Unvaccinated Autisics? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-04-2008, 02:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I appreciate the many answers, finally I hear from some parents. I could find no research on vaccinated v/s unvaccinated, and I have a three year old son who has been diagnosed with Autism. He only had his hepB shot at birth and a sigle dTap shot at nine months. He was born in a hospital and his birth was tramatic for both of us, I swore I'd never do that to another child or myself again. So with my second son I choose a birthcenter and had a peaceful waterbirth with no drugs and no intervention. My second child has never and will never have any vaccinations, his placenta was attached for the first day of his life, and he has been on coco-biotics since birth. There are so many theories out about what autism is and how to treat and prevent it , I don't know weather to celebrate my son's nurodiversity or try to cure him! I don't know if he should undergo ABA or if I should homeschool him, or if we should just do GF/CF or the body ecology diet! I just don't know..........
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for writing this.






As a newbie to the special needs world I am not quite sure of what is common knowledge and PC. Sometimes I am guilty of asking an inappropriate question. Sometimes I express a less than enlightened view. I am just starting my journey with my son and I am coming here to learn.

I hope that others will keep this in mind.
-These word are perfect, this is waht i need to say to all of you, I am just figuring all of this out, please don't feel insulted by my ignorance here, I seek enlightenment and acceptance! I just don't have all the information and expierance you people do, give a woman a chance to learn here please...
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:31 AM
 
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I appreciate the many answers, finally I hear from some parents. I could find no research on vaccinated v/s unvaccinated, and I have a three year old son who has been diagnosed with Autism. He only had his hepB shot at birth and a sigle dTap shot at nine months. He was born in a hospital and his birth was tramatic for both of us, I swore I'd never do that to another child or myself again. So with my second son I choose a birthcenter and had a peaceful waterbirth with no drugs and no intervention. My second child has never and will never have any vaccinations, his placenta was attached for the first day of his life, and he has been on coco-biotics since birth. There are so many theories out about what autism is and how to treat and prevent it , I don't know weather to celebrate my son's nurodiversity or try to cure him! I don't know if he should undergo ABA or if I should homeschool him, or if we should just do GF/CF or the body ecology diet! I just don't know..........
If your son's autism is organic, ie genetic, none of those things will cure him anyway. They may make him more (of less) comfortable but they won't change him. If he's environmentally damaged then maybe those things will make a difference. Just do the best you can do. My son gets ABA at school (in a nice way, his teacher is awesome!) and we do floortime-ish things at home.


It's all really hard! I know your pain. Just know that autism isn't a curse. We're here for you.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:37 AM
 
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-These word are perfect, this is waht i need to say to all of you, I am just figuring all of this out, please don't feel insulted by my ignorance here, I seek enlightenment and acceptance! I just don't have all the information and expierance you people do, give a woman a chance to learn here please...

Welcome. I get it. Everything is a process. I'm glad you came back!


On what to do...I think it really depends on what your child struggles with. If you pm me your main concerns--health, digestion, development, anything...I'll give an opinion of where you might start. It seems like right now this board is a bit one-sided in attitude for some reason. I know you posted before about trying BED I think it was. I've explored and tried a lot! Many of us do things like OT or enzymes or diet or floortime or something. But what helps a child is so specific to that child--as would be true of neurotypical kids too of course. Every child is an individual. What helped my son is unlikely to help yours. But I have a lot of experience in many areas so I can still maybe help. I don't think it is at all inconsistent to say you accept your child and to also seek ways for him to feel better or function at his best. It isn't either this or that. Helping him feel better or make developmental discoveries that don't come natural to autism isn't going to take away his being.

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Old 07-04-2008, 02:56 AM
 
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Bede is classically, flamingly autistic and has never been vaccinated. He is also my third child, my third breastfed child, and my third child born in less than three years, so any lifelong toxic "body burden" I might have had was dissipated almost completely by the time he was gestated and nursed. I received no vaccinations or injections during my pregnancy or afterwards. I ate no seafood. He was born calmly at home with no intervention, and was breastfed til he was well past three years old.

There was no external cause for my son's autism. It is Who He Is. It's not strange or frightening to me because it's Who I Am too - I was informally diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome earlier this year, and it was like a key in a lock. When I have the big money free for a full assessment I'll get one, just to see if the official dx for me would be AS or PDD-NOS.

In my family, we have two diagnosed autists - me and Bede - and probably four or five undiagnosed. My oldest brother was absolutely autistic. My father has many autistic traits, as does my sister.

It's not vaccines. It's just life.
Well then you just MUST have had mercury fillings! Or maybe you live downstream from a toxic something or other.....

Just kidding (obviously). It seems SO HARD for some people to grasp that autism isn't caused by vaccines. Vaccines are bad (IMO) for lots of reasons. Autism isn't one of them.

Another completely UNVAXXED autistic child here. He is just perfect the way he is and autism is what makes him who he is so we clearly wouldn't change him for the world, though we have had to learn how to do things differently ourselves in order to work well together as a family. He has made us the parents he needed and we have become better people in the process. Lucky us


 

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Old 07-04-2008, 03:41 AM
 
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I appreciate the many answers, finally I hear from some parents. I could find no research on vaccinated v/s unvaccinated, and I have a three year old son who has been diagnosed with Autism. He only had his hepB shot at birth and a sigle dTap shot at nine months. He was born in a hospital and his birth was tramatic for both of us, I swore I'd never do that to another child or myself again. So with my second son I choose a birthcenter and had a peaceful waterbirth with no drugs and no intervention. My second child has never and will never have any vaccinations, his placenta was attached for the first day of his life, and he has been on coco-biotics since birth. There are so many theories out about what autism is and how to treat and prevent it , I don't know weather to celebrate my son's nurodiversity or try to cure him! I don't know if he should undergo ABA or if I should homeschool him, or if we should just do GF/CF or the body ecology diet! I just don't know..........
It can be a difficult journey even if you are not scared of the label of autism. We have always taken the approach of fixing what isn't working for ds and celebrating what was. I actually thought that was what people meant when they talked about "curing" their children (where is the embarrassed smiley? I really was that naive).

For example, my ds had such horrible anxiety that we hardly left the house for months at a time. He was miserable, we were miserable, and the overall quality of everyone's life was suffering. We needed to change the situation to help him, not change him to fit the situation. He also had such texture issues that he couldn't eat. His health was poor anyway as we were on a restrictive diet (not for autism) and he is food allergic. Because their was only one food he would eat his health was in crisis so we had to address that with therapy and diet.

We did the SCDiet and BED and it really did make a difference with him. He had quiet extreme behaviour beforehand that seemed to be caused (in part) by his food allergy (he gets behaviour as well as anaphylaxis symptoms from the same food) and his overall health as well as by autism. I don't regret doing the diets at all because it greatly improved his overall health and drastically reduced some of his difficulties (his anxiety improved, he zoned out much less so we got to enjoy his quirkiness more, his sensory avoidance decreased-though it hasn't disappeared, and his imaginative play skyrocketed-though his version of imaginative play is probably quite different from most people's ). It didn't "cure" his autism as his brain isn't defective, just different. In fact it allowed us to enjoy more about who he is instead of living in crisis mode while managing his eating and anxiety issues. But most importantly to us, his enjoyment of life greatly improved.

Most people are a wonderfully complex. Autistic people are no exception. My ds has behaviour problems caused by food, by yeast, and by nutritional deficiencies. These things contribute to HIS autistic behaviours. He also has autism (which also cause autistic behaviours ). Since a bunch of things are going on with him he needs a bunch of different kinds of help. Diets and supplements and have helped him. So has celebrating who he is. It doesn't have to be exclusively one way or another.

I wish you luck in your journey OP, it can be difficult to navigate with people on all sides throwing drastically different opinions your way. Follow your heart and you won't go wrong


 

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Old 07-04-2008, 08:50 AM
 
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This thread makes me both sad and angry.

First of all, I lost count of the number of posters who said "autism is NOT caused by vaccines" but then they would go on to say how angry it makes them when people *think* they know what causes autism. There are plenty of mothers who believe that vaccines *caused* their child's autism, and there are no genetic factors. I think that should be respected as the probably cause of THEIR child's autism---not yours.

Secondly, the increase in ASD is NOT imaginary. It is NOT based on better diagnosis. Growing up, I had not a single neighbor or classmate with ASD...neither did my dh...neither did my parents. You can't say the kids "just weren't diagnosed" when the kids had nothing to diagnose, now can you? In my childrens' world, MOST of the kids have something on the spectrum. There are no genetic epidemics.

Thirdly and most importantly, to me--as a mother, a counselor and a researcher, it bothers me to hear mothers say "autism is not a tragedy...accept my kid as he is...autism is not treatable; autism is the new normal; autism is wonderful, etc..." IMO--no child is a tragedy, but it is a tragedy for any parent to "give up" trying to help their child improve. This is not about us as parents--and people accepting us---it is about the child and tirelessly finding ways to help his life get better. One day he will grow up and we won't be there to remind him that everyone is wrong and he is ok. I just want us to never give up---to do so, is giving in to whatever "out there" is creating so many disorders. Having said that, I know we all love our children and do the best we can.

From your child's standpoint, how would you like to be stuck in a body, with a brain that won't let you do what others do? How would you like to try so hard to find the words---but they just won't come? How would it feel if all you could do was show rage or cry---because other emotions are unavailable? What if as an adult, you realized that your parents thought they were doing the best thing by doing nothing because they wanted everyone ELSE to change their attitude, rather than search for answers? I apologize for the harshness of this paragraph, but I think this attitude should be challenged.

I don't believe that vaccines alone cause autism. I like the book "Autism--a natural medicine guide" by Stephanie Marohn." It speaks to many possible causes of Autism. It seems to her, that it might be a combination of birth trauma; induction drugs; vaccines, etc on an already fragile immune system. She also speaks to environmental toxins (outgassing, lead, pesticides, etc). Maybe it's a body burden thing.

The truth is, there is no ONE TRUTH about what causes autism--at least not yet....and there is no ONE CURE. You don't know what the cause or the cure is, for any one child and neither do I. Like cancer cures, we cannot EVER stop looking for causes and treatments. Autism IS TRAGIC, if not for you--then for the children who have it--or for the people who love them. As mothers, please don't guilt other mothers if they grieve about it and are motivated to help their children or yours---especially if you aren't interested.
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:27 AM
 
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This thread makes me both sad and angry.

First of all, I lost count of the number of posters who said "autism is NOT caused by vaccines" but then they would go on to say how angry it makes them when people *think* they know what causes autism. There are plenty of mothers who believe that vaccines *caused* their child's autism, and there are no genetic factors. I think that should be respected as the probably cause of THEIR child's autism---not yours.

Secondly, the increase in ASD is NOT imaginary. It is NOT based on better diagnosis. Growing up, I had not a single neighbor or classmate with ASD...neither did my dh...neither did my parents. You can't say the kids "just weren't diagnosed" when the kids had nothing to diagnose, now can you? In my childrens' world, MOST of the kids have something on the spectrum. There are no genetic epidemics.

Thirdly and most importantly, to me--as a mother, a counselor and a researcher, it bothers me to hear mothers say "autism is not a tragedy...accept my kid as he is...autism is not treatable; autism is the new normal; autism is wonderful, etc..." IMO--no child is a tragedy, but it is a tragedy for any parent to "give up" trying to help their child improve. This is not about us as parents--and people accepting us---it is about the child and tirelessly finding ways to help his life get better. One day he will grow up and we won't be there to remind him that everyone is wrong and he is ok. I just want us to never give up---to do so, is giving in to whatever "out there" is creating so many disorders. Having said that, I know we all love our children and do the best we can.

From your child's standpoint, how would you like to be stuck in a body, with a brain that won't let you do what others do? How would you like to try so hard to find the words---but they just won't come? How would it feel if all you could do was show rage or cry---because other emotions are unavailable? What if as an adult, you realized that your parents thought they were doing the best thing by doing nothing because they wanted everyone ELSE to change their attitude, rather than search for answers? I apologize for the harshness of this paragraph, but I think this attitude should be challenged.

I don't believe that vaccines alone cause autism. I like the book "Autism--a natural medicine guide" by Stephanie Marohn." It speaks to many possible causes of Autism. It seems to her, that it might be a combination of birth trauma; induction drugs; vaccines, etc on an already fragile immune system. She also speaks to environmental toxins (outgassing, lead, pesticides, etc). Maybe it's a body burden thing.

The truth is, there is no ONE TRUTH about what causes autism--at least not yet....and there is no ONE CURE. You don't know what the cause or the cure is, for any one child and neither do I. Like cancer cures, we cannot EVER stop looking for causes and treatments. Autism IS TRAGIC, if not for you--then for the children who have it--or for the people who love them. As mothers, please don't guilt other mothers if they grieve about it and are motivated to help their children or yours---especially if you aren't interested.
Wow, many of these things are so not my experience with autism and this post makes me way sad. Yes my ds has a hard time getting words out but he is not living atragedy. He feels so many things and it is my job to teach him to label them and work through them. We accept autism here but my ds still gets therapy and I still help him live in this world as well as I can. He is not trapped by his mind or anything else but that is what we are taught to believe. That is why we become defensive. His mind thinks differently and it is really neat so see inside the way it works. Yes his life can be hard but we are working to make it easier. We are not working to make him normal because for whatever reason, he is not and that is not a possibility.

As for the many things causing autism, most of us contend that vaccines and toxins can cause autism like symptoms which can be alleviated or cured. My ds' can't and i'm tired of trying. At the end of the day he will be autistic. And coming from a persson who is disabled and has been her whole life, I am very offended by your post that both I and my child are inferior. I assure you I wouldn't trade my disabilities for being normal, it is part of who I am.

Misty, mama to my nurslings William(11/4/02) and Parker(7/13/04).
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:41 AM
 
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Secondly, the increase in ASD is NOT imaginary. It is NOT based on better diagnosis. Growing up, I had not a single neighbor or classmate with ASD...neither did my dh...neither did my parents. You can't say the kids "just weren't diagnosed" when the kids had nothing to diagnose, now can you? In my childrens' world, MOST of the kids have something on the spectrum. There are no genetic epidemics.
I knew lots of kids back in the day who likely would have now been diagnosed with autism now. I'd venture to say the ratios have changed little in my world. Kids who were different were less obvious then. You had to look in "resource rooms" and special ed classrooms. You had to look for the kids sitting in the principals office, possibly rocking, because they couldn't control their behaviors. You had to see the quiet, nerd in the back of the classroom constantly drawing pictures of robots and not playing with anyone at recess. Isolated, special programs and institutions with diagnosises of retardation and schizophrenia for the more severe cases. And, like now, there were some kids who started out with a bunch of autistic-like traits, and were able to adapt around them to appear typical by the time they were school aged, just always a little quirky, a little bit behind maybe, a bit of a late bloomer. Think of how many kids with just language delay are diagnosed as autistic now. There were kids with language delays then, too, but the protocol was to wait and see much longer. That's where the numbers come from. An autism diagnosis used to be a much more severe disorder meaning almost certain institutionalization. Clearly, a good number of kids with an autism diagnosis now wouldn't warranted that kind of treatment even back then. The parameters of what autism covers historically have changed a lot. Whether it accounts for all of it or not is unclear, but it's not as cut and dry as an epidemic.

As for the OP,
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here are so many theories out about what autism is and how to treat and prevent it , I don't know weather to celebrate my son's nurodiversity or try to cure him! I don't know if he should undergo ABA or if I should homeschool him, or if we should just do GF/CF or the body ecology diet! I just don't know..........
Take a breath. You can try lots and lots of things if you want until you find the things that work. My dd doesn't have a clear diagnosis of anything, which has worked for us. There isn't a recommended path for a non diagnosis. So, I watch her. I try things. When something works, whether it seems to make sense or not, I pursue other related avenues. Likely, there are lots of causes for autism-like symptoms, and each set of causes will have different therapies and treatments that work better. At the same time, each autisitic child is an individual, so therapies and treatments will need to be specific to that individual. His likes and dislikes, his personality, his strengths and weaknesses will all come in to play as you decide what to do. Research, look at all your different options, and most of all just watch your child and learn from him. You're doing the right things.
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:50 AM
 
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This thread makes me both sad and angry.

From your child's standpoint, how would you like to be stuck in a body, with a brain that won't let you do what others do? How would you like to try so hard to find the words---but they just won't come? How would it feel if all you could do was show rage or cry---because other emotions are unavailable? What if as an adult, you realized that your parents thought they were doing the best thing by doing nothing because they wanted everyone ELSE to change their attitude, rather than search for answers? I apologize for the harshness of this paragraph, but I think this attitude should be challenged.
As the parent of a child who could only rage and cry, who had no real means of communication his needs and who was terribly isolated I agree that yes, THAT is tragic. But after 8 months of various therapies to help him develop language skills and organize his sensory needs, he's no longer desperate and angry. He's always going to be autistic, b/c that's how his brain is wired. No amount of therapy or chelation will change that about him. I'm not sitting idly by while he wastes away, but I'm also not attempting to totally change his core being. Yes, I want him to learn to function in the society as it exists today, but I also want other people to change their attitudes about kids like Mark. I want them to realize that his behaviors aren't wrong or sad or dangerous, they are simply how he handles himself in a sensory rich environment. As his mother, I'm helping mitigate the larger issues that prevent Mark from being happy - those issues are gut/GI problems, sensory disfunction and some language problems - and I would never allow him to just "be" if just "being" made him miserable.

I can easily see where the concept of nuerodiversity is misinterpreted and it sounds like we're advocating for our children to be left alone and not offered assistance. That's not true. We're not ignoring the needs that prevent them from being happy, from navigating through society, from communicating. We're simply suggesting that there's a line in the shifting sand, that we stop short of trying to change who are children truly are.

NOTE - if a child is helped so greatly by gfcf, chelation or other means that they lose their formal autism dx, they probably weren't truly autistic in the first place, but rather had other health issues that created autistic behaviors. Not arguing that those kids needs help, but for me, those are a different subset of kids.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:24 AM
 
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I could not disagree more. My family tree is full of people who would have been classified as Aspie or autistic today. I can name off the top of my head a lot of my former classmates at all education levels that would have been diagnosed on the spectrum today.

Believing in neuro-diversity is NOT a complete and total rejection of helps and therapies,IMO. My kids get OT, ST and we've tried GFCF and some supplements. At the end of the day they are still autistic.

They aren't 'trapped'. Anyone who knows my oldest knows a happy go lucky kid that has some emotional regulation problems. He's very creative and very happy. He's not 'trapped'. Sure he gets frustrated. So do I and I'm 41 years old.

My great, great grandmother would most likely be on the spectrum today. Widowed in the Civil War with two small sons she packed up and moved to the swamps of Florida. Why is that quirky? Well, she insisted on bringing her piano through those swamps. She would NOT move without it. My great uncle read math books for pleasure, was an engineer, was very regulated and regimented, hated making eye contact, etc. Never had a vaccine. I could go on and on. I clearly remember a brilliant girl in my school years who was painfully socially awkward. I could go on and on.

As someone who is probably on the spectrum herself and comes from a genetic soup that is the perfect recipe for alphabet soup I take great offense to the 'autism is the worst thing in the world' myth that groups like Autism Speaks perpetuate. Our brains are wired differently. Does it make life more challenging? Of course. But there is beauty there that too often goes unnoticed due to the 'tragedy'.

If my kids weren't so high functioning I might be singing a different tune but they are and this is my - and their life. It is a not a 'tragedy'.

And finally, I personally find nothing more offensive and ridiculous as the term 'normal'. Normal by whose standards? It's a totally subjective premise. I have always hated that word. I don't want my kids to be 'normal'. I want them to be themselves but to realize there are certain ways they need to behave. Laws must be obeyed, for example.

I haven't 'given up' on my kids. I never will. I want them to reach their potential. I don't quite care what some random person thinks is 'normal.'

No one knew why I was so different as a child. Despite that I turned out as a productive member of society. Despite the fact that I wasn't 'cured'.
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:52 AM
 
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I know it's taken awhile, but I am returning this thread now. Please...pretty please, keep your responses within the UA. I will close it if it gets out of hand, and it is definately a conversation that we need to have.

 
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:58 PM
 
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I clearly remember a brilliant girl in my school years who was painfully socially awkward.
It was me. :

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Old 07-05-2008, 02:26 PM
 
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I dont have an autistic child and I really dont know if the vaccines may have anything to do with it, but...I will say that my 2nd stopped all development and even went backwards a bit after her first series (which we had postponed a bit; she also didnt get Hep B in the hospital). We seriously thought she was autistic, she was behind on everything, would'nt make eye contact, would'nt smile or laugh or talk, and mostly just cried no matter what we did.

We still dont know what exactly happened, but it was definately the vaccines that caused this and gradually she started catching back up after she was 2.5 or so. Now at 5.5 she's almost normal, she still has breakdowns sometimes and is um...ditzy? But for the most part she's normal.

It makes me wonder if vaccines may be a trigger for a child who is already boarderline? Or if it triggers some other...thing? I dunno. She never got vaccines after that one set, so maybe her body was able to recover? I dunno...I'm def not saying all kids with autism have vaccines as a cause, not even close, but it'd be interesting to see if it is a trigger for something in certain kids.

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Old 07-05-2008, 03:17 PM
 
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From your child's standpoint, how would you like to be stuck in a body, with a brain that won't let you do what others do?
I like it fine. I would not have it any other way. While I am not able to do everything that others do (who is?), there are many things that I am able to do, that I enjoy doing, because I am autistic.

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How would you like to try so hard to find the words---but they just won't come?
It is somewhat frustrating (more frustrating than it would be if alternative forms of communication were more accepted), but there again are benefits which outweigh this. I am semi-verbal but I would rather never speak again than be made non-autistic.

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How would it feel if all you could do was show rage or cry---because other emotions are unavailable?
This is simply false. And rather insulting. Autistics have the same range of emotions that non-autistics do.

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What if as an adult, you realized that your parents thought they were doing the best thing by doing nothing because they wanted everyone ELSE to change their attitude, rather than search for answers?
Accepting your child is not "doing nothing."

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Autism IS TRAGIC, if not for you--then for the children who have it--or for the people who love them.
Nope. Autism is not tragic for me (former autistic child, current autistic adult). It is not tragic for my older daughter (autistic child). It is not tragic for my younger daughter (probable autistic child). It is not tragic for the people who love us, who accept us for who we are.

How can you claim to know that autism is tragic, that autistics have an inferior quality of life, over and against the claims to the contrary of actual, live autistics?
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:31 PM
 
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I love this forum

Christine, mom to C(7.5) - E(5) - J(3) - B(10 mos)

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Old 07-05-2008, 03:36 PM
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i will never cease to find something entertaining in a darkly comic way. how can anyone insist they know all about the internal life of a person and also insist that that person has no way of communicating?

saying "my child can't feel anything (can only feel rage and sadness, can't love, etc) please help!" and "my child can't tell me anything about what he's thinking please help!" at the same time seems a bit strange. you can't make a claim and then follow it with a statement that contradicts your ability to obtain any evidence in support of the first claim.
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:00 PM
 
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Here's a scenario. By the end of your child's first year, it becomes apparent that she is left-handed. Many, many things are designed with right-hand dominance in mind - heck even things as simple as desks and place settings. Do you embark on a strict regimen of behavior modification to teach your child not to use her left hand and throw money at finding a cure for it complete with videos showing left-handed children not being able to use scissors and how empty their lives are? Or do you accept your child's left-handedness and while she is young cater her world to her hand-dominance and as she gets older teach her tricks to cope with a world that is designed around being right-handed?

How is what I am doing for my son right now any different? I'm not sure when the practice actually stopped, but people used to have no qualms about strapping down a left-handed child's left arm in order to force them to use their right hand, the same way that society tells me right now that I have to fix my autistic son. He doesn't need fixing, he's fine the way he is. As he gets older we will teach him how to navigate this world which is not designed with him in mind because that is what being a parent is about.
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:15 PM
 
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Growing up, I had not a single neighbor or classmate with ASD...neither did my dh...neither did my parents. You can't say the kids "just weren't diagnosed" when the kids had nothing to diagnose, now can you?
Yes, I most certainly can say that it just wasn't diagnosed like it is today. I would have been diagnosed with an SPD and my dh would have had an autism diagnosis (at the very least PDD-NOS, but likely either autism (because he was late aquiring speech) or Aspbergers (because once he started talking, he had the "little professor" thing going on along with difficulties with social interactions). If you look at a LOT of people in both of our families, there are a lot of people that toe the line of the spectrum, if not on the spectrum.

You didn't see as many people with the label autistic when me, my parents, and my grandparents were growing up for several reasons. First, even those with milder quirks were still accepted because there wasn't a desperate need to diagnose everything...there was just "the guy who doesn't really talk" or "the hermit" or "book smart but zero social skills", or, sadly, "mentally retarded".

When my parents were kids, you NEVER saw anybody with differences growing up because if your child was extremely different, you put them in an institution or just kept them at home. They were not educated, they were not required to be educated. Even when I went to school, just following the law changes in the early 70s that required all children to receive an education, it would still be another 30 years before trying to include them in the mainstream classrooms was a goal and began to be implemented. Instead, there were special schools set up that you sent your child to if they were different.

Mom to 10yo Autistic Wonder Boy and 6yo Inquisitive Fireball Girl . December birthdays.

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Old 07-05-2008, 06:55 PM
 
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It was me. :
Awesome! I remember after our sophmore year she transferred to the Governor's School of Math and Sciences. Her whole family was brilliant and wonderfully different. I felt I belonged with them.
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:56 PM
 
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It's been nice hearing both views. I have a son who was diagnosed with "autism" in 2001, but I never thought it was autism. I knew it was damage from vaccines period, I saw it happen and this was long before people were having conversations like this one.. He is now fully recovered. Many will say because he is recovered that he must never have autism. Well...four doctors diagnosed him with autism back then....were they wrong... was he just vaccine damaged...and the only diagnosis they could come up with for his symptoms was autism???

Could there be 2 separate things going on here could some children have *autism* and while others are *vaccine damaged* which causes similar symptoms which doctors are just calling autism??
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:46 PM
 
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[QUOTE=angndon;11626081]It's been nice hearing both views. I have a son who was diagnosed with "autism" in 2001, but I never thought it was autism. I knew it was damage from vaccines period, I saw it happen and this was long before people were having conversations like this one.. He is now fully recovered. Many will say because he is recovered that he must never have autism. Well...four doctors diagnosed him with autism back then....were they wrong... was he just vaccine damaged...and the only diagnosis they could come up with for his symptoms was autism???

Could there be 2 separate things going on here could some children have *autism* and while others are *vaccine damaged* which causes similar symptoms which doctors are just calling autism??[/QUOTE]


Yes! And there is a third option that you have a child with autism that has also been hurt by vaccines, environment, diet, or another trigger. I get the impresion that children who are autistic may be more prone to reacting to these things. The main point is that even when you treat for these things, a child with autism still has autism. Maybe some of their symptoms will be reduced, but that doesn't mean that they are "cured".

A child who has been damaged by an environmental trigger may display autism like symptoms without actually being autistic, and once you cure the damage that the child has suffered, they no longer have autistic symptoms. Hence they were never autistic in teh first place, just reacting to their environment.

 
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Old 07-05-2008, 09:09 PM
 
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A child who has been damaged by an environmental trigger may display autism like symptoms without actually being autistic, and once you cure the damage that the child has suffered, they no longer have autistic symptoms. Hence they were never autistic in teh first place, just reacting to their environment.
But it seems very difficult to have that discussion here--for parents to explore the factors involved in their individual circumstances, and then discuss what to do next. I see people saying "PM me" for ideas, but not a lot of open discussion.

My personal interest is that I would've been darn grateful last year if I could've come here to hear what other people thought and had decided in their individual circumstances about the controversial chelation. I think some parents have considered it. My health is messed up from my fillings, and the decision to chelate myself was pretty easy. It was _much_ harder to make a decision about my kids. I felt lonely and scared and I really would have been grateful to hear from other parents who had considered the same thing. But it feels like we can't bring up certain things here. And MDC is such a great place that it seems like this could be incorporated as well.
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:49 PM
 
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But it seems very difficult to have that discussion here--for parents to explore the factors involved in their individual circumstances, and then discuss what to do next. I see people saying "PM me" for ideas, but not a lot of open discussion.

My personal interest is that I would've been darn grateful last year if I could've come here to hear what other people thought and had decided in their individual circumstances about the controversial chelation. I think some parents have considered it. My health is messed up from my fillings, and the decision to chelate myself was pretty easy. It was _much_ harder to make a decision about my kids. I felt lonely and scared and I really would have been grateful to hear from other parents who had considered the same thing. But it feels like we can't bring up certain things here. And MDC is such a great place that it seems like this could be incorporated as well.
Yes, it is a very difficult discusion to have. I think most people have very passionate points of view when it comes to their children. Autism in an intrinsic part of who our children are. When phrases get thrown around about "curing autism" in general, it often comes across as our children are the disease that needs to be cured.

I think a less offensive way to phrase these types of questions would be something along the lines of "my child is having difficulty with blah, blah, blah symptom. Has anyone tried blah, blah blah to help with that?"

I hope that made sense.

Here is the link to the sticky at the top of the page biomedical treatments/supplements for kids on the autism spectrum. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=863754
I think there are some great resources there that would be helpful.
I don't know if you've checked this thread out also, but it is a great rescource that may help to shed more light on your question.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=926323

 
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:34 AM
 
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This thread has been very informative to me. I had really never heard the alternate perspectives---and always thought "why wouldn't anyone want to cure their child?" ....It didn't really occur to me that many HAVE tried----or they hit a ceiling and it becomes harder on the kid to keep pushing him, than it is to slow down and accept the gifts he has--and the life ahead. I think we are as a society, very frustrated and divided about how to handle the growing numbers. We grasp at straws...we are terrified to vaccinate....we look for any sign of a delay. I am one of those people, as I lost two sisters to a degenerative neurological disorder that looked like CP or Rett Syndrome or Severe Autism...no one could diagnose it. They were fine until 18 months---then lost skills and became profoundly disabled. They spent their days in an institution. They were not twins--but were 3 years apart in age! I know---my poor mother! So as a parent, I'm running scared and frustrated. I feel I need to apologize for my posting tone sometimes...it's born out of fear; and having no answers from the past. I just wanted to say that I'm amazed at the SN moms and all that you know--and do.
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Old 07-06-2008, 03:06 AM
 
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Secondly, the increase in ASD is NOT imaginary. It is NOT based on better diagnosis. Growing up, I had not a single neighbor or classmate with ASD...neither did my dh...neither did my parents. You can't say the kids "just weren't diagnosed" when the kids had nothing to diagnose, now can you? In my childrens' world, MOST of the kids have something on the spectrum. There are no genetic epidemics.
Actually, Asperger's (which is on the Autism Spectrum) wasn't even recognized in the US until more recently, those with AS obviously are not included in the numbers from 10-20+ years ago... when we were kids. Since it wasn't recognized in the US, they were not diagnosed. And 20 years ago, Autism wasn't recognized as a spectrum, only "severely Autistic" individuals were diagnosed. Then, factor in how many families hid it and the different social structures that we have now compared to back then.

I'm Autistic by way of Asperger's, my parents took me to all kinds of therapists and such as a child to try to "figure me out". They knew I was different but didn't know how or why. But the professionals were stumped and I actually RESEARCHED psychology to figure out how I was supposed to act around these professionals to look "normal". (I was a major book worm and read about everything!) My mom still talks about how I "had everyone fooled". I didn't figure out why I was different until I was an adult. The resources and information just were not there when I was a kid.

THEN, after my DS got his diagnosis my grandmother says "Oh, that's like your uncles." But no one had told me that before, makes you wonder how many others were/are that you have no idea about.

Mom to Joscelyne 14, Andrew 12, and Mackenzie 10 and wife to Nate.
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Old 07-06-2008, 04:56 AM
 
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Could there be 2 separate things going on here could some children have *autism* and while others are *vaccine damaged* which causes similar symptoms which doctors are just calling autism??
My opinion is that there are a lot more than 2 things going on. There's SPD, there's Asperger's, there's classic autism, there are other disorders of regulation (such as ADHD) that might be related or might not. There are medical conditions/issues where an individual develops behaviors that are autistic-like. I think it's still a puzzle as to how all these things fit together and what's best for an individual.

To the OP: Unfortunately, there isn't an easy answer to your question. I guess with therapies, I'd start with the ones that address current presssing needs - is it communication, self-regulation or sensory behaviors? I'm a big fan of the Floortime models because I think they're going to ultimately lead the parent and child to the best understanding of each other, but I understand that sometimes kids need to learn specific skills. Our ds doesn't have autism (but he does have SPD), and I did some pretty classic "behaviorist" training for potty training and then to get him to wipe his own bottom. ABA does sometimes help kids get a handle on skills when they don't seem to know where to begin.

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Old 07-06-2008, 09:15 AM
 
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No doubt, it would be helpful if the APA (or whoever decides these things) would split the autism spectrum into more specific disorders, rather than just ASD (autism). Maybe if it were split based on the area of the brain that is involved, it might help therapists and doctors (and insurance companies) when it comes to diagnosis and treatment. It would also be more accurate statistically, rather than just saying that "autism" has increased by xyz percent in 10 years (which does nothing but scare people).
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:35 AM
 
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No doubt, it would be helpful if the APA (or whoever decides these things) would split the autism spectrum into more specific disorders, rather than just ASD (autism). Maybe if it were split based on the area of the brain that is involved, it might help therapists and doctors (and insurance companies) when it comes to diagnosis and treatment. It would also be more accurate statistically, rather than just saying that "autism" has increased by xyz percent in 10 years (which does nothing but scare people).
If you were to sit down and look at the symptoms for 100 different children with autism, I doubt any of their combination of symptoms would exactly match each other. I think that's why it's a spectrum. You can be anywhere on it and not actually match up with any specific dx.

 
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Old 07-06-2008, 01:45 PM
 
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I think most people have very passionate points of view when it comes to their children. Autism in an intrinsic part of who our children are. When phrases get thrown around about "curing autism" in general, it often comes across as our children are the disease that needs to be cured.
I bolded part of what you wrote because I think it's key. Each parent needs to be free to make this determination--what's going on in my situation, with my child. I don't see a lot of open discussion that lets parents explore that here. I don't doubt the intentions or the correctness of parents who feel their children are autistic inherently, that it is as intrinsic to them as any other aspect. It would be incredibly arrogant of me to assume they're wrong, and I really fundamentally believe that parents know their children best.

But I also think that parents should be able to honestly explore the issue--I'm not talking about an argument on the general topic "what causes autism" but the specific "what's going on in my situation, can others share their experiences" type of discussion. Because what's going on may not be obvious from the beginning, and talking to parents who have had similar experiences can help bring clarity.

I don't think it diminishes one parent for another to make a different decision for their own child--different kids, different circumstances. But I don't think, right now, we have a place where we can have this discussion. I see a few parents who have experience with biomed type stuff and who barely post because of the negativity associated with that approach. I think the one-size-fits-all voice of some of the big biomed advocacy groups is overshadowing the fact that it's the right approach for some kids, and being able to discuss it here would really help some parents.
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