I am I the only person driven crazy by people who profess a specific diet and then eats those things? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 80 Old 05-20-2013, 11:51 PM
 
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I don't see why it would be hard to be overweight on a healthy vegan diet.  Now maybe a raw foods vegan diet might be difficult, but I knew someone who gained weight on a raw food vegan diet because she ate a lot of avocados. I think if you are an overweight adult, and you've been overweight most of your life, making sure your diet is really healthy isn't going to make you not fat.  You might lose some weight, but it's not like someone is going to drop a hundred pounds just because she eats whole foods & avoids animal products. There might be weight loss at first if you restrict enough food that you are naturally consuming far fewer calories, but eventually you will figure out what you can eat, and eat to your natural hunger.

This depends on how you define healthy, though, doesn't it? I would hardly say that a diet containing lots of avocados was healthy. It's better than a lot of the alternatives but hardly ideal.

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#62 of 80 Old 05-21-2013, 06:58 AM
 
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Of the 5 hard core vegans I closely know, 3 of them are overweight to obese. I know it isn't a large sample but I don't think it's as hard as one would think.  They live all over the US as well. 

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#63 of 80 Old 05-21-2013, 07:57 AM
 
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Some people gain weight with a diet rich in grains, which a vegan diet has to be...

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#64 of 80 Old 05-21-2013, 08:32 AM
 
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But lots of vegans are ethical vegans who don't care about their health and eat lots of vegan junk food.

There is absolutely no requirement for vegans to eat grains at all. Some vegans eat a diet based on starchy veg like potatoes or sweet potatoes with the addition of fruit and veg.

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#65 of 80 Old 05-21-2013, 08:38 AM
 
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Some people gain weight with a diet rich in grains, which a vegan diet has to be...

Well, it doesn't *have* to be. Raw vegan diets rarely contain much in the way of grains, and I've seen paleo-vegans. However, I do know overweight vegans with very carb-based diets who either think that veganism is, in itself, a magic bullet health cure or who are more concerned about the ethical issues than health.


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#66 of 80 Old 05-21-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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fair enough, but without animal products or grains, where would the source of protein be? (depends on how you define grains too i suppose)

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#67 of 80 Old 05-21-2013, 01:02 PM
 
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fair enough, but without animal products or grains, where would the source of protein be? (depends on how you define grains too i suppose)

All whole plant foods contain protein to some extent. If one eats enough calories in fruits and vegetables one will get enough protein. Green vegetables in particular contain quite a high percentage of calories from protein. Obviously nuts and legumes contain protein as well. But it's a complete myth that the only vegan sources of protein are soy, beans, and grains. There is a ton of protein in veggies, especially on a per calorie basis. You just have to eat good-sized portions.

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#68 of 80 Old 05-21-2013, 03:43 PM
 
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All whole plant foods contain protein to some extent. If one eats enough calories in fruits and vegetables one will get enough protein. Green vegetables in particular contain quite a high percentage of calories from protein. Obviously nuts and legumes contain protein as well. But it's a complete myth that the only vegan sources of protein are soy, beans, and grains. There is a ton of protein in veggies, especially on a per calorie basis. You just have to eat good-sized portions.

How large would those portions have to be?
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#69 of 80 Old 05-21-2013, 08:50 PM
 
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How large would those portions have to be?

I think pretty huge. From a quick Googling, it seems that although 100 calories of, say, spinach has as much (or even a little more) protein as 100 calories of beef, eating 100 calories worth of spinach would be pretty tough, considering that 1 cup of spinach has about 7 calories.

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#70 of 80 Old 05-22-2013, 12:20 AM
 
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Well, in a hypothetical grain-free vegan diet, I think the majority of the calories would come from higher calories root veggies like potatoes and sweet potatoes. These do have a fair bit of protein in them as well. But, on a per calorie basis alone, I think green veggies would be the best source of protein. Assuming one eats higher calorie foods like root veg and nuts, then portions in general would have to be large but not ridiculously so.

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#71 of 80 Old 05-22-2013, 06:48 AM
 
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Since I'm the one who brought paleo-vegan into the discussion and that's the only way I can see that people are equating "grain-free" with "no legumes"...

 

Googling around a little, it looks like most grain-free vegans do still eat legumes, and often fermented soy (which is, of course, a legume too). Mushrooms are also high in protein. Pseudograins/seeds like quinoa and amaranth are a gray area in paleo, and high in protein. Things like hempseed and spirulina are standard vegan protein supplement ingredients, and not grains. The general consensus seems to be that, if animal products are avoided, a compromise in pure paleo ideals has to be made in order to get adequate protein. But, as established in this thread, a lot of people following these diets who aren't vegan are also compromising in some way.


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#72 of 80 Old 05-22-2013, 09:26 AM
 
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Regarding weight:
Vegans and vegetarians tend to be 10-20 pounds lighter than nonveg*ns. So...
- that's an average; there are outliers (vegans who are heavier, nonvegan*ns who are lighter)
- if someone starts at 250 pounds and loses 20 pounds by going veg then even at 230 they're still overweight/obese

Regarding protein:
There's protein in all kinds of foods. The largest sources of protein are meat and legumes.
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#73 of 80 Old 05-22-2013, 10:00 AM
 
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Regarding weight:
Vegans and vegetarians tend to be 10-20 pounds lighter than nonveg*ns. So...

 

I'd be curious to see whether this holds true if you only compared the veg*ns to other people following some sort of conscious diet rather than the general population.


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#74 of 80 Old 05-22-2013, 06:22 PM
 
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Regarding weight:
Vegans and vegetarians tend to be 10-20 pounds lighter than nonveg*ns. So...

 

Where was this statistic found?

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#75 of 80 Old 05-22-2013, 08:22 PM
 
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But lots of vegans are ethical vegans who don't care about their health and eat lots of vegan junk food.

There is absolutely no requirement for vegans to eat grains at all. Some vegans eat a diet based on starchy veg like potatoes or sweet potatoes with the addition of fruit and veg.

I've been thinking about this lately, I guess because of this thread.

 

In general I think a vegan diet would be healthier than just a vegetarian one, but my sister recently was telling me she wanted to become a vegan, and wants my help (financially, I believe, but I guess also with moral support and information).  I'm looking around my house and thinking of ideas and things I can tell her, although I am not a vegetarian, but I do try and eat a fairly whole foods diet, except I really do rely on too much bread. Even if it's sprouted grain it's still bread, so I am trying to break my thinking on that, and I decided to eat more vegan meals just to actually include a lot more different foods, because otherwise I get in a rut. I was thinking of food items I eat that I could tell her about, but then I realize that I am equating vegan with whole foods, and she might still eat a more processed diet.  She was saying she wants to get vegan cheese, but I feel like that is fine in small quanitities, but I prefer just to avoid cheese if I'm trying to find good vegan recipes. She wants to avoid factory farming & animal abuse, and can't really afford locally raised eggs or meat, but I think she also wants to lose weight, and thinks this will be the lifestyle change that will do it for her, since calorie restriction was not successful long term.  I don't know what to tell her, but I figure she will figure it out on her own.

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#76 of 80 Old 05-22-2013, 08:30 PM
 
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I don't see why it would be hard to be overweight on a healthy vegan diet.  Now maybe a raw foods vegan diet might be difficult, but I knew someone who gained weight on a raw food vegan diet because she ate a lot of avocados. I think if you are an overweight adult, and you've been overweight most of your life, making sure your diet is really healthy isn't going to make you not fat.  You might lose some weight, but it's not like someone is going to drop a hundred pounds just because she eats whole foods & avoids animal products. There might be weight loss at first if you restrict enough food that you are naturally consuming far fewer calories, but eventually you will figure out what you can eat, and eat to your natural hunger.

This depends on how you define healthy, though, doesn't it? I would hardly say that a diet containing lots of avocados was healthy. It's better than a lot of the alternatives but hardly ideal.

 

If you define a healthy diet as one that makes you thin, then any point I would make is moot. I believe you can eat a healthy diet and still be fat.

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#77 of 80 Old 05-22-2013, 10:19 PM
 
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#78 of 80 Old 05-22-2013, 11:28 PM
 
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I've been thinking about this lately, I guess because of this thread.

In general I think a vegan diet would be healthier than just a vegetarian one, but my sister recently was telling me she wanted to become a vegan, and wants my help (financially, I believe, but I guess also with moral support and information).  I'm looking around my house and thinking of ideas and things I can tell her, although I am not a vegetarian, but I do try and eat a fairly whole foods diet, except I really do rely on too much bread. Even if it's sprouted grain it's still bread, so I am trying to break my thinking on that, and I decided to eat more vegan meals just to actually include a lot more different foods, because otherwise I get in a rut. I was thinking of food items I eat that I could tell her about, but then I realize that I am equating vegan with whole foods, and she might still eat a more processed diet.  She was saying she wants to get vegan cheese, but I feel like that is fine in small quanitities, but I prefer just to avoid cheese if I'm trying to find good vegan recipes. She wants to avoid factory farming & animal abuse, and can't really afford locally raised eggs or meat, but I think she also wants to lose weight, and thinks this will be the lifestyle change that will do it for her, since calorie restriction was not successful long term.  I don't know what to tell her, but I figure she will figure it out on her own.

If her choices are voluntary, it does not have to be all or nothing. She can include two or three meals a week with local, organic meat or eggs. If she is going to eat vegan, she needs to get B-12 in her diet, somehow. If she is trying to lose weight, 100% concord grape juice has been shown to aid weight loss. Drink 8 oz per day.
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#79 of 80 Old 05-23-2013, 04:29 AM
 
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I've been thinking about this lately, I guess because of this thread.

 

In general I think a vegan diet would be healthier than just a vegetarian one, but my sister recently was telling me she wanted to become a vegan, and wants my help (financially, I believe, but I guess also with moral support and information).  I'm looking around my house and thinking of ideas and things I can tell her, although I am not a vegetarian, but I do try and eat a fairly whole foods diet, except I really do rely on too much bread. Even if it's sprouted grain it's still bread, so I am trying to break my thinking on that, and I decided to eat more vegan meals just to actually include a lot more different foods, because otherwise I get in a rut. I was thinking of food items I eat that I could tell her about, but then I realize that I am equating vegan with whole foods, and she might still eat a more processed diet.  She was saying she wants to get vegan cheese, but I feel like that is fine in small quanitities, but I prefer just to avoid cheese if I'm trying to find good vegan recipes. She wants to avoid factory farming & animal abuse, and can't really afford locally raised eggs or meat, but I think she also wants to lose weight, and thinks this will be the lifestyle change that will do it for her, since calorie restriction was not successful long term.  I don't know what to tell her, but I figure she will figure it out on her own.

If she is looking for a healthy vegan diet that will help her attain and maintain a healthy weight then she might be interested in the McDougall Plan (http://www.drmcdougall.com/free.html) or Dr. Fuhrman's Eat to Live plan (http://www.drfuhrman.com/). There is also the 21 Day Vegan Kickstart from the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine, which is quite healthy but maybe a bit less strict. These are all good starting points for information about the health-promoting aspects of a vegan diet and there is lots of information about what to eat and healthy recipes. 

 

 

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If you define a healthy diet as one that makes you thin, then any point I would make is moot. I believe you can eat a healthy diet and still be fat.

 

Well...I don't think being fat is health-promoting, but it is certainly possible to eat a healthy diet and be fat. I would say that such a person should consider reducing the calorie density of his/her diet to lose weight, though. I would never say that a healthy diet is one that makes you thin, but I think I would say that an individual person's ideal diet should make him/her thin eventually (and it should also do a bunch of other things like promote health, contain adequate macro- and micronutrients, etc.; it should do more than make one thin)--weight loss does slow down once one gets closer to a healthy weight. 


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#80 of 80 Old 05-25-2013, 08:38 PM
 
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I would have made a bean salad, or some sort of vegan dip and chips and called it a day! No need to spend that kind of money on specialty food items. Next time they come, I'd still provide a vegan dish bit make it something everyone will like and if they eat it or not, big deal!

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