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#61 of 169 Old 01-05-2008, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by artemis80 View Post
OMG, I was on some other site where this woman had written a piece on how "My son will remember that I was there to kiss every boo-boo, he will remember that I made him three meals a day, that even though we never stayed at the Hilton, his mama was always there for him, not off working to own mansions and fancy cars and take expensive vacations."

Because, yeah, that's why I work, lady. To buy mansions and fancy cars and take expensive vacations. Not to, you know, pay rent on our duplex or *gasp* feel satisfied as a person. As someone said upthread, bite me!
Because, yeah, it's so easy in today's economy to afford mansions! Gimme a break!

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#62 of 169 Old 01-05-2008, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by EVC View Post
My "favorite" is the "I could never leave my children with STRANGERS"
MOST of the caretakers I've known have been warm, friendly, caring, dedicated, and often moms themselves. And yes, I get to know them first. They're not strangers!

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#63 of 169 Old 01-05-2008, 09:26 PM
 
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I just felt slapped in the face by a co-worker who returned from maternity leave this week. Her fiance is being a sahd. We were talking about her baby and she told me how he is staying home. I said how great for you. She followed with - yes, I would never put my child in daycare. I have worked with this woman for the last 10 years and she knows full well that both of my children were in daycare. I also know she was not directing the comment at me personally but I felt slapped just the same.
I've had the same experience, and it came from my boss. I was really taken aback at how strongly she said it and how strongly I reacted. I also felt like I had been slapped.

I just spent the holidays with my in-laws, so there were a few choice moments, but I try not to remember them. (Denial is not just a river in Egypt )
The comment I remember the most came from my SIL when I was pregnant and attending grad school. She was trying to convince me to take a year off after the baby. When I explained that I really didn't think I would be a very good mom if I stayed home, I really enjoyed working and felt fulfilled, and mentioned a friend of mine who was an MD and felt similarly my SIL said "Don't you think those people shouldn't have children then?" I wish I had some witty remark, but I just sat in stunned silence.

And SiobhanG - YOU ROCK!
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#64 of 169 Old 01-05-2008, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MomToKandE View Post
Part of the reason I WOH is that I grew up with a SAHM who would have really been much happier if she'd had a career. Sure, she was there (and doing the best she could, I'm not slamming on her) but I truly think that if she'd not been a full time SAHM she would have been a much happier person. I learned from her example that having a full time SAHP is not necessarily best for all families.
Me, too.

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#65 of 169 Old 01-05-2008, 09:30 PM
 
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You mean, I've been WOH for 3.5 years with all the stress of pumping, commuting, and juggling DR's appts, and I was supposed to get a McMansion AND a Hummer?!?!

What happened?

Where's my McMansion???

--LEE
You can have mine. I'm giving it away, we have too many houses as it is. And we just got a third Hummer, it's puce colored with those funny spinning rims. And of course our luxury vacation in fancy schmancy land was fabulous.














No offense meant to anyone with a puce colored hummer with spinning rims.
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#66 of 169 Old 01-06-2008, 12:52 AM
 
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I've also gotten the comment "I don't want other people raising my children!" by one of my closest mom friends (we're related, and have totally different parenting philosophies but get along as friends). I'm not sure if she was putting her foot in her mouth, or if I get Super Mom Brownie Points because my sister is one of my dcp's so technically it's not strangers (eyeroll).

Sometimes I catch myself qualifying my son being in daycare to people, like mentioning that my sister works at the daycare or that ds is there 4 days/week, not 5. It's ridiculous, because I don't feel like I'm any better than a mom with a kid in daycare 5 days with a non-relative dcp. I just feel so judged before I even open my mouth.
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#67 of 169 Old 01-06-2008, 01:11 AM
 
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You can have mine. I'm giving it away, we have too many houses as it is. And we just got a third Hummer, it's puce colored with those funny spinning rims. And of course our luxury vacation in fancy schmancy land was fabulous.
: : :

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Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post
This thread really lifted my spirits...because sometimes the comments about moms WOH, even if they are well-meaning, get me down. My favorite all-time comment was not from someone I know, but from a thread on another website concerning comments about obesity in American children. One woman stated that obesity in children was due solely to working moms. She said that if moms didn't work, they would be at home making sure their children have balanced meals. When I responded to her post and asked if the obesity problem was related to us vegetarian, hiking/biking families, she angrily replied that I was a fake and then instructed me to "get off my working butt and go home and clean my house!" . . .
I recall working AND making homemade babyfood to send to the DCP (we've purchased VERY little pre-made food), and a certain SAHM I knew was buying all the crap food, etc. Even now, I have to watch what my kids eat at her house because it's all full of HFCS!
Of course, I also know WOHMs whose kids live on lunchables, and SAHMs whose kids consider Whole Foods sampling the ultimate buffet.

I love this thread! And I think we are keeping it positive
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#68 of 169 Old 01-06-2008, 01:55 AM
 
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I WOH, but nights, so I am out and about a lot with the baby during the day. I hear a lot of anti-WOH comments, and people usually fall all over themselves to take it back when I say I work FT.

I, too, find myself qualifying hings - Yes, I WOH FT, but nights, and DD is with her father 90% of the time and with my ILs the other 10%. And yes, I WOH FT, but half of the time I'm gone DD is asleep for the night. Yes, I WOH FT, but...

Blah. I have learned to just say "This is working for us for now" and that usually works.

What kills me is my SIL, who has 3 kids and WOH FT, is the one who makes the MEANEST comments most often about my working!
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#69 of 169 Old 01-06-2008, 03:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rinnerin View Post
You can have mine. I'm giving it away, we have too many houses as it is. And we just got a third Hummer, it's puce colored with those funny spinning rims. And of course our luxury vacation in fancy schmancy land was fabulous.
Oh, you go to Fancy Schmancy Land? We LOVE Fancy Schmancy Land! I especially like the little chocolates on the fluffy pillows and the way they hand you umbrella drinks in tall glasses all the time.

DD1 = 8 yrs *** DD2 = 6 yrs
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#70 of 169 Old 01-06-2008, 04:02 PM
 
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Oh, you go to Fancy Schmancy Land? We LOVE Fancy Schmancy Land! I especially like the little chocolates on the fluffy pillows and the way they hand you umbrella drinks in tall glasses all the time.
laughup
It is truly a fantastic place. I love the umbrella drinks. And don't you love the people who come and wave fans and spray you with cool water when it's a bit warm? And the one's who pull your socks on for you, cashmere of course, when it gets cool outside?

Isn't working fabulous?

:: ::
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#71 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 12:12 PM
 
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I love this thread and it really cheered me up this morning. Today is my first day back to work and I have already got a comment!

One of the guys I work with said “oh so you did come back” I told him yes to keep the explanation to a minimum. Then he goes on to say “well in my day, the moms stayed home with the kids and that was final”. I politely told him that I would love to stay home but it’s just not possible. Then he goes on to tell me that his wife stayed home and I just need to make sacrifices that I’m obviously not willing to do! Ummmm ok…my DH is in school and I make less than 40k a year. We don’t have a phone or cable, we never eat out, I can’t remember the last time I bought something for fun but yeah….I need to make more sacrifices to stay home. I was speechless but luckily I have more things to worry about this morning then that comment.
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#72 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Fancy-schmancy land reminded me of something else. I actually am a closet fan of Dr. Laura. I've never listened to her show, but I really like some of her books. However, the one on "10 stupid things people do to mess up their kids" kills me. She is very anti-working mom. However, all the examples she gives of working moms are just ludicrous. She talks about moms who actually live apart from their children during the week, or who miss birthdays, and pageants at school. moms who drop the kid off at a new daycrae provider and forget to tell the DCP their child's name. All of her examples are like that. Apparently, working moms never have any flexibility to be home in time for dinner every night, much less take off during the day to attend a pageant at school.

Mom to DS 5/05 and DD 9/08
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#73 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 12:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Qestia View Post
She talks about moms who actually live apart from their children during the week, or who miss birthdays, and pageants at school. moms who drop the kid off at a new daycrae provider and forget to tell the DCP their child's name. All of her examples are like that. Apparently, working moms never have any flexibility to be home in time for dinner every night, much less take off during the day to attend a pageant at school.
classic strawman argument - one I see a lot by other vehement SAHM proponents.

Of course Dr Laura and the like assume that these examples a. are the norm (which they aren't) and b. that women who do live like this WANT to - or have much choice in the matter.

'Course, many of the social conservatives who foam at the mouth over middle class women working outside the home are all about poor (esp. single, WOC) mothers getting jobs, despite the fact they are the LEAST likely to get jobs which have benefits, have flexibility over their schedules, or pay enough to afford decent childcare - i.e. the very things that are shown to be detrimental to children.

I personally think that everyone who is a proponent of ALL babies having a SAHM, they should start with the working poor, many of whom would love to be able to stay home and avoid substandard childcare and inflexible jobs.

Oh, but that would mean figuring how they can afford it, since you cannot eat love. MUCH easier to tell middle class women to stay home, since no one other than the family itself would have to pay for it.

Grumpy this am

Siobhan

You know the attributes for a great adult? Initiative, creativity, intellectual curiosity? They make for a helluva kid...
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#74 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 01:09 PM
 
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Fancy-schmancy land reminded me of something else. I actually am a closet fan of Dr. Laura. I've never listened to her show, but I really like some of her books. However, the one on "10 stupid things people do to mess up their kids" kills me. She is very anti-working mom. However, all the examples she gives of working moms are just ludicrous. She talks about moms who actually live apart from their children during the week, or who miss birthdays, and pageants at school. moms who drop the kid off at a new daycrae provider and forget to tell the DCP their child's name. All of her examples are like that. Apparently, working moms never have any flexibility to be home in time for dinner every night, much less take off during the day to attend a pageant at school.
She also happens to be a highly successful working mother.

~ Mum to Emily, March 12-16 2004, Noah, born Aug 2005, Liam, born January 2011, and wife to Carl since 1994. ~
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#75 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 04:12 PM
 
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MOST of the caretakers I've known have been warm, friendly, caring, dedicated, and often moms themselves. And yes, I get to know them first. They're not strangers!

Yes, I am always freaked out when people assume that daycare is "institutional"--especially because I use a center and not a nanny at home. That no one will play with or a comfort any of the children and they're ignored all day.

I do not leave my little girl in an orphanage in Chechnya every day, where she's put in a crib, staring at a cracked, white wall with only one one (white) rat to play with and one spoonful of warm (white) gruel to eat all day. I drop her off at a warm, loving, vibrantly interactive day care center full of people who LOVE children, and kids who love to play. I do feel the sting of failure as a mother though, because my day care does not serve organic food. They do serve up a lotta love though, so I compromise on that.
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#76 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 05:27 PM
 
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Yes, I am always freaked out when people assume that daycare is "institutional"--especially because I use a center and not a nanny at home. That no one will play with or a comfort any of the children and they're ignored all day.

I do not leave my little girl in an orphanage in Chechnya every day, where she's put in a crib, staring at a cracked, white wall with only one one (white) rat to play with and one spoonful of warm (white) gruel to eat all day. I drop her off at a warm, loving, vibrantly interactive day care center full of people who LOVE children, and kids who love to play. I do feel the sting of failure as a mother though, because my day care does not serve organic food. They do serve up a lotta love though, so I compromise on that.
Yeah at my son's school they get at least three spoonsful of gruel. That's okay, it's better than the fast food we are supposed to be eating every day because somehow my capacity to wash vegetables is impaired. :

Anyways, I came back to this thread because I just got a good one - "I just hope you can live with the regret later."

Oy vey. I'll do my best.

~ Mum to Emily, March 12-16 2004, Noah, born Aug 2005, Liam, born January 2011, and wife to Carl since 1994. ~
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#77 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 05:31 PM
 
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She also happens to be a highly successful working mother.
:
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#78 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 06:08 PM
 
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Yes, I am always freaked out when people assume that daycare is "institutional"--especially because I use a center and not a nanny at home. That no one will play with or a comfort any of the children and they're ignored all day.
When I first started putting ds in daycare, I had no clue what to expect. But then I was so surprised by how great it was! I was expecting something colder, more official, with lots of strict rules, but instead it looked similar to the day that 2 parents would have with their 9 toddlers, you know? (like Jon & Kate plus 8!). And I would ask "so what do you do about X?" and they'd say "oh, we'll do whatever each parent wants us to do." That blew me away.

I think if every person tried putting their child in a good daycare centre for a week, they'd have a new appreciation for what a great environment it is.
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#79 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 06:14 PM
 
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I think if every person tried putting their child in a good daycare centre for a week, they'd have a new appreciation for what a great environment it is.
Around here, most daycare centers call themselves preschools for the "over 2 yr old" sets, because the term "daycare" has such negative stigma. I know the daycare centers I interviewed (and the ones my friends use) have preschool curriculum for 2s on up.

And many traditional part-day preschools offer before and after school programs, too.

It is funny how "daycare" is bad, but "preschool" is good.

Siobhan

You know the attributes for a great adult? Initiative, creativity, intellectual curiosity? They make for a helluva kid...
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#80 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 07:45 PM
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Today, with the exeption of an hour and a half break to visit the doctor, I've been alone with 2 of my 3 children. It was HELL. I don't do well when left alone with them because I'm outnumbered and they tend to stress me out. I'm sure some children do benefit from having a SAHM, but mine certainly wouldn't. Maybe if DH were home with them, too, it would be ok.
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#81 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 09:18 PM
 
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I hate the "would never put my child in daycare" comment but I do understand the fear that feeds it. Finding good childcare IS challenging and scary. I just think people don't know how they sound.
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#82 of 169 Old 01-07-2008, 10:33 PM
 
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I'm a wohm that totally supports mamas not going crazy being with their babes 24/7. Some mamas do it with style and grace, but others NEED the time away to be better mamas to their children.

But... I was floored by this comment made by a friend of mine:

"I plan on having a baby and my parents raising it. That way I don't have to sacrifice my career and can just enjoy my baby when I want to."

Um... this isn't a puppy we're talking about hon...:

I am not crunchy enough for this forum. Everyday I get a little crunchier though! :
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#83 of 169 Old 01-08-2008, 01:14 AM
 
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Um... this isn't a puppy we're talking about hon...:

IT'S NOT!?!?!?!?!?!

Oh crap, you mean I can't give it back when it gets too big and jumps on me?
Awww man, I. am. screwed.



:

Honestly, I have to use humor to keep myself sane. That is really a horrible comment your friend made, and it makes it doubly insulting because it just feeds the Dr. Laura et al sterotype of WOHM. Was she really serious?

Over the last year I have tried to grow a thicker skin on these things, but the thing that still gets me isn't so much what people say, it's what they don't say. My in-laws don't tear me down, they just don't say anything. The simply do not acknowledge that I have a career, a master's degree, and am in a management role. They also don't acknowledge that we couldn't have moved back to the west coast (closer to them!) if I didn't work and bring in a sizable percentage of our household income. I try not to need their acknowledgment/tacit approval, but I kinda sorta do.

Some of these things people have said really get me feeling sad.

s mamas.
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#84 of 169 Old 01-08-2008, 02:28 AM
 
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I made the mistake of laughing, thinking she was joking, and she was so offended she got up and left the table, leaving the rest of us just staring at eachother in bewilderment.

As for your inlaws not acknowledging you for the supermom that you are s.

We all rock, the wohm, wahm, sahm and all of the blended shades inbetween!

Because that's what it comes down to, wohm are still sahm on their "days off" and wahm are sahm, and sahm are wahm if you think about it!

I am not crunchy enough for this forum. Everyday I get a little crunchier though! :
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#85 of 169 Old 01-08-2008, 03:04 AM
 
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Some of these comments are really pathetic.

"I hope you can live with the regret later." For Pete's sake, somebody was pathetic enough to say that?

One thing that really helped me as far as developing a thick skin (and I have a really pretty thick one, I usually just think worse of the speaker and move on when somebody tries their digs on me) is to think immediately about how what the speaker is saying reflects onto the speaker, and to have compassion for the speaker. I really, really try hard to feel compassion for the person speaking.

So, for instance, when somebody fairly recently, and with intended insult, told me that she could simply never leave her children with strangers all day, instead of hearing the insult, I tried to feel what would cause her to feel such fear. So I answered "I think it's wonderful that my child gets to experience the love of so many wonderful people, and I'm not scared of that. I think that just makes his life even better!" She kind of backed off. Maybe she thought I was : because it was pretty clearly not the usual response she got.

It sure helps my mood, in any case. People really want to make targets out of WOHMs, and I'm sorry, I'm too busy to be somebody's punching bag because their own life is miserable.
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#86 of 169 Old 01-08-2008, 02:42 PM
 
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Oh, you go to Fancy Schmancy Land? We LOVE Fancy Schmancy Land! I especially like the little chocolates on the fluffy pillows and the way they hand you umbrella drinks in tall glasses all the time.
Of course Fancy Shmancy Land is better enjoyed if the kids stay home... preferably with strangers LOL...

DH's response to the "I didn't want my child raised by strangers" was "Oh, strangers aren't so bad really. The big problem is that you keep having to look for a new care provider every time DD gets to know the current one..."

It's amazing how we all (regardless of employment status) feel the need to justify our positions. I'm sure many of those comments are because those people have been made to feel smaller for "not having gainful employment" ("I could never stay home with the kids, my brain would just shrivel up" is one comment I've heard).

My mother laid the best one on me though - incorporating many of the comments here. She told me she believed that children did best with their mother (not parent, mother) home with them, and that we could definitely make it happen if we were willing to sacrifice. Sure we could - if we gave up the small ranch house we have on the woodlot where DD can run and play and learn about the world, give up the dogs, move into the city, etc etc. Personally, I think DD would choose this life, and based on the happy reaction she had about returning to the dayhome after the Christmas break, I'm not sure she'd thank me for the change! The irony is stunning since mum did stay home with us and told us every day that she was doing this for US, that she was accomplishing nothing, and we were making her miserable. Ummmm... thanks for that, mum. Way to be selfless!

I just cut back my work week to 80% and I have to say it is a pretty nice compromise. 60% would be even better, but I'll take what I can get!

Perdita - newly SAHM to DD July/05 & DS Feb/10 joy.gif
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#87 of 169 Old 01-08-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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It is interesting how many of us were raised by unhappy moms who were home with us full-time. Me too, and I know it was a big influence on my decision to continue working out of the home.
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#88 of 169 Old 01-08-2008, 03:33 PM
 
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Of course Fancy Shmancy Land is better enjoyed if the kids stay home... preferably with strangers LOL...
You know, now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen any kids in Fancy Shmancy Land. In fact, I wonder where mine were? Probably with some stranger or something. Hmm.






DD1 = 8 yrs *** DD2 = 6 yrs
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#89 of 169 Old 01-08-2008, 03:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ProtoLawyer View Post
but staying home with children seems like my own personal version of hell. (Just my own hell--I know it's others' personal heaven and that's cool too.)
hehe this is so me! I am all excited because I'm starting college soon. after that I'll be able to work again yay! I can't wait!

Jami (25) Roland (27) & Caleb (5), Jacob (3.5) , Kaitlyn (2)
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#90 of 169 Old 01-08-2008, 04:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mama_Bear View Post
We were having dinner at a neighbour's house a few years ago. They come from a background where it is absolutely unthinkable for a woman to work outside the home once she has kids.

DD was just 2 at the time. She said "thank you for dinner" to the hostess after we ate. Her husband said "wow, she has great manners. You must have worked hard on that. Or, really, I guess your daycare provider did."

Rebecca, mama to M (08/06) and E (04/09)
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