public assistance debate - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 01-28-2013, 11:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by purplerose View Post

When I hear families talk about how much they get in food stamps, and it's more than we spend on groceries, their kids get free breakfast and lfree lunch at school and they are complaining...that bothers me.

My neighbors earn between 13K and 15K for a family of 4.  They get about $250 in food stamps per month.  I'm sure it varies from state to state, from situation to situation, but I can't imagine how little a family needs to earn to have more food stamp cash than an average family spends on groceries.  I might find it frustrating considering my own financial limitations, but I don't begrudge others some help.  

 

I've never met anyone from the "other half" of families, except when I was hitchhiking and homeless by choice, and meeting people who were barely functional.  Those people were indeed milking the system--but we are talking about a system that is tiny compared to other federal and state budgets.  I just happens to be the most visible in-your-face budget.  I honestly have never met those families who weren't grateful for the help they receive.  

 

But regardless, I don't why receiving assistance automatically removes your right to complain about it at all.


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Old 01-28-2013, 11:38 AM
 
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i guess it's the complaining about how they don't get enough, not about complaining about their situation in general. it's there to assist people, not fund everything. complain about a can of formula costing alot, ok, but call WIC stupid bc they won't pay for ALL your formula? complain about the cost of groceries, that's normal, but complain bc you don't get enough foodstamps and they don't cover all the foods you think it should? to me that is unreasonable. i see a lack of personal responsibility. some of it is, yes, the inability to budget and spend money wisely.

 

this isn't a major issue for me, the only time i get passionate about the subject is when people claim we should do away with welfare. I strongly believe in the system...it needs so much work, but it works to assist people financially with their groceries and feeding the kids. Just as Medicaid in the US helps those low-income without insurance. Social programs are important and I guess I am a tiny bit judgemental...when what you usually see is wrong, it's hard to see where the ones doing it right are. literally all the people i personally know who are on foodstamps(that i have personally been told by them) sell them for cigs and gas. then i have to listen to them complain about not getting enough. while there are families who truely need more assistance than they get.


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Old 01-28-2013, 12:11 PM
 
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Dishonesty is pretty awful and I do NOT agree with people trading their food stamps.  But anyone desperate enough for gas and cigs to sacrifice food is in rough shape :(   Cigarettes are so yucky but they are also a double-edged solace for the poor/working poor seeking a comfort and too poor to access many of the other less toxic pleasures in life.  I know that a person can be poor and find happiness and take pleasure in life but desperation and fear and self-contempt do a number on the noble human spirit.  True fraud is still wrong and unfair but I do not have it in my heart to hold too much against our lost souls.  So many broken people and so many lost souls.  So blessed are all of us who find a way to be hopeful.  We actually have some power to bring good into our own lives with dignity. Many do not know these things. 

 

Though this is wrong, I would be quick to forgive someone who needed gas money to get to work and traded food for it.  I wonder though how people trade/sell food stamps now since they are all accessed via a card from a personal digital account? 

 

Did you know that anyone who shares food with ANYONE who is not in their food stamp-qualifying family is also committing fraud?  Technically you can not have a friend over for dinner and share food, you can not share food purchased with food stamps with a child you are babysitting, you cannot bring a food stamp purchase to share at a holiday dinner with the grandparents. 


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Old 01-28-2013, 12:26 PM
 
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i was thinking about that earlier, the fraud by sharing a meal with others. so no buying flour/sugar/eggs, making a birthday cake and sharing it at a party. so there, i am guilty also of welfare fraud. i have also donated canned goods bought with foodstamps back when i was on them. i don't even know how many times i made food that others ate.

 

if you give someone with foodstamps cash, you take their card shopping and buy whatever amount they tell you you can use.

 

i do know...we do what we have to, to get by. welfare fraud just isn't my hill to die on, or really to get that bothered by. i have done things, illegal things, to have food. it makes me no better than someone who is sneaky on welfare. there are far worse crimes against humanity(and animals) than any of these things being talked about.


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Old 01-31-2013, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by kitteh View Post

Just so you know, the original post was a sort of spin-off from the Welfare Moms thread over in parenting. The op wasn't intending to be offensive as much as provocative, and I don't even think she was presenting her own opinion on the subject but rather presenting for debate a sentiment that had arisen in the other thread.

Kitteh -- Thank you for explaining!



To everyone,

I apologize for all hurt feelings. This was an attempt to clarify and get a deeper understanding of viewpoints being raised on the other thread.

And thank you to all who have been posting here!! In spite of my inadvertent poor wording, all have been posting thoughtful and respectful replies!!

There is much food for thought here. I see there has been *much* activity on the original thread. I hope it has been as respectful.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:01 AM
 
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Senario #3.

Someone who is employed only two days a week and receiving assistance. Should she be told to work the other three days? If she doesn't look for a five day a week job, is that fraud? She has only older children in this hypothetical situation. The children are 12 or older.

What do you think?

 

I think she should be seeking full-time employment. In the meantime, she can receive assistance while working part-time.


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Old 02-01-2013, 10:06 AM
 
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I'm really having a hard time wrapping my mind around the thought process of thinking lobster on food stamps is fraud.. "How dare you have the audacity to not afford the cost of food! You deserve rice and beans only!" 


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Old 02-04-2013, 01:32 AM
 
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Lobsters are pretty nutritious and might not be expensive in some locations.  My mom grew up in a seaside village.  People were very poor there but fish, crabs and lobsters are free for those who would go catch them.  She didn't have candies, if she wanted snacks they gave her some dried shrimps or crab legs to snack on.  Everyone had robust health and perfect teeth.  My mom never caught a cold until she left home and went to college (and started eating rice and noodles). 

 

I'd say it's much better food than most stuff in grocery stores.  If they have enough in their budget, why not?  Definitely not fraud to buy something yummy and good for you.


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Old 02-04-2013, 10:11 PM
 
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Lobster or ramen noodles? I mean, is this really debatable? If one wants to spend their allocated SNAP benefits on something nutritious and high in protein and Omega-3's, vs a "filler" food of sorts, why the heck should anyone else care?

Eta: people are so weird. And I don't mean those on this thread. But people who complain about how food benefits are spent. It's the same amount every month, right? Whether they buy skittles and soda or kale and beans. What a odd thing to judge.

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Old 02-04-2013, 10:32 PM
 
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I have to say, this thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth. OP, I understand that this was a spin-off, and that you were curious about peoples' opinions of different welfare situations... and I'm always interested in a good conversation... but coming up with potential "fraud" situations and then making judgement calls is just weird to me! The thing is, the system is the system. Any thoughts about what may or may not be "fair" just screams judgement to me. Maybe I'm sensitive to it, because, yes, I'm a bleeding heart liberal who LOVES to support government programs. There is a reason why food stamps now operate as more of a debit card. You no longer have to just buy a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, like you used to. The change was made to recognize human dignity.


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Old 02-04-2013, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by loveandgarbage View Post

I have to say, this thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth. OP, I understand that this was a spin-off, and that you were curious about peoples' opinions of different welfare situations... and I'm always interested in a good conversation... but coming up with potential "fraud" situations and then making judgement calls is just weird to me! The thing is, the system is the system. Any thoughts about what may or may not be "fair" just screams judgement to me. Maybe I'm sensitive to it, because, yes, I'm a bleeding heart liberal who LOVES to support government programs. There is a reason why food stamps now operate as more of a debit card. You no longer have to just buy a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, like you used to. The change was made to recognize human dignity.

I never made any judgement calls. I'm not sure where you got that idea. People have thoughts regarding fairness, and understanding those thoughts can sometimes bring people together. I was attempting to determine if there was simply a difference in people's opinion of what constitutes abusing the welfare system. I'm sorry this offended you.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by loveandgarbage View Post

I have to say, this thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth. OP, I understand that this was a spin-off, and that you were curious about peoples' opinions of different welfare situations... and I'm always interested in a good conversation... but coming up with potential "fraud" situations and then making judgement calls is just weird to me! The thing is, the system is the system. Any thoughts about what may or may not be "fair" just screams judgement to me. Maybe I'm sensitive to it, because, yes, I'm a bleeding heart liberal who LOVES to support government programs. There is a reason why food stamps now operate as more of a debit card. You no longer have to just buy a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, like you used to. The change was made to recognize human dignity.

The fraud situations were hypotheticals. And they actually weren't being labeled as fraud. The OP was asking others to give their opinion on IF certain situations should, could, would be considered fraud. No judgment, just conversation. On the other thread, people were speaking from personal experiences and it was getting heated. Some were getting judged over there. Over on this thread, we were hoping to have a civil discussion. I believe that was the OP's intent.


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Old 02-05-2013, 07:43 AM
 
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... but coming up with potential "fraud" situations and then making judgement calls is just weird to me! The thing is, the system is the system. Any thoughts about what may or may not be "fair" just screams judgement to me

I don't get why judging whether a hypothetical situation is fair or not fair is wrong.  That does not mean we can do anything about it, other than exercise our right to vote or join lobby/activists groups…. but I can judge whether or not I think something is fair.

 

Everyone judges.  


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Old 02-06-2013, 07:52 PM
 
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I apologize for just leaping in here and posting that. It's hard for me to articulate exactly why the premise of this thread bothers me. So I'll duck out :).


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Old 02-07-2013, 06:45 AM
 
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nm

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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