Did this drive anyone else crazy (the world not understanding MZ/DZ twinning)? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-13-2008, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
LoisLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Once again, on the road
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So I read this story in our local paper today about a family who just had triplets.

"Little Patrick weighed five pounds 11 ounces, Martin weighed five pound 12 ounces and Steve tipped the scales at five pounds, 13 ounces. They are naturally occurring triplets and one of the babies is fraternal. The other two shared a placenta but they don’t yet know if they’re identical."

Yay for such good weights. But BOOOOOO for completely getting it all wrong on being fraternal/identical (and BOOOOOO for the use of "naturally occuring triplets"... as opposed to what? Unnaturally occurring? Do they mean spontaneous?).

How could twins share a placenta and NOT be MZ? And even if the other boy had his own placenta, couldn't he be MZ as well? Why do they even write this if they don't know (and a disclaimer -- I used to be a newspaper reporter, so I am probably even more sympathetic than I should be).

People just get it wrong ALL THE TIME and I don't know how to educate them.

OK. Stepping off the little soapbox for the day. Just want to rant a bit to people who would understand...
LoisLane is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-13-2008, 06:55 AM
 
~bookcase~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the middle of sweet chaos.
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I still sometimes get confused

joy.gifspread a lot of love joy.gif

~bookcase~ is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 12:45 PM
 
DoomaYula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think most people who don't have twins haven't a CLUE.

Otherwise, why would those who have boy/girl twins get asked all the time, "Are they identical?"


treehugger.gif Erika
mom of twins.gif (8)  blahblah.gif(5) thumbsuck.gif (3) and baby.gif born at home on Christmas day! 
DoomaYula is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 12:53 PM
 
earthmama369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Off topic, but I think by "naturally occurring," they're trying to convey that there were no fertility treatments involved in the conception.
earthmama369 is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 01:15 PM
 
Quindin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomaYula View Post

Otherwise, why would those who have boy/girl twins get asked all the time, "Are they identical?"
For real, people ask that??
Quindin is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 01:30 PM
 
mama_tigress's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The thing is, it was probably the parents who told them that. So I wouldn't blame reporters in a local newspaper for not checking out facts like that, because why would the parents be wrong? It's possible their doctors even told them that. Identical triplets are rare but not *that* rare; if I were that mother I would for sure get testing to find out for sure!

On another note, those are good weights for triplets!
mama_tigress is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 01:46 PM
 
Intertwined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In the midst of Twinsanity
Posts: 2,989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quindin View Post
For real, people ask that??
All. The. Stinkin. Time.
Intertwined is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 01:58 PM
 
skybluepink02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intertwined View Post
All. The. Stinkin. Time.
I tell people I'm having a boy and a girl and I get the "identical" question as well.

Welcoming our twins :: born February 21, 2009 at 33 weeks! :
C-section due to pre-eclampsia and HELLP:
skybluepink02 is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 02:43 PM
 
Novella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rural Canada - peaceful prairie
Posts: 1,140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoisLane View Post
So I read this story in our local paper today about a family who just had triplets.

"Little Patrick weighed five pounds 11 ounces, Martin weighed five pound 12 ounces and Steve tipped the scales at five pounds, 13 ounces. They are naturally occurring triplets and one of the babies is fraternal. The other two shared a placenta but they don’t yet know if they’re identical."

Yay for such good weights. But BOOOOOO for completely getting it all wrong on being fraternal/identical (and BOOOOOO for the use of "naturally occuring triplets"... as opposed to what? Unnaturally occurring? Do they mean spontaneous?).

How could twins share a placenta and NOT be MZ? And even if the other boy had his own placenta, couldn't he be MZ as well? Why do they even write this if they don't know (and a disclaimer -- I used to be a newspaper reporter, so I am probably even more sympathetic than I should be).

People just get it wrong ALL THE TIME and I don't know how to educate them.

OK. Stepping off the little soapbox for the day. Just want to rant a bit to people who would understand...
Yes, sometimes this stuff drives me batty. And then I calm myself down and think, "Why WOULD they know?"

The one that grinds on me even if someone has no "twins experience" is the identical boy/girl twins. Yeesh! :

It continues to annoy me when the mis-informed person is advising me in an authoritative manner (usually when I'm there with the babies in-tow, so it's evident I might not be completely green on the topic). That feels a lot different than a simple unknowledgable comment about twins in that person's extended family, or what-have-you.

This particular situation would bother me because I would expect that the reporter fact-check. It's extremely easy information to verify. Even the most junior of journalists gets lectured repeatedly about the importance of double-checking spellings and even the most mundane statements.

Did you write a letter?

Six kids, sixth sense, six degrees of separation. . . from sanity!
Not sure that I'm crunchy, but definitely a "tough chew".
Novella is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 03:39 PM
 
pers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
It is rare, and probably not the case here (especially since they were concieved naturally), but fraternal twins can share a placenta. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077080/.
pers is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 11:27 PM
 
OGirlieMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthmama369 View Post
Off topic, but I think by "naturally occurring," they're trying to convey that there were no fertility treatments involved in the conception.
Well, yes, but a lot of people who have gone through ART find that phrase off-putting. I prefer to say my twins were "spontaneously" conceived, rather than "naturally" - it's more accurate anyway, I think.

Betsy, mama to beautiful, strong MZ twins Lillian and Kate, born 11 weeks early on January 10, 2006.
OGirlieMama is offline  
Old 12-13-2008, 11:30 PM
 
OGirlieMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, and to the OP - yes, it would bug me in that situation, because the reporter should've done some fact-checking. It doesn't generally bug me when people are ignorant of twin zygosity stuff. OK, the b/g "are they identical" thing bugs me, because that's just stupid. But I cannot tell you how many people I've met who don't have twins but think that identical twins have to be in the same sac and if they weren't, they are fraternal. If I were offended by that, I'd be offended all day long. And if I think back to life before twins, I wouldn't have known anything about di-di MZ twins either, so I give people a pass on that one.

Betsy, mama to beautiful, strong MZ twins Lillian and Kate, born 11 weeks early on January 10, 2006.
OGirlieMama is offline  
Old 12-14-2008, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
LoisLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Once again, on the road
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, the big part that bugged me is the fact that the reporter should have checked the facts. When "facts" like this are printed, then readers will believe it MUST be true, since it was in the paper, which leads to ongoing misunderstanding about twins/multiples.

"Regular" people not understanding twinning -- I can handle that better (although I don't like the phrase "naturally occurring"). I might roll my eyes after the fact (esp. if someone mentions identical boy/girl twins), but yeah, before twins, I didn't have a clue either. But ... back in the day, if I was writing a story about twins (or triplets), I would have checked it out.

Haven't written a letter yet -- I am not sure if that's a soapbox I want/need to get on, or if just venting to mamas who understand does the trick

Thanks for listening.
LoisLane is offline  
Old 12-14-2008, 05:32 AM
2xy
 
2xy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,056
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know this is extreme, but I found it interesting.

Quote:
Everyone knows boys and girls have different parts and are therefore clearly not identical, right? Not quite. Girls have XX chromosomes and boys have XY chromosomes. The egg cell is always an X, and the sperm cell is either an X or a Y. If the Y chromosome is lost during the early stages of development, the child is born as a female with something called Turner Syndrome. Girls with Turner Syndrome are generally short, can't have children, and may have weak spatial skills. Although they are XO and not XX, they're still girls, and those with brothers who arose from the same egg do have the identical genetic material.
The Strange Truth About Twins
2xy is offline  
Old 12-14-2008, 04:20 PM
 
mamaeliz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Okay, the defender of the ignorant is here to stand up for all of us ignorant identical twin comments we make
18 months before my twins arrived, my friend had boy/girl twins who looked a lot alike (especially all swaddled and bald). I asked her if she was sure they weren't identical, and she would say something sarcastically like, "Norman does have a penis". But I never "got" it. I blame it all on the fact that I went to a lot of Catholic school, and maybe things have changed, but back in the day, talking about "one egg" or otherwise wouldn't have flown far. We got rid of science class in about 6th grade after someone broke a beaker, so....... then I was catapulted into high school in my sophomore year, and was so just trying to keep my head above water on a lot of levels, that I missed the twin lesson. And quite frankly, I never thought to think of it. I seriously had a hard time with the fact that I had a friend who was a twin, and his twin brother looked nothing like him, but he had another brother who looked identical to him. I also had a hard time with the fact that the "tiny" twin of my big friend was the older of the two. Just the stuff that I don't take the time to think about. So, there it is..... I'm outing myself here!!!!
mamaeliz is offline  
Old 12-15-2008, 10:05 PM
 
herdingkittens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 206
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My husband and I watched "In the Womb - Multiples" a doc by National Geographic when we were pregnant with our boys and they mentioned the, albeit rare but, possibility of MZ by/girl twins. It had something to do with them starting out as the same sex but having extra chromosomes and them canceling out differently in each.

Not sure of anything more than that....operating on few brain cells, but I KNOW we heard it, because we both heard it!

Anybody see that and hear that?

mother to girl (8), boy (7), girl (5) and twin boys (12/07) and a little boy due Feb 5!!
herdingkittens is offline  
Old 12-16-2008, 12:13 AM
 
angie7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is very rare for b/g twins to be ID but it can happen. The girl is born with birth defects such as Turner's Syndrome.

I believe by the "natural occuring" was to state they were not using any fertility treatments. My twins were "naturally occuring" or "conceived naturally". I refuse to use the word spontanous when referring to my twins.

single mommy to identical twin girls (3/06) Non-traditional mama just : through life.
angie7 is offline  
Old 12-16-2008, 02:29 PM
 
elephantine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It bothers me more when people who actually have twins think that DZ twins coming from "the mother's side" means that somehow all the male ancestry does not count in the twinning genetics. It's like they read that somewhere and never thought about the logic... that the fraternal twinning "gene" is for hyperovulation -- therefore the actual father of any given set of twins can't take genetic credit for multiples -- "coming from the mother's side" means the genetics(including all male ancestry!) of the actual mother of that particular set of twins in question!! argh... don't know why this has become my pet peeve.
elephantine is offline  
Old 12-16-2008, 02:40 PM
 
mamamolly1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Angie: just curious: why don't you like the word "spontaneous" in this context? It doesn't have a negative connotation, I don't think?
mamamolly1 is offline  
Old 12-16-2008, 02:44 PM
 
cjcolorado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CO
Posts: 879
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
General misunderstanding of twinning doesn't bother me as much as people who are both ignorant on the subject and persistent--such as repeatedly assuring me (with my MZ twins and no family history of twinning), "you know twins skip a generation, right? So prepare your grandkids for them!"

Cindi, mama to Hannah (7/04) :, Eli & Sam (6/06) :
cjcolorado is offline  
Old 12-16-2008, 07:44 PM
 
MaryJaneLouise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toddler Heater Blanket
Posts: 3,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
At least they weren't paternal twins

Twin boys 04/2005 : Support breastfeeding rights at FirstRight.Org : warrior
Face the rear for MORE than a year! Toddlers' necks are safest in a rear facing carseat
MaryJaneLouise is offline  
Old 12-16-2008, 09:34 PM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 4,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It used to really bug me for some reason, but now I really don't care unless I'm feeling particularly persnickety or I'm PMSing. So I blame hormones. Yep.

Really, unless someone is a twin or has them, why SHOULD they care to know? I know a lot more down about genetics, TTTS, mosaic trisomies, the potential effects of high doses of IV antibiotics in newborns, ect. that frankly I ever wanted to.

But the article would annoy me more than some schmuck on the street. If you're a journalist, for cripe's sake, at least BOTHER to do a little research (even on google) and get some basic facts down.

If it was a doctor that told them even after the baby's born and the placenta's been examined and they STILL don't know if it was fused or shared or whatever, then...blah.
Tigerchild is offline  
Old 12-17-2008, 01:48 AM
 
angie7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Angie: just curious: why don't you like the word "spontaneous" in this context? It doesn't have a negative connotation, I don't think?
To me it sounds as if they were "accidents", "not planned", etc. Not that there is anything wrong with surprise babies, I've been pregnant twice with surprise babies, but lost both of them Just a pet peeve of mine really. I don't think the term itself is offensive when others use it, I just don't like to "label" my kids with that term is all.

single mommy to identical twin girls (3/06) Non-traditional mama just : through life.
angie7 is offline  
Old 12-17-2008, 02:13 PM
 
mamamolly1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, okay, Angie. I was just curious. The reason spontaneous sounds right to me is that while having a baby was planned, presumably the twin part was spontaneous/a surprise. I also tend to like that phrase because the "natural" distinction-- while not inaccurate-- does tend to validate the ART-babies are "artificial" meme, about which I myself am somewhat defensive ;-)
mamamolly1 is offline  
Old 12-17-2008, 02:46 PM
 
Spring Lily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
I believe by the "natural occuring" was to state they were not using any fertility treatments. My twins were "naturally occuring" or "conceived naturally". I refuse to use the word spontanous when referring to my twins.
I understand how you're thinking, but it doesn't seem like you're taking into account the other side of it. If you make the distinction that your twins are "natural," then it means the opposite would be "unnatural" twins. And that's completely inaccurate and frankly offensive to many families.

My twins are also natural, we just had some help from fertility treatments to get the chance to conceive them.
Spring Lily is offline  
Old 12-17-2008, 08:04 PM
 
angie7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Lily View Post
I understand how you're thinking, but it doesn't seem like you're taking into account the other side of it. If you make the distinction that your twins are "natural," then it means the opposite would be "unnatural" twins. And that's completely inaccurate and frankly offensive to many families.

My twins are also natural, we just had some help from fertility treatments to get the chance to conceive them.
I never call my twins "natural", I say they were "conceived naturally".

single mommy to identical twin girls (3/06) Non-traditional mama just : through life.
angie7 is offline  
Old 12-18-2008, 10:08 PM
 
Spring Lily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think you're missing the point. The problem is with the word "natural" being offensive to people who had to use any kind of medical intervention to have their babies.

It's kind of besides the point, but "conceived naturally" isn't the same as spontaneous twins. There are a lot of ways to medically boost fertility where conception still happens on its own in your body, like with ovulation medications and/or insemination. IVF is when conception happens outside of the body. I didn't do IVF, so doesn't that mean I can still say mine are "conceived naturally" even though I had medical assistance?
Spring Lily is offline  
Old 12-18-2008, 11:17 PM
 
angie7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Lily View Post
I think you're missing the point. The problem is with the word "natural" being offensive to people who had to use any kind of medical intervention to have their babies.

It's kind of besides the point, but "conceived naturally" isn't the same as spontaneous twins. There are a lot of ways to medically boost fertility where conception still happens on its own in your body, like with ovulation medications and/or insemination. IVF is when conception happens outside of the body. I didn't do IVF, so doesn't that mean I can still say mine are "conceived naturally" even though I had medical assistance?
The term "conceived natural" means that sex conceived a baby with no fertility help at all. I'm really not going to get into a pissing contest over this. I find the word spontaneous offensive when referring to my twins. If others chose to use this term with their twins, good for them, I do not wish to label my twins with it. That is my choice and my right to do so.

single mommy to identical twin girls (3/06) Non-traditional mama just : through life.
angie7 is offline  
Old 12-18-2008, 11:38 PM
 
fyrebloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North of Boston, South of sanity
Posts: 1,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Agreed agreed. If you're going to publish something for crying out loud look it up. Google, it's a good thing, use it!

As for the old wives tales about twinning, I swear I feel like a HS science teacher whenever I'm out. I'm too nice to use any of my canned smart alec remarks so I end up giving the quick and dirty synopsis of how "identical" twins occur and why they don't run in families blah blah blah. I don't use spontanious (not offended by it though) but I just say they "just happen" no rhyme of reason that we know of but there are theories about BFIng at time of conception and conception after a miscarriage.

I keep waiting for someone to tell me something true that I DON'T know about twins, because everyone on the street seems to think they know more then the twin mama does .

OH and Mine are so identical, but people still think they're a boy and a girl... I've gotten into arguments over it. People are really ignorant sometimes :

Lucia , Poly )O( Lactation Counseling mama lady.gifvbac.gifto 5 yo Goobersuperhero.gif and 3 1/2 yo MZ twins twins.gif Peanut and Sweetpea and 1yo Pumpkinbabyf.gif mmm placenta.gif
fyrebloom is offline  
Old 12-19-2008, 12:21 PM
 
OGirlieMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by angie7 View Post
The term "conceived natural" means that sex conceived a baby with no fertility help at all. I'm really not going to get into a pissing contest over this. I find the word spontaneous offensive when referring to my twins. If others chose to use this term with their twins, good for them, I do not wish to label my twins with it. That is my choice and my right to do so.
The term "spontaneous" means "happening without apparent external cause." It doesn't mean "accidental" or "unplanned" (as if anything would be wrong with that, either?) You are free to feel extra-natural because you didn't have any external cause to have twins, but all that does is make your twins "spontaneous."

And it's really disappointing to see someone continue to use the term "natural" in a way that has clearly been determined to be divisive on this forum. Go ahead and call your twins all-natural out there in the world, but when mamas here have already told you it makes them feel bad, why would you continue to argue that point?

Betsy, mama to beautiful, strong MZ twins Lillian and Kate, born 11 weeks early on January 10, 2006.
OGirlieMama is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off