Mothering's stand on AIDS denialism - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-17-2011, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I've seen this mentioned a couple of times and I vividly remember the cover of Mothering magazine featuring a very pregnant Christine Maggiore. I am interested in opening a discussion on the current ideas of whether HIV leads to AIDS and the death of Christine Maggiore and her daughter who lived to the age of 3. (Eliza Jane) 

 

Does Mothering still back the veterinarian and AIDS denialist who counters the official autopsy report on Eliza Jane or does the company have a different opinion after Christine Maggiore's somewhat recent death? 

 

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Old 06-17-2011, 02:53 PM
 
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I've been hearing a lot about this too, and I think I am confused.  How can you deny AIDS?  Isn't it obvious that it exists?  

 

Sorry to be so thick, but can you explain what you mean?


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Old 06-17-2011, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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There are numerous threads from around 2007 about this, I will see if I can find them. 

 

The idea is that HIV exists in the body but is harmless. The real cause of AIDS is lifestyle choice, especially being gay because they do drugs and it harms their immune systems. So the people who die of AIDS are really dying of harming their bodies through drug use and indiscriminate homosexual sex. 

 

I don't know the AIDS denialist reasons for Christine Maggiore's death but what I read of Eliza Jane was that she had a non-AIDS caused pneumonia and was rx'ed with an antibiotic that she had an allergic reaction to. 

 

 

I DO NOT HOLD ANY OF THE ABOVE OPINIONS. THIS IS WHAT I GATHERED FROM READING HERE.

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Old 06-17-2011, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are a couple of links from 2007 discussions I mentioned. Pull up a chair and get a cup of tea, they are long. ;) 

 

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/701919/aids-reapprisal-movement-hiv-doesn-t-cause-aids

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/719908/hiv-does-not-aids

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Old 06-17-2011, 03:07 PM
 
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I'd be very interested to hear some more about this, as well. From what I've read and seen, this whole situation is disturbing and it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth regarding MDC.


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Old 06-17-2011, 03:15 PM
 
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I remember this article, and at the time I thought it was pretty interesting to present an alternative view, at least from the standpoint of isn't it worth investigating.  But now it seems like the whole thing was just part of this revisionist thinking with an agenda.  But I haven't really heard Mothering supporting the idea that HIV does not cause AIDS, although there have been some members here who seemed to put forth that viewpoint.  Don't know if they are around anymore or not.

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Old 06-17-2011, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I know that the threads are the poster's opinions and not necessarily Mothering's ideas but I thought I read where Mothering defended those ideas. I would be very happy to be wrong. I will search out where I got that idea, if possible, and report back. 

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Old 06-17-2011, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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The title should read stance, not stand. I can't edit it. Stupid typos.

 

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Old 06-17-2011, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyway, Peggy O'Mara is on the board of Christine Maggiore's group Alive and Well. 

http://www.aliveandwell.org/html/top_bar_pages/aboutus.html

 

and she posted this review of Maggiore's book, "What if Everything You Thought You Knew About AIDS Was Wrong?"

 

 

 


"There is another way to look at HIV and AIDS! Simple, to the point, and impeccable in its scholarship."
     - Peggy O'Mara, publisher of Mothering Magazine

 

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Old 06-17-2011, 04:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lalaland42 View Post

There are numerous threads from around 2007 about this, I will see if I can find them. 

 

The idea is that HIV exists in the body but is harmless. The real cause of AIDS is lifestyle choice, especially being gay because they do drugs and it harms their immune systems. So the people who die of AIDS are really dying of harming their bodies through drug use and indiscriminate homosexual sex. 

 

I don't know the AIDS denialist reasons for Christine Maggiore's death but what I read of Eliza Jane was that she had a non-AIDS caused pneumonia and was rx'ed with an antibiotic that she had an allergic reaction to. 

 

 

I DO NOT HOLD ANY OF THE ABOVE OPINIONS. THIS IS WHAT I GATHERED FROM READING HERE.


It's all the poppers!

 

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Though, the poster that mentioned that is now claiming that AIDS is real and you can cure it by drinking industrial bleach...

 


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Old 06-17-2011, 05:15 PM
 
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Anyway, Peggy O'Mara is on the board of Christine Maggiore's group Alive and Well. 

http://www.aliveandwell.org/html/top_bar_pages/aboutus.html

 

and she posted this review of Maggiore's book, "What if Everything You Thought You Knew About AIDS Was Wrong?"

 

 

 


"There is another way to look at HIV and AIDS! Simple, to the point, and impeccable in its scholarship."
     - Peggy O'Mara, publisher of Mothering Magazine

 




Interesting.......

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Old 06-17-2011, 05:20 PM
 
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I remember the magazine issues she was featured in, as I had a sub during those years. I also remember plenty of heated debate on it here about it. Haven't kept up on the issue over the years though to have an opinion one way or the other though. 

 

Considering that there is no magazine, I'm not sure there is even an official Mothering stance, from what I remember magazine articles were submitted not solicited for publication ( not in publishing so maybe those aren't the exact right terms). 

 

Regardless I'm trying to see what the point of bringing up that old article from what the 90's is at this point in time?

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Old 06-17-2011, 06:26 PM
 
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I remember the magazine issues she was featured in, as I had a sub during those years. I also remember plenty of heated debate on it here about it. Haven't kept up on the issue over the years though to have an opinion one way or the other though. 

 

Considering that there is no magazine, I'm not sure there is even an official Mothering stance, from what I remember magazine articles were submitted not solicited for publication ( not in publishing so maybe those aren't the exact right terms). 

 

Regardless I'm trying to see what the point of bringing up that old article from what the 90's is at this point in time?


 

I'm guessing probably just because of the new ua making it so that for the first time in a very long time the issue can be brought up with actual hope that it will stay up and maybe even get an answer instead of being deleted immediately for daring to be critical or question something from Mothering.  Also because a recent discussion of AIDS and the idea that it could be cured by industrial bleach reminded people of it and that, as far as I am aware, Mothering has never published anything indicating a change of heart on the subject or that it is very likely that Christine Maggoire's daughter would still be alive and thriving today if her HIV had been diagnosed and treated appropriately... possibly even HIV free if Christine had just taken the AZT instead of painting her belly with political statements about it.  

 

I was rather shocked when just a couple years ago an editorial by Peggy O'Mara brought up AIDS and while she did not deny the HIV AIDS link, did bring up the 1998 article and still seemed to be strongly encouraging women to avoid HIV testing, avoid HIV drugs even if positive, and breastfeed even when positive, and presenting those who did as brave mothers standing up for their kids in the face of evil medicine.  In an article about informed consent, she made no mention of how medication and not feeding HIV breastmilk have been shown to be very effective in preventing HIV transmission from mother to child, though she did slam ATZ as being a horrible fate worse than HIV/AIDS on the basis of un-cited statistics and studies that I can't find and don't fit at all with the ones I can.  She also brought up Christine Maggoire briefly in the context of critisizing a TV show for telling a fictionalized version of that story that painted her in a very negative light, didn't bother to mention just how well Maggoire's choices worked out for both her daughter and herself 

 

 

 

Quote:
Parents' freedom of conscience has been demonized of late. [...] On October 28, 2008, in its fifth episode of the season, the television show Law & Order: Special Victims Unit vilified Christine Maggiore, one of the mothers featured in our September 1998 article, in which a daughter and mother both die of AIDS.

 

from  http://mothering.com/health/the-assault-on-freedom-of-conscience  

 

Apparently the problem is that art imitates life?  Though in all fairness, while her poor daughter had been dead for several years at that point, Christine herself only passed away a couple months before the date on that editorial, so it could have already been written and set for publication, too late to change it, at that point, I suppose. 

 

As a sidenote, she helpfully did cite her source for this bit on measles: 

 

Quote:
The incidence of measles cases has risen dramatically from 2007 to 2008 and is at its highest level in more than a decade. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), 63 of the 131 new cases of measles from January to July 2008 were among those unvaccinated. The majority of the cases (68), however, were among those vaccinated. 

 

Unfortunately, she apparently did not pay close attention to her source.  The report only gives vaccination status for for the 123 US citizens, not the other 8 cases which were among visitors.  The 63 unvaccinated were just those who avoided vaccines for religious or philosophical reasons.  There were also other cases in infants too young to have been vaccinated, those who were delaying vaccines, and those were unvaccinated for unknown reason, as well as fifteen who were of unknown vacciantion status.  There were only 11 out of 123 cases in US citizens who were known to have been vaccinated with at least one dose of the vaccine, not 68.  The vast majority of measles cases were among the unvaccinated.  

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5733a1.htm

 

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and Quote:

 

"There is another way to look at HIV and AIDS! Simple, to the point, and impeccable in its scholarship."
     - Peggy O'Mara, publisher of Mothering Magazine 

 

 

 

Quote:

"Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves operates on the radical premise that neither child nor parent must dominate. Aldort offers specific suggestions for relinquishing control in favor of authenticity. Lots of help for those who want to give up scolding, threatening and punishing. Her SALVE "formula" alone is worth the price of the book."
—Peggy O'Mara, Mothering Magazine

 

 

I think I am seeing a trend here-supporting voodoo science and frauds in the name of being alternative I guess.

 

 

Quote:

Regardless I'm trying to see what the point of bringing up that old article from what the 90's is at this point in time? 

 

 

 

Because it is still accepted here and needs to be called out for the bullsh&t it is.

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Old 06-17-2011, 06:54 PM
 
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I am also interested in an updated discussion. I was an HIV/AIDS educator for Planned Parenthood at the time those articles were written (IIRC it was not just one cover article, but a whole issue dedicated to "alternate" views on HIV/AIDS). I thought there were some good questions raised regarding how little we knew about the link at that time. In the decade since, we know more and all the questions I had have now been explained by science.

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Old 06-17-2011, 07:26 PM
 
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I'm sure there are lots of interesting threads in Health & Healing about a causal relationship between HIV & AIDS. I'd love to see an updated thread in there detailing peer reviewed research on the subject actually since it's been a long time since I've reviewed any of that information. I'm not certain that speculating about the causation of a specific mother & child's death is something I care to dignify though.

I certainly cannot speak to whether Mothering has an official stance on the issue, but it seems to me that since "Mothering.com is the website of natural family living and advocates natural solutions to parenting challenges. We host discussion of ... alternative and complementary home remedies, informed consent and many other topics from a natural point of view," a patient's right to self determination would be supported, regardless of the specific diagnosis. Or I guess you just meant you were wondering how the MDC membership in general felt about the "movement"?
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:50 PM
 
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I think I am seeing a trend here-supporting voodoo science and frauds in the name of being alternative I guess.

Not about the OP but I'm curious what this is all about. For some reason I lost the quote that this quote seemed to be referring to. It was a quote from Peggy O'Mara commenting on the book, Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves by Naomi Aldort. I'm wondering how this book is voodoo science or a fraud. I have read the book and have used the ideas with my children and it works for us.

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Old 06-17-2011, 08:01 PM
 
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I'm sure there are lots of interesting threads in Health & Healing about a causal relationship between HIV & AIDS. I'd love to see an updated thread in there detailing peer reviewed research on the subject actually since it's been a long time since I've reviewed any of that information. I'm not certain that speculating about the causation of a specific mother & child's death is something I care to dignify though.

I certainly cannot speak to whether Mothering has an official stance on the issue, but it seems to me that since "Mothering.com is the website of natural family living and advocates natural solutions to parenting challenges. We host discussion of ... alternative and complementary home remedies, informed consent and many other topics from a natural point of view," a patient's right to self determination would be supported, regardless of the specific diagnosis. Or I guess you just meant you were wondering how the MDC membership in general felt about the "movement"?



It was more that the case of Christine Maggiore was held up as a model of success to beat HIV/AIDS when in fact, she and her daughter died early deaths. Directly due to lack of treatment. Furthermore, there was no speculation- the only person to question the autopsy was a veterinarian unqualified to do so. The science was irrefutable, making the denial of the cause of death a near cover-up. There is a difference between discussion of alternative/complementary home remedies and endorsing obvious fraud. Especially in order to influence others.

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Old 06-17-2011, 08:04 PM
 
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I think I am seeing a trend here-supporting voodoo science and frauds in the name of being alternative I guess.



Not about the OP but I'm curious what this is all about. For some reason I lost the quote that this quote seemed to be referring to. It was a quote from Peggy O'Mara commenting on the book, Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves by Naomi Aldort. I'm wondering how this book is voodoo science or a fraud. I have read the book and have used the ideas with my children and it works for us.



Naomi Aldort claimed to have had a PhD and countless people all over the Internet have tried to find out where she got it to no avail. She never disclosed where she got it and finally, she has dropped that claim from her own web site. She justified charging people $150 an hour under the claim that she had qualifications she does not have. Claiming a doctorate you do not have is a very serious form of fraud.

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Old 06-17-2011, 08:14 PM
 
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Naomi Aldort claimed to have had a PhD and countless people all over the Internet have tried to find out where she got it to no avail. She never disclosed where she got it and finally, she has dropped that claim from her own web site. She justified charging people $150 an hour under the claim that she had qualifications she does not have. Claiming a doctorate you do not have is a very serious form of fraud.


Oh, I didn't know anything about that. Yes, that would be fraud. However, I don't see how it makes the ideas in her book unworthy. You don't need a PhD to have good ideas on different ways of approaching situations, especially if the approaches result in more peace.

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Quote:
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Naomi Aldort claimed to have had a PhD and countless people all over the Internet have tried to find out where she got it to no avail. She never disclosed where she got it and finally, she has dropped that claim from her own web site. She justified charging people $150 an hour under the claim that she had qualifications she does not have. Claiming a doctorate you do not have is a very serious form of fraud.




Oh, I didn't know anything about that. Yes, that would be fraud. However, I don't see how it makes the ideas in her book unworthy. You don't need a PhD to have good ideas on different ways of approaching situations, especially if the approaches result in more peace.



Well, Naomi Aldort felt the need to claim a PhD to sell her book and charge people hundreds of dollars for her advice.

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 I'm not certain that speculating about the causation of a specific mother & child's death is something I care to dignify though.
 


There's nothing speculative about it, tho.

 

They died of AIDS.

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There's nothing speculative about it, tho.

 

They died of AIDS.




Exactly. Since they were held up as a triumph of alternative medicine, it's important that the truth be shared in case anyone believes they should follow their example.

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Quote:

Oh, I didn't know anything about that. Yes, that would be fraud. However, I don't see how it makes the ideas in her book unworthy. You don't need a PhD to have good ideas on different ways of approaching situations, especially if the approaches result in more peace.

 

 

Well her book is a horrible mishmash of half formulated ideas and vague mumbojumbo but I suppose to be fair that is my opinion. However, why would you fork over a dime to someone who consciously lied about their education, and when asked to participate here in the Ask the expert forums used it as her own personal money machine?

 

My questions about AIDS denialism is a fair one. I never knew about Peggy O'Mara's AIDS stuff until the bleach cures AIDS thread. I dug deeper and did not like what I found.

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Old 06-17-2011, 08:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesiac View Post

I'm sure there are lots of interesting threads in Health & Healing about a causal relationship between HIV & AIDS. I'd love to see an updated thread in there detailing peer reviewed research on the subject actually since it's been a long time since I've reviewed any of that information. I'm not certain that speculating about the causation of a specific mother & child's death is something I care to dignify though.

I certainly cannot speak to whether Mothering has an official stance on the issue, but it seems to me that since "Mothering.com is the website of natural family living and advocates natural solutions to parenting challenges. We host discussion of ... alternative and complementary home remedies, informed consent and many other topics from a natural point of view," a patient's right to self determination would be supported, regardless of the specific diagnosis. Or I guess you just meant you were wondering how the MDC membership in general felt about the "movement"?


I think Mothering does have an official stance, considering that Peggy O'Mara is a board member of Maggiore's AIDS denialist organization, Alive and Well. Oh, the irony. http://www.aliveandwell.org/

 

On an unrelated note, I was extremely disappointed to learn that Gavin de Becker (author of The Gift of Fear) is also on the board shy.gif

 


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Old 06-17-2011, 09:08 PM
 
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Just out of curiosity do you guys think that you are really being slick or something and that it's not blatantly obvious that this is just a continuation of the drama from the previous threads? Because this tactic is nothing new. Those of us that have been around a long time have seen it all play out before. You need new material really. Bringing up an article from almost 15 years ago so you get back on the smear campaign is really childish. And it isn't going to get you anything in the long run. Unless your only motivation is to be the topic of conversation on MDC whiner boards. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Old 06-17-2011, 09:17 PM
 
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There's nothing speculative about it, tho.

 

They died of AIDS.


The speculation would be on my part since I am not familiar with all the details of the situation. In any case, criticism of a patient's right to self determination is not something I care to dignify.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post

Just out of curiosity do you guys think that you are really being slick or something and that it's not blatantly obvious that this is just a continuation of the drama from the previous threads? Because this tactic is nothing new. Those of us that have been around a long time have seen it all play out before. You need new material really. Bringing up an article from almost 15 years ago so you get back on the smear campaign is really childish. And it isn't going to get you anything in the long run. Unless your only motivation is to be the topic of conversation on MDC whiner boards. 

 

 

 

 

 


Did Mothering/Peggy change her/their/its mind about AIDS denialism 15 years ago?

 

And can you link me to any threads where this issue has "played out" before here?

 

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Old 06-17-2011, 09:23 PM
 
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I've never heard of this before this thread, so I am obviously no expert on the case. I totally believe that adults have the right to decide on what treatments they do or do not want, but I think it is really sad if medical care was denied to a baby. Am I understanding that correctly? And Mothering supported that? I would've thought a parent would be court ordered to treat the baby. It seems like I am totally lost in threads all over today though!

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Old 06-17-2011, 09:26 PM
 
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Quote:
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There's nothing speculative about it, tho.

 

They died of AIDS.




The speculation would be on my part since I am not familiar with all the details of the situation. In any case, criticism of a patient's right to self determination is not something I care to dignify.


I'm all about patient autonomy, too. But that's not what's being criticized. It's Mothering's advocacy of HIV/AIDS denialism that's being criticized.

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