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Old 12-22-2012, 03:11 PM
 
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If Nancy Lanza could speak about this event, I'm sure she would admit it was a mistake to bring guns and gun culture into her home. 


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Old 12-22-2012, 03:15 PM
 
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Into any home.  It's a mistake to bring guns and gun culture into any home.

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Old 12-22-2012, 03:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by meemee View Post

and absolutely hollywood always adds to things. where would clint eastwood be without guns. however he is such a great actor he could have easily done without guns. if there is no demand, the supply finally dries up. but alas we all love our ramboes.

 

I have trouble figuring out just how much the Hollywood effect matters. I watch violent movies (80s action movies are still some of my favourites). Most, maybe all, of them feature guns. I loved Stallone movies (including the Rambo franchise) and Eastwood movies, and Bronson movies, and Schwarzenegger movies, and all the rest. I have no desire to own a gun. I never have. None of the people I used to watch those movies with have any interest in owning a gun, either.

 

Hollywood may, or may not, impact this, but the gun culture exists with or without the movies.


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Old 12-22-2012, 04:10 PM
 
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I thought it was common for parents to teach children how to handle guns in cultures where guns are normalised?  I saw an interview a few days ago (I think it was Brad Pitt) and the famous actor was talking about how comfortable he was around guns and how he was taught to shoot by his parents from a young age.

 

Parents who teach their children how to use guns are not unusual are they?  And not assuming he'd go out and murder children with them isn't an unusual assumption to make about one's child either.  

 

I don't know any families who have guns or teach their children to use them.  I don't know that I've ever actually seen a gun other than in a police officer's holster.  It's possible I did when I was very young because we lived in an area where hunting was big and I know that some of our neighbors hunted.  But if we went to a friend's house and it came up that they had a gun, I would be SHOCKED and horrified and I would most likely not let my kids visit without me, if I wanted to still visit at all.  I don't have a problem with hunting for food, but I do have a problem with sport hunting and I cannot imagine feeling okay about someone I hang out with having a gun.  

 

I hope all non-Americans aren't assuming that we all raise our children up that way.  I could not be farther from the truth for many of us.  But I can hardly blame you as the people who are that way appear to have the loudest voices and the most power.


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Old 12-22-2012, 04:11 PM
 
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I don't blame mothers for their children's actions.  Where was his father and why is he not getting blamed too?  Where was the law that prevented him from getting access to such weapons?  Someone made and sold every gun and bullet he used too.  Where does the blame end?

 

It's easy to blame mothers.  It's harder to look at the bigger issues.

 

 

I blame her for her own actions of buying guns, including an assault rifle, a great deal of ammunition, and then storing them where a mentally ill person had access to them. I blame her for her own actions.

 

One good thing that could come out of this is people rethinking how they store their weapons and who has access to them.


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Old 12-22-2012, 04:19 PM
 
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   I am an Army wife. I don't like guns, will never have one, and never allow one in my home. 

 

 However I am very schooled in the constitution and while the founding fathers could not have pictured automatic weapons, the core of what they wanted, was to let citizens have the ability to defend themselves, against their own government if needed. With government having these weapons I do not think it is a stretch to say that the founding fathers would have supported private ownership. In anycase, I do not think it is constitutional to take guns away from good citizens in this country. I do not have to like it and if I do not like it, I can move to a country that does not have guns. Thankfully I have choices. 

 

 I think there are a lot of people who are using this as a wake up call, that our country needs better available mental health care and some tighter laws. I think there needs to be federal gun laws. 

 

 My father lives in one of the strictest states in the country as far as gun control, he is a hunter who gets special licenses to hunt in over populated area for deer who would otherwise starve to death and throw the environment out of wake more. He is really worried he will lose his gun rights over all this while he has never done anything wrong himself. He belongs to a gun club, shoots at target as a hobby, and has shot automatic weapons at targets, he finds this fun. I don't get it, but I don't get a lot of things, this does not mean though that others shouldn't be able to do it. 

 

 Remember more people die in car accidents, this does not mean though that none of us should have cars right? I get that guns tend to have one function, unlike cars, but the constitution is the constitution though maybe I am expecting much of someone from another country to understand just what that means to some of us. This is not a dig, just an a thought. I agree we need change but I think we need to be very mindful of our constitution. I wish no one on the planet had guns but that is not realistic or helpful, we have to deal with what we have to work with. 


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Old 12-22-2012, 04:24 PM
 
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I thought it was common for parents to teach children how to handle guns in cultures where guns are normalised?  I saw an interview a few days ago (I think it was Brad Pitt) and the famous actor was talking about how comfortable he was around guns and how he was taught to shoot by his parents from a young age.

 

Parents who teach their children how to use guns are not unusual are they?

 

I think they are unusual -- at least where I live. I know only of one family that owns firearms and considers being knowledgeable in their use a virtue. The father is retired military and both parents are former police officers. When our children had questions about guns (neither my husband or I shoot or know much about guns) we directed our children to them.

 

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Who gets to decide whether your child is troubled enough that you get the blame if you decide to do something that other parents are doing with their children - ie teach them how to shoot?

 

Most kids go through a difficult time in their teens.  Lots of gifted children are withdrawn.  Lots of children are socially isolated.  You can't blame a mother for a mass murderer's actions because she didn't foresee the mass murder and not do what millions of other mothers and fathers are doing with their children in the same country.

 

I don't know any parent who keeps assault rifles laying around. This isn't a normal thing to do. And even if it were, it wouldn't make each person doing it less responsible for their own actions.

 

Teens whose parents own guns are more likely to die by suicide than teens whose parent don't own guns. Any parent who owns guns SHOULD keep them in a gun safe that their child can't open.

 

Far more parents of troubled teens put their kid in therapy than leave build a cache of weapons.Her actions really aren't normal by any measure.


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Old 12-22-2012, 05:26 PM
 
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 However I am very schooled in the constitution and while the founding fathers could not have pictured automatic weapons, the core of what they wanted, was to let citizens have the ability to defend themselves, against their own government if needed. With government having these weapons I do not think it is a stretch to say that the founding fathers would have supported private ownership. In anycase, I do not think it is constitutional to take guns away from good citizens in this country. I do not have to like it and if I do not like it, I can move to a country that does not have guns. Thankfully I have choices. 

 

..............................................

 

 Remember more people die in car accidents, this does not mean though that none of us should have cars right? I get that guns tend to have one function, unlike cars, but the constitution is the constitution though maybe I am expecting much of someone from another country to understand just what that means to some of us. This is not a dig, just an a thought. I agree we need change but I think we need to be very mindful of our constitution. I wish no one on the planet had guns but that is not realistic or helpful, we have to deal with what we have to work with. 

 

I don't know a whole lot about the constitution or the founding fathers, but I still feel very doubtful that their answer would have been to put up with it or get out.  If so, I doubt they would have been so big on the whole "free speech" thing or have made provisions for how to amend the constitution.  Plus, if all the sane people left, then the US would eventually get way too scary.  


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Old 12-22-2012, 08:36 PM
 
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...why people in this country can go and legally buy such advanced weapons as semi-automatic rifles. It's something that speaks to some deep immaturity many people here must have. These weapons were designed for massive destruction.

I am not from here and in the country I come from no one but the police and the military are allowed to have any kind of guns.

I don't understand why this is legal here. Why someone can have a weapon like this in a suburban home.

This is incredibly poor judgement on the side of politicians and apparently, it's not an exception that regular people in regular homes are armed with powerful weapons meant for combat.

It's incomprehensible, scary and sad. While everyone is trying to figure out how to talk about this, why is no one talking about the facts of gun ownership? Why is everyone trying to pretend that "normally" things are normal? They are not. Rifles are for the military and as long as they are owned by regular people, the unthinkable can happen at any place.

I sometimes admire Americans, but on occasions like this I am reminded that there is an unexplainable wild side to them that is more than scary and impossible to comprehend. The primitive urge for ownership of what can destroy so much is nothing but the craving for power. However, such craving has to be educated, minimized and channeled, not indulged. Yet it seems here there is no end to the complexity of indulging it and thus no end to the violence this process is causing. Everyone is asking "why"? But everyone knows why. A rifle was within a very easy reach- it never should have been. 

 

Have you ever shot a gun? It's pretty fun.

 

Have you ever lived outside the town, where if you DON'T have a gun, you'd be dead/raped for a good 30 minutes before a cop could get there?

 

Have you ever thought about why you are so one-minded about this issue? Your OP seems a bit opinionated, and what I've learned is that when I have really strong views about things, i am usually not seeing the balance in life.

 

All that said, there are some weapons that should probably only be allowed to be in shooting ranges for the strict purpose of the fun of firing them once in a while at a paper target.


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Old 12-23-2012, 03:41 AM
 
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I don't know any families who have guns or teach their children to use them.  I don't know that I've ever actually seen a gun other than in a police officer's holster.  It's possible I did when I was very young because we lived in an area where hunting was big and I know that some of our neighbors hunted.  But if we went to a friend's house and it came up that they had a gun, I would be SHOCKED and horrified and I would most likely not let my kids visit without me, if I wanted to still visit at all.  I don't have a problem with hunting for food, but I do have a problem with sport hunting and I cannot imagine feeling okay about someone I hang out with having a gun.  

 

I hope all non-Americans aren't assuming that we all raise our children up that way.  I could not be farther from the truth for many of us.  But I can hardly blame you as the people who are that way appear to have the loudest voices and the most power.

 

I can see why you'd think that people would assume that all Americans raise their children this way.  I certainly don't think that and have American friends who weren't raised like that.  But it's not uncommon, it's certainly very common in some areas and my main point is really that we have to be very careful about blaming mothers for the actions of their grown sons.  Mothers get the blame for FAR too much.  And the woman was murdered by the same man who murdered the children.  She is the victim of the most extreme violence imaginable and does not deserve to be cast as the cause of this.

 

Here, some more sad news.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/after-the-slaughter-at-sandy-hook-school-americas-firearms-debate-intensifies-8430231.html  The USA is a huge place and suggesting that these tragedies are commonplace would be foolish.  But they are happening every day and it's a needless and avoidable situation.

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Old 12-23-2012, 09:23 AM
 
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To the original psoter, I dont' get it either. I dont' understand why on earth any civilian person would have a gun, other than to hunt. I haven't been to the US, so I don't know if it is true, but I have heard you can even carry guns aorund. You can go to Wlmart and see people with a gun on their person. Why would you ever need to carry a gun to Walmart? There are certainly guns in Canada, but you can't just go carrying one around to a store and the average person does not have a gun in their home unless a hunter and it must be in  alocked cabinet in your home.

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Old 12-23-2012, 09:25 AM
 
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500 is amazing.  greensad.gif  I had seen 114 just a few days ago.  I'm not terribly surprised, though.  

 

It sounds to me like you don't want her to be blamed because she is a mom and moms shouldn't be blamed (ever?) for their children's actions.  But it isn't the relationship that makes me say she is to blame.  If his brother or best friend or priest had indoctrinated him in the gun culture and then given him a bunch of guns and the left him with them when they knew that he was depressed/mentally ill/angry at the world, I would say they were to blame.  It's not about the stuff that therapists love, just the actual fact of the gun stuff.  (Though, anyone who loved guns like she did, I gotta wonder about what he learned other than that...)  But I am really very much about not assigning blame almost ever.  I don't normally think in terms of blame and responsibility.  I used to be a criminal defense attorney for clients who were on death row.  I never thought it was very important to point the finger at people for big or little things.  BUT  OMG!  I am just flabbergasted by this woman.  Maybe it is my momness that makes me want to blame her or possibly her lack of it (I know that sounds terrible) but to give your very depressed/mentally ill/angry at the world child a bunch of guns???  I would not expect her to imagine what he actually did.  But wouldn't a normal person (whether mom, friend, brother) worry that he'd kill himself?  I don't know this kid, but I'm pretty sure that would be my fear.  And I'd fear that even if I didn't sense anything was wrong with my kid (which she did, as we know she was working on getting him committed), because 20 year old males are probably the biggest risk group and I have seen over and over that families don't know there was anything wrong.

 

And the fact that other people do it doesn't make it seem any better to me.  There are an awful lot of people who think its completely batshit insane to have assault weapons or any guns at all in your home and to have them around your children.  I don't think we can call it "normal" and therefore say that she is blameless.  

 

ETA:  As far as her being one of the victims:  I have wondered if he killed her to spare her or if he did it out of anger.  At any rate, I think in an odd way it might have been a kind thing to do.  She has no idea what happened, to her or anyone else.


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Old 12-23-2012, 09:40 AM
 
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All good points.  I don't think she's blameless.  Certainly not.  Neither is the American government.  Nor the NRA. Nor the people who sold her the guns or the people who made the guns.  Nor gun culture, Hollywood nor his father.  But I don't apportion the blame on his mother and I don't believe anyone else should either.  I don't know their story and nor does anyone else at this point, but it seems that she apparently saw no more need to move away the guns than to hide the kitchen knives or razor blades.  She liked guns and left them lying around, like millions of other people.  The problem is the fact that she was able to do that, surely?  It shouldn't be up to mothers to know the state of mind of their children and prevent them carrying out mass murder, including matricide.

 

It should be up to the government to protect the public from people who are mass murderers by making sure they can't get hold of weapons that allow them to do that.  I live in a country where the government, for all the appalling things they do, protect us in this way at least and for that I am grateful.  

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Old 12-23-2012, 10:04 AM
 
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before we cast our first stone do we know how he got the guns? did he have easy access to them as we are assuming?

 

i am curious about gun culture in Russia. how is it like in that country? coz they export guns almost the same amount as the US. even their manufacturing matches the US - almost. what is homicide like there?

 

btw i am not going to let dd's social life be defined by a gun. a gun does not automatically mean murderer. a couple of houses where dd goes to play have guns. i know the families. they are responsible. and their children know even if the gun is lying around in front of them they are not allowed to touch them - ever. though they have been taught how to shoot and know all about gun safety. they have never seen a loaded gun except on the range. these are actually heirloom rifles owned by family members. 

 

i am looking at certain statistics internationally. i havent finished. 

 

but my point i wanted to make was people dont really know how deadly a gun is. killing is minor compared to what the survivor has to go through after being shot. of course there are no statistics - no one wants to talk about them. i think if people knew how people survived gunshot wounds the NRA would not be able to be who they are. even if you came out physically unscathed, there is some form of PTSD. 


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Old 12-23-2012, 10:12 AM
 
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Heroine and meth can be made in a garage. An assault rifle cannot and all of the countries that have banns on semiautomatic weapons have had huge success in reducing gun violence. Sure it still kind of happens but is a much much lower percentage and i never ever hear on the news "Gun men thwarted by other gunman." The "give everyone guns" idea is terrible. You cannot arm millions of people in hopes that they will find the courage and have good aim to not hurt anyone else when the time arrives.

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Old 12-23-2012, 10:29 AM
 
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    If you honestly want to know why people are buying assault rifles, why don't you contact some gun clubs and ask people? I don't think you're going to get the answer you're looking for on mothering, where I'm pretty sure most of the members do not own assault rifles.

 

I can speak to this statement.  While we don't own (and never will) an assult rifles, we do own several hunting rifles, shot guns and a hand gun.  The rifles and shotguns are unloaded, locked away, with trigger guards and there is no ammunition in our home.  DH used to hunt and we both inherited the other guns from our family members.  We have often talked about selling most of them but are afraid to sell them to someone we don't know.  We were both raised in a hunting culture where the % of gun ownership was extremely high.  Even today, I assume most people in my community own a gun of some sort. 

 

We have friends that own assult rifles and semi-automatic pistols as well as hunting guns of various types.  Keep reading....

 

 

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I agree - psychopaths should not have access to guns.  Adam Lanzas mother is partially at fault for this heinous act.

 

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Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

 

 

His mother knew he had deep psychological problems, but collected guns, taught him to use guns, and took him to gun shows. Why don't you feel she is responsible for her actions?  She helped make him what he was. She bought and paid for every gun and every bullet used.

 

He could not have done this without her enabling him.

 

My "gun" friends are beyond horrified about the fact that he had access to those guns.  And I agree, there is no excuse for it.  And not because she was his mother but because a reasonable person makes sure their guns are secure. 

 

I know a lot of hard core gun people and every single one of them is fanatical about safety and security.  Guns are treated like the deadly weapons that they are, not left around the house for a family member or an intruder to pick up.  Some have huge vaults, some have entire secure rooms.   One is the only person that can access his vault.  Not even his grown sons have the passcode because friend feels there is no reason for them to have it.  Guns and ammo are very expensive and safety aside, they would no more leave $5,000 in cash in a bedroom closet then they would a gun.

 

Why do they own assult rifles?  To take them out to the shooting range.  It is an expensive, high-end hobby. 


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Old 12-24-2012, 10:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Please send me a private message if you want to participate in a documentary on this issue or you want to find out more information about the project.

I need people who are interested in speaking out their convictions and can do so with honesty and passion. I'd like people from all camps: people who have guns, people who don't, people on the fence, people with experience with guns, or simply mamas with an opinion. This is an indie mother-made project.

To participate, you simply need to videotape your opinion and send it to me. I do have specific guidelines for the process available. If you are interested, please get in touch with me. Would love to get as many opinions as possible.

Thank you!


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