RANT - I'm crushed with inability to satisfy with breastmilk - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-01-2005, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Let me just tell you that it's now 2pm and I've been up since 1:30am. I have twin nurslings whom I breastfeed at least 10-12 times per day, as much as humanly possibly. From the start there have been weight gain issues and weak sucks. I have TRIED TRIED so hard to do everything I can and I finally after 4 months thought I could slowly wean off the formula supplements and thought everything was hunky dory and come to find out they each LOST a few ounces during the last 2 weeks. It 's so upsetting I just need to rant. My husband is furious with me for even cutting back on formula. We were at 8 oz and I went down to 3 cutting back an ounce every 4 days.

I have tried 3 different kinds of pumps and have not been able to pump A DROP, including the highpowered double pump. I have seen lactation consultants, doulas, midwives, la leche leaders (I am just about to become one myself!!). I take blessed thistle, super foods, a gallon of water, yadda yadda.

I just cannot believe that someone with my health cannot feed 2 babies. It really hurts. I nurse those babies all the time and I also have a 3 year old to take care of. I actually sort of gave up today and fed them homemade oat porridge and they took to it really well. But they are only 4 1/2 months!

I just don't know what else to do. Everyone says, you need more rest! HA! I am co-sleeping with nurslings and maybe getting 3-5 hours of broken up sleep. I'm normally a happy positive person but I have just had it and I've been crying all day.

Even my breastfeeding friends say things like, "just pump!" and I feel like some are even scornful of the fact that I am feeding them formula at all.

I'm just miserable today - sorry you had to listen to all this.

Actually the twins are in terrific health other than the slow weight gain. They are happy and have been happier (less gassy) since I've lowered the formula amount. Developmentally they are doing great and very active and strong. They started out at 7.5 and 8.2. Today they were 10.6 and 11.7. I want so badly to breastfeed exclusively but it just isn't happening.

I've even had DHS come knocking because I wasn't supplementing at 3 weeks - I needed that like I needed another hole in my head. The pressure to breastfeed successfully is getting to be to much for me.

Please kind words.

Thanks, Mary
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Old 08-01-2005, 04:16 PM
 
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Just want to tell you that you're a super mama. I assume you've tried oatmeal? It made a big difference to me.

Thinking happy milky-easy nursing thoughts for you.

take care of yourself.

-Angela
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Old 08-01-2005, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I tried oatmeal for the first timet today. At what age to you feed it to yours and what did you use, water, bm? How soon did you see a difference?

thanks, Mary
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Old 08-01-2005, 04:33 PM
 
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I have heard if you eat oatmeal, it is supposed to help boost your milk supply.
Sending warm and encouraging thoughts your way.
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Old 08-01-2005, 04:34 PM
 
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Mary,
Know that you are an amazing woman and a great mother and that what you ARE giving them, breastmilk-wise, is a great accomplishment. It is not a failure on your part, it really isn't. Please don't be too hard on yourself.

In the past, I have had success with the mother's milk tea (yogi brand or the natural medicinals) and also with Fenugreek in pill form. You have to take it until your underarm sweat smells like maple syrup. It's awful!

Also, my son was exclusively breastfed for 6 mos and didn't show any interest in food...I expected my girls, who were preemies, to go at LEAST that long. But they were interested at about 4.5 months, and it actually worked out quite well for us.

My smaller twin does still have growth issues at a year and a half - they are identical and had TTTS - and we supplement her with pediasure, which I think is gross, but has helped build up her fat stores, and also with DuoCal, which is a powder you can put in their food to add calories. We got it by prescription, but you can get it on ebay and a couple other places as well.

You're doing the absolute best you can, mama. Good job.

xo
kathy
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Old 08-01-2005, 04:38 PM
 
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Wildcrafter - I think she meant eating oatmeal for *you* - to increase your milk supply. Not for the baby, although for us, oatmeal is a big hit with all 3 of my kids.
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Old 08-01-2005, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Angela - I guess that was a big DUH! I thought you meant feeding the twins oatmeal! Thanks for your kind words.

Kathy, will you talk to me about starting solids with them? What foods, how much etc.

I also exclusively bf my 1st beyond 6months so I'm at a loss here.
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Old 08-01-2005, 04:50 PM
 
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Yeah, oatmeal for you Can't imagine why you'd get mixed up in your sleep-deprived state.... Oatmeal for you. Was quite impressive on the supply for me.



-Angela
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Old 08-01-2005, 04:58 PM
 
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Wildcrafter, I'm cracking up at your signature!

Have you heard of domperidone? It really makes an enormous difference for a lot of mothers struggling with low supply for just one baby. It could help. It literally tripled my milk volume almost overnight.

Domperidone information on kellymom.com

It is not available in the US because the manufacturer (in Belgium, I think) has never submitted it to the FDA. However, it is approved for sale in many other countries (UK, Canada, most of Europe, etc.) and is even an over-the-counter medication in some places. It is legal to import it for personal use and many US moms order it from Global Drug in New Zealand. I've ordered from there twice with no problems. It takes about 7-10 days to arrive in the US.

Good luck!
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Old 08-01-2005, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Mamas. I really needed your feedback today! You'd think with all three kids sleeping I'D be sleeping but I was too upset. So here I sit.

I did have oatmeal today, we eat it a few times a week. I'll step that up and check into that drug on Kellymom. And I'm getting some fenugreek. I thought blessed thistle was the way to go but I keep hearing more about fenugreek so I'll try.

I've had my good cry and feel better, just nursed my 2 little nurslings back to sleep - they are so precious and it just was breaking my heart that I couldn't feed them what they need. Dammit I carried 16 pounds of baby to full term and can't give them enough milk? It just kills me.

Mary
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Old 08-01-2005, 05:43 PM
 
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Eat a big bowl of oatmeal every day. Two if you can manage it. Drink more water than you think possible. Try some mother's milk tea. Get the fenugreek. I'm thinking that with a few of those in play it should up your supply significantly.

I was AMAZED at the difference oatmeal made- and I hate the stuff so I didn't even eat that much.



-Angela
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Old 08-01-2005, 05:46 PM
 
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Have you thought of supplementing with a lact-aid? I never had a full supply because of a breast reduction and I found the fact that she was 100% fed at the breast even though it wasn't all breastmilk made me feel so much better. In regards to galactogogues try a combination of 9-12 fenugreek a day, 9-12 blessed thistle a day and 9-12 marshmallow root a day. I know that sounds like alot but I tried them all separately and different combinations and that was the one that produced the best results. Also sleep deprivation can really, really affect supply so is there any way you could get some help with the kids, maybe hire a mother's helper to come in the afternoons so you can take a nap? Good luck to you and keep up the good work!

Shawna, married to Michael, mommy to Elijah 1/18/01, Olivia 11/9/02, and Eliana 1/22/06
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Old 08-01-2005, 05:46 PM
 
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I hear lots of moms have success with the drug pp mentioned. You're doing a fantastic job. I seriously don't know how moms of multiples do it. Anyone who even survives that gets a hat's off from me! :LOL Your siggy IS fantastic. I have to go search out your birth story now......
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Old 08-01-2005, 06:10 PM
 
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I hear lots of moms have success with the drug pp mentioned. You're doing a fantastic job. I seriously don't know how moms of multiples do it. Anyone who even survives that gets a hat's off from me! :LOL Your siggy IS fantastic. I have to go search out your birth story now......
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Old 08-01-2005, 06:30 PM
 
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I just wanted to say you are doing a fantastic job with what you are able to provide your twins! I wasn't able to bf my twins because they were 13 weeks early and I didn't have any milk. I even tried a med to get it to come in, but no luck. When I bf my littlest one, he wasn't a good nurser (he was lazy) and so I had to supplement with him. Even when I pumped, I didn't get a lot.

You are amazing for being able to nurse them both! I envy you because I wish I had been able to nurse the twins!
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Old 08-01-2005, 08:01 PM
 
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I don't have any advice, since my twins aren't arriving until Feb, but I just wanted to offer my support and awe at you mothers of multiples that BF. I hope that I can do it, and really, a to you!!!!!
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Old 08-01-2005, 11:52 PM
 
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wildcrafter

Twins are hard. Breastfeeding twins can be VERY hard. You are to be absolutely commended for doing the best you can for your babies.

My advice is to check out what Jack Newman has to say and then get in touch with him. He will answer emails or you can phone his clinic at Sick Kids in Toronto (i'll see if I can find a number for you). His bedside manner is not always the greatest but he knows an awful lot about breastfeeding.
http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/newman.shtml

We had a terrible start nursing - one of my twins didn't latch for 2 months, we had VERY slow weight gain, recurrent thrush etc. I had a 3 y/o at the time as well. The hardest part for me was trying to manage to take care of me in the midst of the craziness. If you can try taking them to bed with you, have someone wait on you for no less than 24 - 48 hours, cook you healthy foods, drink lots of water (and maybe a beer :LOL ) sleep, take your fenugreek/blessed thistle combo. You probably do need rest!

When my milk supply crashed at about 3 weeks my wonderful LC who was a mother of twins herself gave me 'permission' to ff for 24 hours straight - actually to get someone else to do it while I slept. At this stage your need for sleep in order to stay healthy and sane trumps bfing for at least 24 hours. The big picture on this is a bit more formula in a determined plan vs wearing yourself out completely and/or giving up. Really - as committed as I am to nursing (and my 4 y/os are still nursing as is my 2 y/o) you sound like you need a real break, some rest and to be taken care of for a day or two -

Hang in there! Let us know how it is going!
Karen

Blessed partner to a great guy, and mama to 4 amazing kids. Unfortunate target of an irrationally angry IRL stalker.

Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. ~ Buddha

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Old 08-02-2005, 01:23 AM
 
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First of all -((((HUGGS))))) to you

Secondly, I found that 6 tabs of Brewers yeast + 2 Fenugreek 3 times a day really helped my supply.

HTH!
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Old 08-02-2005, 01:26 PM
 
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Here's the link at Kellymom.com on Fenugreek. You can find the dosage you'll need there.

http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/milks...fenugreek.html

Karen - Mama to Haven (9/00) , Lillie & Faith (MZ - 12/02) and my first homebirthed baby, Willa (3/08)
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Old 08-02-2005, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow! You moms are great, thank you for all the help.

Things are looking better today. I've devised a plan. Going back to 4 oz formula/day with the nursing supplementers and a little oatmeal cereal for each as well. I tried it twice yesterday and they both really took to it even though in my mind and heart they are too young I feel I need to honor thier hunger right now. My neighbor is going to pick up some fenugreek and nut. yeast and I'll continue the fenugreek and oatmeal. I'll check back with my results.

Thanks again, Mary

oh yeah, I justhad a nap!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-02-2005, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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fyi, haven't done my birth story yet......but I will some time.
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Old 08-02-2005, 06:34 PM
 
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Have you heard of "More Milk" tinctures?
http://www.motherlove.com/products_extracts.php

Some people swear by them.

(Not a twin mom, just popping in to offer a suggestion. )

You sound like you're doing a great job, mama.....my hat's really off to you twin mommies.
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Old 08-02-2005, 11:51 PM
 
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I'm so glad you have gotten some help here and have gotten a plan together that feels right.

I could have written your original post about 9 months ago, in fact if you hadn't mentioned having a three year old also I would have done a double take. :LOL My rage and grief over having to supplement were boundless. I have felt nothing like it, though the intensity of the rage/grief of infertility were similar, nothing matches the feeling of not being able to sustain your own children. I found that my LLL leader application process helped me get a lot of that out of my system, my application is correspondingly l-o-n-g.

I would wholeheartedly second getting your hands on any information from Dr. Jack Newman that you can. He was a sane voice in a world of nonsense advice for me. His book is awesome, buy it directly from amazon.ca (not .com). His pages of information on www.breastfeedingonline are unparalleled. His personal replies at [email protected] are helpful, timely, and down to earth. He doesn't mince words but gives the real scoop.

Here's what I found after many months of research, lots of desperate weeping, and profound rage:
1. Oatmeal did absolutely nothing. I ate pailfuls. I hate it and I still did it. Nothing.

2. Fenugreek is not for anyone with blood sugar or blood pressure issues. Be cautious.

3. Domperidone is illegal in the U.S. as of February 2005. This is an outrage, and I wholeheartedly support any mom who chooses to purchase it and use it. Again, see Dr. Newman for info.

4. More on domperidone. It is unlikely to do much at this point. I was at the same supplementation level as you at the same age as your little ones when I wrote Dr. Newman. There was not much hope for real substantive change in my supply from domperidone at that point. Write him to get the latest, however.

5. Rest: Ha!!!!!!! Although the pps advice about giving yourself 24 hours off if needed sounds GREAT! Wish I had heard that one, wow!

6. Solids: oatmeal, rice cereal, etc: not enough calories. Try mashed bananas, mashed avocados, mashed sweet potatoes. Mix with some of the dratted formula to soften. If they don't push it back out they are probably OK to continue. Remember that breastmilk and formula have more calories per ounce than most solids, so add high calorie foods first, and mix with formula. This will lessen somewhat the amount of formula you have to put in the supplementers.

7. If the supplementers work for you, keep it up! That's a great solution for those it works for, keep it in the act!

8. Angry DH: he'll get over it. Mine did. Truly.

Now a voice from the other side. Alicia dropped her final supplement bottle at 9 months, Annika at 10 months. The girls are now 22 months and still nursing with dedication and devotion - frequently not to say incessantly. I got through my LLL application process!! There has not been a bottle in the house in 9 months. I have forgotten the horror, though the rage and pain do return occasionally in memory they are just that - a memory.

You can do it! You can hold on, you can stick it out, you can beat the formula! Breastfeeding will win, it really will! You're doing much better than you know and you will reap such great rewards as time goes on. Hang in there mama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-03-2005, 11:07 AM
 
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Nursing twins is REALLY, REALLY hard and you are doing an amazing job. Just because a person supplements or begins solids early (and it sounds like your babes handled that just fine!), does not mean that you are not doing a truly great thing by continuing to bf your babies. Remember, you are doing something that most "mortal" women would not even think of attempting Just because you are having challenges now, does not mean that your little ones won't become great, satisfied little nursers.

I also found that addressing my post-partum depression issues helped a great deal with my ability to sleep (that is, to sleep when I had the chance), and therefore, my ability to feed my babies.

Hang in there and keep doing whatever works for you and your babies.
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Old 08-03-2005, 03:17 PM
 
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Mama - I just wanted to send hugs and support your way!!

Sounds like you already got tons of great advice from others here. Way to go for sticking with it!! You are a strong and loving mommy!!
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Old 08-03-2005, 03:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyY
3. Domperidone is illegal in the U.S. as of February 2005. This is an outrage, and I wholeheartedly support any mom who chooses to purchase it and use it. Again, see Dr. Newman for info.
Do you have more information about this? I know that the FDA put out an advisory about domperidone in June 2004 but my understanding was that it is still legal for anyone to order prescription drugs for personal use from other countries.

As for whether domperidone would help at a particular point or not, it seems every woman's experience is different but it certainly helps MOST mothers far more than any of the supplements/oatmeal/drinking water.
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Old 08-04-2005, 05:26 AM
 
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Ya know you may be right about it still being legal to order! Hmm let me do a search and see what I can find out - I lost a lot of my info in a recent computer crash so don't have handy the source I thought I had. I'll be back!

I agree totally about domperidone working better than anything else too! Even after Dr. Newman told me it probably wouldn't help in my specific case I still asked my doc if she'd prescribe it for me (at that time it was fine to do that) :LOL She declined on the grounds that I had so many health problems at the time that adding yet another medication was not a good idea, sigh...

Just underlining again the point that domperidone is the go-to medication for even the most challenging of supply issues. Thanks Wednesday
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Old 08-07-2005, 10:26 PM
 
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Yeehaw Amy!

I am printing that post out, got a singleton very young mama I am mentoring who is very discouraged and was told by docs to stop - so that helps a great deal.

I feel useless posting, as everything has been said but...for us it was the same, very slow growth, milk supply questions, but it all worked out.
Our formulae was:

Fenugreek 3caps/3x/day
Mother's Milk tea, as iced tea was my fave
Blessed Thistle tincture, usually placed in tea mentioned above
Pumping after every feeding for 10 minutes on both sides
Massaging the milk down, Dh liked to help with this...lol
Using a Camelbak water pouch on my back while stuck on nursing pillow for hours

unsure if that helps, but it worked for us, especially getting the supply back after the NICU nightmare We managed to listen to me cry thru two weeks of getting Quinn back to the breast only.

Much peace and mucho milk to you, you are doing a great job by working so hard and asking for help

Maya
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Old 08-07-2005, 10:28 PM
 
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I forgot the down under nursing position, which allowed me to sleep and my milk to increase - laying down with babies propped up on each breast - lotsa pillows under each arm.
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Old 08-12-2005, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks again for all your responses. I never would've believed that one could so positively affect their milk suply - if I hadn't experienced it myself!!!! I mean, WOW!!!!

I can squirt milk across the room now, AFTER the twins are satiated! What a feeling.

Here's what I've done the last 2 weeks (and will continue):
-REST I'm lying down a few times a day sometimes with all 3 kids on bed but it's still restful
-FENUGREEK Boy do I smell funny! I make 2 infusions per day(1 teaspoon each) and then eat the sprouted seeds during the day.
-WATER Now up to 1 and a half gallons a day - I really needed more with the hot weather
-OATMEAL or barley every day, one bowl
I had to scrap the nut. yeast-it was causing my eczema to come out

And you know what ? Both babes are sleeping better thus I'm getting more sleep at night, last night I got 4 hours in a row!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys really helped me out, I was so weary from it all I couldn't see straight, thanks so much.

Mary
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