himsefl)...I am always getting a comment that if "I just support ltitle johnny and when he is ready he will do what is right for him"- we hurah for little johnny! My ds also has a sensory integreation issues so he alwyas grabs your hand and makes you "punch" his head- you should hear the comments about this one- I love it "we practice non violent parenting- yeah well so do we but his sensory system iterprits that as massage....

I thinks its easy to get so overwhelmed...letting go is the key- it's a work in progress, but it's still the key!
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#3 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 02:07 AM
 
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I agree, I actually don't think this is an appropriate forum for such a thread. A thread like "gifted and disabled" would be fine, but a thread celebrating a non-disability doesn't belong here. A thread titled "the special needs of socially precocious children" or "the special needs of burgeoning Olympic athletes" would similarly irk me. Such a thread is fine somewhere else, but not here. There are special needs and then there are special needs children.
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#4 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 02:21 AM
 
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Oh come on. For one thing, there are LOTS of gifted kids these days who are gifted + Aspberger's/ASD/etc. or + ADHD/ADD or +health issues. The other thing is, if you read enough about gifted kids you will find that highly intelligent people have a much higher suicide rates. A much higher risk of not getting a job. A much higher risk of never making friends.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I have both kinds of kids: one special needs in a more "classical" sense, and one special needs in a out-of-my-mind-crazy intelligent sense. Both support systems help. And forums where you're talking about the avg kid don't cut it for either.

A better comparison to me is to say, we don't want those classical homeschoolers on this homeschooling board because only unschooling is *real* homeschooling. It's not a fair statement. Both are variations of homeschooling, and both approaches have parents who need support for what they are doing.



I will say this though...it hurts to have a special needs kid....especially one that no one knows what is wrong....where you have days, hours, weeks, years of one thing happening after the next, and all they can come up with is, well, something is wrong. Gee thanks. It hurts to see all the other kids with their skinned up knees, and running feet, and big words, and big dreams, and not knowing if I'm gonna wake up one morning and find my son dead.

We've had a really hard week too; can you tell?

peekyboo and anyone else who needs it.

mv
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#5 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 02:26 AM
 
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I agree. I usually don't go to that thread but then I see it near the top of the page pretty often and I wonder how so many people can "brag". I know that most probably isn't there intention - but to someone who struggles with their child's development its hard to not perceive it any other way.

I also think it irks me because having a gifted child can be seen as more of happy burden - you know - giving advanced books or getting them into an advanced program - but for other SN it just doesn't feel that way. Although I love my kids and I wouldn't change things - lets face it - there isn't exaclty all that much to be thrilled about and to be shouting from the mountain tops on a day to day basis - kwim?

Most of my days are spent trying to juggle frustration, guilt, etc etc etc and lately it seems like we don't even have any good to report!!

So I get it and I agree - I don't think this is the right place. It feels like a rub in the face (even though I'm sure that isn't what those mothers meant it to be) when I see that thread.
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#6 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 02:36 AM
 
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I don't go in there. I've wondered previously if this is really the best place for it. But I choose to believe those mamas aren't intentionally rubbing our faces in being at the opposite end of the spectrum and now I'm desensitized to the title of the thread, having never opened it, I'm unable to be offended by it's content.

I don't wish to minimize any issues faced by families with this scenario. But it's a bit like having just one more reminder of how different we are from the "norm" when every time I open this forum I have to see the word gifted. It's slightly irritating.

And for the record. The Record. I would prefer, if God came down and gave me a choice, for dd to just be typical, than to be gifted. Plenty of gifted kids have severe social issues that negate their genius.

DD1 7/13/05 DD2 9/20/10
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#7 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 02:46 AM
 
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i think the reason gifted and talented is on this thread is both ends of extreme developmental issues require special accomodations.... just as a child who is delayed can no keep up with a class of 'average' kids... its just as frustrating for an advanced child to be 'stuck' in a normal class..
both fall under 'special education' for schools...

im not here to brag about ds' accomplishments...but quite honestly some days the demand he requires is sooo much i dont know what to do. the quest for knowledge and the pace at which he absorbs and retains info is fascinating... for example.. try to find indepth info on jellyfish? not an easy feat... espically when ds was 3 and had the patience of a 3 yr old but yet the brain of a biologist...

there are lots of threads and topics on the board... if something doesnt interest me or if it will offend me i just dont read about it.


lets all play nicely
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#8 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 02:51 AM
 
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I'm sorry but to even for one iota of a second compare being challenged to look up information for your rapidly learning child to the unimaginable depths of despair many, if not most, of the things us mamas on the other end are going through is.....so blissfully ignorant. I am not trying to be ridiculously defensive but please give the special needs mamas the respect of not pretending that it's the same to have a gifted child as it is to have a delayed one.

DD1 7/13/05 DD2 9/20/10
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#9 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 02:52 AM
 
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Ok - so I went and read "that" thread - or at least the new one. And damn I shouldn't have. In all honesty though it does make me angry and hurt and even more frustrated then the day has left me.

What I want that parents of gifted have - or maybe whats better - the things I'm jealous of in other parents:
-having a child who actually talks
-having a child who can actually socialize and doesn't stare for hours at the wheels on the bottom of his toy car
-having a child who when she does talk (my other SN child) you can understand her
-having a five year old that can understand concepts on a five year old level. I would love for her to recognize different species of animals instead of having to argue with her that the picture in the book is of a CAT and NOT a DAT (whatever that is)
-my daughter also asks "what" a 1,000 times a day to where my entire day is spent explaining things to her - the only difference is because she can't hear me - she's deaf!
-having a child that would actually "over hear" a conversation - even if the subject is not appropriate - because my daughter never "over hears" anything

....and the list could go on and on....but whats more is that my children are "only" deaf. There are mothers on this board who have children of much more significant SN. As a SN mother I am even aware of the fact that me being bitter because my children can't hear may hurt a mother of a child who can't walk when she is having bad day. SO I'm sure my uneasiness with it is only the tip of the iceberg.

So yes, gifted children do have their special needs and the mothers of gifted children do have extra worries - but its still like a stab in the chest when I have to read about it.
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#10 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 02:57 AM
 
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Not trying to intice but ....



....bri276
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#11 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 03:30 AM
 
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You guys, you don't have to read about it.

It's not there to be a dig on other special needs moms. Gifted kids have different needs than the average kid, and than other special needs kids.

The whole reason that thread got started was because some moms of regular kids were harassing the moms of gifted kids basically saying that gifted kids don't exist. It wasn't started to harass moms of other types of special needs kids.

Special needs come in lots of different packaging. And like I said, many moms of gifted kids on this board have either kids with SID or ASD or ADHD or some other such as well...things that would considered conventional special needs...


mv
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#12 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 05:04 AM
 
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I don't see how rating each child's level of "needs" is going to benefit anyone. I understand how challenging and painful it can be to raise a child with SN, but comparing who has it "worse" isn't going to do anyone any good. A child with severe reflux might be right on target in all other developmental areas. A child who doesn't hear may be ahead in every other milestone. A child who is intellectually gifted may suffer from crippling anxiety trying to reconcile what he knows with what he has experienced. Who should be allowed on this board? What should the criteria be? Who gets to decide?

I have a ds who is both gifted AND ASD. Each one brings a different set of joys and challenges. Each one affects his day to day life in a significant way. Its not like you can just buy him "big kid" books and feel happy with life, there is so much more to it than that. Having the academic knowledge of a 12 yo, the emotional skills of a 4 yo, and the social skills of a 2 yo all at the same time leads to a unique perspective on life.

I don't often look in on the "gifted" thread anymore so perhaps it has become a "brag thread", but I do know that it was started for support in dealing with these unique issues.

I like the SN board in all its diversity.


 

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#13 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 05:05 AM
 
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As a mom with one gifted, one special needs, and one typical child I understand that the gifted thread is much needed, but I do wish that it wasn't under the special needs heading. All too often I come here on really bad days when I really need to know that I am not alone, and just seeing the title is like rubbing salt in an open wound on those days.

It is wonderful that moms challenged by an exceptional child have a place to post (and I have posted there in the past) about their struggles, but sometimes it is really hard to just see that title. I have actually logged off as soon as I logged in one night after seeing that thread at the top of the page.

Silly of me to feel that way, I know.
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#14 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 10:24 AM
 
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I suggest that all those who feel uncomfortable with the Gifted thread being in Special Needs post your feelings in Questions And Suggestions. Or pm the mods of Special Needs.

I, too, feel very uncomfortable seeing the Gifted thread every time I come here.
My son is on the autism spectrum yet he also excels academically. Even though he is 'gifted' in that regard, he's still autistic and has so many other problems.
It HURTS having it "in my face" in a forum that is usually for children with a disability. I don't view being gifted a disability. Nor would the medical field.

Yes, dealing with a gifted child can be quite trying but I believe that thread belongs elsewhere. Perhaps in a Tribe.

Peace,
Liz
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#15 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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As a mom with one gifted, one special needs, and one typical child I understand that the gifted thread is much needed, but I do wish that it wasn't under the special needs heading. All too often I come here on really bad days when I really need to know that I am not alone, and just seeing the title is like rubbing salt in an open wound on those days.
That's exactly I think my point was in all my rambling <says the thread starter>

I know how hard it is to deal with a gifted child. I know the challenges I face with him. I also now know the mood swings that come with meeting the challenges of raising a child with undiagnosed delays.

I hae to say, this board, out of all the others I have visited, has always been the most helpful. People here don't see our kids as some diagnosis, but as gifts we're given to challenge our parenting a little more. There's always someone ready to give a hug, a link, a "I know what you're going through." Which is why I like coming here.

Most of the time, I have just ignored the Gifted Kids threads. I've read it twice since becoming a member - once, where I joined in b/c I had advice I could give b/c I'd btdt with my son. And then last night. And I didn't think they were "bragging", any more than I'd brag about how well my sons are doing in school. But as it's been said, it is like salt in a wound, when you've had a week of "Things my child may not do."

And honestly, meeting the challenge of keeping my son academically interested when he feels like he doesn't need to do the work is a lot easier than having to hold my dd down while she tries not to cry as they take more blood from her to run tests that come back negative, and answering the question "Well what IS wrong with her?"

Quote:
I suggest that all those who feel uncomfortable with the Gifted thread being in Special Needs post your feelings in Questions And Suggestions. Or pm the mods of Special Needs.
I did, several months ago. I was told that raising gifted kids demands special parenting and that it wouldn't be moved.
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#16 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 10:51 AM
 
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Grrr. Special parenting is NOT Special Needs.
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#17 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 11:07 AM
 
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I just don't read it. Have never even opened it up. I get *hurt* as it is reading about what *normal* kids ds's age is, I don't even want to know what the gifted kids are doing. That would be too much for me to handle. I opened up a thread about singing in the toddler forum, hoping to see at least another parent saying their toddler doesn't sing. But no, instead I read all these parents gushing about how cute their kid was when they were singing. Great for them, sucky for me. I tend to avoid threads in the toddler forum that are going to make me sad also.

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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#18 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 11:09 AM
 
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I don't read it much but it's there, in my face, every time I go to Special Needs parenting.

If people want to suggest it getting moved, I would go to the top and pm Cynthia Mosher.

I'm not 'telling' people to do that, just if it really bothers you.

Peace,
Liz
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#19 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 11:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodlesmom4
As a mom with one gifted, one special needs, and one typical child I understand that the gifted thread is much needed, but I do wish that it wasn't under the special needs heading. All too often I come here on really bad days when I really need to know that I am not alone, and just seeing the title is like rubbing salt in an open wound on those days.

It is wonderful that moms challenged by an exceptional child have a place to post (and I have posted there in the past) about their struggles, but sometimes it is really hard to just see that title. I have actually logged off as soon as I logged in one night after seeing that thread at the top of the page.

Silly of me to feel that way, I know.
Thank you. I actually haven't logged on in quite awhile because of this very issue. I want - scratch that - I *need* the support of other special needs mamas in order to sanely raise my ASD son. Everyday is a struggle. One I happily take on, but a struggle nonetheless. And seeing/hearing/reading about parents of children with higher than average intelligence is just...well, deflating if nothing else.

It's not that gifted parents don't need support. I just question why it has to be *here,* in special needs.
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#20 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 11:26 AM
 
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I have never looked at that thread. Right now I don't even go to the T21 forum that I used to go to daily. It just got to be too much.

I agree that there could be a better forum for the gifted thread.

Good thoughts everyone.

Christi
DS1(12), DD(7)blessed with T21, DS2(2), and DD2 - newly arrived 1/28/11
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#21 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 11:26 AM
 
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Again, if your child is gifted AND special needs, then it is fine to have a thread stating such, like "Gifted and ASD?" or "Gifted with cerebral palsy" because then presumably you might want support for your child's disability which might be mimimized because of his intelligence. I have a gifted child and a special needs child. The very word "gifted" implies that in and of itself having an IQ two standard deviations above the norm is NOT a disability. My challenges with my very bright child are NOTHING compared to my SN child. It's like having a thread "The challenges of an overly attentive and loving husband who drives you crazy by his over-the-top romantic overtures" on a divorce board. Salt in a wound.

Not that I think that is any of those mama's intents, but still....
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#22 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 11:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizc
Yes, dealing with a gifted child can be quite trying but I believe that thread belongs elsewhere. Perhaps in a Tribe.
:

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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#23 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I started a thread in the Questions board, if anyone else wants to chime in there (it hasn't shown up yet fyi.)
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#24 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 12:00 PM
 
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I'm another one who just never reads the Gifted thread. And says away from other posts that appear here because of that thread (ie, the occasional post about how someone thinks their child may be gifted).

I have a 'gifted child' (though I never use that term) who is also special needs. It is draining, exhausting, emotionally difficult, rewarding, heartbreaking. Come to think of it my younger one is probably 'gifted' too -- but he's a much easier child to raise, even though his physical issues are more challenging. I don't feel I have anything to gain from visiting the gifted thread. What I'm dealing with and what mothers who have gifted children who do not have disabling special needs are dealing with are different things.

I am happy just to avoid the thread and, if I'm honest, not be completely happy with it being there. I don't love everything on mothering.com, and there are even other discussions on this forum I avoid so as not to feel upset or mad.

Fiona
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#25 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 12:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri276
I'm sorry but to even for one iota of a second compare being challenged to look up information for your rapidly learning child to the unimaginable depths of despair many, if not most, of the things us mamas on the other end are going through is.....so blissfully ignorant. I am not trying to be ridiculously defensive but please give the special needs mamas the respect of not pretending that it's the same to have a gifted child as it is to have a delayed one.
ITA with this.

Sorry folks, I am gifted, and required no special parenting. Not borderline gifted, admissable to MENSA gifted, okay? I was reading on a 3rd grade level when I was 3 or 4, and all that jazz. I was enrolled in the gifted programs, AP programs, started college as a sophmore because of all my AP credit...blah blah blah. Yay me.

I hate seeing that gifted thread in here every stinking time too. Having BEEN a gifted child myself, and having to PARENT a child with special needs, it really does irk me. I just roll my eyes.

Sorry, it's not nice and fluffy and all that, but it's the truth. MV, I get what you're saying about parenting an ASD kid who's gifted, but that, in my mind, is parenting an ASD child, not a gifted child. Being gifted and having ASD is an autism issue. But if all your kid "has" is being gifted, well, sorry, but I really don't feel any sympathy.

Oh, you poor thing, you have to enroll your child in special gifted programs and indulge their off the charts curiosity and buy encyclopedias instead of Richard Scary books. Oh how do you cope. /sarcasm

When I'm dealing with my nonverbal child headbutting me and making me bleed for the umpteenth time for some reason I cannot fathom, or when I have to calculate a family outing like a military battle plan because of all the "what if's" that may happen with my kid, I really don't give a hoot about the "special needs" of gifted kids. I would kill to have a child who is "just" gifted.
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#26 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 12:32 PM
 
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I also think that comparing the 'special needs of gifted children' with the 'special needs of delayed/impaired in some way' children is like comparing apples and oranges. I do get that having a smart child requires extra stimulation. I have two of them. They also happen to be hearing impaired. One who people - especially professionals - have tried to label 'gifted' and I've always argued that everyone is smart in their own way. I truly believe that. It's really something how our brains work and I celebrate every child's capabilities.

But this is a special needs forum. This is where I come to discuss my children's genetic hearing loss and anything related to it. Where I talk to other parents about their children with Downs Syndrome (I have a younger brother with Downs). Where I find information for one of my best friends who's identical twin sons are both ASD. And when I see a gifted thread here, it just doesn't seem to fit. It's not the same. Sorry, but it just isn't. It's a challenge, but an amazing one. One you can be proud of. I am SO proud of my sons and the way their minds work, but I don't talk about it in this forum, KWIM? I talk about his hearing aids and how he doesn't like his FM system and how I'm worried because the baby I'm carrying right now doesn't startle to noise at all. And I do my best to respect the parents in this forum who's children are struggling with special needs that are so much more challenging than what my boys are dealing with. That's another reason why I don't talk about my son's enrichment projects here, you know?

At any rate, I don't care if the thread is moved or not, but I do see why a lot of other parents would. It just looks like a square peg in a round hole here to me, that's all.
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#27 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 12:46 PM
 
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Hi, I'm Xaloxe and I post on the "Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children" thread.

I'm first going to go out on a limb and state that I believe the issue here is not directly with the parents who are posting on that thread, but rather with the threads' placement in the forums. I do not like the thought of people being turned off from the Special Needs forum because of a thread. I also don't want to see people leave the "Gifted" thread because they feel that their posting there is offensive. I don't know if posters will be able to resolve this, and agree that it is an issue for the MDC mods.

I remember when I first posted on the SN forum that I felt out of place and even stated that we don't consider our DD to fall in the special needs category. For this reason I don't like labels, and wonder how much of the issue comes down to that. Everywhere I look I can find people who have to deal with much more difficult issues then we do, just as I can find many who deal with lots less. No matter what the situation, it doesn't negate what each and everyone of us has to go through. It doesn't dimish our struggles, our decisions, our worry to know that someone else has it easier or harder. We all define in our own minds what "special needs" are to us. I don't believe it would be fair for me to hold someone else to my own standards.

FWIW: I first came to the SN forum to get some advice on our eldest who was born with multiple congenital anomolies (she's 5 and I still can't bring myself to think of them as birth "defects"), has been diagnosed with SID, has numerous diagnosed and unknown allergies, currently has unknown health issues that have put her through test after test since March amongst other things. I'm not justifying our presence here, just giving background for my above comments. Outside of her physical issues, she challenges us to keep up with her inellectually. I have found much support in the SN forum for her health and physical issues, as well as in the "gifted" thread for help in dealing with her sometimes debilitating perfectionism (and as a safe place to go to speak of her accomplishments w/o fear of offending anyone). I don't believe anyone wants to be offensive, and I feel we all deserve a place to feel safe. This is why I wanted to differentiate between the personal and technical issues of the placement of the thread in question.
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#28 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 01:15 PM
 
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I hadn't read the gifted thread until now. I agree that it shouldn't be in this forum. My son is a child that is called globally delayed, SID with possibly Cerebral Palsy. He is a very sweet little boy but the past year-year and a half have been extremly difficult because we don't know how to help him. I've sat down with him and tried to play with him and most of the time he wonders off...I've tried to teach him things and it literally takes months and months of no response to one day see some response. I have a one year old son, too, who is without special needs. It took him a few days/maybe weeks to learn his body parts "where's your nose?" and he point to his nose. It took my oldest about a year to get it--and is just now (at 3.5) answering really quickly without having to think about the question). We've accepted that he is delayed and we are working on helping him. I do wish that he would be able to speak clearly, use the potty, not slam his head on the sofa, not toe-walk, not gag on most foods, be able to climb into his car seat, sit down for a video. We took a trip recently with friends who have a child our son's age and she is sooooo advanced (but isn't gifted--she is just a regular child). Totally pt, sleeping in a bed, tells me what books or movies she wants to watch. I want that for my son--and my DH and I work so hard to help him (trying to feed him right, teach him, play with him, etc.) I can see why both SN and gifted children require extra work but for once I would like to see that the extra work means something and is working. My son has gotten to a point where I can see he is starting to say colors and animal names (very few--but it is a start!) If I were to read the gifted threads say, last year, when he was barely saying 5 words and didn't understand simple questions I know that it would made me feel even worse.
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#29 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 01:29 PM
 
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I was a gifted child too; I would qualify for Mensa too and I was always in gifted programs, etc. I have sympathy for the moms posting in that thread and their children. Despite having loving parents who tried their best, I hated many aspects of my childhood and no one knew what to do with me. I know it can be challenging to be a gifted child and I'm glad those moms care enough to network and try to help their children be happier kids.

But I agree that there could be a better place for it, like maybe a subforum or in the learning forums. I come here because of having a child with ASD. She is highly intelligent yes, but the more immediate challenges are her severe language delays, eating problems, sleeping problems, mood regulation... It does feel like rubbing salt in a wound to me too to see threads about gifted children here. The two really are apples and oranges. It would be similar to devoting one forum to "weight issues" and then having people post about trying to lose weight alongside people trying to pack it on. Both need support but not necessarily in the same forum.
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#30 of 97 Old 07-07-2006, 01:37 PM
 
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Before the gifted threads were started, the mamas involved asked us permission to post here. Those of us who were here at the time had been following some of their struggles on the main boards and had no problem with it. If the population here has changed significantly enough that people now *do* have a problem with it, then that needs to be addressed. But it's not fair to accuse them of "invading" our territory.

Yes, there are days when I blink when I come here and see it at the top of the page (all 3 of my kids have special needs). But that is my issue. I don't intrude on threads that don't apply to me, so I never read those, just as I don't go to forums that don't apply to me. If "kicking them out of the club" really is the answer, then the MDC
Special Needs forum has ceased to be a place where I can refer other moms.
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