My freind just had twins but is this normal? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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she just emailed me saying she has a multiples expert living with her who has the babies on schedule so they eat AT the EXACT same time everyday. Is this normal? The expert is there for 3 weeks...the babies are brand new...july 6th they were born.

I forgot to say the expert is doing everythign and then in week 2 she teahces the parents in week 3 they do it on their own with her guidance...this sounds so dangerous to me but I don't know anything about twins. I do know that babies aren't supposed to be on a schedule so twins can't be that different but maybe somoene can shed a positive light on this..I am really nervous.

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#2 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 11:52 AM
 
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Sounds fishy and babywise to me. Is she breastfeeding? If so she's dooming her supply if she does that and risking hurting the babies. I'd send out some serious warning messages about this "expert".

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#3 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She really wants to nurse and beofre the babies were born she asked me tons of questions...she is very open to suggestions. (I helped convince her not to circ so she isn't hard headed)
She is pumping and said the babies had some formula in the hospital b/c her milk didn't come in for 3 days...I so want to tell her that was totally normal (you know in a freindly kind of...well that is how it works kind of way. ) Now she is being told they are too little to suck so she pumping and giving them bottles.

I sooo want to call her and say FIRE this woman...but i am afarad of; well you don;t have twins..so you don't understand.

Maybe I should tell her to call LLLI maybe they could help her that way...and get thjose babes off teh schedule?

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#4 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 01:14 PM
 
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Wow, that sounds VERY weird. Multiples expert? I can see calling themselves a "scheduling" expert, but really when it comes down to it, you're just doing MORE bfing, diapering, etc, with mults. I hope when she talks about feeding them at the exact same time, that means she's just waking the other one up to breastfeed.

I'd get more info.

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#5 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 01:48 PM
 
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It sounds very weird.


I think maybe she was very scared of having two little ones and went overboard ordering the expert. I would encourage her to do it on her own and that she can do it.
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#6 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 02:12 PM
 
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We know people who did this too. They advised us to do it with our twins, but I have NO interest in this kind of parenting. The couple who used the 'expert' stopped breastfeeding at about 3 mos. because the mom's supply dried up. No wonder...: They also advised separate cribs & CIO and bragged that their babes slept all night by 9 wks, albeit while parents wore ear plugs!!!:

Tell your friend to save her $, fire the 'expert', breastfeed on demand, practice at tandem nursing and babes will synchrinize as much as is healthy for them! It's important to have some one-on-one w/ each child too.
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#7 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I sent her an email saying that maybe I was misunderstanding but I thibnk she should check this schedule with LLL or her ped (who is pretty NFL from what I understand. )
I think she just doesn't know what to do b/c she researched vax and decided against it (or very delayed)...she wants to carry her babes in a sling..she didn't circ..her heart is in the right place but I think these experts are undermining her.

she really wanted to breastfeed...she was going to adopt a couple years ago and was planing to induce lactation...i pumped for that baby b/c she wnted it to have breastmilk so badly. (The adoption fell through)

the babies are around 5 pounds...to me that just doesn't
sound too small to nurse. i think the bottles are effecting thier latch do you?

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#8 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 02:32 PM
 
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The babies might be able to latch. She definitely needs help from someone who has nursed little babies. It took my twins 3 months to latch on after having bottles in the NICU (latch issues and them expecting the milk to flow right out) and if she keeps listening to that "expert" then her milk will dry up and she won';t be able to nurse. The expert is no expert from the sounds of it. Her twins do NOT have to be on a schedule. I fed mine on demand and even though we were tired, we made it through and it wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Babies that little definitely shouldn't be left to CIO and alot of twins love sleeping together and do better that way. Please tell her to talk to someone other than that so called multiples expert. By the way, unless she has twins and has been there, she definitely can't say she is an expert. You can't have any idea unless you have been there.
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#9 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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Even some parents who've had twins aren't 'experts' they just know how they did it and some of them made terrible decisions. (IMHO)

5 lbs. doesn't necessarily indicate that they're too small to breastfeed. However, if her babes are actually having trouble latching she'll definitely need some help. LLL or a LC would be good. However, they need to be able to nurse on demand if she's going to develop a healthy supply and they're going to develop healthy latches.

Twins are demanding, but it doesn't have to be a bad thing. It's far easier to nurse on demand than to attempt to force babes to adhere to a schedule. No baby wants to be cajoled or forced into eating when s/he's not hungry and a hungry baby deserves to be fed!
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#10 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 03:02 PM
 
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Babies that young on a strict, same time a day schedule, poor things. Like you said, I think her heart is in the right place but this "expert" sounds like a little off her rocker. Why did she decide to get this "expert" anyways?

My girls were on a "schedule". It was their own schedule and we didnt go by the clock, just their cues. I didnt bf, actually I tried for 4 months and I dried up so I had to give it up (long story) All babies set their own schedule, when their belly growls, they want to eat, when they are sleepy they want to sleep. I just really wish people would listen to their babies own cues and not watch the clock for everything.

Hopefully after this expert leaves, the mama will listen to her instincts...

single mommy to identical twin girls (3/06) Non-traditional mama just : through life.
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#11 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 03:30 PM
 
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Totally bizarre! I'm trying to play Devil's Advocate, but I really can't see any good coming of an arrangement like that. . . apart from the possible confidence-booster when/if they fire her.

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#12 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 04:44 PM
 
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Is this "expert" Suzy Giordano?

She has a book called 12hrs sleep by 12wks and it sounds like all you mentioned. Apparently she has a few kids including a set of twin boys and she does housecalls where she will come and train your babies to eat at the same time and sleep on a strict schedule.
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#13 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 06:04 PM
 
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Can you call your friend & talk to her? I just think it would be a good idea to both offer her support & to get more of the story.

Here was our situation, somewhat similar to your friends but because of, I think, legitimate reasons.

My girls were born at 37-weeks. One was 6-1/2 lbs, one was 4-1/2 lbs. They got formula in the hospital because they developed jaundice & my milk was not in yet. They were less concerned about the bigger baby, but there was not a lot of wiggle room with the smaller baby -- she needed fluids and the bili lights. My bigger baby's jaundice resolved without treatment.

I had a PP doula who was a LC & she started coming to our house as soon as we came home. I was determined to get them off bottles and off formula & was able to get off formula by about 5 or 6 days post-partum and off bottles by about two weeks, if I remember right, but it was a huge struggle and I would not have been able to do it without support from an LC. It involved a lot of putting them to the breast, even if they didn't actually remove any milk. (We had a scale so there were times they would nurse, but not take milk in.) It was totally exhausting. We used finger feeding and an SNS, all with my milk, to get them off the bottles.

Although I had no interest in having them on a schedule, I had to in the beginning. Because they were early-ish and small and jaundiced, they were very sleepy & showed no feeding cues until about their 40-week due date. I had to feed them by the clock because there was no other way to feed them. What this looked like, though, was near constant feeding because it took *forever* to get them to take in even 2 oz of milk, either through the breast, bottle or finger feeding. SNS eventually went quicker.

So, I can hear echoes of your friend's situation in my own -- smallish babies who were not good at nursing who were FF by bottles in the hospital and were fed on a schedule. But this was not what I wanted & my LC was clear that I wanted to exclusively breastfeed my babies on -demand and that's what we were able to acheive.

If you want to share my story with your friend, feel free to do so. I hope she is able to feed her babies the way *she* wants to. It's hard when you're exhausted and someone authoritative tells you this is *the way* to do something.

SAHM to F & P, : fraternal twins born 3/05, : I, born 12/07 & at 5 weeks in July 2009
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#14 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 06:19 PM
 
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she just emailed me saying she has a multiples expert living with her who has the babies on schedule so they eat AT the EXACT same time everyday. Is this normal? The expert is there for 3 weeks...the babies are brand new...july 6th they were born.

I forgot to say the expert is doing everythign and then in week 2 she teahces the parents in week 3 they do it on their own with her guidance...this sounds so dangerous to me but I don't know anything about twins. I do know that babies aren't supposed to be on a schedule so twins can't be that different but maybe somoene can shed a positive light on this..I am really nervous.
I agree that it's dangerous. She needs to be breastfeeding as much as possible during this time especially.

Men love to be able to fix problems, and I suspect her husband thought this was a wonderful idea to hire someone who would make life easier for his wife (first by doing it, then by "teaching" them). He is probably not very informed on breastfeeding and its mechanics. I wasn't with my first, and I did a modified version of the Babywise thing with him (though even then, some things seemed crazy to me, so I let my baby dictate timing, attempting to stick to the order Babywise prescribed).

She needs to know that pumping usually cannot keep up with her babies' needs. Also, the longer they don't breastfeed, the harder the struggle will be to get them nursing at the breast (and the harder things will be in the long run).

Unfortunately, many people will tell you that you have to put twins on a schedule. I disagree profoundly. At times, things went better when my twins were together (usually morning/early afternoon); at other times, they worked better when feeding them separately (nighttime, afternoon/evening).

She doesn't need a multiples expert. She needs an expert on raising HER babies. Funny, I think that's what a mom is
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#15 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 06:31 PM
 
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Can you suggest she fire the "expert" and get a postpartum doula instead? That would be way more helpful.
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#16 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just read her email back to me and she says that everything she's read says put them on schedule...you can't feed multiples on demand, "you would lose your mind" she says, "IT's whole different ball game with twins"
I am so upset by this. and yet it's none of my buisness.

:
The expert is a nurse.
do you have ANY links to dispute this or should I really jsut butt out.

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#17 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 07:15 PM
 
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You are a good friend to be so concerned but at this point she clearly wants you to butt out. Le sigh. I feel sorry for the babies.

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#18 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 07:39 PM
 
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How sad. And uninformed, considering the # of us here raising twins without a schedule like that. Without really losing our minds. It kind of breaks my heart.

Wife of one and mom of five, including my HBAC twins!
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#19 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 08:35 PM
 
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Gosh -- It does sound like you kind of have to butt out now, doesn't it. You know, I fed my girls on demand, but what I did was if one girl wanted to eat, I offered nursing to the other as well. She could eat or not if she wanted. That way I was almost always tandem nursing & I don't think it was much more of a burden or difficult than nursing one would be once I got the hang of tandem nursing. It wasn't on a schedule.

Maybe things will be different for your friend when the fog of having one-week old twins clears and the "baby expert" leaves.

SAHM to F & P, : fraternal twins born 3/05, : I, born 12/07 & at 5 weeks in July 2009
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#20 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 08:37 PM
 
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Also, it's probably true that most things you read says have your babies on a schedule. The only thing I really read about nursing before hand was Mothering Multiples by Karen Gromada & I don't think she advocates nursing on a schedule. If you happen to live in the San Francisco area, I'd be happy to give you my copy for your to give to your friend, if she doesn't have it.

SAHM to F & P, : fraternal twins born 3/05, : I, born 12/07 & at 5 weeks in July 2009
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#21 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 09:12 PM
 
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I put my girls on a schedule but not until 3mos old. Up until that point I fed them on demand. I still do...i am reallly flexible with their schedule....Yea I did lose my mind but they are my babies and it was worth it.
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#22 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 09:40 PM
 
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I just read her email back to me and she says that everything she's read says put them on schedule...you can't feed multiples on demand, "you would lose your mind" she says, "IT's whole different ball game with twins"
I am so upset by this. and yet it's none of my buisness.

:
The expert is a nurse.
do you have ANY links to dispute this or should I really jsut butt out.
Well, plenty of us nurse twins on demand and haven't lost our minds yet. Though maybe we were loose a few screws to begin with? Seriously though, I think Michellyn is right, there are times when having them synchronized works well, and other times when it's really better to be able to deal with them separately.

Too bad that your friend is insistent. I feel terrible for her babes too. I'm going to hope that the wisdom of babes wins out and once the 'expert' leaves the babes will insist on their own schedule and your friend will just have to be flexible and adjust!
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#23 of 41 Old 07-13-2007, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Also, it's probably true that most things you read says have your babies on a schedule. The only thing I really read about nursing before hand was Mothering Multiples by Karen Gromada & I don't think she advocates nursing on a schedule. If you happen to live in the San Francisco area, I'd be happy to give you my copy for your to give to your friend, if she doesn't have it.
Thanks for the offer but we are in NJ.
It's a tough thing to let go b/c she has asked me so many questions and seemed to really like the way I parented.
It's like I was invited in to offer so many answers and now I have to move along. I will move along but I just feel sad.

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#24 of 41 Old 07-14-2007, 12:30 AM
 
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Why don't you tell her about this great forum you find with twin moms who take a more AP approach. And then ask a mod to delete this post.

Seriously.

Betsy, mama to beautiful, strong MZ twins Lillian and Kate, born 11 weeks early on January 10, 2006.
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#25 of 41 Old 07-14-2007, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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She has actually been here...not the twin forum but the no vax and the adoption forum.
hopefully she'll find her way back. I am afraid of getting too pushy simply b/c I don't have twins and she is thinking..."she doesn't know. she doesn't have twins" but in my heart I can't understand why something that is dangerous for a single birth is now a perfect remedy for a multiple."

Someone with twins who is very natural non vax and is still nursing her now 15 mos twins has offered up her email for any questions my friend might have.

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#26 of 41 Old 07-14-2007, 01:04 AM
 
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I feel bad for her and her babies. I've been told to tandem nurse on demand, even if it meant overfeeding one baby at first. When one nurses, put the other to the breast too. That seems like it wouldn't be too much extra work even if it's a little tough at first. The only thing differant about small babies is they can't open wide enough sometimes and they need to eat more frequently. I can't see how scheduling them when they are SOOO little and need to eat so often would help them to gain the weight they need or for her to keep her supply up.

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#27 of 41 Old 07-14-2007, 01:33 AM
 
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Why don't you tell her about this great forum you find with twin moms who take a more AP approach. And then ask a mod to delete this post.

Seriously.
:
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#28 of 41 Old 07-14-2007, 04:10 AM
 
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I have heard of this kind of thing where I live, there are special "baby nurses" that you can hire at night to do this. I *know* very few people who do it, because they're unbelievably expensive.

I guess I will go out on a little bit of a devil's advocate limb and say that I do understand her sentiment that demand feeding would "maker her lose her mind." I demand-fed my multiples, one of whom was teeny to me (he was under 5 lbs---my first baby had been 9 1/2 lbs!), and the other was a hefty 6 lbs (still small to me) but was on IV antibiotics at home for 6 weeks after he got out of the pICU for a staph infection he'd picked up at the hospital (nice, huh?). There were nights where I was up so often I just sat there and tried very hard not to sob because I was so damned tired and worn down. I kept telling DH over and over i couldn't do it. I did stick it out, but it was effing hard (on an emotional/fatigue level...I had no supply or latch issues with any of my kids), and I really do have empathy for people who feel like they might 'lose their mind', and admittedly feel a bit of anger towards the notion that we should poo-poo those feelings.

OTOH, she might just be parroting what "everyone" says. But the fact that she shut down a good friend so quickly leads me to lean towards the 'overwhlemed' status rather than the 'sheep' status.

I wouldn't talk about how she's going to ruin her babies. Not saying you'd use those words directly, but you know what I mean. I might encourage her towards practices to keep her supply up, because the night nurse is going to leave eventually, and approach things from that angle. But to be blunt, it is really hard to take advice and/or chastisement from non-multiple moms even if you know in you gut they have a point.

It might be better to approach things from a "hey these things worked for me to keep up milk supply" angle, but she seems to have given you somewhat of a bared-teeth message of back-the-heck-down. I don't know how close you are with her, if you are very close I'd just apologize and say that you feel like you've hit a nerve, you know that BFing was very important to her and that you're there as a resource and support if she needs it, that you'll be happy to help her get out of the house (if you are) to go to LLL meeting with you, ect.
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#29 of 41 Old 07-14-2007, 09:47 AM
 
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How sad. And uninformed, considering the # of us here raising twins without a schedule like that. Without really losing our minds. It kind of breaks my heart.
:

single mommy to identical twin girls (3/06) Non-traditional mama just : through life.
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#30 of 41 Old 07-14-2007, 01:20 PM
 
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Well, plenty of us nurse twins on demand and haven't lost our minds yet. Though maybe we were loose a few screws to begin with? Seriously though, I think Michellyn is right, there are times when having them synchronized works well, and other times when it's really better to be able to deal with them separately.

Too bad that your friend is insistent. I feel terrible for her babes too. I'm going to hope that the wisdom of babes wins out and once the 'expert' leaves the babes will insist on their own schedule and your friend will just have to be flexible and adjust!
I agree. I read all the books that said that there was no way you could feed on demand and the ONLY way was scheduling their feeds. After having my own twins, I have found that no, this is NOT the case. I have no problem feeding them on demand. Sometimes I tandem sometimes I don't. And they do have a flexible schedule, but it was one by which I followed their cues and they pretty much set it themselves.

I hope she fires this woman, it just doesn't sound like a good situation at all.
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