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#151 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Unless you have an extremely tiny circle of people who you talk to, or you polled everyone you know, how do you know that nobody else does it?

I have asked many people I know over the last couple days and they don't tip maids. It never occurred toN them. And they have never heard of it. OK maybe I should amend that to, "many people I know" since i haven't asked EVERYONE.

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No, I was a maid in California, Arizona and Massachusetts. In Arizona, it was in a very poor community on a Navajo reservation. Tipping is done very regularly. I think that since you say that you don't do the tipping, your DH does, it's possible that things in the tipping world go on that you're not familiar with? I'm glad to hear that the majority of MDCers here are aware of and observe tipping generously for services!
He does not tip hotel maids behind my back. We once stayed in a hotel for a month because a gasoline tanker crashed into our pool sheering off a fire hydrant that flooded the house. We didn't leave a tip, neither did my parents, or my brother, (we were temp. living at my parents house while waiting to buy.) We didn't tip. As I said, I have never heard of such a thing. And I asked him about it the other day. He looked at me like "WTH" and said no.

While some of you might like to think stuff like this is common knowledge.. I am telling you it is not.
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#152 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 02:03 PM
 
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While some of you might like to think stuff like this is common knowledge.. I am telling you it is not.
It really isn't. I don't understand why people are so flabbergasted by that.

My parents never tipped hotel maids growing up. I don't know if it was because it wasn't expected, because we mostly only stayed in hotels in other countries, because we were poor, because my father wasn't native, or what. It just wasn't done. Even now I don't tip nightly. In fact, if I were to leave money sitting out on the desk in a hotel room and it wasn't there when I got back, I'd be pretty ticked (and in fact I do tend to leave loose change on the desk and it's always there when I come back). I leave money on the bed at check-out - usually $1-2/night, but only at hotels where I feel like I was taken care of. And I used to work in a hotel. The concept of tipping every day regardless is amazing to me.

Just like the concept of "the tip must start at 20%", or "the tip is required, it is not a thank you" is astounding to me. I served for years, and if I got 20%, it made my week. I NEVER expected it, regardless of how much running around I might need to do for that customer. Now if someone stiffed me completely, I'd be pretty ticked, but I'd spend the rest of the evening trying to figure out what I did to offend them. I never expected more than 10% - I figured that way I could be pleasantly surprised (and less disappointed) by people. The tip *IS* a thank-you, and is ultimately voluntary.

From Webster's:
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Tip - : to give a gratuity to : to bestow a gratuity
Gratuity - something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service
I'll also point out that I live in one of the highest COL areas in the country - and I still only tip 20% if the server actually earned it. If they didn't earn it, I have no problem going with 12 or 15, and if they were bad, I've been known to walk out without leaving one at all. That's the way "voluntary" works.

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#153 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 05:07 PM
 
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While some of you might like to think stuff like this is common knowledge.. I am telling you it is not.
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I'll also point out that I live in one of the highest COL areas in the country - and I still only tip 20% if the server actually earned it. If they didn't earn it, I have no problem going with 12 or 15, and if they were bad, I've been known to walk out without leaving one at all. That's the way "voluntary" works.
Just a couple of thoughts I had reading the last two posts.

I've been caught by etiquette rules I didn't know about too. My parents were not all that savvy and are still pretty poor tippers. This is probably why I've been careful to try to keep up on the practice and not assume that what I learned as a kid is still right.

I check for an area I haven't visited before, and I usually ask the hotel when I book. It's "voluntary" in the sense that no one is going to arrest me if I don't tip, unlike paying for the meal itself.

But it's etiquette in that really, the 15-20% restaurant tip and the $3-5/day hotel tip are pretty much as far as I know, expected.

I don't really consider it a question of entitlement on the part of the service provider so much as that it's part of my social contract in interacting with service providers, if that makes sense. I try to cough into my sleeve too.

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#154 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 07:20 PM
 
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If you didn't stay in hotels as a child, or if your parents didn't know to tip, then I can understand not knowing. How would you know?
This is me. I had no idea it was customary to tip hotel maids/cleaners until very recently. We never stayed in a hotel when I was a kid (once, when we couldn't get to the next campground without mom driving another 4 hours, on top of the 7-8 she's already been behind the wheel). Hotels are something I'm only just getting used to. Unfortunately, I've still failed to tip a few times, esp. when I'm in the US, because I do everything on debit/credit cards, and forget that I need to pull some cash until it's too late. I'm still working on that.

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When we moved, we gave each of the movers $50 at the end of the day.
One of the younger movers said that there are huge huge houses they are moving out of and people give them maybe a glass of water and a thanks if they are lucky at the end of the day.
My dad was a mover for over 40 years. My brother's been doing it for almost 30. My ex did it for about 8. My BIL did it for about 20. Overall, I'd say they get a tip from less than 20% of their customers. Sometimes, they'll get one every day for a week. Sometimes, they're lucky to see one a month. I have to wonder what it's like for moving companies in "normal" neighbourhoods. The company they all worked for was located in a very expensive area (a few local rock stars, quite a large number of millionaires - mansions with waterfront views and/or beachfront). They moved a lot of very wealthy people. Heck - they moved a guy to his new island once (he tipped nicely). But, honestly...even when they get tips, they're usually pretty small. They'll do a 12 hour day, and the customer will give each guy a $5 bill at the end.

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#155 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 07:26 PM
 
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TUnfortunately, I've still failed to tip a few times, esp. when I'm in the US, because I do everything on debit/credit cards, and forget that I need to pull some cash until it's too late. I'm still working on that.
Can't you leave your tip on the credit/debit card at the front desk, just like you would at a restaurant?

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#156 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 07:29 PM
 
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Can't you leave your tip on the credit/debit card at the front desk, just like you would at a restaurant?
I have no idea...never heard of that. If you need to tip the cleaner every day, and you only pay at the end, would that work?

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#157 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 08:08 PM
 
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A friend and I went out to dinner on Tuesday night, same thing. Prime table at a busy restaurant with a long wait. We stayed almost 3 hours. I left a large tip because I just cost that server at least the tip on another table. I don't know what she tipped, she paid via cc, I paid with cash, but I left enough that even if she tipped poorly, it made up it. Servers here do NOT earn min wage. I remember in 2001 when I last waited tables in college, I made $2.13 an hour. Tips were how I paid the bills.


I also until a few years ago, had no idea to tip maids at a hotel, but I do now!

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#158 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 08:26 PM
 
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I have no idea...never heard of that. If you need to tip the cleaner every day, and you only pay at the end, would that work?
Presumably the hotel management would have a record of who cleaned your room each day and could distribute the tip accordingly. I don't know how it actually works, though. You could always ask at the desk when you check in or check out.

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#159 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 08:40 PM
 
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it's recommended by travel books and mags... as a nice thing to do- and there are envelopes and welcome cards sometimes... you know 'hi, my name is julie, i cleaned your room'- i figured those were to solicit tips! i tip if my kid (or me) trashes things such that it needs more than an average clean.

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I have asked many people I know over the last couple days and they don't tip maids. It never occurred toN them. And they have never heard of it. OK maybe I should amend that to, "many people I know" since i haven't asked EVERYONE.



He does not tip hotel maids behind my back. We once stayed in a hotel for a month because a gasoline tanker crashed into our pool sheering off a fire hydrant that flooded the house. We didn't leave a tip, neither did my parents, or my brother, (we were temp. living at my parents house while waiting to buy.) We didn't tip. As I said, I have never heard of such a thing. And I asked him about it the other day. He looked at me like "WTH" and said no.

While some of you might like to think stuff like this is common knowledge.. I am telling you it is not.
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#160 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 09:35 PM
 
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My parents were not all that savvy and are still pretty poor tippers.
When I eat out with MIL, if she insists on paying, I insist on leaving the tip - 'cause I know she doesn't tip enough. I have one friend who only tips about half what is acceptable (IMO) so I make an excuse to go back to the table after we've started to walk out - "oh, did I leave my sunglasses on the table?? Be right back!" That friend probably thinks I'd lose my head if it wasn't attached. If I'm with friends and we have separate checks, and I notice they left a small tip, I'll just leave a bigger one to equal it out. No note necessary.

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#161 of 173 Old 07-24-2009, 09:52 PM
 
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it's recommended by travel books and mags... as a nice thing to do-
That's where I first came across it - an old book. But, that book recommended tipping $1/day for hotel room service. I didn't realize for at least a couple of years how out of date that probably was.

I don't remember what that book was, though. I don't read travel books or magazines, so that's one source of information that would completely bypass me.

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#162 of 173 Old 07-25-2009, 12:26 AM
 
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I tip hairdressers, maids, movers as well as servers. We generally do 18% at restaurants, always rounding UP.

The key is that if the servers were paid a regular wage, the food would cost more. It's part of the cost of the meal, but you have a little discretion as a patron to give more or less. But I can't remember the last time I gave less than 15%.

Then again, I'm pretty easygoing, I also can't remember getting truly bad service anytime (in the US) in the past few years. I focus on the good

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It's "voluntary" in the sense that no one is going to arrest me if I don't tip, unlike paying for the meal itself.

But it's etiquette in that really, the 15-20% restaurant tip and the $3-5/day hotel tip are pretty much as far as I know, expected.

I don't really consider it a question of entitlement on the part of the service provider so much as that it's part of my social contract in interacting with service providers, if that makes sense. I try to cough into my sleeve too.
Nicely put.
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#163 of 173 Old 07-25-2009, 01:01 AM
 
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But it's etiquette in that really, the 15-20% restaurant tip and the $3-5/day hotel tip are pretty much as far as I know, expected.

I don't really consider it a question of entitlement on the part of the service provider so much as that it's part of my social contract in interacting with service providers, if that makes sense. I try to cough into my sleeve too.
My teenager expects me to get her a driving permit on her birthday. It doens't mean I am going too.

As for social contracts..I have never seen a copy of one.
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#164 of 173 Old 07-25-2009, 02:04 AM
 
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Very interesting thread.

I must admit I am also surprised that it is expected to tip maids - I had never heard of that & we've stayed in hotels a lot in the past few years. And quite frankly I don't know we could swing it - much of the time dh is in a hotel for work & therefore work is paying for the room, but would not cover a tip. A couple of years ago he spent at least a 3rd of the year in different hotels - no way we could have afforded that much tipping out of pocket.

It is great that so many people here seem to be able to tip everyone who gives them service but that just is not viable for many of us. That said I go out of my way to be extra polite & easy for service people. When we had movers (again not something we were not paying for but dh's work was) we provided drinks & food all day - but that cost us much less than tipping all of them would have.

We've had the "how much to tip" conversations with friends here before & the consensus is to tip the tax - which here in Ontario is 14%. Dh & I tend to tip more than that but certainly have tipped less when we've received really exceptionally terrible service.

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#165 of 173 Old 07-25-2009, 01:36 PM
 
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My teenager expects me to get her a driving permit on her birthday. It doens't mean I am going too.

Why not? You make it sound like you're not going to because you don't have to. And you're right, you don't have to. But if it's just to exercise control, I'd question the motive!

As for social contracts..I have never seen a copy of one.
Very funny. It's ok that you aren't going to follow the unwritten rules.

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#166 of 173 Old 07-26-2009, 12:08 AM
 
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From what you posted here, the cheap tips, and the issue with the woman stealing the tip from your server, I'm having an incredibly hard time understanding why you'd want to spend time with these people again. I'd be embarrassed to share a table with them if these behaviors are their norm.
I have since seen your post saying that alcohol was involved, I do think you handled it well though.


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I read the last part of your post. The comment "apparently industry standards are different according to the type of resturant you go to" was directed at that.

And as I have said numerous times, I don't leave the tip, DH does and when I asked him he said he leaves 20%. I have never really had the occasion to go out without DH so I was unaware that it had been raised from 10% to 20% since the last time I had known what it was. (probably something my parents told me.)



Now see.. I wont join a health club becuase it pisses me off that they charge $114 a month (what it would be for my family) plus all the join fees and STILL CHARGE EXTRA for everything my family would want to do. They can keep their club and I will pay the extra $10 for non-member swimming lessons.

I also don't ride the train when we go to the zoo.
I think you have no choice but to stay home then. If you go out without your husband and don't leave a tip its rude and obnoxious to your server.

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Here it is - flat out-

A 10% tip is ridiculous.

Please, please never leave your server under 18%, not only will they be disappointed in themselves, their managers will see and think they aren't doing their job.

18% is on the low end. I would feel like I didn't do a great job if u got that. I leave 20%, always. These jobs are HARD.

And you know what, what's 10 dollars? If you leave 25% instead of 18%, she is going to remember you. Next time, will be golden, and that's all it takes.
ITA, I tip well, especially for good service, especially when out with ds and he is extra messy.

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Maybe tipping the hotel maid is a regional thing.

Servers do NOT make under minimum wage in any state I have ever lived in.
Tipping hotel staff is not a regional thing, I have traveled all over the country and the world and its common everywhere. Its an etiquette and class thing obviously.
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#167 of 173 Old 07-26-2009, 01:33 AM
 
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I
I think you have no choice but to stay home then. If you go out without your husband and don't leave a tip its rude and obnoxious to your server.


Tipping hotel staff is not a regional thing, I have traveled all over the country and the world and its common everywhere. Its an etiquette and class thing obviously.
Did I say anywhere that I don't tip at all? I don't believe I did say that. The post you quoted said that I had always heard it was 10%.

Also, are you saying that only those of a "lower class" have not heard of tipping the hotel maid? That comments seems really rude IMO. It is NOT common knowledge no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise. And so much insinuated that you are of a higher "class" than me.
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#168 of 173 Old 07-26-2009, 09:59 AM
 
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Did I say anywhere that I don't tip at all? I don't believe I did say that. The post you quoted said that I had always heard it was 10%.

Also, are you saying that only those of a "lower class" have not heard of tipping the hotel maid? That comments seems really rude IMO. It is NOT common knowledge no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise. And so much insinuated that you are of a higher "class" than me.
No, but tipping 10% unless the service is bad is obnoxious and rude to the server; even if they make minimum wage in your state.

I know class is not the PC term but from your replies I couldn't think of anything more appropriate. The hotels you stay at, the restaurants you frequent, the establishments you patronize perhaps dictate the tipping etittique rules you and the people you know are familiar with. Anyone who has ever stayed at a hotel that has valet, room service, concierge service, etc., would find out very quickly that tips are expected and the norm.
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#169 of 173 Old 07-26-2009, 01:08 PM
 
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My teenager expects me to get her a driving permit on her birthday. It doens't mean I am going too.

As for social contracts..I have never seen a copy of one.
Okay, then you've decided not to follow the norms. Or at least you choose not to in certain situations.

That's what etiquette and social rules are all about - obviously learning them is a lifelong thing and it's not like not knowing a norm or two makes anyone a bad person. But it's not that everyone has a conspiracy to make you look bad. We ALL are struggling and learning all the time. Not just because things change but because we find ourselves in new situations - travelling, meeting new people, trying new situations.

When I was growing up there were no Starbucks and now there are and they have little tip bowls. Y'know?

When you effectively say "it was 10% the last time I checked" and don't check again, you are making a choice not to be aware. That's fine. But you are choosing that.

Someone can spit on the floor of the bus and still be a loving husband or not tip and still be a kind human being... but the people who are on the bus or the waitress who wonders what she did wrong are still impacted. And to reiterate, it is fine to make that decision... we all do in various ways.

But you are making a decision to ignore the social information that is around you. Which is kind of what happened in the OP's case with her friend.

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#170 of 173 Old 07-26-2009, 01:12 PM
 
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Very interesting thread.

I must admit I am also surprised that it is expected to tip maids - I had never heard of that & we've stayed in hotels a lot in the past few years. And quite frankly I don't know we could swing it - much of the time dh is in a hotel for work & therefore work is paying for the room, but would not cover a tip. A couple of years ago he spent at least a 3rd of the year in different hotels - no way we could have afforded that much tipping out of pocket.

It is great that so many people here seem to be able to tip everyone who gives them service but that just is not viable for many of us. That said I go out of my way to be extra polite & easy for service people. When we had movers (again not something we were not paying for but dh's work was) we provided drinks & food all day - but that cost us much less than tipping all of them would have.

We've had the "how much to tip" conversations with friends here before & the consensus is to tip the tax - which here in Ontario is 14%. Dh & I tend to tip more than that but certainly have tipped less when we've received really exceptionally terrible service.
My work covers the tip -if- it's charged to the credit card at the front desk, so it's something your husband could check into. They also cover taxi and restaurant tips. It's actually one of the ways I know what's minimum standard.

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#171 of 173 Old 07-26-2009, 08:42 PM
 
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I think it is common for companies to cover tips. In my work we hire a lot of people (consultants, trainers) to come to our offices a few days. They invoice us for their expenses - we have contract with each - and we always cover tips including hotels and cab drivers as well as restaurant staff.
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#172 of 173 Old 07-27-2009, 01:16 AM
 
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I think it is common for companies to cover tips. In my work we hire a lot of people (consultants, trainers) to come to our offices a few days. They invoice us for their expenses - we have contract with each - and we always cover tips including hotels and cab drivers as well as restaurant staff.
I agree, I have worked as a consultant for several different companies and I have worked on the company side and in all cases tips were covered; from the luggage valet at the airport to the maid at the hotel to servers at restaurants.
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#173 of 173 Old 07-27-2009, 05:31 AM
 
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Okay, then you've decided not to follow the norms. Or at least you choose not to in certain situations.

That's what etiquette and social rules are all about - obviously learning them is a lifelong thing and it's not like not knowing a norm or two makes anyone a bad person. But it's not that everyone has a conspiracy to make you look bad. We ALL are struggling and learning all the time. Not just because things change but because we find ourselves in new situations - travelling, meeting new people, trying new situations.

When I was growing up there were no Starbucks and now there are and they have little tip bowls. Y'know?

When you effectively say "it was 10% the last time I checked" and don't check again, you are making a choice not to be aware. That's fine. But you are choosing that.

Someone can spit on the floor of the bus and still be a loving husband or not tip and still be a kind human being... but the people who are on the bus or the waitress who wonders what she did wrong are still impacted. And to reiterate, it is fine to make that decision... we all do in various ways.

But you are making a decision to ignore the social information that is around you. Which is kind of what happened in the OP's case with her friend.


Also, it's not like MDC has never hosted a thread about tipping before. It's a pretty regular debate, so to say 'I had no clue' when you've participated in previous threads is a bit strange.
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