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#121 of 133 Old 07-29-2012, 06:14 PM
 
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I am not disagreeing with Storm Bride, I am just saying my experience is different and not as extreme. I agree it could cause everything you mentioned. But again that dosent mean my kids will have the same issues in school and yes, if there was an extreme situation we would take measures as said to remove etc. I was fortunate enough to handle it myself. I do also know of extreme situations growing up with this in our area and in our area as of present time. I have never had the extremes of this type of bullying as an adult mainly because I am not a good target as people attempting to bully me have found out. Bullies always have targets which is terrible.  

This discussion brings home to me the point that in some things we do there is no sweeping right or wrong (although there may be right and wrong for individual children).  We weigh the evidence and our experience and make our decisions.

 

Are you wrong to teach them to stand up to bullies?  Maybe - or maybe not.

Am I  wrong to get my children away from real bullying?  Maybe - maybe not.

 

Of course, many of us bring our own baggage to issues - and sorting out when it is helpful experience versus baggage that needs to be let go is very tricky.  

 

I wrote several pages back that I believe my mother was mistaken to bring junk food into the house and then dole it out piecemeal - that it created a sensation of always wanting junk food.  My kids can eat the junk food as fast as they want and when it is gone it is gone.  OTOH, I read, quite regularly, of mothers on MDC who do dole out junk food - usually because they are trying to teach moderation.  Am I wrong?  Are they?

 

In many of the instances on this thread the parents clearly made mistakes - mistakes anyone can see, and anyone should have known were wrong.

 

In other instances, I suspect there is no right or wrong, only perception and hindsight.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#122 of 133 Old 07-29-2012, 06:36 PM
 
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I dole out junk food. bag.gif

 

I believe there are no sweeping generalizations about bullying. I believe that whereas there might be patterns, each situation is somewhat unique and it's hard to understand a situation when you aren't the one in it.

 

I teach my kids that it is very wrong to be the first person to hit. Hitting other people is mean and cruel. But if someone hits you first, beat the shit out of them and do it fast. I teach that because that is how I have survived my life. I don't hit first. But I do hit last.

 

The other day I was on our local public transit system and I was wearing a somewhat socially unacceptable shirt (rope slut) because I was on my way to work (it's an adult-only kinky coffee shop). I had a hoodie on over it and most of the shirt was obscured. I was also wearing a dog choke chain with a padlock around my neck. I got up at one point so that an elderly person could have my seat. When I passed two elderly (like 50's or 60's) Latina women who were very dressed up I heard the conversation change. "Oh my god. Look at that one. Ew. I think it's a woman. How disgusting. How can trash like that stand to be seen in public."

 

Me being me I looked right at her. I'm sure I looked extremely hostile. I said, "Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?" She turned beet red and then looked down. She stopped commenting.

 

Everyone has different approaches to confrontation. I think that the best way to handle bullies is to face them directly and let them know you aren't scared. If they smell fear they get stronger. Not everyone works the same way though.

 

How does this play in with mistakes my parents made? Well, no one taught me to defend myself. They just heaped additional abuse on me. They did not teach me survival skills. I had to learn them on my own. I had to figure out how to get people to stop beating the shit out of me. I learned (after a lot of pain) that the only way to make people leave me alone was to be far meaner than them.

 

It makes me wonder what it is I should be teaching my kids.


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#123 of 133 Old 07-29-2012, 06:37 PM
 
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Oh, on the relationships with parents now. I was close to my mother until she passed away, but there were things I just didn't discuss with her. She had some issues of her own related to hoarding and eating disorders, and it was like a brick wall working on those, so I had to just keep "stuff" from spilling over to my house. But we talked often and knew a great deal about one another. I am not as close to my dad, but the relationship is warm and loving. We spend a fair amount of time together. 


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#124 of 133 Old 07-29-2012, 06:59 PM
 
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The other day I was on our local public transit system and I was wearing a somewhat socially unacceptable shirt (rope slut) because I was on my way to work (it's an adult-only kinky coffee shop). I had a hoodie on over it and most of the shirt was obscured. I was also wearing a dog choke chain with a padlock around my neck. I got up at one point so that an elderly person could have my seat. When I passed two elderly (like 50's or 60's) Latina women who were very dressed up I heard the conversation change. "Oh my god. Look at that one. Ew. I think it's a woman. How disgusting. How can trash like that stand to be seen in public."

 

Me being me I looked right at her. I'm sure I looked extremely hostile. I said, "Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?" She turned beet red and then looked down. She stopped commenting.

 

 

You're good!  I always think of great comebacks after the person has left.  Sigh...

I don't consider the people on the train bullies though - just gossipy, mean-mouthed strangers.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#125 of 133 Old 07-29-2012, 07:26 PM
 
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I wrote several pages back that I believe my mother was mistaken to bring junk food into the house and then dole it out piecemeal - that it created a sensation of always wanting junk food.  My kids can eat the junk food as fast as they want and when it is gone it is gone.  OTOH, I read, quite regularly, of mothers on MDC who do dole out junk food - usually because they are trying to teach moderation.  Am I wrong?  Are they?

 

 

This one's a good example, imo, because there is no right and wrong. Doling out worked really well with ds1. He developed a strong ability to delay gratification, and he also really wrapped his head around the idea that what we generally call "junk food" is a sometimes thing, not a regular thing. It works pretty well with dd1, too.

 

It's been an unmitigated disaster with ds2. He's the kid who will sneak into the pantry/cupboard as soon as your back is turned, grab his sibling's cookie while their back is turned, etc. We basically don't ever have it in the house now. On the rare occasions when we do, bit's pretty much "eat it until it's gone", becuase otherwise ds2 will get half or more, and the rest of the family will split the remainder 4-5 ways (depending whether ds1 is home or not). Different kids, different strategies.


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#126 of 133 Old 07-29-2012, 07:30 PM
 
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Everyone has different approaches to confrontation. I think that the best way to handle bullies is to face them directly and let them know you aren't scared. If they smell fear they get stronger. Not everyone works the same way though.

 

 

I think this is the best approach, generally. The problem is that sometimes the victim is scared. There's no way to teach a person not to be scared, and some people are better than others at hiding their feelings, yk? In all honesty, I think ds1's acting ability is one of the reasons he never got bullied. (The other big one is that his oddities, with the possible exception of his long hair, were well within the bounds of what the other kids called "normal".)


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#127 of 133 Old 07-30-2012, 08:17 AM
 
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I think this is the best approach, generally. The problem is that sometimes the victim is scared. There's no way to teach a person not to be scared, and some people are better than others at hiding their feelings, yk? In all honesty, I think ds1's acting ability is one of the reasons he never got bullied. (The other big one is that his oddities, with the possible exception of his long hair, were well within the bounds of what the other kids called "normal".)

 I think everyone is scared at some point or another. When I have confronted people/bullies etc I was scared out of my mind. But I was more scared of what would happen if I didnt do what I did. We are making major changes in our life right now. Scared? You bet!!! Excited? That much more though. Scared is a normal human trait, so teaching someone how to work with the scared feeling and deal with it is very important. That in itself would be the end all if someone can teach everyone that. I guess this is what makes the world go around....


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#128 of 133 Old 07-30-2012, 10:54 AM
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I dole out junk food. bag.gif

 

 

 

Me, too.  But I sometimes dole out healthy food, too, depending on what it is.  As much as my kids would love to eat the entire bag of organic cherries at one sitting, that would result in......1) diarrhea, and 2) no cherries tomorrow.


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#129 of 133 Old 07-30-2012, 10:55 AM
 
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 I think everyone is scared at some point or another. When I have confronted people/bullies etc I was scared out of my mind. But I was more scared of what would happen if I didnt do what I did. We are making major changes in our life right now. Scared? You bet!!! Excited? That much more though. Scared is a normal human trait, so teaching someone how to work with the scared feeling and deal with it is very important. That in itself would be the end all if someone can teach everyone that. I guess this is what makes the world go around....

 

Working with the scared feeling is one thing. I was terrified of learning to drive, but I did it. I was terrified of choir (still am, sometimes, and I've been there six years, off and on), but I did/do it, anyway. I was terrified of attending a local homelearning group, but i did it, anyway (and, 3.5 years later, it's changed a lot, and I'm the Treasurer!).

 

The thing is, though...the car doesn't swerve into a curb when it knows I'm scared. The choir members and homelearners don't go for the jugular when they sense fear. Bullies are different. Facing down a bully isn't even so much about working with the fear, as it's about not showing the fear. Some people really just can't do that. (It doesn't always work, anyway. I know from conversations at grad reunions that almost nobody in my grad class ever figured out that I was scared a lot...and none of them knew I lived in constant terror of social situations, or that I was suicidal for most of five years. But, I still got bullied.)

 

Scared and excited...it seems to be a common combo. I don't have it in my wiring. If I'm scared, I'm scared. Fear isn't exciting - just scary. I can't be excited and scared at the same time.


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#130 of 133 Old 07-30-2012, 12:34 PM
 
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Me, too.  But I sometimes dole out healthy food, too, depending on what it is.  As much as my kids would love to eat the entire bag of organic cherries at one sitting, that would result in......1) diarrhea, and 2) no cherries tomorrow.

 My dd learned that lesson the hard way.

 

We do the occasional junk food and then they get over until the next craving.


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#131 of 133 Old 07-30-2012, 01:43 PM
 
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I think this is the best approach, generally. The problem is that sometimes the victim is scared. There's no way to teach a person not to be scared, and some people are better than others at hiding their feelings, yk? In all honesty, I think ds1's acting ability is one of the reasons he never got bullied. (The other big one is that his oddities, with the possible exception of his long hair, were well within the bounds of what the other kids called "normal".)

 

Well, ok I shake like a leaf after it is over no matter how minor the confrontation is. I'm scared shitless. I have a fortune cookie paper on my mirror that says, "Bravery is the capacity to continue to perform correctly despite being scared to death." I kind of live by that. I'm scared pretty much all the time. I feel scared of people in pretty much all situations.


My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#132 of 133 Old 07-30-2012, 02:20 PM
 
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Me, too.  But I sometimes dole out healthy food, too, depending on what it is.  As much as my kids would love to eat the entire bag of organic cherries at one sitting, that would result in......1) diarrhea, and 2) no cherries tomorrow.

 

Oh, heck yeah! I have to set more limits on fruit than I do on candy or cookies. DS2 would eat everything, and not leave any for anybody else!


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#133 of 133 Old 08-01-2012, 08:07 AM
 
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Funny, the CSA has a huge bag of organic cherries in it. Maybe I should test this out today.......

 

If DH was home, it would be a huge competition between him and dd eating the whole bag of these.


"The true joy of life is the trip. The station is only a dream. It constantly out distances us."
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