Ivy and I were verbally assulted - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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long and rambly.. sorry..

Ivy and a little 7 year old girl in the neighborhood had a fight. They are always fighting. This little girl is an angry child a lot of the time and says things that she knows will upset Ivy. Ivy pulled her hair. She then came inside to tattle on herself. (she always does this. She beats the other party to the door and then cries and screams and wets herself when I have to actually answer the door and let the other person speak.) So I fixed the problem. Play nice kids. I sent them back out. All was fine.

About 3 minutes later Ivy comes screaming inside, and then there was pounding on the door. I answer it and a skinny woman is on my porch, younger than me. She starts yelling at me, telling me Ivy spit in the other girls face. I ask her if she's the girls mother. She gets insulted and says its not my business, and yells at me saying I have an attitude. I explain that I don't remember seeing her before, and she says we've met before a few times. She gave me a look that said she didn't believe me. The "Oh ya whatever" look. She says that Ivy is a hellion and that before we moved in the neighborhood was fine and they had no issues. I try to tell her that actually.. we lived here first, and she interrupts me to tell me I have an attitude and can I please not speak to her in that voice? .... finally I say, "This is my porch, if I want to have an attitude I will." because I wasn't! And I was tired of her yelling at me!

She rambles on about the spitting. Now, I know for a fact that Ivy didn't spit on her because she would have told me right away. She said, "No mama! Only pulled her hair like this. Like this! I didn't spit. No no." And after all the things this girl has done to Ivy......... So I attempt to address the so called spitting, I wanted to explain that Ivy might not understand everything thats said to her, since the woman said that she was just talking to Ivy sternly and telling her she had to be good when she spit on the girl. So I say, "I'm not sure if you know or not, but Ivy is autistic. So sometimes it..." and she cut me off screaming at me.

"Yes I know she is! But that doesn't give her the ____ing right to spit on someone else! Thats wrong! And when I catch mine doing something wrong I punish them! I can't beat em. I can't lock em up. What else do you expect me to do?! Ooooooh the autistic girl! Whatever. It aint a ___ing free pass." So I try to tell her that I know the girls fight a lot, she says that they come to her all the time and its Ivys fault most of the time. I'm trying really hard to listen to her words and just keep my face neutral.

Then she keeps insulting Ivy and saying its all her fault. I say, "Well they aren't perfect, your neice has her moments too." and suddenly she starts hurling even more insults my way.

"Keep your ___ing autistic freak a$$____ daughter away from my kids!"
I said, "Oh thats mature." and she keeps screaming and calling me really nasty names. She kept screaming how horrible my daughter was. So I said, would you like the steak knives I took away from your neice? I still have them in the house. She told me to keep them and slice my throat open and die. She screamed more "autistic freak" things. "Of course your kids are messed up! Just look at you! You ___ing freak." she screamed.

My daughter was there the whole time. She heard everything. The other kids were with the other woman, and they stood there smiling the whole time.

Afterwards Ivy was crying saying, "I want to move." over and over again. And, "Why does she hate me before she doesn't know me yet?" And I don't have an answer except, some people can be mean like that.

I feel sick about this.

The other people? They're nothing good. Police and CPS are at their house reguarly. They have four kids unsupervised there. Including twin infants. (just last month police were called because they left the babies alone in the house for hours while they went to a baseball game.) The brother and sister are 7 and 9 and treat Ivy very badly. In this neighborhood though you can't just stay away from people. Its a close neighborhood. (gotta love low income housing) So Ivy will have to interact with the children at some point, and she doesn't even know how NOT to. I tell her to stay away from them, but that only lasts a few minutes and still she says, "Why?" and doesn't understand.

I've dealt with the kids on my own since I moved here. When the girl shoved Ivy in a closet and hacked off all her hair I should have called the police. But I didn't. I decided to just suck it up and not allow my child inside their house instead. Knives, spray paint, fingernail polish dumped over her head.. the list goes on. I dealt with all of it without knocking on their door, because #1 they were never home and #2 why bother? If they let their kids act like that, what good is it going to do to say anything?

And they have the nerve to scream at me.

I honestly did not recognize her. I can see now that she thought I was being rude and dismissive. However I had no idea who she was.

I just can't believe someone said those things about my daughter. And in front of her. No one in the neighborhood likes them, and their days are numbered living here before housing kicks them out. I just can't believe an adult would say those things...

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#2 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 09:24 AM
 
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no advice, but I would have just spit in her face
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#3 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 09:26 AM
 
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oh honey that's just awful!
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#4 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 09:30 AM
 
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I am so very, very sorry that you and your daughter were treated that way.

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#5 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 09:40 AM
 
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That's horrible. That woman had no right to scream at you.

I know it's difficult to do, but I think I would only let my child out if I could go out too. The stuff that these other children have done to her in the past - dumping spray paint and nail polish on her head - and the other things you described are scary enough. The fact that they have no responsible adult to watch over the kids... it's all scary. I would not let her play with them AT ALL. Even if you have to go to a park farther away from your neighborhood to play.

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#6 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 09:55 AM
 
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#7 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 10:17 AM
 
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I think I'd file a police report and find out about getting a restraining order to keep them away from your family.

I probably would've done the same as ShaggyDaddy. Or at least slammed the door in her face. I would've had a hard time controlling my temper.

I'm really sorry you and Ivy experienced that.

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#8 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 10:46 AM
 
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Ditto on trying for a restraining order. At the very least file a report for assault. (Assault=threatening harm, and is illegal even if they don't lay a finger on you.)

Y'know that girl has given you the solution to this, especially given the family's history of run ins with the cops and CPS, how easily do you bruise and were there any witnesses to the full exchange with the woman? Not that I would ever condone bearing false witness, but it's nice to think about--n'est-ce pas?
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#9 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 11:01 AM
 
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How horrible.
I can say all this stuff I would have done but in the situation I probably would have froze.

That said, my sons are about Ivy's age. I wouldn't let either of them out unsupervised even without all the assaults she's already endured.

I mean there are all kinds of bad stuff out there and an autistic child is (I think) especially vulnerable to being taken advantage of. I'm thinking adults here too and worse stuff. She needs protection.

That said, this sounds so awful. Yuck.

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#10 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 11:20 AM
 
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When the girl shoved Ivy in a closet and hacked off all her hair I should have called the police. But I didn't. I decided to just suck it up and not allow my child inside their house instead. Knives, spray paint, fingernail polish dumped over her head.. the list goes on.

This is extremely scary to me. It sounds dang close to sociopathic if you ask me. Forget about a restraining order, MOVE. You have to protect your dd. If they are psycho enough to do those types of things to her, they are psycho enough to actually physically hurt her, very badly. Sorry mama.

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#11 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 12:11 PM
 
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This is extremely scary to me. It sounds dang close to sociopathic if you ask me. Forget about a restraining order, MOVE. You have to protect your dd. If they are psycho enough to do those types of things to her, they are psycho enough to actually physically hurt her, very badly. Sorry mama.
I agree with this. There is a book on the subject called Without Conscience by Robert D. Hare that I am reading, and this sounds like some of the behaviour he describes.

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#12 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 12:50 PM
 
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I would be calling the police and filing a report based on the prior history of the child assaulting your daughter, now this woman is verbally assaulting your family, it sounds like they have very serious problems. I'd be very concerned about this situation escalating further.

FWIW my DD and were verbally assaulted at the store this summer by an elderly couple who had zero manners, my DD who wasn't even 2 at the time was screeching in a normal toddler manner. The people waited until I was out of the store and pulled up to me and began to tell me what a terrible mother I was and what the hell I was doing even having a child. I told them they were rude and offensive. Then they went even crazier, I told them to screw themselves. I should have said *F-U*, but I didn't want to cuss in front of my DD, although if there ever was a time to do it, that was the moment.

I just can't believe the audacity of some people.:

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#13 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 01:09 PM
 
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What she thought about your behavior doesn't really matter, she's an adult and is responsible for her own reactions. She way over-reacted. Definitely call the police next time anything happens, neither you nor Ivy deserve to be treated that way, and, from your description, the mom is not going to start behaving any better, and their kids are going to keep terrorizing the neighborhood.
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#14 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 01:21 PM
 
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I am so sorry you and Ivy had to here all of that! I would be really concerned about it escalating as well, especially since you pointed out that this is a low income housing development. All it takes is that woman getting a few more people together, and you and Ivy would be in serious danger. File a police report, and report her to CPS using the anonymous tip line. The more complaints against her, the faster she will be out of there. I am sure if you could, you would already be out of there yourself. Keep us posted. I will be thinking of you both.

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#15 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think I was stunned. Ivy has been spit on numerous times and I didn't go knocking on doors to scream at the parents. So I just couldn't understand why she was so angry.

Later on I figured that part of it must have been that she thought I was trying to be snotty to her by saying I didn't know who she was and asking if she was the parent. (as in, do YOU have the right to be talking to me about this?- which wasn't my intent at all.) I really didn't recognize her. I don't remember faces at all. I try, but.. *sigh*

I guess some people like drama? I felt conflicted. Like, I should scream back at her and stand up for my daughter and myself.. but watching her scream and yell made me want to stand silent even more. My daughter was already watching one woman lose control of herself. I didn't want to be one of them.

I'm not a huge fan of police. (no disrespect meant to anyone) I am scared of them. I avoid calling them if I can. I did look up the laws and in this state harassment has to happen three times before you can file anything.

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#16 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 01:38 PM
 
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Unbelievable!!! I'm so sorry you had to endure such reprehensible behavior from an ADULT!
I agree with others that the police should be called. I would call CPS if you truly feel this child is in danger.

Also, I wouldn't let your daughter play with this child anymore. It sounds unsafe and it sounds like it's causing too much stress for Ivy

It never ceases to amaze me the attitude people have towards autistic or behaviorally challenged children. Ok, so when your child does something "naughty"...you're supposed to punish them according to the "victim's" specifications? Ughhhh

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#17 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 01:52 PM
 
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That is so horrible. I would call the police and get a restrainig order against the adults in the house. They seem very hostile. If you file a report about todays incident, you can also include past things that have happened.

Good luck Mama and I'm sorry Ivy heard everything.

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#18 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 01:56 PM
 
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no advice, but I would have just spit in her face
f*cking oath i would have too. wow. you handled it much better than i would have.

i am so, so sad for you mama. well and truely. i would do my best to move. no child (especially an autistic one) should ever have to deal with being abused like that by other children (and other children pouring nail polish on her or spitting on her IS abuse). i am mortified and heartbroken at the same time.
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#19 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 02:02 PM
 
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Why don't you just call the police (there is a non-emergency line or community information line in Ontario, I don't know about where you are) and just ask them for advice on how to handle the situation. It may be that they want to just record the incident in case it happens again, or they may just be able to tell you what steps you should take if it happens again. Since you're uncomfortable around police, it gives you the option of being anonymous if you don't want to pursue it.

Are you able to move, or are you stuck there? Are there good families that you can talk to about the problem? Is there a support group in the housing?
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#20 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 02:05 PM
 
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no advice, but I would have just spit in her face
I would have done much more than this...

I would call the police and obtain warrants for assault. I would also contact CPS with the information that you have and explain the situation- that this is not a "malicious" complaint but just an example of the instability that goes on in their home. And btw- if they say it's not "enough" to go out on an investigation- ask if there is a prevention or ongoing unit that can look into it- because they are typically the units that can go out on complaints that don't rise to the standards of needing a CPS investigator in the home.

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#21 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 02:45 PM
 
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I'm so sorry this happened to you and Ivy.I don't know what I would have done,but I know I wouldn't have kept my cool.I would have flipped.It's horrible that a child can't even play in her own neighborhood without fear of being assaulted.I would call the police and CPS,I'm not a big fan either as I've had some bad experiences but it may be worth it.

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#22 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 03:50 PM
 
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Why don't you just call the police (there is a non-emergency line or community information line in Ontario, I don't know about where you are) and just ask them for advice on how to handle the situation. It may be that they want to just record the incident in case it happens again, or they may just be able to tell you what steps you should take if it happens again. Since you're uncomfortable around police, it gives you the option of being anonymous if you don't want to pursue it.
My thoughts exactly.

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#23 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 04:00 PM
 
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Wow! People just don't have boundries or manners anymore. It amazes me to watch the decline of western civilization. People insulting others at grocery stores and assaulting them on their front porch. I'm so sorry you and your DD endured that. s
I think you handled it wonderfully and calmly. I can't say for sure what I would have done, but I know my fist clenched while reading. I hope they move!
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#24 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 04:10 PM
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Wow - sorry this happened to you and your daughter. My two cents (for what it's worth):

1. Your daughter cannot "play" with this family anymore. Bar none. No exceptions - Even if the kids seem like they'd get along at some point. The kids are messed up and even when nice, have the capacity to be mean and spiteful. They have a screwed up home life and kids like that can have the tendency to take pleasure in other people's misery - classic bullying principles here - They have no power over their own lives, so they assert power over other kids (note the smiles on their faces when their "mother" was yelling at you.)

2. Never engage a woman like this - The moment you had the idea that she was unreasonable is the moment that you end the conversation "Get off my porch or I'm calling the police" and then slam the door - You can't reason with someone as irrational as that - She is a dysfunctional mess, she will only spew venom (as she did). Bullying principles apply here too - she knew that your daughter is vulnerable by way of her autism and she took full advantage by demeaning her and you. (your blood must have been boiling! the rage, the rage I would feel).

3. Not to get all zen on you but who needs that kind of negativity in one's life? Don't let a pathetic and ignorant person like that infect your life - Don't give her that power over you. Explain to your daughter that those neighbours have a sick family and don't know how to treat people. That she should feel sorry for them because they are miserable and unhappy. Reiterate how wonderful she is and that some people in life are just mean and unkind.

4. I don't know what I'd do re the police or CPS because I don't really know what would come of it - you'd expend a bunch of energy, rehash everything and nothing would change. I have no idea about your family situation but you might want to look into moving or getting your name on a waitlist for somewhere else. The problem with that is that dysfunction can often accompany any low income housing situation (it's reality - I know from childhood experience) so you might encounter the same kinds of people wherever you go. At the very least, keep her away from them and starting looking for some nice kid options - surely there are some nice kids around (how sad, if that's not true).

5. What about the housing authority - Do local public housing laws prohibit intimidation/harassment on public grounds...can you lodge a complaint? Maybe write your housing authority and explain what has happened.
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#25 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 04:55 PM
 
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I'm not a huge fan of police. (no disrespect meant to anyone) I am scared of them. I avoid calling them if I can.
Wow.

I don't know how to say this gently, but I'll try...

You need to protect your daughter. You are the only one who can. If you don't call the police and at least get their advice, god knows what those kids could end up doing to her.

Please, please - do not let her "play" with them again. Do not let her go near them again. She doesn't deserve this.
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#26 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 05:27 PM
 
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Wow.

I don't know how to say this gently, but I'll try...

You need to protect your daughter. You are the only one who can. If you don't call the police and at least get their advice, god knows what those kids could end up doing to her.

Please, please - do not let her "play" with them again. Do not let her go near them again. She doesn't deserve this.
I agree with this, she pushed your DD into a closet and chopped off her hair, these children sound like they have serious issues. I'd be really concerned about this.

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#27 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow.

I don't know how to say this gently, but I'll try...

You need to protect your daughter. You are the only one who can. If you don't call the police and at least get their advice, god knows what those kids could end up doing to her.

Please, please - do not let her "play" with them again. Do not let her go near them again. She doesn't deserve this.
I haven't let her outside since then actually. Its hard to explain but everyone around here is outside. We aren't near a big road so its fairly safe as far as road danger, which was my MAIN concern when I moved here. Now there are other concerns obviously.

We just moved here about 8 months ago. And we get along with most all the other neighbors. In fact, quite a few are great. We also have a few relatives here. Its a huge step up from where we were living before. (if you can believe that.)

I have never encountered an adult that was angry at me because of my child. I've never had anyone use my childs autism diagnosis against her. In fact, the only time I've had that happen was when my ex husband tried to use my diagnosis against me in court during our custody battle. Its a very bitter, angry thing to do I think.. and the whole thing just shocked me.

I will be calling the housing authority and letting them know what happened. I will work up the nerve to contact the police and at least ask them what to do, or even just ask them to make a note of it. Its my personal feelings that doing anything big will make the situation escalate even more, because thats just the type of person this is.

(she isn't the childrens mother, she's the aunt. A very young aunt. She has a 2 year old child herself. And most days she's sitting outside on a bench in barely there clothes, smoking, with the teenagers of the neighborhood.)

I haven't been letting Ivy play outside with those children. And I have told her she cannot play with them anymore, but.. why does that feel wrong to me???? It feels like I'm blaming and taking it out on the children for something that is the parents fault. (or aunts)

I hate conflict.

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#28 of 45 Old 10-14-2008, 06:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nature View Post
I haven't been letting Ivy play outside with those children. And I have told her she cannot play with them anymore, but.. why does that feel wrong to me???? It feels like I'm blaming and taking it out on the children for something that is the parents fault.
I do not want to be rude to you, but I can't wrap my mind around this statement. You feel bad that you are "taking it out on the children"? These children tortured Ivy. Forget about the stupid adults, the kids have proved that they get enjoyment out of torturing and humiliating another human being. There is NO WAY IN HELL I would continue to live near people like this. An acquaintance of mine dealt with kids like this in his neighborhood when he was a child. They tied him to a tree and tried to set him on fire. He's still dealing with the trauma. I would be much less concerned about the mom/aunt's attitude than about the fact your daughter was assaulted and humiliated.

+ = and .
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#29 of 45 Old 10-15-2008, 04:32 AM
 
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oh mama. again i'm so sorry this happened to your little girl... but you really need to stop thinking about whats fair regarding playing/going outside and start thinking about whats dangerous/safe. i hope in saying this, you don't think i am being rude - these are just my honest thoughts. right now, ivy interacting with those troubled kids is NOT safe, not in the least. my heart breaks that she endured what she did. it's not just "kids being mean" or "kids will be kids" - they have serious issues here and those kids need help before they are to interact with other kids. it's kids like that, that grow up to be kids like this.

as well, i wouldn't want to deal with someone who has a 2 year old baby and sits there half naked, smoking with the neighbourhood teens. i won't even start with that one. for all you know the aunt could be one major pyschopath too and you don't know what she could plan behind you or your daughters back. i would seriously consider re-locating. yes there are good/bad in every neighbourhood, but in some there are far more disturbed/bad than good. your main (or should i say only?) priority right now is protecting your little girl from further trauma. situations like this are tricky. you need to be smart and very careful about who you are talking to, who your daughter is interacting with and what you say about one person to the next even if they seem to support your train of thought. people are very two faced these days, i hardly have trust in anyone anymore. sad but true.

again.
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#30 of 45 Old 10-15-2008, 08:00 AM
 
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I couldn't help reading your post and not responding. This is extreme, but I have to say it....

I had a close friend who hung out with kids like that when she was little. They even cut her hair. Their bullying progressed. They and their teen-aged baby-sitter ended up molesting her. Her mother did *nothing* bc they were "just kids." This friend has never been able to have a healthy normal relationship with another adult. My heart breaks when I think of her.

Please do NOT let your daughter around those kids, and please stop feeling guilty. While police and CPS can be scary, they exist precisely for situations like this.

If you can't move, please consider getting her into some self-defense classes so she understands how to deal with these people when they attack her.

And maybe it would be okay to stop telling her to feel sorry for the family. My mom is a very compassionate person (something I really love and respect about her). However, too often she said those types of things when I got bullied. It did *nothing* to teach me how to defend myself. I felt like I deserved being beat up and could do nothing to stop it. So, I let myself continue to be victimized up into high school. This is part of what has built up as over 30 years worth of unhealthy anger that I'm just now coming to work on.

While it is important to be compassionate, there comes a time to separate actions from psychology. The most important people you need to protect are yourself and your family. If you are still concerned for those other kids, call CPS so someday they may be able to get help, but they are not your #1 responsibility to care about—you and your daughter are. Please don't forget that.

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