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#31 of 48 Old 11-24-2012, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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 hope I can say this without sounding like I'm disparaging what Storm Bride has described as her sincere pleasure in searching for, buying and giving Christmas gifts to her loved ones.  Because I'm not.  I'm sincerely thrilled to have, just today, spent more than $100 on a LEGO Lord of the Rings kit for ds. I'm excited to give it to him, I'm excited to sit with him and help put it together. This will be so much fun!

 

But- there are soooo many examples of 'traditions' that are manufactured by marketing and advertising, that have the ring of comfy, heart-felt motivation.  That amazingly enough require people to spend money.  These traditions didn't grow organically out of Society's creative processes, out of the will to worship or to ritualize the spirit of giving.  Birthday cards specifically to a Dear Niece, from Your Aunt, Boss's Day, Secretary's Day, wedding rings that cost a minimum of 3 times the groom's monthly salary, the myriad little things you're supposed to do/provide/display at a wedding that simply add up to a lot of money for the party store. and on and on...

 

I don't think you're disparaging anything. I agree completely. I am lucky enough to have a family that values handmade gifts as much as, if not more than, storebought ones. I'd like to start making more gifts again, but...I lack talent. I'll probably start candlemaking again next year (dd2 will be old enough, and hopefully have settled down enough, for me to feel safe handling hot wax around her), but I'm an amateur, and not a particularly gifted one. While i think it's the thought that counts, I don't think that thought should be "here - this looks really crummy, so I thought you should have it". redface.gif

 

DH and I had a go around when he bought my engagement ring. The one we were trying to decide on had a stone a big bigger than I wanted, but the setting was lovely, and I was leaning towards it. We had very little money, and dh wanted to go up in size. He thought it was "tiny", and I don't think he truly believed me that I didn't want a bigger diamond, and felt the diamond was already somewhat too big. I honestly think it took several years before it truly sunk in that I wasn't playing some kind of "oh, you shouldn't have" game with him. And, why? It's mostly because our culture has been saturated with the idea that a man who really loves a woman will buy her the biggest possible diamond he can afford, even if "afford" means putting himself into debt for a year. The culture has been equally saturated with the belief that every single woman alive wants a gigantic diamond and rich husband. *sigh*

 

In theory, something like Secretary's Day is a nice idea - honour assistants, secretaries, etc. for their work (because it can be a lot of work for the pay). But, somehow, it means - like everything else - go spend lots of money. Mind you, Secretary's Day bothers me less than most in that respect - when I had a job, my boss was where I got the money I lived on, so my boss giving me cash was more meaningful than other people doing so, yk?


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#32 of 48 Old 11-24-2012, 09:55 PM
 
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I love Christmas. I love the lights, the decorations, the events, the stories, the music, the cookies, lots and lots of cookies...

 

My preceptor decorated the birth center the day after Thanksgiving and it's so great to see the rooms decorated. 

 

The only part that makes me a little sad is not being able to get more for the kids, but they have lots of stuff already and it's not like they won't get anything.


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#33 of 48 Old 11-25-2012, 10:56 AM
 
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advertisers want to redefine what special means to us ... and they ARE getting to people. 

 

 

Good point. I suppose it is easier to see when it is being aimed at a different culture with different traditions.

 

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Originally Posted by journeymom View Post
But- there are soooo many examples of 'traditions' that are manufactured by marketing and advertising, that have the ring of comfy, heart-felt motivation.  That amazingly enough require people to spend money.  

 

Like a list of specific gifts we should exchange for each wedding anniversary.

 

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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

The culture has been equally saturated with the belief that every single woman alive wants a gigantic diamond and rich husband. *sigh*

 

Indeed, we are all supposed to gush or feel impressed over diamond rings. I don't even like diamonds.

 

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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post I'd be so sad if my stocking didn't have an orange in it. They may not be worth much, in dollars, but in the toe of a stocking, they're pure gold.

 

My stocking better have a piece of fruit- even if it isn't an orange. :)


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#34 of 48 Old 11-25-2012, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Like a list of specific gifts we should exchange for each wedding anniversary.

 

I hadn't thought of that. Those lists are really old - I wonder about the rationale behind them. The traditional lists are quite different than the modern ones, but it is still kind of a strange idea.

 

Indeed, we are all supposed to gush or feel impressed over diamond rings. I don't even like diamonds.

 

I do like the diamond for a ring I wear every day. I have this hang-up about my jewelry clashing with my clothes (it's really kind of ridiculous - what could I possibly wear that would seriously clash with a small sapphire or amethyst?), so I like the colourless stone. But, I agree. I think the coloured stones are much prettier - they seem more alive and interesting. I have nothing against diamonds, and I certainly don't object if another woman loves them (it's not like I think that loving sapphires is morally superior, yk?), but I hate the cookie cutter "women love diamonds" message. "Diamonds are a girl's best friend"? Seriously? My best friend is my dh, not an overpriced sparkly rock.

 

My stocking better have a piece of fruit- even if it isn't an orange. :)

 

Exactly! Even if we had a box of oranges in the house (and we usually do at Christmas), I'd be sad if there wasn't one in my stocking. It's a tradition, and I love them. These days, my kids get an orange and a pomegranate. This contributes to their insanely overstuffed stockings, but they love pomegranates.


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#35 of 48 Old 11-25-2012, 12:09 PM
 
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Storm Bride, I'm not sure what your (wealthy) friend's comment was all about. 

 

I could easily see some of my fb friends making a similar comment, but it would be about Christmas being too materialistic (as in people buying something/anything just because it's the shopping season—witness camping out in front of Best Buy overnight to try to get the best deal on a PlayStation or whatever vs spending Thanksgiving Day with your family/friends), or about them being defensive about you getting finished with Christmas shopping "so early". Some people (like me) are procrastinators and the idea of someone else being finished with Christmas shopping in October or November makes them feel defensive. Reminds me a bit of the people who have different parenting philosophies (breastfeeding vs bottlefeeding, cosleeping vs cribs) and how defensive each side can seem. 

 

Since your friend is wealthy it seems unlikely that it's the spending/shopping that's bugging her, but maybe. It also seems unlikely that she would be defensive about you getting done early since she seems like she must be pretty together to have achieved the success she has, but maybe. It could be that she's defensive/jealous/envious of your family. Since she had such a rough upbringing I'd guess she doesn't have any close family and doesn't celebrate a close family holiday.

 

My DH is not into Christmas shopping because he doesn't like the hype and being told to give gifts at a certain time of year. He's very generous and enjoys giving, but on his terms when he feels like it.

 

I don't like Christmas shopping because I don't like crowds and I don't like shopping in general. I can probably count on two hands the number of times I go to the mall in one year. I also get stressed out about buying the right gift and one that the recipient will enjoy. I worry that it won't be good enough. Then I overbuy and I worry that I spent too much. I also have some issues with my family of origin and find the holidays stressful because of that. 

 

I do think Christmas in general, especially in the US, can practically be a celebration of acquisition and consumption and is far too materialistic for far too many people who go buy a bunch of plastic made in China junk that will fall apart in two months and get thrown into the landfill. I do think spending time with family, exchanging carefully considered gifts, listening to music, taking in a show/pageant, decorating can make a lovely celebration. When I think "Christmas shopping" I don't think "blacksmith lessons" I think http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/11/22/black-friday-deals-shopping-thanksgiving/1721731/ and I think I don't want to do that.


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#36 of 48 Old 11-25-2012, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Storm Bride, I'm not sure what your (wealthy) friend's comment was all about. 

 

I could easily see some of my fb friends making a similar comment, but it would be about Christmas being too materialistic (as in people buying something/anything just because it's the shopping season—witness camping out in front of Best Buy overnight to try to get the best deal on a PlayStation or whatever vs spending Thanksgiving Day with your family/friends),

 

I do think there was a lot of that. It was just kind of weird the way she assumed that any Christmas shopping at all was the same thing as rioting over towels.

 

or about them being defensive about you getting finished with Christmas shopping "so early". Some people (like me) are procrastinators and the idea of someone else being finished with Christmas shopping in October or November makes them feel defensive. Reminds me a bit of the people who have different parenting philosophies (breastfeeding vs bottlefeeding, cosleeping vs cribs) and how defensive each side can seem. 

 

I don't think it's that. I don't think she does any Christmas shopping at all.

 

Since your friend is wealthy it seems unlikely that it's the spending/shopping that's bugging her, but maybe. It also seems unlikely that she would be defensive about you getting done early since she seems like she must be pretty together to have achieved the success she has, but maybe. It could be that she's defensive/jealous/envious of your family. Since she had such a rough upbringing I'd guess she doesn't have any close family and doesn't celebrate a close family holiday.

 

As far as I know, she does get together with both her siblings and their kids (well, when her sister is in town - her sister lives in a different city). She was very attached ot her siblings, especially her little sister.

 

My DH is not into Christmas shopping because he doesn't like the hype and being told to give gifts at a certain time of year. He's very generous and enjoys giving, but on his terms when he feels like it.

 

Yeah - I had a friend like that when I was younger, too.

 

I don't like Christmas shopping because I don't like crowds and I don't like shopping in general. I can probably count on two hands the number of times I go to the mall in one year. I also get stressed out about buying the right gift and one that the recipient will enjoy. I worry that it won't be good enough. Then I overbuy and I worry that I spent too much. I also have some issues with my family of origin and find the holidays stressful because of that. 

 

This is actually why I shop early. I'm not very organized, and am a massive procrastinor, in general. It's just that even thinking about shopping during the crazy few weeks before Christmas freaks me out. I trained myself a long time ago to create an artificial deadline for my Christmas shopping, so that I can avoid the crowds. It doesn't always work, but when it does, my shopping works much, much better, and causes me much less stress.

 

I do think Christmas in general, especially in the US, can practically be a celebration of acquisition and consumption and is far too materialistic for far too many people who go buy a bunch of plastic made in China junk that will fall apart in two months and get thrown into the landfill. I do think spending time with family, exchanging carefully considered gifts, listening to music, taking in a show/pageant, decorating can make a lovely celebration. When I think "Christmas shopping" I don't think "blacksmith lessons" I think http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/11/22/black-friday-deals-shopping-thanksgiving/1721731/ and I think I don't want to do that.

 

I think this last sentence is really the key. I think she heard/saw "Christmas shopping" and thought the same thing. That's just so not my style that it kind of blew my mind. I'm probably a bit materialistic by MDC standards, but Christmas has never been about what I can get or about going out to buy, buy, buy. I kind of like Christmas shopping (the picking out the right gift part of it), but I hate shopping, in general, so I try to keep my time in the stores under control, yk? I've always been like that. Maybe she just doesn't remember...she and my sister used to go on mall-based spending sprees whenever they could get their hands on money, and she may misremember that I was into that, too.

 

I do find the consumer frenzy a bit bizarre, but we have more stuff than space, as it stands. I don't need a bunch more.


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#37 of 48 Old 11-26-2012, 10:01 PM
 
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I don't think you're disparaging anything. I agree completely. I am lucky enough to have a family that values handmade gifts as much as, if not more than, storebought ones. I'd like to start making more gifts again, but...I lack talent. I'll probably start candlemaking again next year (dd2 will be old enough, and hopefully have settled down enough, for me to feel safe handling hot wax around her), but I'm an amateur, and not a particularly gifted one. While i think it's the thought that counts, I don't think that thought should be "here - this looks really crummy, so I thought you should have it". redface.gif

 

DH and I had a go around when he bought my engagement ring. The one we were trying to decide on had a stone a big bigger than I wanted, but the setting was lovely, and I was leaning towards it. We had very little money, and dh wanted to go up in size. He thought it was "tiny", and I don't think he truly believed me that I didn't want a bigger diamond, and felt the diamond was already somewhat too big. I honestly think it took several years before it truly sunk in that I wasn't playing some kind of "oh, you shouldn't have" game with him. And, why? It's mostly because our culture has been saturated with the idea that a man who really loves a woman will buy her the biggest possible diamond he can afford, even if "afford" means putting himself into debt for a year. The culture has been equally saturated with the belief that every single woman alive wants a gigantic diamond and rich husband. *sigh*

 

In theory, something like Secretary's Day is a nice idea - honour assistants, secretaries, etc. for their work (because it can be a lot of work for the pay). But, somehow, it means - like everything else - go spend lots of money. Mind you, Secretary's Day bothers me less than most in that respect - when I had a job, my boss was where I got the money I lived on, so my boss giving me cash was more meaningful than other people doing so, yk?

 

I agree with the previous posters who have said maybe the comment was more about the commercialism of Christmas as a whole, rather than it being directly aimed at you. DF is the same way. He got indignant when places started advertising that they would be open on Thanksgiving, and everyone saying, "Oh, it was just a dinner with my family. I *really* NEED this TV." or whatever. Honestly it made me angry, as well. Basically, I think there are a *lot* of good posts on what she might have meant.

 

On a separate note, when we went to pick out my engagement ring the first time, DF and I, too, had a go around. He wanted to get me something *huge*, 3/4 carat, 1 carat, and I didn't want anything *nearly* that big, for a lot of reasons, afraid I would lose it, I'm not a huge fan of jewelry, but would want to wear it every day, so wanted something small, worried about scratching/damaging the ring, worried about scratching myself redface.gif (and did, as well as DD later on. greensad.gif ) I wanted something tiny, and we finally "compromised" on a 1/4 carat. It was beautiful, I'll admit, but still big to me. This time, I told him I want cubic zirconium(?).


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#38 of 48 Old 11-26-2012, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree with the previous posters who have said maybe the comment was more about the commercialism of Christmas as a whole, rather than it being directly aimed at you.

 

Oh, the way it played out, it was definitely partly directed at me, but...she's kind of oblivious about this kind of stuff. I don't think she even realized that it could be taken as a slam.

 

DF is the same way. He got indignant when places started advertising that they would be open on Thanksgiving, and everyone saying, "Oh, it was just a dinner with my family. I *really* NEED this TV." or whatever. Honestly it made me angry, as well. Basically, I think there are a *lot* of good posts on what she might have meant.

 

That kind of stuff makes me insanely angry. I have major issues with the marketing industry, in general...and I despise the way they deliberately try to undermine family connections, traditions, parent/child relationships, etc., in order to make a sale.

 

On a separate note, when we went to pick out my engagement ring the first time, DF and I, too, had a go around. He wanted to get me something *huge*, 3/4 carat, 1 carat, and I didn't want anything *nearly* that big, for a lot of reasons, afraid I would lose it, I'm not a huge fan of jewelry, but would want to wear it every day, so wanted something small, worried about scratching/damaging the ring, worried about scratching myself redface.gif (and did, as well as DD later on. greensad.gif ) I wanted something tiny, and we finally "compromised" on a 1/4 carat. It was beautiful, I'll admit, but still big to me. This time, I told him I want cubic zirconium(?).

 

DH and I have been married for a little over ten years. I still sometimes look at my ring, and think "this thing is huge". I know that, by a lot of standards, it's not huge at all. And, it is pretty, but it has a high setting, and it does seem to get in my way. I lost it - right around Christmas, actually - a few years ago, because I take it off a lot. It just seems kind of...intrusive. I think dh still thinks it's "too small". If it were any bigger, I suspect I'd only wear it for something like an anniversary dinner. I can't even remember what size it is, but, to me, it's big. The part that frustrated me at the time was that he really did seem to think I was just trying to make him feel better for nothing able to afford a big rock or something...sooooo not me.


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#39 of 48 Old 11-27-2012, 08:51 AM
 
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I deleted facebook because I couldn't deal with the emotional stress of having to read so much idiocy. I would totally be smacking her around if I still had an account. This is how I fake tact.

 

In your shoes I would be chanting "Ignore it; ignore it." But that kind of thing bugs me. I feel like at least some of the attitude about Christmas comes from the privilege of having all of your needs met all of the time. Your kids (and mine) get things they genuinely need for Christmas along with a few small wants. Christmas isn't really much about "wants". Its about spending time together and enjoying having your -needs- met in slightly more festive ways than usual.

 

I wish people would stop raining on my parade. In my house we do a lot of things like soap, socks, underwear, jammies, food. We do start preparation months in advance. We make a lot of what we give away and that requires *shopping for Christmas* in July. :P


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#40 of 48 Old 12-04-2012, 08:54 AM
 
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I think it's best to not take these things too personally, unless you find fault in yourself. I think most people are responding to their own pain when they post things like that. I find posts about Christmas and birthday buying difficult because I cannot shower friends and family with the gifts I would like to and it is difficult in my life with my particular friends and family members to express that love and affection in other ways. In my immediate family, I just wish I could buy things that I would like to give, because that would make me happy. But when I read long posts about the huge expenditures and extravagant holidays I do feel sad about what I am not able to do. It has nothing to do with the poster, so "I" don't respond, but I can totally see how this friend of yours is just venting, not judging you. Why don't you send her something nice. I'm guessing the holidays depress her a bit, like they do many people. There is so much energy all around about making, buying, giving ~ and it does get or can get overly materialistic. But, try to see that people post about themselves, not about you. 

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#41 of 48 Old 12-04-2012, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think it's best to not take these things too personally, unless you find fault in yourself. I think most people are responding to their own pain when they post things like that. I find posts about Christmas and birthday buying difficult because I cannot shower friends and family with the gifts I would like to and it is difficult in my life with my particular friends and family members to express that love and affection in other ways. In my immediate family, I just wish I could buy things that I would like to give, because that would make me happy. But when I read long posts about the huge expenditures and extravagant holidays I do feel sad about what I am not able to do.

 

I can understand that, but this was a very differnt situation. This woman could buy everything my family owns, probably including our minivan, and it wouldn't really hurt her, financially. And, I wasn't posting a lot about our plans - simply said that I was behind on my shopping.

 

I've actually decided not to engage with her anymore until after the holidays. We had another...not really a fight, but she got really weird...over having kids vs. being childfree. I have no problem with people choosing to be childfree and was very clear about it (she was talking about how people judge her like she's a freak, because she's a woman who doesn't want kids, and I agreed with her completely). This ended up with another bizarre comment about Christmas and shopping and how the fact that she "refuses to buy into" the idea of Christmas gifts is another reason she doesn't want kids. For whatever reason, this is obviously a big deal to her right now, and I'm just not going to get involved in these conversations, yk?

 

It has nothing to do with the poster, so "I" don't respond, but I can totally see how this friend of yours is just venting, not judging you.

 

Oh, she was judging me. She's one of the most judgmental people I've ever met - and often over really weird things. But, I'm over taking it personally. She's obviously got some issues about this stuff, and anything I say about Christmas, kids, etc. is going to push her buttons right now. I have a feeling she may have blocked my Facebook feed for the holidays, which would probably be best for her, honestly.

 

Why don't you send her something nice.


I can't afford to send her anything that would fall under her definition of "nice"...and I don't think she'd want it, anyway. Sh'es really, really negative about Christmas gifts, in all forms. I don't think she exchanges gifts with anybody, including her partner, nieces and nephews.

 

I'm guessing the holidays depress her a bit, like they do many people. There is so much energy all around about making, buying, giving ~ and it does get or can get overly materialistic. But, try to see that people post about themselves, not about you. 

 

Thanks. I knew that already, but I really figured it out after the whole parent/childfree thing a couple days ago. It was really, really odd.

 

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#42 of 48 Old 12-06-2012, 11:13 AM
 
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The quoting and fonts colors are really off in that post.

 

Sorry if my post wasn't helpful. I did not glean from your original post that she was trying to make you feel bad. I also didn't mean by giving her something nice that you should spend any or a ton of money on her. Sometimes people miss the relationships they don't have at the holidays. Maybe this is when she misses not having children. You may never know. Or maybe you post a lot about the shopping. I don't know. I don't think there's an answer here that will make you feel better. I would just hide the post and move on.

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#43 of 48 Old 12-06-2012, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The quoting and fonts colors are really off in that post.

 

Sorry if my post wasn't helpful. I did not glean from your original post that she was trying to make you feel bad. I also didn't mean by giving her something nice that you should spend any or a ton of money on her. Sometimes people miss the relationships they don't have at the holidays. Maybe this is when she misses not having children. You may never know. Or maybe you post a lot about the shopping. I don't know. I don't think there's an answer here that will make you feel better. I would just hide the post and move on.

What do you mean the quoting and font colours are off? I replied, and then coloured my replies blue. That's what I usually do within a quote.

 

I've posted once about shopping. She replied in less than a minute.

 

I don't think she was "trying" to make me feel bad. But, her response of "I refuse to buy into that", when "that" is what I just finished saying I was doing, was rude. She's since made several other comments (mostly on her own wall) in the same vein.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about making me feel better. I was upset when I posted the thread, but have simply been continuing the conversation with people who have replied since then.

 

I don't do any crafts that would enable me to give her something that she would call nice. She likes expensive stuff, and has very high standards. There's nothing I could get her, on my budget, that she would call "nice". She also doesn't want anything. She's posted a few times about this on Facebook since my original post. She considers any gifting at Christmas - purchased, handmade, whatever - to be materialistic, and the result of corporate manipulation, and states, quite clearly, that the only reason people buy/make gifts at Christmas is because corporations tell them to.

 

I've wondered if she misses having kids, but I don't know if she does or not. She's also stated that, if she had kids, Christmas would be even worse, because she "refused to buy into that", and wouldn't give them gifts, and then the'yd feel deprived.

 

So, yeah - no idea what's going on with her about Christmas, but she has no hesitation about telling other people what they're doing wrong, if they don't do things the way she would.


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#44 of 48 Old 12-08-2012, 07:43 PM
 
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I couldn't help but chime in after you left such a thoughtful response to my thread, Storm! Your post brought back memories of when I was engaged in the crunchy competition. I had a gaggle of friends who seemed to be angling for the "most crunchy", and many of their comments would be "you didn't really let your child buy a Lalaloopsy, did you? Do you know where those are made? Do you know what is involved in them? Do you know what is offgassing in them? Do you know they could be chokey?" or things like "that is a really cute recipe, but did you know it is loaded with dead food? I wouldn't feed that to an enemy!" 

 

Well, all that kind of brought me down. I was friends with them because in many ways they stretched my creativity in seeking my own ideals, but they were so rigid in their beliefs that there was no wiggle room. I would have my own little self-doubts about enjoying Target, and then think "huh..now in what ways have I just been brainwashed? I can't tell ___ and ___ about my secret Target trip...but good thing it wasn't Walmart"...

 

It was those tiny little doubts that made me super-sensitive when others would comment on my shopping or cooking or travelling or breastfeeding or cosleeping, etc., practices. Sure, I've engaged in ultra-materialistic holidays, and they feel bad, so if someone said "that sounds materialistic" I'd very likely say "mmmhmmm. That's exactly what it was, and I really enjoyed it" but I would still be a bit resentful that they pointed out something I am myself trying to "not" do even though what they said was true (with a little t). But then again, I am currently in Christmas recovery, so a comment like "I hate the materialism of Christmas" resonates with me. I'd probably hit the like button...but I get your frustration.

 

I think shopping will = materialism when someone is swept away in shopper fever, splurging on stuff nobody wants because it's a good deal, or a Black Friday steal. They still spent the money and ended up with a deal that turns out useless. That would be the materialism piece. True minimalists still go to a store now and then. Even the most die-harder frugal minimalist tends to want a fresh store-bought bra once in a while (at the very least). I think even the super-crafters who do all hand-made have a potential to get materialistic about the holidays.

 

L

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#45 of 48 Old 12-08-2012, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I couldn't help but chime in after you left such a thoughtful response to my thread, Storm! Your post brought back memories of when I was engaged in the crunchy competition. I had a gaggle of friends who seemed to be angling for the "most crunchy", and many of their comments would be "you didn't really let your child buy a Lalaloopsy, did you? Do you know where those are made? Do you know what is involved in them? Do you know what is offgassing in them? Do you know they could be chokey?" or things like "that is a really cute recipe, but did you know it is loaded with dead food? I wouldn't feed that to an enemy!" 

 

Well, all that kind of brought me down. I was friends with them because in many ways they stretched my creativity in seeking my own ideals, but they were so rigid in their beliefs that there was no wiggle room. I would have my own little self-doubts about enjoying Target, and then think "huh..now in what ways have I just been brainwashed? I can't tell ___ and ___ about my secret Target trip...but good thing it wasn't Walmart"...

 

I'm really, really lucky, because my super crunchy friends just don't do that. There are certain gums/candies that one of them won't allow her kids to have, but it's "no - they can't have that", not "OMG - WHY did you buy that??" and it makes a difference, yk?

 

It was those tiny little doubts that made me super-sensitive when others would comment on my shopping or cooking or travelling or breastfeeding or cosleeping, etc., practices. Sure, I've engaged in ultra-materialistic holidays, and they feel bad, so if someone said "that sounds materialistic" I'd very likely say "mmmhmmm. That's exactly what it was, and I really enjoyed it" but I would still be a bit resentful that they pointed out something I am myself trying to "not" do even though what they said was true (with a little t). But then again, I am currently in Christmas recovery, so a comment like "I hate the materialism of Christmas" resonates with me. I'd probably hit the like button...but I get your frustration.

 

I think the pointing it out is where she gets to me. The more I see her interactions on Facebook (not just with me), the more I realize she's got some odd lines about what to say, and when to say it, and most of all how to say it, yk? I don't really mind the commenting about the materialism of Christmas, as such - I just think "this is why I loathe Christmas" is a bit harsh as a post in response to someone else's post about the holidays, yk?

 

I think shopping will = materialism when someone is swept away in shopper fever, splurging on stuff nobody wants because it's a good deal, or a Black Friday steal. They still spent the money and ended up with a deal that turns out useless. That would be the materialism piece. True minimalists still go to a store now and then. Even the most die-harder frugal minimalist tends to want a fresh store-bought bra once in a while (at the very least). I think even the super-crafters who do all hand-made have a potential to get materialistic about the holidays.

 

I think one of the reasons it kind of bugged me was that she NO idea what kind of shopping I was talking about. I could have been buying yarn to make sweaters (she's known my family for a long time, and my mom did/does a lot of crocheting, and I never cared about money and such - when we knew each other well, she was 1000X more into having all the latest and greatest than I've ever been, yk?), or baking supplies (I actually was talking partly about that), or toys or clothes for a charity drive. I've never been a shopper - in our younger days, she used to make catty comments about the way I dressed, precisely because I didn't care about all the stuff I was "supposed" to care about - OPLs, brand names, whether or not something was "in", etc.). But, she's always been a bit odd.

 

The only shopping fever I've ever suffered from is a tendency to go nuts on stocking stuffers...but those are still useful and things we need, or will at least use (as much as all love glowstick bracelets, I'm not going to claim we "need" them).

 

L

 

Thank you. This has been an interesting conversation. She obviously has really strong feelings about this stuff (there have been several other comments, threads, links, etc.), and I've decided to just no respond to anything she says until after the holidays. Even a thread where I was agreeing with her (about the way some parents judge women for being childfree), it got all weird and tense. I think she just assumes people are judging her, unless they flat out say, "I agree 100%, K".


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#46 of 48 Old 12-08-2012, 08:36 PM
 
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From the movie Pink Flamingos:

 

"There are two kinds of people. MY kind of people and a--holes. It's rather obvious which category YOU fit into. Have a nice day!"

 

This particular quote runs through my head often when reading Facebook comments. I think the woman is not your kind of people.

 

;-) L

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#47 of 48 Old 12-09-2012, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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From the movie Pink Flamingos:

 

"There are two kinds of people. MY kind of people and a--holes. It's rather obvious which category YOU fit into. Have a nice day!"

 

This particular quote runs through my head often when reading Facebook comments. I think the woman is not your kind of people.

 

;-) L


lol

 

She's not, really - but she's an old friend, and kind of like family, yk? Besides, as I said upthread, she's got a lot of good stuff going for her, too. She's just kind of...unthinkingly snooty. (Everyone I know  who has her on Facebook has made this observation at least once, so at least I know it's not just me).


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#48 of 48 Old 12-09-2012, 03:06 PM
 
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She just has some sort on anti-Christmas thing going on, and it is not about you smile.gif  (a conclusion I am sure you have come to).


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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