What do you think about Duggar Family announcement that they are expecting their 20th child? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 11:48 AM
 
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Havent read the posts yet.

Im happy  that a woman can get pregnant on her own at age 45. Good for her.

Im intrigued by someone who has so much experience in pregnancy and childbirth, under ostensibly ideal nutritional conditions. I would love to hear more from her in particular.  I would like Michelle Duggar to write a book uniquely on that subject. Science could learn plenty from her example, about what a womans body is capable of. Can a uterus really grow and birth a baby 20 times, or would that be stretching  the muscle to its limit? 20 has to be getting towards the upper limit.

 

Having said that, i would never want 20 children myself, because i dont think i could parent them effectively. Its too many. Who wants to be  parent to a whole classroom of kids?  I dont care how much help you get, kids want their parents attention, and in particular their mothers.  So definitely far from ideal as far as that is concerned.

 

I love mothering, but i am glad i have done other things, and look forward again to doing other things. How could there be time for anything else at all if you are a mother of 20?  I think its important to have some kind of identity outside of being a parent because it is all so consuming. And again, i feel sorry for the kids who cant possibly get the kind or parental attention they might need. However, they would also have certain advantages over  those of us with smaller families, always having playmates, having a huge extended family would be comforting.

 

I dont have a strong emotional reaction to it though. And i only paid attention because the headlines said she was 45. Im 44, so i relate  to that.

 

 

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#62 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:03 PM
 
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 r choice.)

 

I don't see that the buddy system is necessarily awful - one does not have to be an adult to help to tie the shoes, or to wipe a nose. A hundred years ago, mothers relied on older kids' help, too. And where does one draw the line, exactly - 1:2 for Mom:Kid ratio is ok, 1:6 is sort of ok, 1:12 is illegal?


 

Im uncomfortable with giving children tasks that arent in their best interest. Helping with the baby a little yes, helping out a little here and there yes leanring new tasks that they are excited to learn about, yes,  learning responsibility through cleaning up after themselves (with help), ok. But a fully defined system which depends upon the work and responsibility of an underage person, who is not legally capable of consent, no. Thats exploitation to me.

 

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#63 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:13 PM
 
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I don't know how far the buddy system goes - I haven't seen the show though. If an older daughter is an unpaid fulltime nanny, then that is bad. Do boys participate, too?

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#64 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:16 PM
 
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I would like Michelle Duggar to write a book uniquely on that subject. Science could learn plenty from her example, about what a womans body is capable of. Can a uterus really grow and birth a baby 20 times, or would that be stretching  the muscle to its limit? 20 has to be getting towards the upper limit.

 

56 kids is the world record.

 

So that uterus could do 36 more, it's the ovaries that dropped the ball.  (Thank you, I'll be here all week.)

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#65 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:18 PM
 
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56 kids is the world record.

 

So that uterus could do 36 more, it's the ovaries that dropped the ball.  (Thank you, I'll be here all week.)


That mother had mostly multiple pregnancies, didn't she?

 


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#66 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:19 PM
 
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I don't know how far the buddy system goes - I haven't seen the show though. If an older daughter is an unpaid fulltime nanny, then that is bad. Do boys participate, too?



Yes.  It is my understanding that when each baby is born, they get an older sibling "buddy".  So basically the older kids are raising the younger ones.


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#67 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:22 PM
 
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 Woh!!! Even if they were multiples!!! Where did that happen??

 


 

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56 kids is the world record.

 

So that uterus could do 36 more, it's the ovaries that dropped the ball.  (Thank you, I'll be here all week.)



Have read posts now-mmm, well predicably, i dont approve of their parenting if its anything like what pps have described, and nor do i approve of the premature weaning.  Im all for child led weaning. And if you want to get religious about it, i believe that is what Gd intended. 

 

 

But hey, im on mdc so what would you expect?

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#68 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:31 PM
 
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Wow, I was wrong. It's 69 babies!

 

"She gave birth to a total of 69 children; however, few other details are known of her life, such as her date of birth or death. She gave birth to 16 pairs of twins, 7 sets of triplets and 4 sets of quadruplets between 1725 and 1765, in a total of 27 births. 67 of the 69 children born are said to have survived infancy."

 

Now, the last phrase is where I start to doubt the credibility. In 1765?

 

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#69 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:35 PM
 
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Read some, but not all of the replies.

 

My feelings are on one hand- it's her body, her family, their choice to make- NOT my business. But on the other hand....Josie almost died. And from what I understand, Michelle had some pretty serious complications herself. She has 19 kids now. She has a responsibility to those kids to not go putting herself in possibly dangerous situations. That may or may not include intentionally getting pregnant again. If they did it, knowing that it could be dangerous for her? I think that's negligent given their circumstances.


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#70 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:43 PM
 
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Wow, I was wrong. It's 69 babies!

 

"She gave birth to a total of 69 children; however, few other details are known of her life, such as her date of birth or death. She gave birth to 16 pairs of twins, 7 sets of triplets and 4 sets of quadruplets between 1725 and 1765, in a total of 27 births. 67 of the 69 children born are said to have survived infancy."

 

Now, the last phrase is where I start to doubt the credibility. In 1765?

 


That doesn't sound unbelievable to me. Statistically unlikely? Sure. But, having that many babies - or even that many term pregnancies - is statistically unlikely to start with. Even a long time ago, the percentage of children that survived varied widely from family to family and circumstance to circumstance.

 

The highest I'd heard was...think it was 54? Maybe 45? We read an article about the mom when I was in 6th grade. She lived somewhere in South America, and had had several sets of multiples, but a surprising number of singletons, as well.

 


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#71 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:51 PM
 
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I actually like a lot of Reality TV (though not so much the Duggars b/c they lack all the drama). But I know it's not realistic, and a lot is scripted.

That said, I do think it's kinda icky to have the kids all on display like that for a profit. I do wonder if they really love the attention (like the Gosselin kids seem to).

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#72 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 12:53 PM
 
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69 babies!? How the heck is that even physically possible (and dang, I mix up my 4 kids' names all the time, can't imagine that many offspring)?!

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#73 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 01:03 PM
 
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69 babies!? How the heck is that even physically possible (and dang, I mix up my 4 kids' names all the time, can't imagine that many offspring)?!


By the time the last was born, the mom would have also had a bunch of grandchildren. In her case, "family matriarch" is more like "head of state"!

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#74 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 01:04 PM
 
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Im intrigued by someone who has so much experience in pregnancy and childbirth, under ostensibly ideal nutritional conditions.

 


 

What do you mean? I don't know a lot about how they eat, but "tater tot casserole" doesn't look like ideal nutrition to me...

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#75 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 01:45 PM
 
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I think our food is ideal as compared to a couple of centuries ago - draught, floods, famines, cattle disease epidemics... 17th century was tough.

 

Even in the 20th century: my grandmother lived for a while on two potatoes a day, nothing else.

 

Tater tots casseroles are LUXURY!

 

 

 

 

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#76 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 02:20 PM
 
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Some women lactate normally and get their period in a couple of months after giving birth. It's not unusual. Happened to my mom.



I nursed DD every 1-3 hours, and as soon as she displayed early hunger cues. I got my period at 6 weeks post partum. The typical spacing per the research I have looked at shows that 18 months is pretty typical if you're nursing and not using any form of birth control, natural or not. That makes sense if the baby is starting solids somewhere between 6-9 months, which reduces the number of feeds some. This time the births will be about 2.5 years apart.

Personally, they seem like a nice family with well-adjusted kids. Most parents don't actually spend much time at all with their teens - maybe a minute or two a day. Sad, but true. I know I didn't get much more than that in terms of actual conversation. I know that the child rearing by teens seems rough, too. If you think about it, though, it happens a lot when children are spaced out and parents have teens and little ones. My own sister helped take care of my little sister and I while my mom had breast cancer, and then later while she was finishing college. She's a perfectly well-adjusted adult.

I do feel some concern about Michelle's health with her age and medical history, though. If it were me, I'd probably stop to ensure that I didn't put my children at risk of not having a mom. It sounds like they may be delivering a few weeks early this time as a preventive measure. I hope that she and baby are healthy and stay healthy. I couldn't imagine going through that again...Josie was only 25 weeks when she was born.

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#77 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 02:22 PM
 
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Maybe luxury as in, tastier than plain old potatoes - I've never met a tater tot, let alone a casseroled one, so I couldn't say. But more nutritious? Wouldn't they be all dehydrated-reconstituted-additives-vegetable-oil-preservatives... y?

 

I come from a slightly TF perspective, which puts a HUGE emphasis on prenatal nutrition; according to their teachings at least, even if Michelle was eating staggeringly good food - live, fermented foods, no sugar, lots of good fats, everything as nutrient-dense as possible - she wouldn't have time between babies to build up her own levels of nutrition to decent levels, especially while breastfeeding. Isn't it meant to take a woman's body two years to return to pre-pregnancy calcium levels and general health? Something like that...

 

I've heard of the woman who had 69 babies; I think it was in a World Records book when I was a kid. Boggles the mind....

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#78 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 02:25 PM
 
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My beliefs are fairly different than theirs, but I have to say that news made me smile.  I really truly believe to each their own.  I definitely was not expecting to read this news though, a healthy naturally occurring pregnancy at 45 is pretty rare!  My mother and father had an accidental oops when my mother was 45, but she lost the baby at 3 months due to fibroids.


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#79 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 02:35 PM
 
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Piping in here,  I went to school with a family of over 20.  We lost count really.  However most of the kids moved away as fast as they could and don't talk to their parents or siblings anymore.  A lot of them were actually pretty angry about the whole thing.  I think there are 8 school aged kids left at the house.  But every situation is different.  I once asked their father what made them want such a large family and he said both he and his wife were only children and felt the need to fill their house.  To each their own.  However I doubt it has turned out they way they hoped. 

 

Hey theres always someone to play with at that house!

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#80 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 02:40 PM
 
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Maybe luxury as in, tastier than plain old potatoes - I've never met a tater tot, let alone a casseroled one, so I couldn't say. But more nutritious? Wouldn't they be all dehydrated-reconstituted-additives-vegetable-oil-preservatives... y?

I come from a slightly TF perspective, which puts a HUGE emphasis on prenatal nutrition; according to their teachings at least, even if Michelle was eating staggeringly good food - live, fermented foods, no sugar, lots of good fats, everything as nutrient-dense as possible - she wouldn't have time between babies to build up her own levels of nutrition to decent levels, especially while breastfeeding. Isn't it meant to take a woman's body two years to return to pre-pregnancy calcium levels and general health? Something like that...

i was wondering about nutrition, as well. My MIL always has told stories of her aunt that had 10 or so kids back to back, and suffered from horrible osteoporosis when she was old. Your body does a little bit better job at getting nutrients when you're pregnant or nursing, but still. They are big on the Bradley birthing method, so I wonder if she does something like the Brewer diet. She'd be eating separately from the kids, because what they have on the show doesn't seem all that nutritious. This is a different situation, but after I had hyperemesis, it took a couple years to get back to normal with my nutritional stores. It took me a year or so to find a doctor that would help me, and then another year to treat the deficiencies with diet, supplements, and injections of certain vitamins. I'd think that after spending her entire adult life pregnant or nursing, she would likely have some nutritional issues even with a stellar diet.
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#81 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 02:51 PM
 
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Family size and dynamic, etc. is none of my business as long as it isn't being thrust in my face, then it becomes my business by default and unfortunately I form an opinion.  For the last week, every news site has featured this and for the past few years, it was rare to walk into a drug store without seeing the Duggars' photo on a cover of a magazine.  I don't watch their show, however.  The public display is a little off-putting for me and it is hard to ignore.

 

My only question regarding them is what they use as discipline (I think someone up thread asked this too).  I hear lots and lots of people commenting positively on them and how well behaved their kids are, but after reading various things about the Pearls and their books/publications, it worries me that Pearl-like discipline is perceived by people to be good because it is "effective" and has a religious basis.  Even the now adult Pearl children swear by the effectiveness of physically hitting babies and children and how happy their childhood was despite, and I'm going to be upfront here and say, what I consider abuse.  I don't know if the Duggars subscribe to this philosophy or not, but there seems to be a lot of similarities in both families' theologies and we don't really know what is going on after the camera crews pack up.  

 

Sorry to be so negative but that is my skeptical view.  I hope they prove me wrong.


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Maybe luxury as in, tastier than plain old potatoes - I've never met a tater tot, let alone a casseroled one, so I couldn't say. But more nutritious? Wouldn't they be all dehydrated-reconstituted-additives-vegetable-oil-preservatives... y?

 



You're lucky. They're disgusting. I'm going to look at the ingredients next time at the store, because I'm curious now. They didn't taste anything like potatoes to me...but it's been a LONG time since I've had one.


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#83 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 04:13 PM
 
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That doesn't sound unbelievable to me. Statistically unlikely? Sure. But, having that many babies - or even that many term pregnancies - is statistically unlikely to start with. Even a long time ago, the percentage of children that survived varied widely from family to family and circumstance to circumstance.


confused.gif   I don't think the survival rate of quads varied widely from family to family or circumstance to circumstance in the 1700s.   

 

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#84 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 06:16 PM
 
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You're lucky. They're disgusting. I'm going to look at the ingredients next time at the store, because I'm curious now. They didn't taste anything like potatoes to me...but it's been a LONG time since I've had one.



I goggled it. Tater Tots consist of:

 

Ingredients List

POTATOES, VEGETABLE OIL (SUNFLOWER, COTTONSEED, SOYBEAN, AND/OR CANOLA), SALT, YELLOW CORN FLOUR, ONIONS, DEXTROSE, DISODIUM DIHYDROGEN PYROPHOSPHATE, NATURAL FLAVORING.

 

 

(sorry for the all caps, but I cut and paste)

 

And then I found the recipe for the casserole on the Dugger web site

 

Duggar's Tater Tot Casserole
ShareThis
2 lb ground turkey cooked, seasoned, drained
3 2lb bags tater tots 
2 cans cream of mushroom
2 cans evaporated milk
2 cans cream of chicken
Brown meat & place in large cass. dish.
Cover with tater tots. Mix soup & milk together.
Pour over top. Bake at 350 for 1 Hour.
(One of Daddy’s Favorites!) Makes 2- 9”X13” pans
 

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#85 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 06:24 PM
 
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That sounds vile, and I eat a lot more junk than most on MDC.

 

I had amazing tater tots at a McMenamin's restaurant in Portland last year - they were nice and crispy with Cajun seasoning, with ranch on the side.


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#86 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 06:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

You're lucky. They're disgusting. I'm going to look at the ingredients next time at the store, because I'm curious now. They didn't taste anything like potatoes to me...but it's been a LONG time since I've had one.


Sorry, this is a shameless thread hijack, but I couldn't resist...

 

 

Randy: Napoleon, give me some of your tots.
Napoleon: No, go find your own.
Randy: Come on. Give me some of your tots.
Napoleon: No. I'm freakin' starved. I didn't get to eat anything today.
[Randy kicks Napoleon's pants pocket, ruining the tater tots]
Napoleon: Ugh. Gross. Freakin' idiot!
 
Hahahaha, I love that movie. And I do like tater tots... 

 


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#87 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 07:00 PM
 
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That sounds vile, and I eat a lot more junk than most on MDC.

 

Ditto. I don't like tater tots, anyway - but I saw that recipe for the casserole a couple years ago, and just thought, "what a waste of ground turkey". Of course, I also don't like mushrooms, so the cream of mushroom soup thing just cranks the gross factor for me.

 

I had amazing tater tots at a McMenamin's restaurant in Portland last year - they were nice and crispy with Cajun seasoning, with ranch on the side.

 

Hmm...don't think I'm ever going to be a tater tot fan, but if I had to eat them, that doesn't sound awful.



 


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#88 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 07:04 PM
 
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confused.gif   I don't think the survival rate of quads varied widely from family to family or circumstance to circumstance in the 1700s.   

 



I don't think quads have ever been common enough for my comment about "varying wildly" to even have much meaning with respect to the quads, really. But, I'm sure there were cases of all of them surviving, even back then. Depending how much support the mom had, and whether she had a wet nurse (or two), whether through hire or friends/relatives, and what her particular situation was with respect to shelter and food....sure, I can see it happening.


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#89 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 07:29 PM
 
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That casserole sounds kind of gross...and not nutritious. No wonder Jim Bob is always complaining about gaining weight on the show.

Wife to DH, mama to bikenew.gif DD (7) ribboncesarean.gif, babyf.gif DS born 3/12 ribboncesarean.gif, and have had five early losses. angel1.gif
I have Stiff Person Syndrome and my other car is a candy apple red Rascal. Feel free to ask me about it. wheelchair.gif
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#90 of 440 Old 11-10-2011, 08:41 PM
 
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they make tator tot cassarole at the daycare i work at, and its strangely addictive, lol.. all gooey and cheesey and yum, lol, even though i know its full of crap.

congrats to them on the new babe. i hope the everyone ends up healthy and happy smile.gif
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*~*Ashley*~* newly single mama to Tristan 10/01/2007
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