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#31 of 60 Old 02-17-2014, 05:28 PM
 
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I remember thinking that Hermione would be restoring the memories to her parents. I don't normally jump to conclusions like that - I think I may re-read that book, and see if there's anything that made me do so. I think I recall something to the effect that her parents "may" (or might or whatever) never remember her, and thinking that would only apply if she died and was unable to reverse the spell.


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#32 of 60 Old 02-17-2014, 05:40 PM
 
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If the spell was reversible, don't you think Gilderoy Lockhart would have had it done at St. Mungo's?  Oh, well, piddle.  Groups of magical teenagers are always finding ways to accomplish that which has never been done.  I'm sure if someone's life had been a stake, Harry or Hermione would have found a way to reverse Lockhart's condition.


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#33 of 60 Old 02-17-2014, 05:46 PM
 
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If the spell was reversible, don't you think Gilderoy Lockhart would have had it done at St. Mungo's?  Oh, well, piddle.  Groups of magical teenagers are always finding ways to accomplish that which has never been done.  I'm sure if someone's life had been a stake, Harry or Hermione would have found a way to reverse Lockhart's condition.

 

I find Rowling to be very inconsistent in the way she applies spells, so I don't really know. But, didn't Lockhart get zapped by using Ron's broken wand? Rowling made a point of the fact that wand lore is a whole complicated branch of magic, all on its own. Maybe Lockhart's problems stem from being hit by a broken wand...or even by the fact that he cast the spell on himself. Maybe it can only be undone by the caster?

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#34 of 60 Old 02-17-2014, 06:16 PM
 
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Or maybe no one wanted the old Lockhart back....

 

yes, JKR was very inconsistent.  I was a bit confused by the No Magic At Home rule.  Clearly Hermione at least, who even bragged about trying spells out at home, were breaking that on several occasions, yet Harry was instantly reprimanded when Dobby worked his mischief at the Dursleys.  And how did Charlie fly into Hogwart's so secretly on his dragon?  Maybe Dumbledore knew.  Probably knew.

 

Well, at least we have this rich universe where we can debate the finer points, like Draco's redmption: likely or not?  And Hermione: forever separated from her parents?  Or not?


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#35 of 60 Old 02-17-2014, 06:16 PM
 
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Yeah, I think Lockhart's case was unusual. 

 

Plus, if Hermione hadn't been planning to see her parents again, I think she'd have been a little more messed up about it. I mean, I know the books don't delve into her relationship with her parents much at all, but you'd think her being permanently alone and parentless forever would at least come up. Some line about how Harry and Hermione had both lost their parents now, or whatever.


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#36 of 60 Old 02-18-2014, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Draco's redemption: likely or not?  Hmm. Redemption is to 'compensate for the faults or bad aspects of something'.  He was full of faults, for sure.  He chose not to turn Harry over to Bellatrix.  That was pivotal.  It would have been game over for Harry if Draco turned him over.


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#37 of 60 Old 02-18-2014, 01:57 PM
 
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Yay - just found this thread and love reading everyone's take on it!

 

I actually felt kind of relieved reading Rowling's comment, because I'm one of the people who never saw the Ron/Hermione pairing as plausible, and always felt it was a case of JKR trying to tidy up loose ends. So I like feeling validated on the idea that it was a mistake of JKR's that she regrets, even if it isn't for the reason I thought. (Interesting comment about it being for personal reasons - I'm guessing that means she saw herself as Hermione and had a secret crush on a Ron type?)

 

So... who else could those two have ended up with? Well, at one point in Book 6 I thought JKR was actually setting up for a Ron/Luna pairing, and I still think that would have been possible. Better than Ron/Hermione, anyway. I had to think harder about options for Hermione, and then it hit me... Percy! Since he finally stopped being such a pompous prat and started doing the right thing, I can see him being very much Hermione's type in other ways. Also, it would be cool that she would still end up part of the Weasley family (which I agree was a wonderful bonus for Harry of the Harry/Ginny pairing, although I definitely agree with that one in other ways as well - oh, and I also agree that the films failed horribly to do Ginny justice. She was a total kick*ss character in the books from Book 5 onwards.)

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#38 of 60 Old 02-18-2014, 10:38 PM
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 I had to think harder about options for Hermione, and then it hit me... Percy! Since he finally stopped being such a pompous prat and started doing the right thing, I can see him being very much Hermione's type in other ways. Also, it would be cool that she would still end up part of the Weasley family (which I agree was a wonderful bonus for Harry of the Harry/Ginny pairing, although I definitely agree with that one in other ways as well - oh, and I also agree that the films failed horribly to do Ginny justice. She was a total kick*ss character in the books from Book 5 onwards.)

I just can't see Hermione and Percy doing well with each other.  Two type-A personalities. . . yuck!  They need someone to lighten things up.  :-)


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#39 of 60 Old 02-19-2014, 01:47 AM
 
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I just can't see Hermione and Percy doing well with each other.  Two type-A personalities. . . yuck!  They need someone to lighten things up.  :-)

 

Well, I feel sorry for their children. :) From their point of view, though, I think they'd be happy with each other. Yeah, it would all be really intense and serious and intellectual, but they'd both enjoy that, even though it might look dull to others. (And they'd see the rest of the Weasleys, and Harry, a lot, so that would help keep things lighter in their lives.)

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#40 of 60 Old 02-19-2014, 07:56 AM
 
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I'm decided that Hermione, if she didn't wind up with Ron, managed to meet some former Ravenclaw from a class 10 years her senior, one we've never met in the stories.  They would meet at work when Hermione was 30, after pursuing her career for several years.  She didn't have children until she was 36 or 37, but both made excellent, loving parents.  He would have a large, not so old wizarding family, good friends with the Weasleys and supporters of Harry and Dumbledore.

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#41 of 60 Old 02-19-2014, 11:47 AM
 
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Well, I'm glad to hear even J.K. Rowling realized she messed up on that relationship. They simply were not equals in any way - just two people who happen to have been friends due to a common friend {Harry}. Marriages based on that, IMO never work well. They tend to fall about in 10-15 years when both parties simply realize they are better off just friends.

 

Honestly, this will probably get me flamed, but I always saw Hermione with either A. Professor Snape, who was her intellectual match & had far more in common with her that either Harry or Ron, or B. Draco Malfoy after he got over the misadventures of his youth & realized that his parents views didn't have to be his own. Again - her intellectual match, and far more in common. Besides - everyone knows that the little boy who gives you h*ll all the time often does it because he likes you. Otherwise he'd just ignore you.


I can see the last sentence applying to Ron, but not to Draco. Draco didn't like Hermione - he despised her.

 

I can see the intellectual equal angle, but I think Hermione would have been beyond miserable with either of those guys, because they're too cold. Hermione was very smart, and very studious, but she wasn't cold.

 

I never got the feeling Ron and Hermione were only friends because of Harry. I think the whole "little boy who gives you hell" - although I don't call 11 a "little boy" - thing applied to them from the very first book, and there was always chemistry (not really sexual chemistry at first, but chemistry, nonetheless). The way Rowling originally wrote the books, I think they'd have ended up dating sooner, not later, if they hadn't both been Harry's friends. But, then I figured Ron would end up with Hermione and Harry would end up with Ginny right from the beginning. I thought so after the first book, and was sure of it by PoA.


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#42 of 60 Old 02-19-2014, 11:54 AM
 
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Why do so many people think Hermione should have ended up with someone irritating (or just plain mean), just because she's smart?


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#43 of 60 Old 02-19-2014, 03:00 PM
 
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Why do so many people think Hermione should have ended up with someone irritating (or just plain mean), just because she's smart?

 

Don't know whether that was meant to include my suggested Hermione/Percy pairing, but my thought was that the things about Percy that irritated everyone else would actually have been fine with Hermione, because she would have been happy taking the minutiae of life as seriously as he did.

 

I agree Hermione/Draco isn't something I can see at all. I don't even agree that he ended up redeeming himself; he thought twice about going along with the worst of the things the Death Eaters did, and couldn't ultimately bring himself to be a Death Eater, but I do get the impression that his basic prejudices against Mudbloods were still there. Other than that, I can't even see anything to be attracted to, because he's a pretty two-dimensional character in the books (even more so in the films, to the point where I felt sorry for the actor who had to play him!) I can't even think of anything to indicate that he was particularly smart. He did well in Potions classes, but Snape was so blatantly biased that that doesn't really mean much.

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#44 of 60 Old 02-19-2014, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I totally thought Hermione and Percy would work, with some growth on Percy's part. 


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#45 of 60 Old 02-19-2014, 11:38 PM
 
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Yeah, I don't remember Draco being smart either. He was meant to be smart? 

 

I have to say, I don't like the thought of Hermione ending up with Draco, Percy or (ew) Snape. She was difficult, but ultimately she was nice. And she valued niceness. 

 

The Snape thing is just... what? Never mind that he was, what, at least 20 years her senior. He spent most of his life in love with her best friend's mother! 

 

"After all this time?"

"Always. Actually, wait - that seventeen-year-old student I've been mentally torturing for years is pretty hot. Maybe when she comes back next year to finish out her schooling I can make a move. Those pesky protective friends of hers are going off to be Aurors, so they won't be around to remind her how consistently sadistic I've been over the past seven years. I guess she might harbor some resentment towards me for being brutal to Harry, but it's OK - I can explain it was just because I resented him because I was in love with his dead mother. That'll make me seem smouldering and complex, right?"

 

Yeah... no. I'm sure 'smart' would have been on Hermione's ideal-husband list, but I highly doubt it would have outweighed 'lank, greasy hair', 'enjoyment of the pain of minors', 'viciously punitive'... Snape was damaged goods in every way possible. Dumping him on a brave, smart, self-sacrificing social warrior like Hermione is tremendously unfair to her. I mean, I said earlier that Ron didn't have much going for him, but apparently I forgot to put 'didn't torture children' on his pros list! Criminy.

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#46 of 60 Old 02-20-2014, 06:10 PM
 
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I think Draco was conniving, but that doesn't necessarily mean smart. He was clever with the whatchamacallit booths between the Room of Requirement and the shop (dang, where is my brain) you know what I'm trying to say. But that's the only time I remember ever seeing him figure something out. Most of the rest of the time he was trying to cheat or weasel his way through Hogwarts.

 

Ron was smart at wizard chess, and loyal. I think there probably would have been a consideration of a pairing up of Harry and Hermione in real Hogwarts life. It's rare that it doesn't even cross the minds of "good friends". I think there would have been more tension in the friendship of the three of them (I was going to say threesome, but that just sounded weird) and then maybe Hermione would have ended up with Harry or maybe she would have ended up with Ron. There would have been some more friction between Harry and Ron and a little extra weirdness to get over.


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#47 of 60 Old 02-21-2014, 08:06 AM
 
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Vanishing cabinets and Bourgin and Burke's.

 

All his conversation about Hermione has me ready to contemplate the possibility that Ron and Harry's friendship might have evolved into something a bit more....... hmmmm....... 


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#48 of 60 Old 02-21-2014, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ah, well. Hogwarts IS a boarding school.  Young people holed up in same-sex dorms during long Scottish winters might be inclined to experiment.  But I imagine JKRowling wanted Harry to father a child so she could inflict the name Albus Severus Potter on some young innocent.


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#49 of 60 Old 02-21-2014, 01:15 PM
 
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:laughEgg donations, a willing friend (Hermione?)  Same-sex couples can get around that.....  


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#50 of 60 Old 02-22-2014, 04:46 AM
 
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I never really considered Ron to be dumb.  He's not.  He only seem less smart in comparison to his best friends.  It seems all the Weasleys are incredibly good at magic and each had special talents.  It's stated clearly that Ron's grades are about as good as Harry's (their OWL results).  The characters obviously don't interact with those with ordinary intelligence or so-so magic skills very much in the books.  Considering all those people in magical world there are probably loads of them no more magical or brilliant than Stan Shunpike. :) Didn't Ron fool 3 or 4 snatchers and escape from them with one of their wands?  I can certainly imagine him becoming a lot more skilled and resourceful once he matured.  Some kids do mature very late, especially boys.

 

*But then this is fiction.  It doesn't have to be believable in every way.  Everybody thinks it's too convenient that all the bad guys are incredibly stupid, but how else would the hero win? :)


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#51 of 60 Old 02-22-2014, 05:53 AM
 
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Vanishing cabinets and Bourgin and Burke's.

 

Yes! thanks for helping me out with my brain fart!

 

Ron and Harry...hmmm...better than those Harry and Draco pairings. I do like Tom Felton, but I don't think the character of Draco has enough redeeming character traits to really overcome his yuckiness in my mind. He'll still always be a little bit slimy and stuck up even if he didn't quite end up on the wrong side of things. 


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#52 of 60 Old 02-28-2014, 08:18 AM
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I know this conversation has run its course, but I decided that the books/movies were getting mixed up in my head.  So, I started reading book 7 again.  Hermione only modifies her parents' memories.  She states that she plans to reverse it if she makes it though everything.  Also, after the wedding at the muggle diner, Hermione states that she has never "wiped a memory" before; she does so (using the spell that the movie shows her use on her parents) in the diner on some death eaters.  

 

I just had to tell someone.  

 

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#53 of 60 Old 02-28-2014, 08:25 AM
 
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I recently reread the book, and I know that she tells Harry and Ron what she did in the book but I can't remember when that occurs, BUT -

 

I'm fairly certain that, in the movie, she hadn't told Harry and Ron about her measures to protect her parents. I'm not sure that she ever does, on-screen. To me, a plausible explanation is that she wanted to keep it to herself because it really was very personal and very sad for her.


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#54 of 60 Old 03-04-2014, 07:31 PM
 
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I never liked Hermione/Ron maybe because I identified with Hermione and never saw myself with Ron.  I thought Hermione/Neville would work well.  I did not have a problem with harry/ginny, but I saw it coming.  In all honesty, I could never see hermione getting over Draco's treatment of her at school in order to have a relationship with him.


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#55 of 60 Old 03-10-2014, 02:06 PM
 
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Ok, my girls are watching the Star Wars series.  I totally see how the Ron/Hermione thing is *supposed* to play out.  Who ever doubted the probability of Han and Leia's relationship?  Of course, Luke is her brother (if you have been living under a rock for the last 30-odd years, I sincerely apologize for the spoiler) but still.  Han and Leia have tension but camaraderie, and then we get the romantic punchline in the 2nd movie.  And we know what a great person Han is, under that roguishly selfish exterior.  Ron was never given such an amazing chance.  He was given loyalty, yes, but not enough time was spent on developing his character.  I can totally believe in Ron and Hermione, but I admit that I'm filling in a lot of blanks--times when Ron and Hermione were together that weren't elaborated on, like their first trip to Hogsmeade.

 

I know this conversation has pretty well played out, but since I'm just watching ESB today I wanted to share my thoughts.


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#56 of 60 Old 03-10-2014, 04:32 PM
 
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I think the pairings of ron/hermione  harry/ginny make sense in a kid lit kind of way. harry wanted family. Hermione wanted magic. They were all three friends. Now they are related!

 

If we want to complain about something, it's in the poor writing of Ron's character and growth. SweetSilver is right-- the Han/Leia comparison is apt, but Ron was never given the chance to be really awesome, because the books were always about Harry. If they had been written from more than one point of view (Think game of thrones style), there would have been more opportunites for more characters to shine. Really, all of the kids except harry and hermione are shown with goofy issues. Again, I see it as a side effect of being kid lit. Good kid lit, but still made for younger audiences. 

 

My biggest beef with the whole series is the insistence that tonks and lupin's kid needed to be an orphan. Had to repeat that, didn't we? But harry's the godparent, so it's all ok.(sarcasm)

Ok, there's a bit more: I think the series would have been profoundly better if Draco's transformation was sooner. He should have come to the light side (sorry for crossing the streams) much sooner. He needed a come to jesus moment before Dumbledore's death. 


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#57 of 60 Old 03-10-2014, 06:44 PM
 
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I love this thread! So many wonderful points of view.

 

I think Harry and Ginny together is alright. Ginny is strong and smart and has a great sense of humor, and him becoming part of the family for real is nice. I never saw Harry with Hermonie.

I feel like this is a good representation of why they work alright.

 

I didn't buy Ron/Hermonie, but I don't really see Hermonie with anyone. Same with Ron. I just don't think the books were about that, you know? And I also feel like maybe JK is just really bad at writing romantic relationships. Although, of course, I love Molly and Arthur. Remember Harry's weird dragon/monster/beast that rose up when he saw Ginny kissing Dean? I think that was the weirdest part of the whole series. I really disliked Bill/Fluer and Tonks/Lupin together, too. Both felt weird and awkward and not real. I never got the feeling Lupin actually loved Tonks, and it bugged the crap out of me that she left her baby to rush to his side. Her love for him seemed over the top unhealthy, just like Snape's obsession with Lily, which didn't sit well with me either. I don't see it as romantic to be obsessed with someone for over a decade. Has anyone read her other book? Was there a convincing romance in that?

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#58 of 60 Old 03-10-2014, 07:23 PM
 
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Again, I see it as a side effect of being kid lit. Good kid lit, but still made for younger audiences. 

 

Oh, man, way to burst my bubble.  HP was written for KIDS???  Why didn't anyone tell me????? :p


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#59 of 60 Old 03-10-2014, 07:26 PM
 
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She's written two non HP books that I know about and I read them both, The Casual Vacancy and The Cuckoo's Calling under the pseudonym Robert Galbraith which was busted wide open. Neither has a heavy romance in it, but there is some romantic tension, moreso in The Cuckoo's Calling, IIRC.


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#60 of 60 Old 03-10-2014, 07:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Pajama View Post
 

 If they had been written from more than one point of view (Think game of thrones style), there would have been more opportunites for more characters to shine.

Alright, I knew it was kid lit.  In fact, it wasn't until I started reading GOT recently that I realized that I've been immersed in too much of it.  I was a bit shocked and disoriented at all the SEX in the books.  I have to admit, it took some adjustment.

 

mareseatoats, I like the sketch.  It perfectly "illustrates" what was lost when they wrote the script.


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