Do you really feel "someone else is raising your children"? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 88 Old 11-20-2006, 06:27 AM
 
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But a lot of people ARE invested in "raising" a child to be this, that or the other thing. You hear it all the time. "I am raising my child to believe/be X." You hear parents who are totally identity-invested in the identities of their children. You hear parents who are totally identity-invested in their parenting choices to the exclusion of anything else, who need to cast those who choose differently in the role of the "wrong and bad other".. and in my experience, THOSE are the people who are going to fight the mommy wars, no matter which "side" they weigh in on. And a wohm can be just as guilty of this as a sahm. A daycare user can be just as guilty of it as a non daycare user. THOSE are the people who have a need to tell others they are "letting strangers raise their children."
asherah - I absolutely agree with you! You are dead on. I have often wondered about the psychology of people who get too involved in the mummy wars. I wonder if there has been any kind of psychological profiling on them or something! I also wonder wht kind of crutch they used for their identity issues before they became parents.

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The concept of 'someone else raising your children' is so loaded because it implies they are raising them for you, not with you. Of course, the idea that parents (mothers) have to be the only ones raising their children 24/7 is a pretty modern one, and an ideological construct, nothing natural. Humans have always shared the task of childrearing communally.
nannyrachel - again, i agree completely with this.

And further, as a feminist, I would take exception to someone dictating to me how to live my role as a woman, parent and mother. This includes how I choose to birth, feed, discipline, school, and medicate.

But more than anything else, if someone told me someone else was raising my DD because she was in childcare, i'd probably just dismiss them as a bit stoooopid. Like this 'columnist':

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com....st_preference/
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#62 of 88 Old 11-20-2006, 12:00 PM
 
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But more than anything else, if someone told me someone else was raising my DD because she was in childcare, i'd probably just dismiss them as a bit stoooopid. Like this 'columnist':

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com....st_preference/

Ewww.

Kathy-Mom to Blake & Mikaela
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#63 of 88 Old 11-20-2006, 12:40 PM
 
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I used to be a SAHM, and I believed daycare was letting someone else raise your child. Now I am a WAHM--doing home daycare...and I feel differently.

I do think that your daycare provider helps take care of your child and does contribute to your child's identity, but by no means do I feel that they are raising your child. You are the one making the parenting choices, such as diet, vax/no vax, circ/no circ, bf/ff, spanking/gd, etc. You are the one chosing a DCP, usually one with ideals similar to yours. No matter what I think or say, it won't make my clients properly use the carseat, stop spanking, wait until a year to give cow milk, homeschool, etc.

I still agree with the logic that you never know exactly what goes on when your child is in another person's care, but even if the person is not caring for your child in the way you truly want, you are still the one raising the child up. I used to think DCP at least helped raise the child, but I don't now. They do help shape the child, keep the child fed and clean, and provide other kinds of care, but I think there's a lot more involved with 'raising' the child than that.

You do miss out on some things when your kid is in daycare. I have witnessed a lot of cute, precious, adorable moments that the parents did not, and I have witnessed a few firsts as well. You can't get those minutes back. I think that is people have the attitude that using daycare means you're missing your kid's childhood, but it is mistaken. Yes, you do miss some things, but that's just part of life. You could miss them if you were shopping, or had your back turned momentarily doing dishes, or if your kid was at school and did something neat, etc.

They aren't raising your kids; they are caring for them and having the pleasure (or stress) of their prescense during the time that they are in their charge. I think 'raising' is absolutely the wrong word to describe a DCP contribution to a child's welfare.

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#64 of 88 Old 11-20-2006, 01:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by little-g View Post

But more than anything else, if someone told me someone else was raising my DD because she was in childcare, i'd probably just dismiss them as a bit stoooopid. Like this 'columnist':

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com....st_preference/
I think it is a bit telling that the pol in question gets $67K a year (australian) for the rest of her life.

Heck, if I had guarenteed income like that, there are loads of ways I would spend my time (travel, volunteer, do more hanging out and getting someone else to do my laundry) that I can't do now.

You know the attributes for a great adult? Initiative, creativity, intellectual curiosity? They make for a helluva kid...
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#65 of 88 Old 11-20-2006, 03:07 PM
 
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#66 of 88 Old 11-20-2006, 05:52 PM
 
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Yes, 67k a year is certainly better than a poke in the eye!

But more than anything, I thought this piece was a perfect summary of all of the ridiculous fallacies we have all head time and time again. I work, therefore my 'child isn't precious to me'! How embarrassing for her to have written this.

I can only summise that being paid to be a D-Grade opinion writer in a conservative broadsheet doesn't actually count as being a working mum.
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#67 of 88 Old 11-20-2006, 06:02 PM
 
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#68 of 88 Old 11-21-2006, 12:00 AM
 
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I can only summise that being paid to be a D-Grade opinion writer in a conservative broadsheet doesn't actually count as being a working mum.
: good point!
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#69 of 88 Old 11-21-2006, 04:50 PM
 
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I couldn't read the whole thread, but thank you mamas who have posted.

I'm pregnant with my first at 29 weeks. I'm taking 12 week maternity leave, followed by 4 months of part-time work, then full-time in the fall.

Your words of encouragement about daycare really helped me see that I can still be a great mother and work at the same time. Heck, my mom did it- so can I!

Thanks!

Mama to my beautiful Ana Carolina (2/07), Isabel Cristina (6/10), and #3 on the way in August 2013!

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#70 of 88 Old 11-21-2006, 06:50 PM
 
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I just wanted to thank everyone for what they have posted. Even though I HAVE to work until DH graduates and gets a job, I have incredible guilt that I work.

I and DH raise Sydney. She is not DCP's daughter. I determine so much about DD's life, input which DCP does not get. I nurse and nurture DD all night.

DCP helps, but she does not raise Sydney. DCP makes Sydney's life more full, as she is teaching Syd Spanish, a language I wish I spoke but do not.

Thing is, those words "stranger raising your child" hurt and wound. Especially when DRLAURA happens to be on your radio when the car starts, or when SAHM's say unkind things, or when this is talked about at church.

I want to stay home, but cannot. Even when I can, I just might stay here. DD is attached to me and DH. She knows we are her parents. When I pick her up, she demands to nurse. When I drop her off, she demands a bottle.

I did turn this around to someone who did the stranger thing.... When DD was in the NICU, were they raising her?
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#71 of 88 Old 11-21-2006, 07:09 PM
 
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Wendy. Don't listen to Dr.Laura.
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#72 of 88 Old 11-21-2006, 10:57 PM
 
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I dont know who the heck this Dr Laura is, but if she feels comfortable and qualified to make blanket statements about all women, all fathers, all mothers, all children, all family situations at all times and in all places, then I would suggest that:

a) she is delusional
b) she is not very analytical
c) that she is very sheltered and has a very monocultural outlook
d) that she is incapable of empathetic opinion
e) that she is extremely insensitive.
d) all of the above.



Never forget this - no-one knows as well as you how well you raise your children. Ignore all others. And as I always say, "stuff 'em!!!"

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#73 of 88 Old 11-21-2006, 11:37 PM
 
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I know no more Dr Laura She comes on after a talk radio program I do listen to, and then YIKES, guilt city.

She states that if your children are in day care, you are abusing them. She wonders why people have children they are not going to raise. She says all moms should stay home, no matter the $ consequences, etc, etc, etc. She does not even have a medical degree, her PhD is in Physiology. Oh, if you are fat you are lazy, and she is pro RIC.

Even without Dr. Laura, I was raised by a SAHM, who was miserable a lot. Still I always pictured I would be a SAHM, and will admit that while the life I am leading now is wonderful and fullfulling, I still sometimes wish my dream life was there. Thing is, I learned from infertility that getting your dream, ie pregnancy, is not all its cracked up to be. I never dreamed of a high risk, IUGR, nausea filled, pain filled (sciatica) bedrest, early delivery by c/s, and nicu stay. I imagined the jolly happy pregnancy, easy bradley birth with doula, instant and easy breast feeding, YKWIM. It is hard to let the "dream" go, for now.
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#74 of 88 Old 11-21-2006, 11:49 PM
 
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asherah, I think I love you.
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#75 of 88 Old 11-22-2006, 07:46 AM
 
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Hi intorainbowz,

I think giving this Dr Laura character the swerve would be a very healthy thing to do!! I know what you mean though about the best laid plans. What's that saying? Something about the way to make God laugh is to tell him/her your plans...!! So true. I had those issues with my breastfeeding saga and believe me, the anguish I put myself through on-line about how terrible i was before I wised up and put all those negative people well and truly behind me. People love to repeat that mantra "no-one can make you feel guilty without your permission" and I always thought, "yeah but, they sure as hell can p*ss you off for trying!!"

Being a working mum doesn't make you a bad mum just as much as being a SAHM doesn't make you a good mum. Being a good parent hinges on so much more than your employment status. Don't let it get to you - be strong and know you are a great mum, The very fact you think about this so much is so telling.

People like Dr Laura have forged a career from being sensasionalist. She needs to say these outrageous things - they are her bread and butter. How horrible for her to make a living out of hurtful and and poisonous, ill-conceived preaching.

What a wonderful support you are for you DH and his studies and therefore your future life together as a family. It's great! Be proud!!!!

bdoody11 - i hope your positivity stays with you always!!
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#76 of 88 Old 11-22-2006, 08:25 AM
 
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The thing about the "someone else raising your children" remark is that I always seem to hear it from people who are not in what I would consider a good place themselves. The SAHMs I know who have really high family incomes seem to realize that they are really blessed and fortunate and never say anything suggesting that they are better mothers than WOHMs. But I have known a few SAHMs who were kind of struggling, and it seems like they have to remind themselves day in and day out that their "sacrifice" is somehow the more noble choice. I find it to be a pretty ridiculous and ignorant thing to say.

I also get really annoyed with the suggestion that children in care spend "all day" with their DCPs and only an hour or so with parents. It doesn't really work that way. Check this math on a typical day for my son:

6:30 - 8:45 With parents (2.25)
8:45 - 11:45 Pre-school (3)
11:45 - 12:30 Lunchtime (.75)
12:30 - 2:45 Naptime (2.25)
2:45 - 5:30 Aftercare (2.75)
5:30 - 9:30 With parents (4)

The math breaks down to 6.25 waking hours with parents versus 6.5 waking hours in child care. And DS often stays up later or wakes up earlier, so that split is not fixed at all. Clearly the time spent with care providers is nowhere near the 9 or 10 hours vs 1 or 2 with parents that people seem to like to believe. DS takes a looong nap at school and then stays up relatively late with us. I think some moms who stay home and then have their kids in bed by 7:30 don't realize that kids in care typically take long afternoon naps and then stay up later. Add in weekends, and breaks in the pre-school schedule (a total of about 6 weeks per year) plus our own family vacations...and it's clear that we the parents spend a LOT more time with our child than the DCPs do.
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#77 of 88 Old 11-22-2006, 11:09 AM
 
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in addition, our kids sleep in our bed so you cannot discount the hours between 9:30 - 6:30 (or 8:30 - 7:30 in our house).

Even kids who don't sleep in the same bed, it sure ain't the DCP who is up at 4am feeding a baby or mopping up vomit or trying to soothe a nightmare away.

I get rather disgruntled that some folks feel they are able to judge my parenthood based solely on who cares for my children between the hours of 9am and 5pm, monday through friday.

You know the attributes for a great adult? Initiative, creativity, intellectual curiosity? They make for a helluva kid...
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#78 of 88 Old 11-22-2006, 11:38 AM
 
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Amazing. I'm embarrassed for her. And saddened. She apparently has no clue about where life finds real meaning.
Or she finds real meaning in life in a different place than you find it.

Either way it was an incredibly rude thing to say.
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#79 of 88 Old 11-22-2006, 03:01 PM
 
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I also get really annoyed with the suggestion that children in care spend "all day" with their DCPs and only an hour or so with parents. It doesn't really work that way. Check this math on a typical day for my son:

6:30 - 8:45 With parents (2.25)
8:45 - 11:45 Pre-school (3)
11:45 - 12:30 Lunchtime (.75)
12:30 - 2:45 Naptime (2.25)
2:45 - 5:30 Aftercare (2.75)
5:30 - 9:30 With parents (4)

The math breaks down to 6.25 waking hours with parents versus 6.5 waking hours in child care. And DS often stays up later or wakes up earlier, so that split is not fixed at all. Clearly the time spent with care providers is nowhere near the 9 or 10 hours vs 1 or 2 with parents that people seem to like to believe. DS takes a looong nap at school and then stays up relatively late with us. I think some moms who stay home and then have their kids in bed by 7:30 don't realize that kids in care typically take long afternoon naps and then stay up later. Add in weekends, and breaks in the pre-school schedule (a total of about 6 weeks per year) plus our own family vacations...and it's clear that we the parents spend a LOT more time with our child than the DCPs do.
I was going to say add in the weekends, breaks off from daycare/school and the times that they are sick - but you already mentioned that.

Plus the fact that you are mom and you carried them for 9 mos and nurtured them since birth. Nothing else can compare to that, nothing. I don't care if a child attends daycare 10-12 hrs per day - it's still not MOM or DAD, with the exception of very rich people who hire round the clock nannies, now that I do not agree with but that's a whole other thread.

Single (divorced), self-employed working, college student MOM to:

 

17 yr old

11 yr old 

 4 yr old

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#80 of 88 Old 11-22-2006, 03:19 PM
 
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She states that if your children are in day care, you are abusing them. She wonders why people have children they are not going to raise.
I can't stand that comment. : I've heard it soooo many times over the last 12 years since I had my first child. Like anyone would purposely say "oh gee, I think I'll have a child so I can let someone else raise it in daycare." It just sounds so stupid to me when someone uses that type of comment in regards to putting down DC. IMO, a good parent is a parent that is taking care of their children in every way possible - financially, emotionally, physically and whatever other way there is.

There are many BAD parents out there that have children every day that are indeed SAHM on welfare and many other bad situations that abuse children (I'm in no way say all welfare recipients abuse their kids). I just don't get why real moms get such a bad wrap for doing the best they can for their families. Unless a child is being abused in some way or treated very badly by their parents then who cares what the parents are doing as far as working or not working.

Single (divorced), self-employed working, college student MOM to:

 

17 yr old

11 yr old 

 4 yr old

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#81 of 88 Old 11-22-2006, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I can't believe that this thread has generated this much response! I have read each of the posts. They have given me confidence, reassurance and knowledge. Thank you so much for taking the time to put down your thoughts. They have really helped me as I prepare myself and my family of my transition back to work and daycare.
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#82 of 88 Old 11-23-2006, 12:29 AM
 
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Good gracious, No! My husband and I are raising our little one. There are certainly days that I am away from her more than I am with her but her babysitter doesn't make her appointments, wake up with her at night, buy her clothing, etc.
Only read the first page so far.

I've been a nanny (11 hours a day for almost five years), a SAHM (for a decade), and now I work outside the home part time. So I feel like I can speak from all sides.

To answer the OP's question, it depends on the parents. Sometimes, yes, the childcare provider is raising the child.

When I was a nanny, I got there before he woke up, fed him breakfast, lunch and dinner. I bought all his clothes and toys (with their credit card). Took him for his first hair cut, to get Santa photos, to his first movie in the theater - Lion King. Planned and executed all his birthday parties. Scheduled and took him to all pediatrician appointments, and to the hospital for tests when they thought he might have e coli. Chose the clothes, made the portrait appointments, took him to them, chose the photos to print, etc. Wrote up ideas for his birthday and Xmas gifts, then actually SHOPPED for them on their credit card. When he got hurt on his 3rd birthday party, he ran past his mom's open arms and straight to me. He had to be pried off my leg when I left each night, but waved goodbye to his mom when she left in the morning, as we sang the "My mommy comes back, she always comes back" song. Researched all preschools in the area, spoke to the teachers on the phone, went to open houses to see them. Went to mommy and me swim classes, gymnastics classes, etc.

Do I think I raised him from six months old to five? Yep.

But I don't think that is always or even usually the case.

I stayed home full time with dd1 and dd2 until they each went to kindergarten, and dd3 until she was three. The oldest two kids never saw a daycare. My dd3 is in an inhome daycare every afternoon for four hours. I think it is great; the daycare lady is very loving and fun and does a great job. I don't think she is raising my child - but she is helping me raise her for those four hours each day.

I think if the parents are involved and attentive and loving - whether they work outside the house or not - then they are raising their child.

But I think it is a really great thing for a kid to be attached and loved by their childcare provider! I am not jealous of my dd3's love for Miss Julie; I think she is pretty great too! It is GOOD for my kid to have that relationship. Do I think it supercedes my position as her mom? No. But it is a great thing for dd3.
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#83 of 88 Old 11-23-2006, 10:09 PM
 
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asherah, I think I love you.
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#84 of 88 Old 11-25-2006, 11:09 PM
 
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I completely agree with the "it takes a village" mentality. I like that my child has other positive influences in his life besides myself and DH. he is thriving in DC/Pre-school and I am a better mommy b/c I WOH part time.

Doula, Wife and mom to A (11/23/01) and O (5/7/09)
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#85 of 88 Old 11-29-2006, 02:30 PM
 
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I just read through the posts since my last one and wanted to add something.

In defense of Dr Laura's talkshow, she has helped many self-centered people refocus on the needs of their children. I think that is very important - whether those people work in an office, work at home, or pretend to be a stay-at-home parent while spending all day on the couch watching soap operas and neglecting their kids. We bring our children into the world without their input, so it's up to us to make decisions that sometimes cramp our style in order to do what's best for our kids.

I think there are plenty of people who work that are still very good mothers, as I said before. But I live in what is probably the richest district of our city and see families completely neglecting their kids to live a lifestyle that is not in the best interest of their children. They drive Hummers and Beemers, have maids, cater their parties, and take very expensive vacations. But they are never, ever home with their kids. They throw money at their children in hopes of asuaging their guilt. And, in turn, far too many of the kids use that money to get themselves in trouble. The public high school in this area has a serious drug problem. The kids have the money to buy it and no parents around to notice. When parents like these no longer have enough balance in their lives to realize that their kids need them to be an active part in their life, something has gone seriously wrong.

If a talkshow host can make any of those parents feel guilty enough about their self-centered choices that are hurting their kids, then more power to the host. I've worked in a national daycare and would never, ever put my kids in one. It was a terrible environment with workers who didn't put any effort into interacting with the kids in their care. I quit after a month. But I also had a friend who ran a daycare out of her home, and those children thrived. They were happy to arrive and happy to see their parents come at the end of the day. The parents who left their children in her care had taken the time to find a good environment, and it was a very worthwhile investment in the best interest of their kids.

There are no absolutes, and whether we are a good parent has to do with our willingness to put our kids first - no matter what our vocation in life happens to be.

But I hate to see Dr Laura trashed because of her stance on putting kids first. In honesty, I think that is the goal that each of us have, isn't it?
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#86 of 88 Old 11-29-2006, 04:00 PM
 
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Do I think that Dr. Laura has done good helping people refocus on thier children? Yes I do.

I believe we were not discussing her "focus on children". I believe we were discussing her blanket statement that moms who work are abusing their children, and that all moms should be stay at home moms. We were also talking about her statements about "why do people have children if they are not going to raise them?"

Those are the statements that I find inflamatory and hurtful. I do not believe someone else is raising DD, DH and I raise her. I do not believe she is being abused because I work. If I did not work we would be homeless and hungry, and I find that to be more abusive than to be in a inhome day care for 8.5 hours a day.
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#87 of 88 Old 11-30-2006, 07:04 AM
 
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I think there are plenty of people who work that are still very good mothers, as I said before. But I live in what is probably the richest district of our city and see families completely neglecting their kids to live a lifestyle that is not in the best interest of their children. They drive Hummers and Beemers, have maids, cater their parties, and take very expensive vacations. But they are never, ever home with their kids. They throw money at their children in hopes of asuaging their guilt. And, in turn, far too many of the kids use that money to get themselves in trouble. The public high school in this area has a serious drug problem. The kids have the money to buy it and no parents around to notice. When parents like these no longer have enough balance in their lives to realize that their kids need them to be an active part in their life, something has gone seriously wrong.

And I see plenty of families like this with so-called sahms, who let the nannies watch the kids while they go to the mall all day. The picture you draw is about values, not about the decision to work or not, or to use daycare or not. Though, of course, this description is also a straw-man stereotype. And it frankly strikes me as just more mommy-war rhetoric.

I don't give a rat's butt about Dr. Laura one way or another, I find her voice divisive and irrelevant, so I am not going to go there.

But I think that ultimately, it is more helpful to talk about our OWN choices and values, to turn the discussion INWARD and go from there, rather than pointing the finger at "others," especially in such a generalized, stereotyped way, to use as fodder for argument.
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#88 of 88 Old 11-30-2006, 09:13 AM
 
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I live in what is probably the richest district of our city and see families completely neglecting their kids to live a lifestyle that is not in the best interest of their children...
I see this a lot in my community.

Dh and I are both working professionals. But we work tremendously hard at negotiating our lifestyles to include and accomodate dd at every possible moment, and have both made significant sacrifices in our careers so that we can devote more time and energy to parenting. Dd is truly the focus of our world.

With some of our friends, it's almost like their kids are an appendage or an adjunct to their lives, and that their careers are paramount. And I don't just mean in terms of time or energies spent. It's like their kids aren't in their minds as much. They aren't thinking about parenting, talking about parenting, focusing on parenting. They aren't interested in conversations about their kids. We want to plan family outings that are enriching for dd and they want to have someone watch their child so they can do other things. Their minds are just in a different place.

For me it's effortless to focus on dd - it's what I'm interested in and what I want to do. So I don't know what it's like for folks who don't feel that way. I suppose they must compel themselves to spend time with their kids, the way I have to compel myself to clean the bathroom or put in extra time at work.

It seems very sad for everyone.
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